The X Factor

[ketostix]

Keto, if I'm reading you correctly, you are talking about self-improvement. That is a good thing, we all can improve in one aspect of our lives. Ketostix, you are talking about charisma, right?

What I've found, is that a lot of people speak in a monotone manner. They don't emphasis certain key words, like an actor does perhaps.

I used to be this way. I couldn't tell a story and keep it interesting for the life of me....and this didn't just affect gaining attraction, and keeping a woman's attention, but also in job interviews, meetings, phonecalls, etc.

I learned, that by stressing certain words, and varying the pitch of my voice, it really made a difference. I was able to keep peoples attention, and maintain it, until I got my message across. Much like acting, or perhaps the X factor.

Yes this is exactly along the lines of what I'm talking about, except you focused more on voice, which is a very important part of it, while I focused on the facial expressions, maybe an even more important element. You made another key point. This isn't just about attracting women, this is about getting everything in life, for example, career opportunities from both men and women. Think of an actor. They are well liked and well payed if they're good. Anyway you're the only person so far that got what I was getting at. What I'm saying is this is the x-factor and it's key to get this down right or nothing else you do will work or matter. So this is where all the focus needs to be, but we almost put no focus on it. The only question is if you don't naturally have it down how do you do it?

 

[ketostix]

I'm lazy too. Plus I don't like tons of rejection and I hate chasing after a girl, it bloats their egos. It seems so much easier when there is just instant chemistry there from the start. I may get less lays, but it's usually of a better quality when that attraction clicks on both sides.

Well if you're clicking with girls and closing them then you have the necessary baseline of x-factors and maybe naturally and this thread isn't really for you. However, that's not to say being more expressive and active wouldn't get you more and higher quality girls.

 

[ketostix]

I'll bite....

It's really X Factors.

These are subjects addressed by the field of "social psychology" and have been the subject of many research studies.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpersonal_attraction for a primer.

A follow up to this is Attachment Theory applied to adults. (Grounded in attachment theory in infants as developed by the researcher John Bowlby, Mr. Attachment Theory)

See here for a primer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_in_adults

If you read these you will see the research basis for much of the community's tactics and techniques.

Google for some additional sources.....

Ok thanks, I'll have to read those. I get a feeling that my point is getting taken beyond it's focus though. But the point that attraction has a reason rooted in psychology and is fairly constant and not some random thing without a cause is one of my points.

 

[ketostix]

Very interesting comment Thunder. I've heard this from some of my male friends as well. Some of them refuse to invest in a girl unless she is MORE into him than he is in her. I know you are talking about the initial approach... But how much of this thinking carries over into the rest of it?

Well I was talking about the very first approach and initial contact. the attraction has to be there quickly or it never materialize. I think there's an error in the quoted paragraph, women don't alway show IOI to every guy they'd be attracted to in a room, and just because a woman is initial attracted you have to interact with her successfully and you can still "crash and burn". although I'll admit that waiting on signals from a female before pursuing her is more efficent, I still say the reason a lot times she is attracted is still because of the x-factor. She noticed your x factor while you were interacting with others.

And ketostix, I think attraction has a lot to do with pheromones and familiarity than symmetry and facial expressions.

I don't believe in pheromones. This has never been proven and could easily be bottled and sold if it were true. I'm more of the persuasion that attraction is mostly caused by visual cues (not the same thing as looks) and to a lesser extent auditory how you sound when you speak. As long as you're clean, I don't think smell or even some odorless molecule is much of a factor.

 

[Jitterbug]

Alright, talking about voice/tonality & facial expressions, watch some old school Hollywood movies (1960s & earlier) with classic suave actors. I notice this in particular about their talking, as I'm a swing dancer: they talk in rhythm. You can dance to their talking. Their voices have a musical quality. That's why they sound so smooth & seductive. It's a lot more enjoyable listening to something musical and rhythmical than someone talking like a kid slamming fingers on piano. Singing & mimicing their voices would probably help there. I've been doing some practice with Senor Finger's Empowering Your Voice & singing (& scat-singing) to old jazz/blues tracks.

 

[ketostix]

The guy I just most recently had ONEitis for did not have great "facial expressions" or "congruency". As a matter of fact, I am using that as my main arsenal to conquer the oneitis. "He isn't even that cute!!!"

That is my only real defense, as everything else about him is great. Hence the attraction, and oneitis. I am telling you, it isn't looks! Sure that HELPS SOME, but it definately won't hold you back if you have other areas down. Like your mind, your soul, and your life.

OK your oneitis was expressive, this can't not be overlooked. It's not about looks as most people understand it. I'm saying that attraction happens mostly through cues picked up through the observer's visual pathway. "Your mind and soul" is mostly conveyed to the other person visually and to a lesser extent auditorially. I'm just reducing the most fundamental thing as being facial expressiveness. You can have everything else in your life together but if you don't have good facial expressions and some level of facial symmetry nothing else will matter much.

 

[ketostix]

Alright, talking about voice/tonality & facial expressions, watch some old school Hollywood movies (1960s & earlier) with classic suave actors. I notice this in particular about their talking, as I'm a swing dancer: they talk in rhythm. You can dance to their talking. Their voices have a musical quality. That's why they sound so smooth & seductive. It's a lot more enjoyable listening to something musical and rhythmical than someone talking like a kid slamming fingers on piano. Singing & mimicing their voices would probably help there. I've been doing some practice with Senor Finger's Empowering Your Voice & singing (& scat-singing) to old jazz/blues tracks.

This is exactly what I'm getting at. Excellent analogy it's like music, for some reason music's mathematically based rhythm and order is attractive to people. I think the same principle applies to facial expressions and mannerisms. I think if you are subpar in those two areas what ever the reason is, it's very attraction killing to most women. It's like a huge indicator that you have subpar nueral wiring or genes or some such, even if that's not really the case. For whatever reason some men can be basically goodlooking and intelligent but deficient in these x-factor areas and none of their other qualities matter to women. The only question is if you aren't naturally smooth can you become smooth and how do it you do it? Your suggesting for using "Empowering Your Voice & Singing" material is a step in the right direction I think. There's just not enough material or focus on the x factors or a realization that it even is important. I think it's of utmost importance probably.

 

[Jitterbug]

The only question is if you aren't naturally smooth can you become smooth and how do it you do it?

I'm not yet smooth but I think it's possible. My current voice/tonality is quite different from what it was last year. I was first informed so by my own parents. Some of my female friends I haven't met for a while told me while on the phone that my voice has changed a lot and they could hardly recognize me. They all like my new voice. I've only been training in voice materials similar to "Empowering Your Voice" and scat-singing (this was just for my dancing initially) for that long.

I've done something similar before to improve my accent & pronunciation since English isn't my first language & I do presentations & public speaking semi-regularly.

I'm convinced and I'm proof that it's possible to improve your voice.

I'm not quite with you (not yet anyway) on it being the X-factor, but I find it true that having a smooth voice really helps.

My uncle is a natural who could pull regularly even when he was living in a very conservative country (premarital sex meant end-of-life pretty much for the women). He now lives with 2 Polish sisters (both girl-next-door HB7). He isn't married, has two kids with one, screws both sisters and all the in-laws love him (I have no idea how the hell he pulled it off). He's a short (5'4") stocky Asian guy, unimpressive in most regards, average businessman. He's a very smooth talker though. That really stood out about him and has helped him heaps in his love life, friendship & business as the man has a habit of digging holes for himself then talks his way out of them. I remember as a kid listening to his BSing. They were crap, but we (kids & adults) couldn't help but listen to what he had to say, as he told them so well.

I have another uncle who's similar to that one - another natural & smooth talker & pull chicks around the planet. However, he's tall, handsome (in his days) & an actor/director, so the smooth talking part doesn't really stand out. He's a very good story teller & has a great voice.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Hm. On one hand I think maybe you're analyzing this waaay too much.


On the other hand I'm thinking back to the times I've actually vibed with a girl and we were both feeling it. I seemed expressive. Colorful. Vibrant.

....I'm thinking of another time where I wasn't ANY of those things and I got the girl. My mood was mellow. Calm. Almost lazy. I didn't do anything with my voice.

I was very attracted to her. She gave me her number. She was the best sex I ever had. hahaha

I dunno anymore, man.

 

[ketostix]

I'm not yet smooth but I think it's possible. My current voice/tonality is quite different from what it was last year. I was first informed so by my own parents. Some of my female friends I haven't met for a while told me while on the phone that my voice has changed a lot and they could hardly recognize me. They all like my new voice. I've only been training in voice materials similar to "Empowering Your Voice" and scat-singing (this was just for my dancing initially) for that long.

I've done something similar before to improve my accent & pronunciation since English isn't my first language & I do presentations & public speaking semi-regularly.

I'm convinced and I'm proof that it's possible to improve your voice.

I'm not quite with you (not yet anyway) on it being the X-factor, but I find it true that having a smooth voice really helps.

Wel I think if you're not naturally smooth than it's hard to even know when the changes you make are really making an improvement. But what you're discussing is part of exactly what I'm getting at.

My uncle is a natural who could pull regularly even when he was living in a very conservative country (premarital sex meant end-of-life pretty much for the women). He now lives with 2 Polish sisters (both girl-next-door HB7). He isn't married, has two kids with one, screws both sisters and all the in-laws love him (I have no idea how the hell he pulled it off). He's a short (5'4") stocky Asian guy, unimpressive in most regards, average businessman. He's a very smooth talker though. That really stood out about him and has helped him heaps in his love life, friendship & business as the man has a habit of digging holes for himself then talks his way out of them. I remember as a kid listening to his BSing. They were crap, but we (kids & adults) couldn't help but listen to what he had to say, as he told them so well.

This is a perfect example of someone that seemingly has nothing going for them but the fact that they're a smooth , interesting talker attracts so many women. This what I meant by there being an x-factor.

I have another uncle who's similar to that one - another natural & smooth talker & pull chicks around the planet. However, he's tall, handsome (in his days) & an actor/director, so the smooth talking part doesn't really stand out. He's a very good story teller & has a great voice.

Right, being tall and handsome is a bonus and like the icing on the cake, just like game tactics are, but I'd say the foundation and the necessity is being smooth. If he looked the same but wasn't smooth his good looks wouldn't make much difference, maybe it would make up for lacking in smoothness or the x-factor somewhat but it wouldn't totally make up for it. And like your other uncle demostrates good looks and height aren't necessary.

 

[ketostix]

Hm. On one hand I think maybe you're analyzing this waaay too much.

I'm analyzing it only because i think it's an important concept.

On the other hand I'm thinking back to the times I've actually vibed with a girl and we were both feeling it. I seemed expressive. Colorful. Vibrant.

....I'm thinking of another time where I wasn't ANY of those things and I got the girl. My mood was mellow. Calm. Almost lazy. I didn't do anything with my voice.

I was very attracted to her. She gave me her number. She was the best sex I ever had. hahaha

I dunno anymore, man.

I'm not saying you have to or should throw your voice delivery. I'm saying either your voice delivery and facial expression cause attraction or they don't. You're suggesting that there might not be a correlation because one time you were relaxed and had a great experience attracting a girl. The thing is I'm not saying you have to be an upbeat entertainment monkey. I'm saying you actually want to seem calm and relaxed. That causes the perception of confidence. What I'm saying is your expression and mannerism should seem relaxed and confident and/or upbeat, postive and happy. But remember that other girl was just one example. I fully admit anything can happen sometimes. What I'm concerned with is what happens most of the time.

 

[Jitterbug]

Wel I think if you're not naturally smooth than it's hard to even know when the changes you make are really making an improvement. But what you're discussing is part of exactly what I'm getting at.

Well what's natural and what's not are a bit different in my case. I come from another culture & used to speak another language. I had a good voice in my mother tongue & when I speak in it, people say I sound like one of those with good voice selected for ethnic radio. However, it didn't (at least initially) translate to my English & the new environment I found myself in. I've always had a good voice. I just had to adjust it for the new language.

Anyway, I was looking to improve the overall package. The voice thing is just a part of it. I simply like to be able to talk smoothly like the actors of the old days. If women dig it, great!

On the other hand I'm thinking back to the times I've actually vibed with a girl and we were both feeling it. I seemed expressive. Colorful. Vibrant.

....I'm thinking of another time where I wasn't ANY of those things and I got the girl. My mood was mellow. Calm. Almost lazy. I didn't do anything with my voice.

Think of it in terms of musicality. There are different kinds of music that people like. Some colourful & vibrant, some calm & mellow. Can't say one is better than the other. It's just different moods, different tastes.

Think of all the top suave male celebrities or powerful alpha males you know and recall their voice/tonality.

I think it's important, although I'm not sure yet if it's the X-factor like ketostix is suggesting. Doesn't hurt to give it a try. It can only improve your game.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Think of it in terms of musicality. There are different kinds of music that people like. Some colourful & vibrant, some calm & mellow. Can't say one is better than the other. It's just different moods, different tastes.

Think of all the top suave male celebrities or powerful alpha males you know and recall their voice/tonality.

Yes. That does make sense. Music brings emotion so you can't be too far off.

 

[edger]

I've always said(as you very well know Keto), that looks don't mean sh*t with women. As much as they say they do, they are full of sh*t, because they always prove otherwise and start f*cking some ugly, or dorkish, or plain "Jane" guy. For the 80 millionth time, women are notorious for saying one thing, then doing the exact opposite. I live in a state, the state of NY which has the hottest women on the planet, and the majority of HOT women I see here, are with below avg. to avg. looking guys. Mostly BELOW avg. looking guys. I'm in NYC every weekend, and I see it ALL THE TIME. I've even gotten to the point where I don't care about how good looking I am anymore. If I suddenly turned ugly tomorrow, it wouldn't matter to me, I couldn't give 2 sh*ts. I'd truthfully rather look ugly or look like a dweeb, because being a good looking guy and "cool" looking is so far overlooked by women, that I practically despise being good-looking and "cool" looking.

Keto, when you refer to facial symmetry as being an ex-factor, are you referring to "looks"?

 

[ketostix]

Well what's natural and what's not are a bit different in my case. I come from another culture & used to speak another language. I had a good voice in my mother tongue & when I speak in it, people say I sound like one of those with good voice selected for ethnic radio. However, it didn't (at least initially) translate to my English & the new environment I found myself in. I've always had a good voice. I just had to adjust it for the new language.

Anyway, I was looking to improve the overall package. The voice thing is just a part of it. I simply like to be able to talk smoothly like the actors of the old days. If women dig it, great!

Speaking in a non-native tongue would be quiet a challenge and somewhat of a handicap to being a smooth talker. Well at least you were smooth in your native tongue. If only you had learned English at a very young age. But it might be possible that a girl will overlook your "accent" or whatever if you have good facial expressions and facial symmetry. My point about voice is if you take two native speakers and one is a "poor" speaker and the other is smooth, for the purposes of attraction the female is going to really nitpick the unsmooth guy. It's kind of analagous to good musician vs. a poor one.

Think of it in terms of musicality. There are different kinds of music that people like. Some colourful & vibrant, some calm & mellow. Can't say one is better than the other. It's just different moods, different tastes.

Think of all the top suave male celebrities or powerful alpha males you know and recall their voice/tonality.

I think it's important, although I'm not sure yet if it's the X-factor like ketostix is suggesting. Doesn't hurt to give it a try. It can only improve your game.

your music analogy is great at explaining the principle I'm making. It's inline with my analogy to an actor for facial expressions and attractive mannerisms.

 

[ketostix]

I've always said(as you very well know Keto), that looks don't mean sh*t with women. As much as they say they do, they are full of sh*t, because they always prove otherwise and start f*cking some ugly, or dorkish, or plain "Jane" guy. For the 80 millionth time, women are notorious for saying one thing, then doing the exact opposite. I live in a state, the state of NY which has the hottest women on the planet, and the majority of HOT women I see here, are with below avg. to avg. looking guys. Mostly BELOW avg. looking guys. I'm in NYC every weekend, and I see it ALL THE TIME. I've even gotten to the point where I don't care about how good looking I am anymore. If I suddenly turned ugly tomorrow, it wouldn't matter to me, I couldn't give 2 sh*ts. I'd truthfully rather look ugly or look like a dweeb, because being a good looking guy and "cool" looking is so far overlooked by women, that I practically despise being good-looking and "cool" looking.

Well here in my thread is an explanation for why what you are seeing might be true. These not so good looking guys are probably smooth and expressive.

Keto, when you refer to facial symmetry as being an ex-factor, are you referring to "looks"?

In a way you could say it's what one single "looks" factor is universally attractive as far as physicalities. But I wouldn't consider looks really. It's not dependent on height, being really fit and a lot of things we consider necessary to be overall goodlooking. If you saw an average build and height guy with a very symmetrical face, I doubt you would think he is good looking.

 

[guru1000]

X factor is Testosterone Level.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Speaking in a non-native tongue would be quiet a challenge and somewhat of a handicap to being a smooth talker.

Having an accent can work wonders though, if you use the accent to your advantage. Keep the accent though! There's nothing hotter than a french gal trying to speak english, IMO...and the same goes for men (depending upon the accent).

 

[Jitterbug]

Speaking in a non-native tongue would be quiet a challenge and somewhat of a handicap to being a smooth talker. Well at least you were smooth in your native tongue. If only you had learned English at a very young age. But it might be possible that a girl will overlook your "accent" or whatever if you have good facial expressions and facial symmetry.

I currently have a light natural Aussie accent, can do a decent British accent (watched too many British comedies), can do a little French accent (used to have a French housemate and picked up his accent) and some American accent (NYC - I hang out with some New Yorkers down here). It's not a problem for me now. My goal is to improve my French & learn some Spanish so I can do more accents.

 

[swifTy]

I'd say the X factor is a whole bunch of things. the X factor is the whole package. when a girl looks at you (or a guy for that matter) she sums you up and that judgement is your X factor.

everything comes into play. how your voice sounds, your skeltal structures, your face and its expressions, how intelligent you are --> which equates to how interesting you are and how well you can act and think of funny things to say. keto, smell definately counts!! trust me.
its also the way you walk.

its how you present yourself. its how you come across. its the person that you are being. its the IMAGE that you are selling. its the IDENTITY that you are selling. the X factor is all of those things wrapped up. the better that you are at presenting; presenting your image, presenting your identity, the better of you'll do. and to pull it all off you need confidence. if i had to narrow it down i would say what sells you is your IMAGE and your IDENTITY. and thats kind of where personal choice/tastes come in. some girl might be lookin for a certain image/identity and the first guy that shows up and pulls it off confidently will attract her. an e.g. could be the ugly guy but with confidence and balls. aka the hyper masculine man.

i guess it is all about style. finding a style that you are comfortable with and are happy to act out your whole life and stick to it and do it well!

i also think some IMAGE/IDENTITY combinations are better than others and can transcend personal tastes. i think it comes back to how good you are at presenting yourself. how powerful you are. how much presence you have. i know when i enter a room i can take over if i want. ive never met anyone yet who can OUTperform me. If i had to say 3 things why, i would say its my intelligence, good looks, and confidence. if you put those 3 things and you channel it into an IMAGE/IDENTITY combination and you do it well you'll be attractive and you'll have that X factor.