The ULTIMATE sh!t test

[STR8UP]

When a woman is vying for control/power in a relationship, it's the ULTIMATE sh!t test.

This is why I am adamant about the idea that it is imperative to establish proper gender roles early on in a relationship (from the very beginning) and to MAINTAIN those roles throughout, in order to have a happy, functional relationship.

A western woman (and probably women everywhere to an extent) will always try to challenge your role as the dominant figure. How you react to this ultimately determines the outcome of your relationship.

If you are weak and bend, she will resent you and drop your ass like a hot potato.

If you are strong and continue to assert your role as the dominant figure, she will respect you, and her attraction will likely remain.

I strongly believe that this is the root of the majority of the problems that face relationships these days.

I have mentioned several times that it's too easy to become complacent in a relationship and allow the woman to press the boundaries which ultimately give her more control. As Rollo has said, the absence of power creates a vacuum. Left open, that void will be filled by the woman who will resent the fact that is left to run the show.

This is the single most important factor in maintaining a relationship! You MUST be on point. You CANNOT let your guard down if you wish for your relationship to endure. It really sucks, cause I know that I for one want to RELAX when I am in a relationship. But that is ultimately what leads to its downfall. You can't just kick back and let the chips fall where they may. You HAVE to fend off her advances just as you would the advances of an enemy on the battlefield. Or a coworker who is trying to get your job.

It's a dog eat dog world, and a romantic relationship is no different than any other relationship, except that it's very easy to think of it in terms of a safety zone, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. She is an opposing force. You can work TOGETHER to achieve a common goal, but she will always be the "enemy" in that she is human and it is in her nature to be selfish, as it is with ANY human.

So whether it's the influence of feminism, your own complacency, or an ACTIVE attempt to push the boundaries to see how you react, the struggle for power is the ultimate sh!t test, because the way you react is a make it or break it situation; it will decide the fate of your relationship.

 

[bigjohnson]

You know what I think Jenny.

 

[Interceptor]

Sh*t tests aren't all that important when you know what you want in a woman, and in an LTR.
Plus, when you have strong personal boundaries.

In addition, if one has the power to recognioze a good woman from a bad one, one can decide wether to further emotionally invest in her.
No reason to emotionally invest in a bad woman, so no need to have to endure or pass any sh*t test from her.
A good woman will enhance your life.
A bad woman will drain from it.
Bascially, the less emotional investment the less you care about her sh*t test anyway.
The power to walk away from a ptentially bad relationship is a REAL POWER.
If you have scarcity thinking then this will be harder for one to do.
Better single and happy, than involved with someone who makes you miserable.

This is why it's so important ot be Non Outcome Dependent in any early interaction with a woman.
I know it's hard, since so many men want to express their 'feelings' early on.They want to impress women. They want to blow up their Ego and get Female Validation. But they have Low Self Esteem, and feel that it is necessary to endure some sh*t test from some female.
They're interested, and they want to show it right away. Or they want a "relationship" by the second date or something.
This is being too needy.

Look,it's ok for Man to show that he's attracted, but it's an entirley different thing to show "Interest".

They are not the same thing.

Only demonstrate "interest" when a woman has genuinely GIVEN something of VALUE to you personally.

If she hasn't, you can keep flirting, and having a good time with her.
But do NOT become Emotionally Invested in her.

Give your love, time, energy, affection, and attention to a woman who has earned it.

Don't sweat sh*t tests from women who offer nothing of value to you.

 

[DavenJuan]

you not being in a LTR for over what 2 yrs? yet you still got it down to the tee.

"keeping" the relationship abroad and healthy is more work then getting into it.

I think what happens most of the time from the guy role is that we DO initially establish our proper gender roles as the dominant lead in the relationship. however, i think the flaw is we do not MAINTAIN this role. we DO become complacent and thats when all goes to hell.

but the biggest question is...arent we suppose to be finding that relationship were we CAN relax and still have that dominance presence? Obviously there will always be those sh!t tests, but would these tests even be an issue if we can deal with them on a subconscious level?

i am at the point in my life were i DO have to stay on my toes, make sure i keep the control in this relationship and dont fall to complacency. And of course we never want to get too comfortable with anything we do...however whats the joy in a relationship if you cant sit back , put your feet up, and embrace it?

 

[STR8UP]

You will be JUDGED by ALL women who consider you a candidate for intimacy or who you are currently intimate with for the rest of your life....fact.

Whether or not your wife is actually "testing" you is irrelevant. It might simply be a situation that arises that your reaction will effect the way she sees you.

There is a huge problem today that didn't so much exist a hundred years ago. It's that power struggle. Women wanting to be men. And it doesn't end when you get married.

You can tell me that you're blue in the face that "It's all about getting the RIGHT woman", but reality is that even the right woman will push the boundaries, and it is up to YOU to be the right man to keep it all in check.

 

[Interceptor]

I think what happens most of the time from the guy role is that we DO initially establish our proper gender roles as the dominant lead in the relationship. however, i think the flaw is we do not MAINTAIN this role. we DO become complacent and thats when all goes to hell.

THIS is EXACTLY the "problem."

EXACTLY.

THIS is WHAT WE NEED to AVOID>

THIS critical piiece of information NEEDS to be DRILLED into EVERY MAN's MIND.

THIS IS one of the MOST Important facets of MAINTAINING a good relationship.


However, having said that..

Never forget to add the WOMAN"s RESPONSIBILITY into the relationship "Equation".

It's as much HER responsibility as OURS.

Women are NOT "Perfect".

Women DO NOT simply "Get US" simply by "showing up".
Keep that in mind.

 

[Interceptor]

Many women want to be "men", because of their NEED for Security. They want to be "men", because they Fear that you are NOT a REAL MAN.
They push on our Boundaries because of their need for constant reassurance that you are a real man.

 

[bigjohnson]

Women wanting to be men. And it doesn't end when you get married.

Actually it just really starts when you get married, particularly if you don't have a strong prenup because now she has the law behind her efforts. Ironic that women will try so hard to make themselves unhappy but most do. Hollywood + feminist thinking are the major culprits. Salt in a dash of economic necessity (most households need two earners) and viola! Social madness.

 

[DavenJuan]

THIS is EXACTLY the "problem."

EXACTLY.

THIS is WHAT WE NEED to AVOID>

THIS critical piiece of information NEEDS to be DRILLED into EVERY MAN's MIND.

THIS IS one of the MOST Important facets of MAINTAINING a good relationship.


However, having said that..

Never forget to add the WOMAN"s RESPONSIBILITY into the relationship "Equation".

It's as much HER responsibility as OURS.

Women are NOT "Perfect".

Women DO NOT simply "Get US" simply by "showing up".
Keep that in mind.

the problem is INITIALLY establishing this role, and MAINTAINING it, our two completely different things.

INITIALLY..
you are attracted to her
spinning plates
care less what type of sh*t tests shes throwing at you
GREATER power to simply walk away since there in no investment

MAINTAINING
you are not simply attracted but also emotionally interested
no spinning plates if committed
still getting these sh*t tests and probably til a higher degree

..you should always have the ability to walk away from anything..however there has to be a difference from being attracted to emotionally interested/nvolved. ..and i think its the same from INITIALLY establishing control and MAINTAINING it.

 

[Interceptor]

Agreed, Daven

Definitely, attracting initially, and maintaining that attraction and HER interest are NOT "Easy" for anyone.

My feeling is that a more mature man, with realy strong boundaries just doesn't "give" TOO much anymore.
In that, he's just not going to be too swayed by the woman, because the guy's just TOO "Centered."
Now I know that "falling in Love" hints at vulnerability. You are "opening" yourSELF up.
Yo uare becoming vulnerable and intimate.
This is scary to a lot of people, men AND women.

But it takes maturity, strong boundaries, perspective, and a strong center (internall compass, integrity, charater, ideas) to be able to FULLY give Love in a healthy manner.

Hence, why you some men are just not going to be fearful or threatened by these tests.
They will probably look upon them with compassion in a way...
,,,because, especially if it's coming from the woman they realy love, in reality it's just her being Woman. (Look, you may say sometimes "Honey, look, I just want to relax and watch the game today, ok? I had a long day and just want to relax, ok?" After she may have been probing you with wquestions or wanting you to do something for thehouse. There will be times when you just need to "recharge" yourself, and not want to deal with her questions or issues. She , if she's good to you, will acknowledge that "Oh well, maybe I'm being a little naggy. He's a man, he's my man. He wants to realx. I'll talk to him later about it." And you can have that reciprocity of understaidng each other's Nature and be in harmony with it.) She's afraid you'll leave her. She's afraid you may cheat on her. She's afraid you lied to her, and you're NOT the "real" you or whatever...take your pick.....

It's like someone you care about wanting YOUR Reassurance.
So maybe there's no need to "look at it" from the perspective as being this "PROBLEM".


Now, this is for a woman whom you now LOVE, whom you know without a shadow of a doubt deserves your Love, and She defintley LOVEs you back, love unquestioned.

 

[Colossus]

Good discussion material.

I keep seeing this "maintaining" crap, however, and it irks me every time.

This concept is self-defeating. It is not your responsibility to 'maintain' her interest or attraction. I think some of us work so hard at attracting that we have to work proportionately hard to maintain what we have generated.

That's not to say that a relationship doesnt take maintenance...you cant just coast on the grease of attraction and good feelings.

My take is dont become complacent and keep your wits about you at ALL times. Maintain your OWN purpose and integrity and let her IL take care of itself.

We should all stop caring so damn much about keeping her IL and attraction at an optimal level and focus on the completeness of our own lives. Because, and this is one man's opinion, We are all on our own journey; we only have companions along the way.

----------------------------------------

I posted the paragraph below in a past thread, but ill paste it because i feel it reiterates a lot of what has been discussed here.


"Your woman will never stop testing you. Stop wishing for her sh!t tests to end. If you are a 'beta', you will get sh!t tested, if you are an 'alpha', you will get sh!t tested just the same, but on a different level. ALL women test their men, and much of the time they arent even conciously aware they are doing it. Its an innate mechanism.

But hear this: They test you to feel your strength. If you freak, if you get emotional or crumble into her frame, you have failed. But if you stand frim in your character and your mettle, no matter how much it may p!ss her off, you have won. She is testing you to feel your strength; your unwaverability not only to all the barbs she may throw your way, but to the rest of the world as well.

Women dont 'make' men into betas. Men become betas by continually failing her tests and bending which ever way her wind blows. Now this is not to say to say you should be totally uncompromising, but in matters of character and personal integrity (yes i said it), stand like a rock.

Your woman may test you a few times a day or a hundred times a day, but if you are the OAK that doesnt bend every time she tries to rile you, then she will sense your strength and know that she has a Man.

Trust me guys, Ive been the little sappling that bends and groans every time a girl pulls some girl sh!t on me, and I still get caught off-guard on occaision.
But once i realized that the essence of a Man is his strength, I could feel my own strength and everything made a lot more sense."

 

[Interceptor]

Colossus, I see your point. Great post.

However, for me, the idea of maintaing interest and/or attraction is not Self defeating.
For example, I look at me staying fit and healthy a way to fulfill my own desires and at the same time accomplish maintaining her attraction and interest.
I also see maintaing good grooming habits, dress well, and making sure I am connecting with my woman and giving her the emotional intimacy that she wants as not self defeating, yet they serve the purpose of maintaingin atractionand her interest.

So in a way we are kind of dealing with semantics, but you do bring up a good point. I do feel that in an LTR a man should be aware of his woman's needs, and not be so into himSELF that he forgets that she wants to enjoy his company too. But being good company is part of a good healthy relationship, that is NOT self defeating.
So I do see your point, we can't simply ask her to lead and we follow..

But I think as healthy men who care about our women, we should strive to maintain the balance of our goals, our Mission, and satisfy our woman's needs too.
It'as about having the ability of Giving, than simply being there to Take from someone.

Just MHO...

 

[Colossus]

^^^^^


My intent was to speak from a point of self sufficiency, not selfish interest, but I think you see that.

Self improving and self actualizing avenues can also serve to please and care for your woman, which is good. Caring for yourself, in effect, helps maintain her attraction to you, which of course promotes reciprocal action on her part.

I think we're just looking at the same tree from different hills.

 

[Tazman]

I believe you cannot be comfortable in life if you think in terms of "passing" sh-t-tests. Sh-t-test is just a term describing women who "challenge" you, but you should be confident in your position and respond as you see fit, as it occurs (not premeditatively). Don't try and "anticipate" it like a game of chess because that in itself weakens who you are, it creates self-doubt (I need to pass this test).

"Complacency" shouldn't accompany "contentment". Be content, but not oblivious to what's happening around you. If your friends start getting on your nerves you don't simply let them have their way because you don't want confrontation, you're going to make it known that if they don't stop you're going to get serious.

I would treat relationships the same way, don't get comfortable and kick back only to become a doormat. You're reactions to any woman in a relationship should simply be "natural", not something you feel requires special effort because it really doesn't.

 

[bigjohnson]

If the woman is going to constantly be picking away at me then she needs to go. Some periodic pressure or poking at the relationship is gonna happen but I don't want to have to constantly put down insurrections. She should know her place.

 

[STR8UP]

I keep seeing this "maintaining" crap, however, and it irks me every time.

This concept is self-defeating. It is not your responsibility to 'maintain' her interest or attraction. I think some of us work so hard at attracting that we have to work proportionately hard to maintain what we have generated.

A man who believes that it is a man's responsibility to lead IN a relationship must accept the fact that he has the responsibility to lead the relationship itself.

You know the saying "If you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself"? Well that applies here.

The more I ponder this the more I believe that although it wasn't so much men who created the situation we are in (gender role confusion) but it IS a man's responsibility to compensate. If he doesn't then who will? I've said it before.....leave the fate of the relationship up to a woman and you end up with one fukked up mess. SOMEONE HAS TO LEAD!

Not exactly that it's the man's "responsibility" actually, but if he CHOOSES to be involved with a woman he must understand he cannot change the world, but he does have some control over his immediate surroundings.

In other words, if you're looking for a woman that isn't going to test you and judge you, well, good luck.

Best you can do is roll with the punches. Unless you marry a woman from the middle of NOWHERE, it's gonna be an uphill battle. Every woman in the western world that is dateable age has been force fed the same lie. Some of them take it more serious than others, but it influences pretty much all of them.

 

[Interceptor]

Great post.
Basically. we should be living our lives proactively, not reactionarily.

In other words, stick to your mission, rather than from the perspective of reacting to the things.
Deal with them as they appear to you, deal with them from balance and proper perspective..not from fear and apprehension.
Obviously having high character will help you better deal with stressful or challenging situations, becasue you have had forethought.

So you have used introspection, and reflection...rather than this emotional outburst to a situation.

 

[bigjohnson]

.... Every woman in the western world that is dateable age has been force fed the same lie. Some of them take it more serious than others, but it influences pretty much all of them.

Yep, which is why I don't think they are fit to marry. There may be a few rare exceptions but overall you can do whatever you want but eventually your prenup is gonna sunset and the law will provide any woman so inclined with a huge lever to use against the man.

A few guys might be able to overcome this and a few women will be wise enough not to push it but I'd rather just avoid the entire headache.

If you're not going to marry or get into a common law situation then the whole thing takes on a much less grave character, of course. Then it's just the two of you and some pressure to conform to societal norms, which is pretty easy to overcome with a little effort.

 

[STR8UP]

As much as i would like to believe that there exists a relationship where everything will flow naturally and you won't have to put conscious effort into maintaining things, I don't think it's possible. You might be able to cruise through it without getting hit by a train, but you always need to keep both hands on the wheel to ensure the smoothest possible ride.

You never know what life is going to throw at you.

Take this situation for example.

Granted, this isn't anywhere close to an LTR situation but I think it still applies.

The chick I have been out with a few times recently.....I have had to make a conscious effort to do or avoid doing certain things simply due to the circumstances of my life at the moment.

Basically, I barely have the energy to get out one night per week. And I am busy most days/nights except for Saturday and Sunday. So it isn't as if when she proposes to get together on night x that I can change it to night y. If I want to hang out with her I have to give up all of my other options.

This isn't a good situation to be in, but i don't have a choice. So I have to actively find ways to keep it from seeming as if she's calling the shots. She suggests kicking back with a pizza and making it a blockbuster night, and to be honest that's what I really want to be doing a lot of the time ANYWAY, but if she brings it up and I just nod my head and go along with it then it isn't gonna be long before she feels like she's running the show, she begins to lose attraction because of it, and she's GONE.

I'm sure you can see how it might be possible for this to occur in a marriage or LTR. You just never know when situations will arise that will cause you to have to actually put effort into making it known that she can't take the reigns.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Don't wish things were easier. Wish you were better.

After 11.5 years of marriage I can tell you that all living with a woman amounts to is how well you live up to the challenge. I don't "work" at anything with my marriage, it's second nature for me now. I see the sh!t tests before they're even delivered at this point. Any guy parroting back to you that "relationships are hard work" invarably has a wife or LTR that is "working" on him. Satisfying a woman has nothing to do with sex; it has everything to do with learning how and when she'll be insecure and counter it by being a strong, positive, masculine Man. It's like playing chess; anticipate your opponents moves 3 plays ahead and prepare. Do it for 10 years and it's second nature.