The truth about looks, of course they matter, BUT

[Infern0]

The thing is the vast majority of guys who aren't good looking, usually COULD be

I'm talking the average guy with the average skinnyfat physique, a bit of a spare tyre and zero muscle tone, doesn't get much sun, has a store maniquin haircut, wearing a Polo Shirt with stoneware jeans and sneakers.

That's joe average who you usually finger complaining "its all about looks"

The thing is, you can fix all that.

You take that dude who is say a "4"

You put him in the gym for a few months and get him a decent physique, some faint abs some noticeable arms and shoulders, suddenly he's a 5.5

Get rid of the ****ty clothes and put him in a fashionable outfit, he's a 6.5

Sort out that hair and shape the neckbeard and he's a 7

Get him on a skincare regime and a bit of a tan, 7.5

Now obviously there are genetic outliers such as very short men or men with disfigurement but that is the real outliers, the bottom few %

Truth is if you think looks are the issue, look in the mirror. If you see ANYTHING that YOU could improve, then stop complaining.

 

[bigdave17]

the vast majority of men terribly underachieve their looks


it's especially frustrating to me when I see a 6'2 fat guy with NW0 hairline and good looking facial features who looks like dog **** because they are fat. I kill myself at the gym, dieting, etc... and I even got a fukking hair transplant done to maximize my looks. These 6'2 NW0 guys have so much potential and are crippling themselves because they don't have the self control to be in shape. I would murder somebody to be a 6'2 NW0

 

[zekko]

The thing is the vast majority of guys who aren't good looking, usually COULD be

I've seen several posters say this, from Backbreaker to Guru1000. At least you use a 7.5 as an example.

I said in a recent post in response to Atom Smasher that most guys looks reside in an "average" pool. The guys who can really get reactions with their looks, the Chad type guys, those guys are a very small minority. I agree that most guys can maximize their looks and maybe move to being above average, or certainly decent looking enough to get some women interested in them.

But I also think there are limitations, and not just anyone can work and improve himself into Chad-like territory.
The good news is the guys who are truly ugly (after getting into shape and finding some style) are also in a very small minority. Most guys fall somewhere in the middle of a bell curve.

 

[Infern0]

I've seen several posters say this, from Backbreaker to Guru1000. At least you use a 7.5 as an example.

I said in a recent post in response to Atom Smasher that most guys looks reside in an "average" pool. The guys who can really get reactions with their looks, the Chad type guys, those guys are a very small minority. I agree that most guys can maximize their looks and maybe move to being above average, or certainly decent looking enough to get some women interested in them.

But I also think there are limitations, and not just anyone can work and improve himself into Chad-like territory.
The good news is the guys who are truly ugly (after getting into shape and finding some style) are also in a very small minority. Most guys fall somewhere in the middle of a bell curve.

Honestly Zekko ill use myself as an example from when I was in my depressed, blue pill stage of life.

I was pear shaped with a fat ass like J Lo, I had a scruffy neckbeard, scruffy long hair, terrible skin from poor nutrition, no ideas on fashion so used to buy cheap boot cut jeans and poorly fitted dress shirts etc.

I was a mess, and women either ignored me or sometimes treated or looked at me with legitimate disdain.

I started lifting with this huge bodybuilder at my work who took me under his wing, this guy was a true alpha who had it all but was just a super cool guy who didn't judge and just wanted to help me out.

I was embarrased to train with him and avoided it for weeks because I was so weak.

But eventually he turned up on my doorstep and basically dragged my ass there, so I went, and after only say 10 weeks I was NOTICEABLY changed, my arms blew up, my ass got smaller, I was getting compliments almost daily.

After 6 months I looked like a totally different person, I got a trendy haircut even put on some fake tan haha and my bodybuilder mate took me shopping for some "slayer clothes" got some slim ripped jeans, fitted white T and white chucks and hit up the clubs.

Within 15 minutes being there im at the bar and some HB8 alt chick with tats grabs my hand , leads ME to a corner and starts macking off with me.

And I've had many similar experiences since.

I'm telling you the change was dramatic, it was actually shocking to me and I looked like a goof standing there with a stupid grin on my face like "wtf do I do" because my game was nowhere near my looks.

I was still a "nice guy" but I LOOKED like a bad boy and it was enough to get considerable success.

I'm of the belief that most guys can get similar success.

 

[resilient]

Mindset and discipline are everything.

Many men just aren’t motivated.

They have to want it... not just to get better with the ladies. They have to want to feel and act healthier for themselves. A matter of self-respect, no? No one is attracted to a lazy sloth, lol.

Once a person makes bold moves to improve lifestyle, decision-making skills follow. It’s not just the muscles. How one walks and talks compliments all that hard work done in the kitchen and gym.

Genuinely caring about oneself and being more open and comfortable around others. Shy guy frame goes away for a while.

 

[Tilex]

I'm gonna quote something I read on this board from a year ago.
Outer game gets you through the front door
Inner game seals the deal

In order to take advantage of your looks, you need confidence to create opportunities.

 

[jaymbrs]

My excuse for not dressing to the 9s, wear hair product and put on cologne every day is because that's not my personality. I'm laidback. So I like to convey that. Putting yourself together every day sends a message of being high maintenance. Just like we talk about women who wear too much makeup. It's very similar.

 

[bigdave17]

My excuse for not dressing to the 9s, wear hair product and put on cologne every day is because that's not my personality. I'm laidback. So I like to convey that. Putting yourself together every day sends a message of being high maintenance. Just like we talk about women who wear too much makeup. It's very similar.

nobody dresses to the 9s everyday. I go to the gym and grocery store wearing shorts and a baseball t-shirt

I dress to the 9s when I go out anywhere decent though

 

[marvinlfloresq]

The thing is the vast majority of guys who aren't good looking, usually COULD be

I'm talking the average guy with the average skinnyfat physique, a bit of a spare tyre and zero muscle tone, doesn't get much sun, has a store maniquin haircut, wearing a Polo Shirt with stoneware jeans and sneakers.

That's joe average who you usually finger complaining "its all about looks"

The thing is, you can fix all that.

You take that dude who is say a "4"

You put him in the gym for a few months and get him a decent physique, some faint abs some noticeable arms and shoulders, suddenly he's a 5.5

Get rid of the ****ty clothes and put him in a fashionable outfit, he's a 6.5

Sort out that hair and shape the neckbeard and he's a 7

Get him on a skincare regime and a bit of a tan, 7.5

Now obviously there are genetic outliers such as very short men or men with disfigurement but that is the real outliers, the bottom few %

Truth is if you think looks are the issue, look in the mirror. If you see ANYTHING that YOU could improve, then stop complaining.

Exactly, great post. Looks are "Contextual" based on the current matter. From all my reading and experience, they really do not matter. Its what you make of yourself. I wanna add, this article to those who still have issues.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33978116

These guys or the youngest, I cannot remember, still was able to meet women.

 

[marvinlfloresq]

Honestly Zekko ill use myself as an example from when I was in my depressed, blue pill stage of life.

I was pear shaped with a fat ass like J Lo, I had a scruffy neckbeard, scruffy long hair, terrible skin from poor nutrition, no ideas on fashion so used to buy cheap boot cut jeans and poorly fitted dress shirts etc.

I was a mess, and women either ignored me or sometimes treated or looked at me with legitimate disdain.

I started lifting with this huge bodybuilder at my work who took me under his wing, this guy was a true alpha who had it all but was just a super cool guy who didn't judge and just wanted to help me out.

I was embarrased to train with him and avoided it for weeks because I was so weak.

But eventually he turned up on my doorstep and basically dragged my ass there, so I went, and after only say 10 weeks I was NOTICEABLY changed, my arms blew up, my ass got smaller, I was getting compliments almost daily.

After 6 months I looked like a totally different person, I got a trendy haircut even put on some fake tan haha and my bodybuilder mate took me shopping for some "slayer clothes" got some slim ripped jeans, fitted white T and white chucks and hit up the clubs.

Within 15 minutes being there im at the bar and some HB8 alt chick with tats grabs my hand , leads ME to a corner and starts macking off with me.

And I've had many similar experiences since.

I'm telling you the change was dramatic, it was actually shocking to me and I looked like a goof standing there with a stupid grin on my face like "wtf do I do" because my game was nowhere near my looks.

I was still a "nice guy" but I LOOKED like a bad boy and it was enough to get considerable success.

I'm of the belief that most guys can get similar success.

Good Job. Props to you.

 

[Mrpua]

I didn't read your whole post, but women just want a man who takes care of himself. That's all.

 

[zekko]

Within 15 minutes being there im at the bar and some HB8 alt chick with tats grabs my hand , leads ME to a corner and starts macking off with me.
And I've had many similar experiences since.

I absolutely agree that guys who improve can increase their level of success. For that matter, guys who don't even think about it will still likely find some success. Every dog has its day and all.

Your story is a good one, and congratulations. Does this make you a Chad? I'm guessing not, but maybe you are. My point is that different guys who maximize their looks will likely find different levels of success. Some may not be as successful as you, some may find more success. And as you say, there are the outliers who will struggle to find any improvement at all.