The truth about flaking

[CornbreadFed]

I just saw this Fresh and Fit clip pop up on my YouTube feed, and I had to speak on it because it was such a terrible take. Most girls aren’t flaking on you because “Chad Tyrese Romeo VI” magically appeared out of nowhere and stole her from you.

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Let’s break down what’s actually happening.

1) Something better did come along
A guy with a higher SMV (sexual market value) in her eyes hit her up. He got priority over you. Simple. It sucks, but that’s life. You’d do the same thing if you had a better option. This is called competition. If you can’t handle it, go escort maxxing and stop complaining. Focus on what you can actually control.

2) She didn’t want to say “No” directly
As someone in sales, I know most rejections don’t come as a clean “No.” They show up as “I can’t make it” or “Something came up.”
Truth is, it was probably a “No” from the start. She just didn’t want to hurt your feelings or deal with potential drama. Why?

A) You didn’t sell yourself or the date well
Girls invest a lot more into first dates than guys do. They need a good reason to show up. Most guys mess this up in three classic ways. Trying too hard to be “mysterious” but just coming off awkward and weird. She doesn’t really know who you are and starts thinking you might be on the spectrum. Coming on too strong and salesy, basically forcing her into a date she never really wanted. Terrible planning. Bad location, vague plans, no thought about her comfort.

Furthermore, these screw-ups open the door for a better option to slide in. The whole point is it not to be your fault for something better coming along.

B) She’s just not attracted to you
She already knew nothing was going to happen between you two. She is not going to waste her time.
The real problem is when guys sabotage themselves before even getting a chance. This is where emotional intelligence and social skills matter. And no, you can’t learn these overnight. Girls avoid being direct because they know how some guys react to a straight up rejection. All it takes is one salty dude to ruin it for everyone.

So, what should you do?

1) Build rapport and comfort first
Call, text, FaceTime, anything to establish a connection. Most guys think the first date is the starting line. It is not. The real game starts with building comfort beforehand. You don’t need to know her life story or her Social Security Number, but you both should know enough to feel safe investing time. If the thought of this is uncomfortable for you then you need to seek help or a mentor for social skills and emotional IQ.

2) Clear plan, clear time, confirm it
I can already hear the “beta male” alarms going off. “Bro, confirming is so needy.” **** off with that nonsense. I am not wasting my evening stuck in traffic for some vague, half-baked plan to potentially run into a no-show. And neither is she. Respect your time and hers. Set a plan, lock it in, and confirm. Act like an adult not a teenage fvck boy.

3) Quit fearing rejection and the friendzone
I would rather get told “I’m not interested” before the first date than drop money and time just to get hit with “No spark” or “I’m not looking for anything serious” after date three. Be upfront about your intentions early. LTR, FWB, whatever. Just be clear. Hiding your intentions is exactly what lands you in the “Fake Nice Guy” category, which is basically the same as being labeled an incel. I truly believe that the majority of guys have been operating on a scarcity mindset and it has negatively affected their game greatly. Quit giving a fvck and treat her like she shvts and farts just like you do.

I hate to call a poster out, but this is what not to do and it ended up being a dud for the OP: (434) Weird day game experience | SoSuave Discussion Forum

Bottom line. Girls aren’t flaking because they’re hypergamous and evil. They’re just making choices. The same way you would.
Instead of whining, focus on your social skills, emotional intelligence, and your own value.

What helped me with talking to women was the Youtuber Playing with Fire. Hate him, dislike him...whatever. I am just stating who helped me get out of the hole the red pill pit I was trapped in. Just look for someone that actually engages with women instead of a guy trying use 48 laws of power tactics and overused pecking order terms like Alpha/Beta.

 

[sevbucmash]

If girl finds you attractive, she'd come, or call if some emergency come up.

 

[SW15]

1) Something better did come along
A guy with a higher SMV (sexual market value) in her eyes hit her up. He got priority over you. Simple. It sucks, but that’s life. You’d do the same thing if you had a better option. This is called competition. If you can’t handle it, go escort maxxing and stop complaining. Focus on what you can actually control.

Female abundance has been high in the era of smartphones, social media, and dating apps. Women have short attention spans with the validation they receive and options they can generate.

2) She didn’t want to say “No” directly
As someone in sales, I know most rejections don’t come as a clean “No.” They show up as “I can’t make it” or “Something came up.”
Truth is, it was probably a “No” from the start. She just didn’t want to hurt your feelings or deal with potential drama. Why?

This happens. It is bullshiit. A lot of women also ghost without explanation.

A) You didn’t sell yourself or the date well
Girls invest a lot more into first dates than guys do. They need a good reason to show up. Most guys mess this up in three classic ways. Trying too hard to be “mysterious” but just coming off awkward and weird. She doesn’t really know who you are and starts thinking you might be on the spectrum. Coming on too strong and salesy, basically forcing her into a date she never really wanted. Terrible planning. Bad location, vague plans, no thought about her comfort.

Furthermore, these screw-ups open the door for a better option to slide in. The whole point is it not to be your fault for something better coming along.

This happens.

Due to female abundance, the threshold that men need to reach in the sales part of the date is higher than it was 15 or 20 years ago.

Women need "all the feelz" and right away.

So, what should you do?

Yes, it is a good idea to discuss solutions.

1) Build rapport and comfort first
Call, text, FaceTime, anything to establish a connection. Most guys think the first date is the starting line. It is not. The real game starts with building comfort beforehand. You don’t need to know her life story or her Social Security Number, but you both should know enough to feel safe investing time. If the thought of this is uncomfortable for you then you need to seek help or a mentor for social skills and emotional IQ.

If a man needs to build rapport and comfort as you illustrate, then this makes a good case for why approaching in real life or using a social circle to arrange dates is preferrable.

2) Clear plan, clear time, confirm it
I can already hear the “beta male” alarms going off. “Bro, confirming is so needy.” **** off with that nonsense. I am not wasting my evening stuck in traffic for some vague, half-baked plan to potentially run into a no-show. And neither is she. Respect your time and hers. Set a plan, lock it in, and confirm. Act like an adult not a teenage fvck boy.

I'm good at setting clear plans. I set dates in person on my approaches.

Clear plan and clear time are good advice.

The confirmation of plans is something that's changed in the last 10-15 years. This is more of a factor in swipe app arranged dates than real life arranged dates. Prior to smartphones/social media, I could set a date 2-3 days in the future and not need to do a confirmation the day of the date. This is something that needs more attention now within 24 hours. It can feel like a bit of babysitting, but with greater female abundance and shorter attention spans, it needs to happen. It's a bit of an expectation now for females and an anti-flaking/anti-ghosting mechanism.

3) Quit fearing rejection and the friendzone
I would rather get told “I’m not interested” before the first date than drop money and time just to get hit with “No spark” or “I’m not looking for anything serious” after date three. Be upfront about your intentions early. LTR, FWB, whatever. Just be clear. I truly believe that the majority of guys have been operating on a scarcity mindset and it has negatively affected their game greatly. Quit giving a fvck and treat her like she shvts and farts just like you do.

The "no spark" text often comes after the 1st date. I think that's also less common now, as women would rather just ghost than send the "I had a good time, but do not see this going anywhere" text. To me, ghosting is actually preferable to that crap text.

Being clear about intentions is good. If she's not into those intention, she needs to GTFO.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Most girls aren’t flaking on you because “Chad Tyrese Romeo VI” magically appeared out of nowhere and stole her from you.

Yeah: The popularity of true crime podcasts has quadrupled the chances that many a girl's elder sister and and BIL are re-creating the exploits of Karla Holmoka and Paul Bernardo... It's tough for these same women to show up for dinner at Ruth's Chris, after unknowingly guzzling down a pint of Halothane earlier in the day, ending up with no pulse subsequently

 

[Drmuscular]

Women flake and do not commit to you because they don't see "value" in spending their time with you.

They see more value in resting in their homes, or doing something else, the chad stuff while it can happen it generally doesn't, she just doesn't care enough, I don't think the reason matters and the manosphere should stop worrying about "Chad" stealing their girl or her getting boned or whatever, its irrelevant and afc, the only thing that matters is that she isn't there with you.

You can only understand this once you experienced abundance yourself and rather stay at home playing videogames, hanging out with your buddies, going to the gym or doing something else other than give attention to becky who keeps texting you or telling you to come over, you get mental fatigue over it.

Of course, if your one-itis or a high smv girl agrees to your date, you will drop other stuff to be with her, hence the way to look at stuff its more about her investment and how she perceives your value rather than the contrary, since you should be spending minimum effort by default anyways no matter the girl.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I'm good at setting clear plans. I set dates in person on my approaches.

Clear plan and clear time are good advice.

The confirmation of plans is something that's changed in the last 10-15 years. This is more of a factor in swipe app arranged dates than real life arranged dates. Prior to smartphones/social media, I could set a date 2-3 days in the future and not need to do a confirmation the day of the date. This is something that needs more attention now within 24 hours. It can feel like a bit of babysitting, but with greater female abundance and shorter attention spans, it needs to happen. It's a bit of an expectation now for females and an anti-flaking/anti-ghosting mechanism.

I remember confirming dates was held as a sign of weakness and insecurity back then. A lot of this is basically how you say or do it. Before wasting your time, you need to know if this girl is taking you seriously or not.

 

[SW15]

I remember confirming dates was held as a sign of weakness and insecurity back then.

I've always felt that confirming first dates is a bit of babysitting that feels somewhat unnecessary. If I meet a woman on a walking path or in a grocery store on a Sunday afternoon and set a date for Tuesday night at 7:30 PM in that conversation, I don't feel the need to confirm it on Tuesday. We made plans and checked schedules in person. However, this seems to be moving more towards a cultural norm.

I have let women send that confirmation text to me on the day of the date and confirmed it by responding to them.

 

[CornbreadFed]

If girl finds you attractive, she'd come, or call if some emergency come up.

If you are the most attractive guy on a girls roster

Women flake and do not commit to you because they don't see "value" in spending their time with you.

They see more value in resting in their homes, or doing something else, the chad stuff while it can happen it generally doesn't, she just doesn't care enough, I don't think the reason matters and the manosphere should stop worrying about "Chad" stealing their girl or her getting boned or whatever, its irrelevant and afc, the only thing that matters is that she isn't there with you.

You can only understand this once you experienced abundance yourself and rather stay at home playing videogames, hanging out with your buddies, going to the gym or doing something else other than give attention to becky who keeps texting you or telling you to come over, you get mental fatigue over it.

Of course, if your one-itis or a high smv girl agrees to your date, you will drop other stuff to be with her, hence the way to look at stuff its more about her investment and how she perceives your value rather than the contrary, since you should be spending minimum effort by default anyways no matter the girl.

Spot on and the way to deal with this is building and maintaining rapport before the first date happens. Girls aren't as desperate for guys as guys are for women and once you reach that point yourself, you will never understand how women truly think. To her, you are just another average Joe to her with the same bag of tricks as the others.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I've always felt that confirming first dates is a bit of babysitting that feels somewhat unnecessary. If I meet a woman on a walking path or in a grocery store on a Sunday afternoon and set a date for Tuesday night at 7:30 PM in that conversation, I don't feel the need to confirm it on Tuesday. We made plans and checked schedules in person. However, this seems to be moving more towards a cultural norm.

I have let women send that confirmation text to me on the day of the date and confirmed it by responding to them.

All you are doing is sending a "we still good for tonight at xyz lol" message. I don't see how that it is a lot of work especially if your time is valuable and that wasted time could be spent doing something else.

 

[SW15]

All you are doing is sending a "we still good for tonight at xyz lol" message. I don't see how that it is a lot of work

It's not a lot of effort. It is the principle of the matter. I don't think I should have to confirm an appointment that I set in person with a calendar check. I know how to manage my appointments in life.

What I could do in the future is communicate after the number exchange to call/text me if something comes up that they can't make it to the get together. That's something that I haven't done in the past but it could happen in the future.

A lot of dates arranged by strangers through tech methods with no face-to-face interaction probably need that extra layer of babysitting.

I prefer not to do the extra layer of babysitting. It is my hope that adults can act like adults. It is possible that my expectations are too high given Millennials and Generation Z.

if your time is valuable and that wasted time could be spent doing something else.

My time is valuable and can be spent on other things. It takes time to get ready for a date at home and get to the date via some form of transportation. Once again, it is my hope that adults can act like adults without babysitting.

It does take some time for 2 adults to communicate effectively. I think the tech world has added an extra layer on to this. This stuff was already complicated enough in the landline and basic cell phone era when I first entered the mating environment in the late 1990s/early 2000s.

I don't remember during my college years (2001-2005) confirming dates on the day of the date. This seems like something that has arrived with the smartphone and social media era.

 

[The Duke]

I've always confirmed my dates before leaving the house. Been doing this for the last 15yrs. I don't believe it ever hurt my chances. It damn sure saved me some time.

 

[BadBoy89]

If the woman is under 30, a man should never confirm.

If the woman is over 30, a man should always confirm.

Everything depends on the womans youth.

 

[ValiantMale]

You don't have to overcomplicate anything. Flaking means she's just not that interested and has other options. Sometimes girls flake to test if you're really into them or just bored and want sex.

If you read women properly, you can know easily what their intentions are and why they do certain things.
Women can be broken down into 3 catergories:
1) Just want to have fun and be sexually and physically stimulated
2) Looking for something more meaningful, wnat to be courted and taken seriously

3) This 3rd category is women who are just bored, don't need or want anything and don't care about your feelings or flaking or any of that. Sometimes the ymay entertain plans but then rather stay in, rather go hang with friends.. This category isnt as important because the first 2 categories can just as easily not care enouhg or wnat to do other things last minute.. Women dont pedestalize men the way men pedastalize women, unless you're a top tier man.

 

[CornbreadFed]

It's not a lot of effort. It is the principle of the matter. I don't think I should have to confirm an appointment that I set in person with a calendar check. I know how to manage my appointments in life.

What I could do in the future is communicate after the number exchange to call/text me if something comes up that they can't make it to the get together. That's something that I haven't done in the past but it could happen in the future.

A lot of dates arranged by strangers through tech methods with no face-to-face interaction probably need that extra layer of babysitting.

I prefer not to do the extra layer of babysitting. It is my hope that adults can act like adults. It is possible that my expectations are too high given Millennials and Generation Z.

I am with @The Duke, I am not wasting my time showing up to a date or anything without some form of confirmation.

 

[CornbreadFed]

You don't have to overcomplicate anything. Flaking means she's just not that interested and has other options. Sometimes girls flake to test if you're really into them or just bored and want sex.

Yes, but there's no reason to punish genuinely interested women for the actions of non-interested/toxic women.

If you read women properly, you can know easily what their intentions are and why they do certain things.
Women can be broken down into 3 catergories:
1) Just want to have fun and be sexually and physically stimulated
2) Looking for something more meaningful, wnat to be courted and taken seriously

This is where discovery(pre-qualifying) comes into play. You read what she wants and act upon it. If you are obviously getting a feel of point 1 from the girl, then why would you take her out to a $400 dollar sushi dinner followed by an orchestral symphony and then drinks at a rooftop bar? Like I stated before, this is where social skills & emotional IQ 101 come into play.

3) This 3rd category is women who are just bored, don't need or want anything and don't care about your feelings or flaking or any of that. Sometimes the ymay entertain plans but then rather stay in, rather go hang with friends.. This category isnt as important because the first 2 categories can just as easily not care enouhg or wnat to do other things last minute.. Women dont pedestalize men the way men pedastalize women, unless you're a top tier man.

If I am dealing with a girl #3, then I will set up a low investment date and damn sure confirm the date 30 minutes prior. If something better comes along or I am not feeling it then I will flake on her.

 

[SW15]

I am with @The Duke, I am not wasting my time showing up to a date or anything without some form of confirmation.

There's been a shift in the culture on this. People dated for decades and centuries without having to re-confirm 1st and possibly 2nd dates on the day of the day.

This wasn't a common tactic prior to the smartphone and online dating era.

The Millennials and Generation Z are 2 now adult generations who are acting like children/perpetual adolescents. They need near constant babysitting.

Part of being an adult is knowing how to manage your day-to-day activities with a calendar. I can manage my appointments.

This isn't just limited to dating. Medical offices do this now too. If you ever have a medical appointment now, they text appointment reminders now too.

 

[The Duke]

There's been a shift in the culture on this. People dated for decades and centuries without having to re-confirm 1st and possibly 2nd dates on the day of the day.

This wasn't a common tactic prior to the smartphone and online dating era.

Doctors offices didn't used to confirm either. Now days many bill you for a "no-show". People are pretty flakey these days and are often pre-occupied.

I've always felt that confirming first dates is a bit of babysitting that feels somewhat unnecessary. If I meet a woman on a walking path or in a grocery store on a Sunday afternoon and set a date for Tuesday night at 7:30 PM in that conversation, I don't feel the need to confirm it on Tuesday. We made plans and checked schedules in person. However, this seems to be moving more towards a cultural norm.

I have let women send that confirmation text to me on the day of the date and confirmed it by responding to them.

So what if she doesn't send the confirmation, do you still go?

If the woman is under 30, a man should never confirm.

If the woman is over 30, a man should always confirm.

Everything depends on the womans youth.

why?

 

[SW15]

So what if she doesn't send the confirmation, do you still go?

I've never encountered that. Women are always sending text confirmation messages to me with first dates in recent years.

I would go because I would hope that we could be adults and keep our word.

I can see how this text confirmation thing is part of uncertainty reduction with strangers. 2 people are very much strangers if they are setting up dates through swipe apps and social media DMs. I can see the appeal of that uncertainty reduction.

When I set up dates in person, it is less of a stranger interaction. There is still a stranger element in it.

 

[Solomon]

You don't have to overcomplicate anything. Flaking means she's just not that interested and has other options. Sometimes girls flake to test if you're really into them or just bored and want sex.

If you read women properly, you can know easily what their intentions are and why they do certain things.
Women can be broken down into 3 catergories:
1) Just want to have fun and be sexually and physically stimulated
2) Looking for something more meaningful, wnat to be courted and taken seriously

3) This 3rd category is women who are just bored, don't need or want anything and don't care about your feelings or flaking or any of that. Sometimes the ymay entertain plans but then rather stay in, rather go hang with friends.. This category isnt as important because the first 2 categories can just as easily not care enouhg or wnat to do other things last minute.. Women dont pedestalize men the way men pedastalize women, unless you're a top tier man.

You mentioned this before but I have seen 4 happen in real time

4. She has another option she finds more attractiveone thing that really showed me how tirlfing SOME women can be is in my early 20s when I first joined sosuave. A girl I met cute brunette came to hook up, she asked if she wanted me to spend the night I said why not. She was fun in the sack, she pulled up her phone and called this other guy she was supposed to go on a date with later and made some lame excuse. I knew right then and there this girl and I wouldn't last (and sure enough it didn't).

I have also been the guy where a girl literally called me to tell me she was on here way to see me just to make some lame excuse to visit another guy, this was in 2011. I never had that happen since literally a girl saying she is on her way calls you, you know she's in her car just to text you minutes later "something came up" knowing earlier she told me she wanted to hang out with me over the other guy

The women who are bored are just using you for validation/attention, they never planned on meeting you they just wanted some guy to fawn over them maybe sext sent him nudes but never wanted to meet up This happens a lot and most guys don't know how to spot them unless they know the signs.

 

[Solomon]

I've always confirmed my dates before leaving the house. Been doing this for the last 15yrs. I don't believe it ever hurt my chances. It damn sure saved me some time.

Agreed I have done the same, the one time I didn't was cause I went to a bar which literally was a 5 minute drive from my house that was the only time I was stood up. Nowadays, Most women text a lot so confirmation is going to come up, the way I set up my relationship dynamics if I don't confirm they do

It's not simpish it's common sense