The True Alpha

Rollo Tomassi

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The reason that so many chumps get so bent about what defines an Alpha is usually because they don't fit that general definition very well. So it's a logical ego defense to make necessity a virtue (once again) and redefine it to better suit their own conditions. It's exactly the same dynamic as the debate over Looks vs. Game. Game takes priority for those without Looks and vice versa. A personal definition of "what's Alpha?" becomes whatever plays to an individual guy's strengths. Deductively it makes sense; we want to be the embodiment of what we 'know' is attractive to women and others.

The problem then is looking at the definition objectively. In an objective light it's difficult to look at ourselves as not measuring up to an Alpha ideal. So it becomes the first recourse to cast suspicion on the whole idea of being Alpha at all. It's a pissing contest between immature men then. Or is it? There is a LOT of observable and provable evidence that many so-called Alpha traits do in fact elicit desired, favorable behaviors (usually breeding precursors) in women.

So then the definition moves into an ambiguous moral ground; is it ethical to be / act Alpha? To be Alpha implies that you necessarily rise above a certain degree of common mediocrity - whether you do so like a guy from hotchickswithdouchebags.com or like a perfect "honorable" gentlemen is irrelevant, you still position yourself above "other guys". To some extent this is selfishness or implies a self-importance that questions moral tenets. I should also add here that women NEVER doubt themselves on moral grounds for outshining their own competition in the sexual market place - they just do so covertly and with a polite smile, unburdened by ethical doubts. Only men attempt to disqualify other men from the sexual marketplace with assaults another's honor, integrity or moral virtue.

And that brings us to the subjectively deductive end of defining Alpha. Every sexual competitor seeks to disqualify their rivals from breeding opportunities. Most animals fight for territory or harem rights. Humans generally do the same combat in the psychological. We seek to disqualify sexual competitors by calling into doubt the sexual credibility of a rival. "Yeah, he's really good looking, but that means he's probably gay" from a man, or "You think that blonde with the big boobs is hot? Girls who dress like that are usually sluts" from a woman are both psychological, sexually disqualifying forms of combat.

This also applies to the observably, provably, sexually successful male capable of OVERTLY flaunting his high sexual value with 2 concurrent women. He must be of low moral character to so flagrantly manipulate his wife and a girlfriend, right? His success, as a sexual competitor, conflicts with what a beta believes should constitute a beta-defined definition of Alpha-ness as it characterizes him personally. Ergo, the polygamist either must be disqualified as a sexual competitor based on subjective (moral) grounds, or the beta is forced to alter his own definition of Alphaness and therefore his own self-estimate.

Every guy has a Game. Everyone thinks they are Alpha in their own way. Even the worst doormat Nice Guy, hammered flat by women for a lifetime, thinks his supplications or Capn' Save-a-Ho mindset is the best way to win a woman's intimacy. He's invested in thinking he's unique in his understanding of how best to arrive at sex with a woman. Likewise, Alpha-ness is a moving target that's conveniently applied or disparaged based on personal circumstances.

Personally I believe Alpha-ness can, and does, have a concrete, objective definition. The problem arises when anyone asserts that they can definitively outline Alpha traits and it conflicts with the subjectiveness and ego-investments of those who define it personally for themselves. So we get a wide variety of what makes a man Alpha - he's the guy of high moral character, princely ambition and integrity, as well as the self-important cad banging his wife and "their" girlfriend. They are BOTH Alpha. Thus I would propose that objective Alpha-ness is NOT exclusive to social status or personal integrity, but rather an attitude of expressly manifested confidence. This can be innate or learned, but the definition is not dependent on moral grounds (or a lack of). A scoundrel and a champion can be equally Alpha or Beta in their psyche's.
 

Warrior74

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taiyuu_otoko said:
Absolutely correct. In nature, women are a result of being alpha, not a means to becoming alpha.

In "Chimpanzee Politics" Frans de Waal documented how the rise to alpha hood was first accomplished through domination of fellow males, and only then did they enjoy the subsequent sexual conquests. As if the females looked to all the other males for cues on whom to choose to mate with.
Then the question becomes, are you a leader of men? How many men do you command respect and loyalty from? A "true alpha" who commands many men will also have to lookout for those men,partially by leaving them some women and not stepping over boundaries. Only when you rule by force like a Sultan with a harem or King David and Bathsheba can you do that. And even god punished King David. So is a gang leader alpha?

LOL I personally think that anyone talking about what is or isn't alpha is NOT alpha period. It's a stupid ideal, like being the perfect christian ext. It's putting other men on a pedestal which is kinda ghey. The point is to tighten up your game in every aspect and be the king of your own life.
 

Nutz

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Personally I believe Alpha-ness can, and does, have a concrete, objective definition. The problem arises when anyone asserts that they can definitively outline Alpha traits and it conflicts with the subjectiveness and ego-investments of those who define it personally for themselves. So we get a wide variety of what makes a man Alpha - he's the guy of high moral character, princely ambition and integrity, as well as the self-important cad banging his wife and "their" girlfriend. They are BOTH Alpha. Thus I would propose that objective Alpha-ness is NOT exclusive to social status or personal integrity, but rather an attitude of expressly manifested confidence. This can be innate or learned, but the definition is not dependent on moral grounds (or a lack of). A scoundrel and a champion can be equally Alpha or Beta in their psyche's.
Good post up to this part which feels like a cop-out. You mentioned there being observable characteristics that women favorably respond to in a sexual manner. Those are what makes a man alpha, regardless of how anyone views him. This self-conceptualized definition is subjective as hell and more often just fitting the round ego peg into the square hole worldview. Sometimes it's more obvious, but generally that's what's happening, like with many of the haters in this very thread.
 

Warrior74

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Nutz said:
Good post up to this part which feels like a cop-out. You mentioned there being observable characteristics that women favorably respond to in a sexual manner. Those are what makes a man alpha, regardless of how anyone views him. This self-conceptualized definition is subjective as hell and more often just fitting the round ego peg into the square hole worldview. Sometimes it's more obvious, but generally that's what's happening, like with many of the haters in this very thread.

Which it's impossible to really talk about as it's an abstract and an ideal. Do some guys have more game than others? Oh yes? Do some guys have the perfect combination of everything? Hell yah. Is that going to help me? Not much, the only thing I can learn from those guys is how they dress, how they treat women and create attraction. But lacking in extreme good looks or wealth, I know I won't have the same leverage that guy does. Game is the equalizer. Game is about improving yourself as man. Becoming a real man instead of some ideal alpha dude.
 

Jeffst1980

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I had to laugh scrolling through this thread, because it was so typical of many MM threads:

-Poster posts something controversial
-Rollo warns that there will be "haters"
-A few posters raise concerns about the OP
-Rollo analyzes the psychological motivations of a hypothetical "hater"
-No real dialogue takes place.

NOBODY EVEN JUDGED THE OP's PROTAGONIST AS LACKING IN MORAL CHARACTER!

It was said that the way that he talked to his wife was disrespectful by today's standards- completely true. If you don't buy that, try talking to your girlfriend about other women that way and see how it goes over.

The concern was also raised that, since he MARRIED this woman, he's setting himself up to lose half his assets the minute she gets sick and tired of his lifestyle. WHY WOULD HE MARRY HER?? The swinging part is fine, but why give her entitlement to his assets? I have a feeling she's just biding her time, and will cash in soon enough. Remember--plenty of wealthy alphas still get divorced.

Which brings us to the "alpha male" definition. Is he alpha? Certainly. Does he exhibit excellent frame control? In his own way, yes. Is it a good situation for him? At the moment, yes. Can he keep this up indefinitely? I seriously doubt it. It sounds cool to be able to say that your wife lets you bang other chicks, but we're not getting the full story here.

Being alpha is just a starting point. Personally, I'd rather be a wildly successful bachelor with a ton of options.
 

Julian

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Oh hai guise wow strong judgement going on in this thread. Before you are so quick to assume anything whatsoever, you must realize that love/family dynamics can be to extremes. I will spare you a diatribe on why but there is nothing wrong with dudes behavior. But at the end of the day


haters gon' hate



you mad???

















brah.
 

Powerlifter

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RT, your last paragraph sums it up very well.

I see myself as alpha because I have a house paid for in full, a truck, car, boat paid for in full, no debt whatsoever and wealth builded up over time by my own investment choices when others were against my decision. I took charge of my own knowledge of which the experts didn't have thats an alpha trait it's your survival and important to make wise choices when it comes to your money.

I choose the women I want to date and they must be of quality and education but above all have a caring love for life atittude and respect of me as I respect her for remember I have chosen a quality woman.

Alpha is a protector of love ones which include aging parents and their care and wellbeing in old age. Protection of whom he is with on a date at any given time and that does mean a fighters mindset and being I am single an alpha can also be married which is a protector of love ones which is his wife and children.

There is more but that to me is what is important as a foundation to being respected and admired from others and what I feel a mature and educated woman would admire in a given man and if it has to have a label or title then it's alpha..I am proud to be an alpha in this regard.

Maybe the mindset of the forum is different for it's all about vagina counts and how many they can deposit their seed in and pound that hairless chest in victory.

My mindset at my age and actually has been since my 20's is quality over quantity and keeping a balanced life along with keeping my wealth and not making foolish decisions. My top of the list is being happy and having a life of balance. I do this on my own merit and women who come into my life are only a bonus and side effect of my behavior which is positive survival for I am alpha.

But as the OP's screen name implies he is nutz if he admirers this type of alpha he has posted about but as a alpha myself what that alpha does is really none of my business or concern and I could care less I have my own life to contend with that alone keeps me alpha.

Peace

Powerlifter

Rollo Tomassi said:
Personally I believe Alpha-ness can, and does, have a concrete, objective definition. The problem arises when anyone asserts that they can definitively outline Alpha traits and it conflicts with the subjectiveness and ego-investments of those who define it personally for themselves. So we get a wide variety of what makes a man Alpha - he's the guy of high moral character, princely ambition and integrity, as well as the self-important cad banging his wife and "their" girlfriend. They are BOTH Alpha. Thus I would propose that objective Alpha-ness is NOT exclusive to social status or personal integrity, but rather an attitude of expressly manifested confidence. This can be innate or learned, but the definition is not dependent on moral grounds (or a lack of). A scoundrel and a champion can be equally Alpha or Beta in their psyche's.
 

backbreaker

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taiyuu_otoko is bringing the pain. that was one of the best posts i have ever read on this forum. ever.
 

2crudedudes

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From what I've gathered in my time on this forum, an alpha is simply a dominant male who gets what he wants from life, including but not limited to his pick of women. A DJ is an alpha that also has class, sophistication, and strong moral convictions.

So in a sense, being a DJ is the next logical (yet completely unnecessary) step after alpha.

A lot of "naturals" are alpha, but they don't worry about being DJs. These men could probably get through life and be completely happy the way they are.

Some guys are more ambitious and choose to go the extra steps, and that's what makes them DJs.
 
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The problem with the concept of "alpha" is that it's difficult to define (you have about 100 different definitions of it) and I don't know of ANY girl that f.ucks a guy because he's "alpha."

And are you "alpha" all the time and in every situation? You lead/dominate every situation? Really?

There's also a misconception that beta males don't get laid, and that beta males are weak.

Who the F.UCK is alpha or beta all the time? Doesn't every man have a mixture of both?

This forum gets more cartoonish by the minute and 99% of this sh.it no longer applies to reality. It just applies to the "Rollo Team".
 

boomerick

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Well......

If you look at historical posts the Rollo team certainly seems to be rellevent and historically appreciated ie well received on this forum......

Maybe you should rack up their track record prior to judgeing them so harshly...

Wait a minute.....hmmmm...shaming them so harshly......

And as far as an Alpha is concerned......don't worry....

I think it's safe to say you will never really find a definition that works for you.....

Over and Out.
 
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Well......

If you look at historical posts the Rollo team certainly seems to be rellevent and historically appreciated ie well received on theis forum......

Maybe you should rack up their track record prior to judgeing them so harshly...

Wait a minute.....hmmmm...shaming them so harshly......

And as far as an Alpha is concerned......don't worry....

I think it's safe to say you will never really find a definition that works for you.....

Over and Out.

Dude WTF are you doing, following me from thread to thread? I'm going over in the Health and Fitness section next, you wanna come??
 

boomerick

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Sorry....

As a rule I don't date forum members but thank you very much for thinking of me.....

Over and Out.

PS I'm sure the health and fitness guys will feel ashamed of all they've done wrong also.....
 

Powerlifter

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The Rollo Team?

Sounds like a good idea for a made for TV Movie staring non other than Rollo himself this fall on CBS.

Powerlifter
 

Alle_Gory

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taiyuu_otoko said:
Choose your frame well, hold it with all your mental might, and the world will filter itself for you.
I'm still not understanding what the frame really is. Composure?

Like if you're an actor playing a fictional character, the frame would be how closely you can emulate that character without breaking back into your normal self?
 

zekko

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I'm still not understanding what the frame really is. Composure?
Holding the frame is when your sense of reality is stronger than other peoples' sense of reality. So they accept your sense of reality. It is controlling the context of the situation.

Like if you believe you are a man of value, and act like it accordingly, then others accept that you are a man of value.
 

Jordie

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IMO, the guy in the story is an alpha because he's living his life the way he wants and doesn't seem to be harming anyone in the process.

I'll have to agree though that they way he talks to people is disrespectful, if he talks like that to his wife in the presence of others, even his friends, his friends will lose respect for his wife which in turn causes them to lose respect for him.

I find that behavior kinda childish.
 

backbreaker

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The Message Boy said:
The problem with the concept of "alpha" is that it's difficult to define (you have about 100 different definitions of it) and I don't know of ANY girl that f.ucks a guy because he's "alpha."

And are you "alpha" all the time and in every situation? You lead/dominate every situation? Really?

There's also a misconception that beta males don't get laid, and that beta males are weak.

Who the F.UCK is alpha or beta all the time? Doesn't every man have a mixture of both?

This forum gets more cartoonish by the minute and 99% of this sh.it no longer applies to reality. It just applies to the "Rollo Team".
there is some truth to this
 

zekko

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IMO, the guy in the story is an alpha because he's living his life the way he wants and doesn't seem to be harming anyone in the process.
It's great that he's living his life the way he wants but I don't see how that makes him an alpha. The guy telling the story may even be more alpha than he is, he apparently has a better looking girlfriend (a model).

There's something else in this story no one has commented on. That's when the guy says about the second girl ""Kristen is our girlfriend". Meaning that she is also his wife's girlfriend. His wife apparently likes to get some bisexual action going on. She may be getting just as much, or more, out of the situation as he is. She may have even been the one to suggest it, and may have found her in the first place.
 
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