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The REAL Reason For Waiting Four Days To Call

Pook

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Survivor,

I'm just pointing out that we can focus on being DESIRABLE all day long and we only end up playing the part of the flower. There are LOTS of posts on becoming desirable. There are not many posts on ACTION.

I quoted Anti-Dump because he noticed something that should be obvious to us. Action is the woman's weak spot. She will talk to you all day. She will chat with you on the phone all day. She will flirt and give interest signals all day. If you push hard enough, you could have sex with her (but is she interested in YOU or in only a Boy Toy, to be used and discarded)? She not only hides herself from you, YOU hide yourself to yourself with all this rapport and 'building attraction' mumbo jumbo. It is only when you go for the number and for the date that nothing can be camoflauged, nothing can be faked.

Bungo,

You're EXACTLY on my wavelength! Let me tell you about my roomate.

My roomate has a girlfriend... but doesn't know it yet. It started out as a 'friends with benifets' type thing. He would drive three hours to pick her up and three hours to drop her off. She is coming and staying a LOT more often. He mentions other girls, she says, "Did you tell them you're taken?" He is already CAUGHT in a relationship, one he did not choose, has no control over, and it is all because he had to have some pu55y.

I think many guys' 'relationships' start this way. They do not BUY the relationship, it just 'happens' (which is the woman defining it).

There is much emphasis on sex but not on sexuality. No wonder dances have de-evolved into a grinding swell of mediocrity. No wonder there are no real 'man' role-models.

Originally posted by Vassago
Pook - You are an UBER NERD. did you play the clairinet in high school by any chance? :confused:
Why do you say this? Because I can write a lot in a very short amount of time?

And to answer your question, I was a brass player. Some trombone, mostly baritone and tuba. I haven't played music in quite a long time and I'd love to get back to doing so (perhaps learn a stringed instrument...) (a clarinet player would not be a bad choice for the Don Juan. The clarinet and flute section is where all the girls are).

I recently did meet a member on this board (I've been talking to him on AIM for years, I try to get CrazyRapala to post on this board). His first remark when meeting me was: "You're HUGE!" (I now have the build of Anthony ellis). Later, he admitted he was stunned that I talk the same way as I post with the same speed, syntax, and vocabulary. I can get talking on something and go on and on as everyone sits back and listens. I've taken over some professor's lectures before.

The point, good Vassago, is not that I'm a nerd. It is just that my talents run differently than yours.
 

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HappyHobo

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Indeed

Pook,

I totally agree with you on the fact that when guys start using women for sexual pleasure... the guy loses control and the women gain it over them...
From time to time, i have met many guys who lived this kind of love life and never ceased and I rarely meet guys, like myself , who are picky in choosing the girls they date and are looking for a long-term relationships...
In my opinion, in a S and P (sex and pleasure) relationship the men get dominated by the women because they are so weak...
weak in controlling their hormones...and because of that the woman is in control...
And what is even more depressing... is that yoru roomate drove 3 hours to get play from a girl ... WOW!... what an AFC..
I hang my head down in shame and pity him.
Furthermore, I would also like to address that I have played violin for many years but i've stopped in playing my instrument as well... My passion is now guitar... but if you want to get started on a string instrument i recommend the violin... my experience was great!
 
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djbr

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Reading this made me realize why AD's is SO GOOD especially for newbies.

Advanced DJs keep arguing that his "machine" is debateable, but it has some ground rules that are easy to understand. And allows us newbies to form the correct attitude. This all told me that's time to stop reading and do some field test on all of this. I'm tired of reading and reading and reading and no action, trying to get the mindset without the behaviors that helps to form it! Being too mental here...


As well, a

BUMP

is great for a post like this one. :)
 

MindOverMatter

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Each person will have their own view on this thing. Personally, I've tried it all, and back when I used to wait 2-4 days before calling, all I got were flaky women. Calling the next day reduced that number of flakes greatly.

But I can see how waiting 4 days can be somewhat of a detox for a person that still puts women before anything else in his life.

When women meet me, they can tell by talking to me that Im not desperate and that I do well with women. If I get a girls #, its because I like them and I want to see them again. They know it and I know it. I dont have to wait to call because I have already proven to them that Im not desperate by the way I act when we meet. Think about it...Have you ever met a guy and just known that he must pull a ton of girls? Its all about the presence you set. When I call the next day, she doesnt say to herself, "This is a desperate man", she says to herself, "This is a man of action. He has no time for bull**** games because he knows what he wants and goes for it." This also discourages them from playing games with you, and that's always nice!

This is a field tested technique but the only reason it works is because deep down inside Im not desperate and Im not needy, so I dont have to fake it. Im not the guy who PRETENDS not to be desperate, I AM the guy who ISNT desperate. Big difference.
Agree with him (vassago) 100%.
 

Jariel

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Originally posted by MindOverMatter
Each person will have their own view on this thing. Personally, I've tried it all, and back when I used to wait 2-4 days before calling, all I got were flaky women. Calling the next day reduced that number of flakes greatly.
Yep, I can back you up on that. What I notice is that most women will follow your lead, so if you wait 4 days, she'll wait 4 days. If you cancel a date, she'll cancel the next date. Yet, if I contact her the next day, she may call me the day after and before we know it, we're talking regularly and cut out all the games.

What you have to understand is by waiting 4 days, you are the one being flaky and she's just responding accordingly. If you start relationships with games, they'll never end. I have made that mistake too many times and find it's better just to establish your interest up front and know where you stand.

Besides, if her interest is high she will want you to call her as soon as possible and will be glad you did.
 
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Oxide

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The point, good Vassago, is not that I'm a nerd. It is just that my talents run differently than yours.
..like, for example, pook loves playing Everquest for 20 hours a day, watch Queer Guy for a straight guy and buy black shirts with flames on them...



Haha, im just ****ing with you bro ;)
 

Bonhomme

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Observations

I've experimented with this, and have consistently gotten better results from calling no more than 3 days after meeting a gal. Usually best to call within 2 days.

For a while now, I've just been calling when it's convenitent for me. But rarely after 2 days.

My strength is physical flirting and using a gal's personal space to get her worked up. Striking while the iron is hot is definitely the way to go here. If they've lost the vibe, it's game over.

Usually I take it a step further and give the gal my # as well. Often they call first, and it's always been the 2nd day after we met.

Rebel Leader's rationale is indeed the only good reason to make a hard and fast rule of waiting 4 days to call. But why should one casually toss out opportunities?
 

A-Unit

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Thoughts.

To me, after years of doing this pick-up thing....

All waiting does for the regular guy is DELAY the inevitable. A girl who HAS NO INTEREST in you will only tell you 4 days later, or ignore your phone call. And a girl who HAS interest in you, won't care.

My friend, Mike, put it in perspective. He liked the girl, why wait? It doesn't communicate much WHEN YOU'RE out there, past college. And in college, you needn't any games for women, they stumble in to your room looking for anything you got: kock, beer, soda, whatever.

As an addendum, or thought on Anti-Dump's theories, if you're looking for a girl who WANTS you, who cares when you call? If you call now and she's a d-bag, would you really want to date someone who's so nit-picky over numbers? Can you imagine how she'd be over bigger stuff? And if you wait, and have to wait to pacify her, now you're playing by HER RULES. So it's lose-lose to me.

In most cases, I don't make a point of 'scheduling' when to call; that's a byproduct of a non-active life. In fact, I'm often too late to call that they get pissed, so definately waiting doesn't help, BUT it affords you the opportunity to bust on them somewhat.

The keys to calling after getting the number:

Keep it short, under 20 minutes.

Look to set up the date, FIRST, and make it easy, like Coffee, or Barnes and Noble. You, and her, need an out. If you BS now on the phone, you lose the ability to Kino her, IF YOU WANT TO, and to engage it great conversation. There's nothing quite like a high energy convo IN PERSON.

Be Bold.

Even if she rejects you, go out in style. Don't be timid about it. Just ask straight up. Anything can sound AFC or Alpha depending on HOW you say it. If you say:

"How does this sound?" it can sound meak or strong, depending on your intentions, AND, what you say afterword. Most times if I find myself in an awkward situation, I make note of the awkwardness RATHER than deflect it. That works exponentially better than shrugging blame. It shows that you had no control or forethought.

Call When It Works For You.

"I was just calling as I had a free moment. I'm on my way/I'm doing/etc."

Gives you something to start the convo off with and gives you an out if you need one. Or call when you have some thought on your mind. The point ISN'T to talk about her work, like everyone else might ask, and which she might be tired of thinking about anyway, it is to get her to disclose her FEELINGS.

If You Don't Enjoy It, Stop.

The unfortunate circumstance of not being enlightened is the naivete in just saying 'screw it.' You gotta bail on the convo if it doesn't get better. Or liven it up just to catch her reaction. Who cares? We're playing detective her to find out what type of girl you got on your hands, we're not trying to bridge a gap in the most pleasant way possible, traversing alligators.

In sales, the point of the phone call is to sell the appointment, AND NOT THE PRODUCT. How you sell the appointment becomes a BYPRODUCT of the appointment. By effectively making a GOOD appointment with a QUALIFIED prospect, you increase your odds of being happy with the end result. It's no different in the phone call. If you're end goal was to possibly get into her pants, then treat it like a date. If you're ok with more female friends, then go any route you want. If she's cool enough, she wouldn't care. HOWEVER, not many girls are really looking to add to her arsenal of growing man-servants who grovel over her every whim, so more than likely you'll be LJBF if you don't stick with the intentions and be bold.

That's just my take at my age with some hint of my background. It's worked for me, it could work for you if it's your style.



A-Unit
 

wildchild

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I think waiting 4 days to call is a really bad idea the only reason i think this is because ive discussed this with girls before and most of them know this rule so they know you actually like them but your waiting for four days to call just to play it cool - women alot of the time use this technique too.
 

Fatality

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You guys that think you should wait 4 days to call analyze things way too much and yes girls are very aware of guys just playing games by waiting.
 
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i am me

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Does this "waiting to call"stuff work in high school?
 

The Experiment

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I am very much a fan of Anti-Dump. I think he is one of the most underrated people ever to step into the realm of Male/Female Dynamics. I think he is great because look at all these tips on the board that you can see on the first page. They tell you when to call, what to wear, and how to wipe your ass. Just kidding on the last part :) but you understand my viewpoint.

The truth with that stuff is that it will award you brownie points from women but essentially you are still slaves to what females want in a man.

Anti-Dump helped to expose that a lot of these threads are still pandering to females. By wearing the latest fashion trend, a girl may notice you. At what price? Whatever happened to inspire men to act more like well, men?

The point of the waiting to call for me is primarily to weed out the girls that give numbers out like a reflex from those who give them out and are awaiting your call. She waits later that night. Nothing. She checks her messages on a constant basis the next day. Nothing. This makes her excited like kids before Christmas. They see all those shiny packages under the tree. What could they be? Then you allow her to unwrap. She gets a taste of who you are. You either leave her wanting more or you give her a great distaste.

The weeding out is also time for you to analyze the woman. Was she worth the close? Yes, action is emphasized but this is time for YOU to select. A girl will select you are as well, whether it be a difference of opinion or mutual agreement. This time gives you the chance to see if she is really worth your time, away from your busy schedule.

Sex is below my first priorities anyway. Having a girl get her panties wet about me is nice but not essential for me to live my life. I'd rather break my max on a lift or get an 'A' on an essay I worked my ass off on. The first priority in life is me. Always. If a girl is too much of an inconvienience, she's getting dumped. I don't care how big her boobs are how she can give pornstar-like lays, its just not worth it.

Invest value to yourself.
 

Disco

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It's all a matter of preference and what you want to do. Just do what you want to do and if you fail, fuk it...eventually it will work.

I have been out of any serious relationships for 3 years now. I've dated several girls in that time but b/c I changed the way I looked at them and quit dating whatever came along I became very confident and quite happy with myself.

If I like a girl and we have common interests I will most likely call them the next day to set something up. If I don't have much in common with them and only see sex happening I will give them a call to meet me at a bar the next time I go out. Either way if they so no it doesn't bother me anymore.
 

Lynx nkaf

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Thanks for posting, Leyton.

I agree that its ok to use a few "tricks". However, keep in mind that "tricks" DO NOT increase interest level. Desirability does.

Granted, the 4-day rule is an effective weeding out process, despite the fact that its also a rule that many women are well aware of. Some women claim to reject men for using the 4-day rule. But in reality their interest in the guy was never all that high to begin with (Which hints to the REAL problem we have with women, but more on that in my future "Looks" post). So does waiting 4 days increase IL? No, in fact it sometimes lowers her IL. Nevertheless for a beginning "DJ", the rule is still effective because it saves him from having to deal with a woman that required a level of desirability that was incompatible with what he could provide at that time.

Re-read the quote from Rebel Leader and you'll understand.
What if the woman always loses IL at the 4 days mark waiting for the call....she's misinterpreting the Man's IL due to disappointment from waiting and "gave up" too soon? passive-aggressively mad so she "turns off" her attraction for him? poor delay gratification relational skills?
 
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Atom Smasher

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This is an ancient thread, written before the days of texting. It’s a faster world today. The opinions on how soon to contact after a first date vary wildly.

In my opinion, the 2nd day after is the sweet spot in general. It shows you’re not too eager, and if she liked you, she will be on edge and excited waiting for your text or call. But it’s not enough time for her to cool down. This is not a hard and fast rule, but rather a part of the set of training wheels that each man must adjust to suit his personality.
 

stormrider

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Besides Pook, Survivor was a great poster. Especially his "The One DOES exist" post. It was really inspirational. Icepick was another great poster. I used to envy how he always sounded like he knew what he was talking about back in 2003. But why the hell is this thread resurrected? Lol. This is ancient.

I've set dates in 15 minutes....or 15 days. The truth is, if she in in your wavelength, it does not matter the time it takes you to set up a date. And wavelength is not based on high interest, but intrigue. It is not probable for a woman to be highly interested in you off the bat based on a short interaction. But it is possible for her to be intrigued enough to find out more about you.

10 years ago I stopped doing long winded pickups and started just going for the instant-pull/same day lay or get her number in 1 minute or less. I reasoned to myself that my success would sky rocket based on intrigue alone. And I was right. My flake rate went down about 90% despite only interacting with women for 1 minute or less. I even made a routine out of it and called it the "One minute number close."

There is nothing you can do to intrigue her more after 1 minute. Your bold approach, confidence, and presence is enough. Figure out logistics and either go for the instant date/same day pull or number close and bounce to another woman. I used to collect 15 numbers a day, not even remember the interactions, and the women would still show up. One time I number closed a hot chick at a college campus TWICE two weeks in a row at the same exact spot and time. I used to time my "pickup sessions" and apparently it coincided with her class schedule. She was like "You already got my number last week at the same spot and time." And I was like "No I don't" but then I checked my phone and she was right. But somehow I kept frame and told her I would text her after her classes.

Even if you do something as retarded as number closing the same chick two weeks in a row at the same exact spot and time with the same routine, keep the frame.

Anything besides instant pulls and a quick number close is a complete waste of time. It is a man's over active ego that thinks he can be cooler than a woman's image of him.

No matter how "cool" you think you are, a woman's imagination can do a better job.

Show up and sweep her off her feet and bounce. Have her thinking about you. Don't ever solve yourself to women. Don't even solve yourself to you. Always be growing and evolving into something greater. Be a mystery even unto the Universe.

Most guys do the opposite of creating intrigue. They approach and tell their entire life story, get categorized, and the woman forgets about them.

Women have extremely short attention spans. The word "interest" does not apply to them in regards to dating. They are purely emotionally driven, so they must feel an attraction pull - they must be intrigued and compelled to find out more about you.

Coming from the paradigm of creating intrigue, don't be surprised if everything you do will start looking like the opposite of what you used to do when you were so hung up on interest. Instead of lingering and wasting time, you leave. Instead of being predictable and trying to calibrate to her, you become unpredictable and do whatever you want she calibrates to you instead. Instead of seeking rapport, you break rapport. You have no need to explain yourself to women nor do you have a need for their validation. They try to sh1t test you by criticizing you and you agree with them. You don't even feel like defending your ego. There is nothing for them to attack, control, hold, or manipulate. You are a complete mystery that cannot be captured, which will in turn cause many women to want to capture you.
 
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GeeMale

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Besides Pook, Survivor was a great poster. Especially his "The One DOES exist" post. It was really inspirational. Icepick was another great poster. I used to envy how he always sounded like he knew what he was talking about back in 2003. But why the hell is this thread resurrected? Lol. This is ancient.

I've set dates in 15 minutes....or 15 days. The truth is, if she in in your wavelength, it does not matter the time it takes you to set up a date. And wavelength is not based on high interest, but intrigue. It is not probable for a woman to be highly interested in you off the bat based on a short interaction. But it is possible for her to be intrigued enough to find out more about you.

10 years ago I stopped doing long winded pickups and started just going for the instant-pull/same day lay or get her number in 1 minute or less. I reasoned to myself that my success would sky rocket based on intrigue alone. And I was right. My flake rate went down about 90% despite only interacting with women for 1 minute or less. I even made a routine out of it and called it the "One minute number close."

There is nothing you can do to intrigue her more after 1 minute. Your bold approach, confidence, and presence is enough. Figure out logistics and either go for the instant date/same day pull or number close and bounce to another woman. I used to collect 15 numbers a day, not even remember the interactions, and the women would still show up. One time I number closed a hot chick at a college campus TWICE two weeks in a row at the same exact spot and time. I used to time my "pickup sessions" and apparently it coincided with her class schedule. She was like "You already got my number last week at the same spot and time." And I was like "No I don't" but then I checked my phone and she was right. But somehow I kept frame and told her I would text her after her classes.

Even if you do something as retarded as number closing the same chick two weeks in a row at the same exact spot and time with the same routine, keep the frame.

Anything besides instant pulls and a quick number close is a complete waste of time. It is a man's over active ego that thinks he can be cooler than a woman's image of him.

No matter how "cool" you think you are, a woman's imagination can do a better job.

Show up and sweep her off her feet and bounce. Have her thinking about you. Don't ever solve yourself to women. Don't even solve yourself to you. Always be growing and evolving into something greater. Be a mystery even unto the Universe.

Most guys do the opposite of creating intrigue. They approach and tell their entire life story, get categorized, and the woman forgets about them.

Women have extremely short attention spans. The word "interest" does not apply to them in regards to dating. They are purely emotionally driven, so they must feel an attraction pull - they must be intrigued and compelled to find out more about you.

Coming from the paradigm of creating intrigue, don't be surprised if everything you do will start looking like the opposite of what you used to do when you were so hung up on interest. Instead of lingering and wasting time, you leave. Instead of being predictable and trying to calibrate to her, you become unpredictable and do whatever you want she calibrates to you instead. Instead of seeking rapport, you break rapport. You have no need to explain yourself to women nor do you have a need for their validation. They try to sh1t test you by criticizing you and you agree with them. You don't even feel like defending your ego. There is nothing for them to attack, control, hold, or manipulate. You are a complete mystery that cannot be captured, which will in turn cause many women to want to capture you.
Dude I thought you were against street game and your 1 minute thing sounds like it is. This is literally what guys do at clubs etc. You told me several months ago about how she should be on the same wavelength and focused mostly on that and said my 10-15 min 'street game' which was just a casual conversation doesn't work lol. Wth man why
 

stormrider

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Dude I thought you were against street game and your 1 minute thing sounds like it is. This is literally what guys do at clubs etc. You told me several months ago about how she should be on the same wavelength and focused mostly on that and said my 10-15 min 'street game' which was just a casual conversation doesn't work lol. Wth man why
Be like water my friend. Like Bruce Lee's Tao of Jeet Kune Do. Do what is effective and efficient. Discard the rest. If you ever do approach and run street game, I've simply found that anything beyond a 1 minute interaction is no longer effective, unless you can instant date. You've got the number, you can't instant date, so move on. There's no point lingering. Save the getting-to-know-you-process for the actual date. Leave her feeling intrigued. Women are like cats. There is no such thing as high interest. That's a cognitive response. Women's responses are emotional. They FEEL intrigued by you sweeping them off their feet for a brief moment and then leaving. They also feel like you are a busy man with things to do. A man doesn't linger. He moves with a sense of purpose.

Speaking of efficiency, everyone knows that showing up to social environments where women see you more than once is the most effective way to create an ecosystem of women. One, you get to pursue your hobbies so even if nothing happens, you won't care as much. And two, girls that like you will often pursue you in these situations. The reason why is women are emotional. Seeing you more than once creates comfort, trust, connection, admiration, all that stuff. It's more than just attraction that gets women pursuing you.

And three, this is underrated and noone ever talks about it, but it creates balance.

A social life and hobbies that includes women makes you very balanced. The average guy starts acting weird when he goes a long time without interacting with females on a normal basis.

And the average guy often becomes desperate if his only options are OLD and club chicks or street game.

It's a stink you can't smell on yourself but women can. Of course I am not talking about the top tier guys who can leave their house once a month and pull without any social life or abundance. I'm talking about the AVERAGE guy. So I don't want to hear it from any studs telling me they don't need crutches like social circles or waiting for women to hit on you is "weak". I've addressed those arguments a million times already.

Perfection is simplicity. When someone makes it sound complicated, they don't know what they are talking about.
 
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