The real issue?

[Hoodie]

I have a feeling that the real underlying issue between men and women today, stem from the fact that women are working, and have to harden their hearts and be more masculine in order to survive and manage the work environment?

I don't even feel attracted to modern women because of this.
I for a long time thought there was something wrong with me, until I identified it was because of this.

So rn I'm working until I make 10,000 $ / month, or whatever I need to pay for both me and my future woman, so she can stay at home and protect her from having to harden up and being around other men on a daily basis.

 

[BaronOfHair]

That's one explanation. Another, which was discussed here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/individualism-its-21st-century-goal.284311/#post-3182607 Tribalism/Identity Politics enjoyed a resurgence beginning in the late 10s. Subsequently, relations between EVERY demographic has been more fractious than usual

 

[Hoodie]

That's one explanation. Another, which was discussed here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/individualism-its-21st-century-goal.284311/#post-3182607 Tribalism/Identity Politics enjoyed a resurgence beginning in the late 10s. Subsequently, relations between EVERY demographic has been more fractious than usual

Yeah that can be a part of it.

What I'm thinking is basically building and offering the best life a woman can have, but the recuirement is that she has to follow the expectations of that arrangement.

If she does, you take care of everything.
If she doesn't, she's on her own.

Really simple model.

It's basically how people operated when male female dynamics was more functional.

I'm sure there are women out there that would really like that arrangement,
and others that don't. Which is fine.

And it sets up a win - win situation, because it makes you also more driven and motivated to work harder and better.
Because there is somone who relies on you to a large degree.
And I think that's the natural male female dynamic for things to work well.

If the modern world is so fukd, why would you leave the person you're supposed to take care of, fending for herself and in the process become cold and hardened?
That's your job, if you're the one responsible to protect what you love.

Does it make sense?

 

[Solomon]

I have a feeling that the real underlying issue between men and women today, stem from the fact that women are working, and have to harden their hearts and be more masculine in order to survive and manage the work environment?

I don't even feel attracted to modern women because of this.
I for a long time thought there was something wrong with me, until I identified it was because of this.

So rn I'm working until I make 10,000 $ / month, or whatever I need to pay for both me and my future woman, so she can stay at home and protect her from having to harden up and being around other men on a daily basis.

I agree OP I think the masculine energy has tilted everything upside down. I live in one of the most feminist cities in the world, and I refuse to take local women seriously because their bathsit crazy with their delusions. It's really that bad. I noticed when I deal with women from rural areas who live a few hours away, their femininity is far superior to the local girls.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I have a feeling that the real underlying issue between men and women today, stem from the fact that women are working, and have to harden their hearts and be more masculine in order to survive and manage the work environment?

I don't even feel attracted to modern women because of this.
I for a long time thought there was something wrong with me, until I identified it was because of this.

So rn I'm working until I make 10,000 $ / month, or whatever I need to pay for both me and my future woman, so she can stay at home and protect her from having to harden up and being around other men on a daily basis.

Good luck. Even if you manage to pull this off, all the years of being socially isolated will make finding a woman incredibly difficult. Being very good looking might help, but it often isn’t enough without social integration.

Many men go on the self-improvement hamster wheel only to be sorely disappointed in their thirties and beyond, which makes them weirder over time, which compounds their mating difficulties, making a vicious circle.

 

[crowolf]

So your solution to beating this system is to join it and try to overcome it?

 

[Hoodie]

Good luck. Even if you manage to pull this off, all the years of being socially isolated will make finding a woman incredibly difficult. Being very good looking might help, but it often isn’t enough without social integration.

Many men go on the self-improvement hamster wheel only to be sorely disappointed in their thirties and beyond, which makes them weirder over time, which compounds their mating difficulties, making a vicious circle.

Don't plan to be socially isolated, and I agree that's a big contributing factor making it hard to find someone.

In reality the biggest motivating factor with it is that I just don't find working women that attractive.
And it's not like the intention is to isolate her, but to make sure she's not stressing and becomes "rough" around the edges.

Will see if it plays out like that or if it's just a delusional fantasy and there's nothing you can do about everything being cooked.

Also, the previous girl I was with, I saw how this played out when she was working.
It was like I never had her, because her work was nr.1 priority.
And over the years I saw her become colder, my cynical, more bitter, rougher.

And I realised that what I lost wasn't her, but the kind and warm heart she had before years of work in a competitive career (Engineering).
Which is what I think every man values the most, they don't want to be with a woman who's become like a rough man.

 

[Hoodie]

So your solution to beating this system is to join it and try to overcome it?

Wouldn't really say beating it, but making enough money to protect your gf from it.
If that's enough to accomplish it.

 

[Hoodie]

It also goes back to the nurturing side of women for raising a family.
A rough, stressed and cold woman doesn't make as good of a mother as a warm, kind and soft woman.

And then there's you: Do you want to come home to a happy, stressfree gf, where you can rest and charge up for the next day of work.
Or do you want to come home to a stressed and angry gf, so you're stressed at work and at home, never catching a break, making your work-output and health suffer?

 

[Gamisch]

Threads like this always surprise me as it comes down to men wanting to reverse the clock. Not saying its good or nad, just noticing.

Thats basically an Islamic-like dynamic, where the woman "isn't allowed " to work and the man takes on the burden of providing everything. What seems kinda odd as the western world seems to hate the Islam with a passion..

Here a a couple of reasons why I believe this is not the solution ,but I will end it with some good news:

- women been fighting for emancipation for years, and they'll be hard pressed to reverse because...because what exactly ? There's zero incentive for women to rely 100% on a man who individually might have his own issues to deal with. On top of that ,freedom can literally be priceless. If a woman wants to feck around then she will do just that.

- women perform better in school..now ofcouree we can argue that " the school system is more aimed at women " , on the other hand women have shown simply more discipline and effort to get those high value diplomas. Tldr: women perform better at the foundation.

- if you provide everything to.the wrong woman you'll be having tons of sleepless nights...it's not like you can magically keep a woman away from whatever seduces her.

The good news I would end it with: IF you actually are able to fully provide a woman with such a life you MIGHT come across one that is tired of working and grinding and will take up your offer. Perhaps even more realistic would ne a situation where you meet a "normal functioning " woman, offer her this deal ans overtime she might consider it. There will still be plenty of women who are willing to be(come) a stay at home type of wife, but ..I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for her..

 

[Hoodie]

Threads like this always surprise me as it comes down to men wanting to reverse the clock. Not saying its good or nad, just noticing.

Thats basically an Islamic-like dynamic, where the woman "isn't allowed " to work and the man takes on the burden of providing everything. What seems kinda odd as the western world seems to hate the Islam with a passion..

Here a a couple of reasons why I believe this is not the solution ,but I will end it with some good news:

- women been fighting for emancipation for years, and they'll be hard pressed to reverse because...because what exactly ? There's zero incentive for women to rely 100% on a man who individually might have his own issues to deal with. On top of that ,freedom can literally be priceless. If a woman wants to feck around then she will do just that.

- women perform better in school..now ofcouree we can argue that " the school system is more aimed at women " , on the other hand women have shown simply more discipline and effort to get those high value diplomas. Tldr: women perform better at the foundation.

- if you provide everything to.the wrong woman you'll be having tons of sleepless nights...it's not like you can magically keep a woman away from whatever seduces her.

The good news I would end it with: IF you actually are able to fully provide a woman with such a life you MIGHT come across one that is tired of working and grinding and will take up your offer. Perhaps even more realistic would ne a situation where you meet a "normal functioning " woman, offer her this deal ans overtime she might consider it. There will still be plenty of women who are willing to be(come) a stay at home type of wife, but ..I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for her..

I agree with you, that it can look like reversing the clock.

The question I would ask is this: Is this reversing the clock, or the natural state that we steered away from and should return to for things to work properly and be stable?

I have often had the same attitude: "You can't go back to the fifties".
But if that order is our natural order, and we deviated from it, which is why everything is a mess.
Then we're not going back in time, we're correcting something unatural, so that things work again.

I don't have the answer, but it's worth considering.

 

[Gamisch]

It also kinda surprises me that despite all the available knowledge about female nature ,male female dynamics, endless horrors stories about divorce amd cheating and all that, that most men STILL believe they will " beat the system " and it won't affect them. I call it the main character syndrome

Another sign that whatever the redpill tried to accomplish has dramatically failed. Men and women basically living in separate dimensions nowadays.

 

[Hoodie]

Threads like this always surprise me as it comes down to men wanting to reverse the clock. Not saying its good or nad, just noticing.

Thats basically an Islamic-like dynamic, where the woman "isn't allowed " to work and the man takes on the burden of providing everything. What seems kinda odd as the western world seems to hate the Islam with a passion..

Here a a couple of reasons why I believe this is not the solution ,but I will end it with some good news:

- women been fighting for emancipation for years, and they'll be hard pressed to reverse because...because what exactly ? There's zero incentive for women to rely 100% on a man who individually might have his own issues to deal with. On top of that ,freedom can literally be priceless. If a woman wants to feck around then she will do just that.

- women perform better in school..now ofcouree we can argue that " the school system is more aimed at women " , on the other hand women have shown simply more discipline and effort to get those high value diplomas. Tldr: women perform better at the foundation.

- if you provide everything to.the wrong woman you'll be having tons of sleepless nights...it's not like you can magically keep a woman away from whatever seduces her.

The good news I would end it with: IF you actually are able to fully provide a woman with such a life you MIGHT come across one that is tired of working and grinding and will take up your offer. Perhaps even more realistic would ne a situation where you meet a "normal functioning " woman, offer her this deal ans overtime she might consider it. There will still be plenty of women who are willing to be(come) a stay at home type of wife, but ..I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for her..

Secondly, I'm not framing it in a coercive way "You are not allowed to work".

It's much more like an offer: "I'll pay you whatever you need per month, and this is what I expect for doing so".

The choice then is hers.

 

[Hoodie]

It also kinda surprises me that despite all the available knowledge about female nature ,male female dynamics, endless horrors stories about divorce amd cheating and all that, that most men STILL believe they will " beat the system " and it won't affect them. I call it the main character syndrome

Another sign that whatever the redpill tried to accomplish has dramatically failed. Men and women basically living in separate dimensions nowadays.

You miss the point of the intention of the post, the intention is to prevent her from getting stressed, cold and rough from a work environment.
Because preventing that is what I suspect leads to a healthy dynamic.

The intention isn't to get laid with a bunch of women you don't care for. Atleast not with what I'm focusing on here

 

[Gamisch]

I agree with you, that it can look like reversing the clock.

The question I would ask is this: Is this reversing the clock, or the natural state that we steered away from and should return to for things to work properly and be stable?

I have often had the same attitude: "You can't go back to the fifties".
But if that order is our natural order, and we deviated from it, which is why everything is a mess.
Then we're not going back in time, we're correcting something unatural, so that things work again.

I don't have the answer, but it's worth considering.

Well, I do believe that the modern woman IS a natural phenomenon. The modern woman is basically raised by the old school stay at home mom/ grandma..they've been telling her to stay independent and be self sufficient and not to rely on a ( dusty) man


If women would want tonbe provided for ,they would stirr their life into that direction.But what we see is that most women try to aim as high as possible, whereas others simply enjoy their freedom.

That's why imo( IMO) men and women nowadays are completely alienated from one another. Men really really want tradition back, while women really want to maintain the current state of things.

To emphasise my point: let's view this through the lens of a HOT blonde 22 year old woman who loves to party...why on earth would she give up her freedom and privileges? It makes no sense.

 

[Hoodie]

Threads like this always surprise me as it comes down to men wanting to reverse the clock. Not saying its good or nad, just noticing.

Thats basically an Islamic-like dynamic, where the woman "isn't allowed " to work and the man takes on the burden of providing everything. What seems kinda odd as the western world seems to hate the Islam with a passion..

Here a a couple of reasons why I believe this is not the solution ,but I will end it with some good news:

- women been fighting for emancipation for years, and they'll be hard pressed to reverse because...because what exactly ? There's zero incentive for women to rely 100% on a man who individually might have his own issues to deal with. On top of that ,freedom can literally be priceless. If a woman wants to feck around then she will do just that.

- women perform better in school..now ofcouree we can argue that " the school system is more aimed at women " , on the other hand women have shown simply more discipline and effort to get those high value diplomas. Tldr: women perform better at the foundation.

- if you provide everything to.the wrong woman you'll be having tons of sleepless nights...it's not like you can magically keep a woman away from whatever seduces her.

The good news I would end it with: IF you actually are able to fully provide a woman with such a life you MIGHT come across one that is tired of working and grinding and will take up your offer. Perhaps even more realistic would ne a situation where you meet a "normal functioning " woman, offer her this deal ans overtime she might consider it. There will still be plenty of women who are willing to be(come) a stay at home type of wife, but ..I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for her..

Maybe you are right, that women aren't interested in this arrangement,
but I'm sure there are some that are, maybe a niche demographic, who knows?

Finding the right woman to provide for would absolutely be important, that would be on the man to filter for.
The ethos would be: Find a good woman, preserve that goodness.

 

[Hoodie]

Well, I do believe that the modern woman IS a natural phenomenon. The modern woman is basically raised by the old school stay at home mom/ grandma..they've been telling her to stay independent and be self sufficient and not to rely on a ( dusty) man


If women would want tonbe provided for ,they would stirr their life into that direction.But what we see is that most women try to aim as high as possible, whereas others simply enjoy their freedom.

That's why imo( IMO) men and women nowadays are completely alienated from one another. Men really really want tradition back, while women really want to maintain the current state of things.

To emphasise my point: let's view this through the lens of a HOT blonde 22 year old woman who loves to party...why on earth would she give up her freedom and privileges? It makes no sense.

But are women today happy? Isn't 30 or 50% or something crazy on antidepressives?

I keep hearing women constantly complaining about men, so my impression is that they're not happy, but maybe I'm wrong.

They might enjoy the attention as we all know in their 20's, but few of those men take care of them, and then they end up without a family in their 30's or a single mom, no more looks to rely on, and then on top of that having to grind on a job possibly for the rest of their expired days because no man is taking care of her now.

Does that sound like a good deal for women in today's world?

Sounds like a lose - lose situation for both women and men to me.

Ofc, they still retain the option to getting fked for the rest of their years, but that's all, nothing more than that.

 

[Gamisch]

You miss the point of the intention of the post, the intention is to prevent her from getting stressed, cold and rough from a work environment.
Because preventing that is what I suspect leads to a healthy dynamic.

The intention isn't to get laid with a bunch of women you don't care for. Atleast not with what I'm focusing on here

I get that.

That's why I said in the good news portion that my experience is that at times / over time a woman will definitely be stressed out and happy to be provided for...BUT you will learn that even that lifestyle has his own tricky parts ...and that women are sometimes uncontrollable creatures..

That's why I said I guess the best chance to make this happen might be to find a woman via the " normal way" and always dangle the option in front of her.

I knew a woman who had a high paying job but left that job because her man got a job offer abroad and made 10x what she made, thus her salary was nothing but an " allowance ".

If you find a womam who wants this you'll be fine basically ,because both parties get what they want out if the relationship.

 

[Hoodie]

I get that.

That's why I said in the good news portion that my experience is that at times / over time a woman will definitely be stressed out and happy to be provided for...BUT you will learn that even that lifestyle has his own tricky parts ...and that women are sometimes uncontrollable creatures..

That's why I said I guess the best chance to make this happen might be to find a woman via the " normal way" and always dangle the option in front of her.

I knew a woman who had a high paying job but left that job because her man got a job offer abroad and made 10x what she made, thus her salary was nothing but an " allowance ".

If you find a womam who wants this you'll be fine basically ,because both parties get what they want out if the relationship.

Yeah, that's really the best scenario of this arrangement, not something coercive, but something she is happy to be a part of.
And that works well for both.

Interesting about the woman that left her job, shows that for some it's really just to get by, they're not "married" to the job.
And might not find their ultimate purpose in it.

 

[Prepostereax]

This is the "build it and they will come" path

It can definitely work, it requires and attracts a woman with a traditional mindset.
It may also attract gold-diggers and sugar babies.

Most available women when you meet them will already be on their career path.
But if you connect with one at the beginning of her career journey (ie at college/ recently completed college/ not established in her career yet) then if she's of a compliant mindset, this is your best bet.