Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

The Question of SOVEREIGNTY

icepick

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I love these Pook-arguments! Even though the people that argue with him usually miss the point and end up continuing on whatever path they were going before the argument, Pook usually writes a ton of words with a bunch of interesting and insightful observations.

No one seems to get the point though. What is so wrong with "Live your life the way YOU want to live it?"

There is more than one way to get "skills" and he is just saying that you can get them from another source than learning how to "act" or from "masf".
 

Imbrondir

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Nice discussion.

I think too pook is getting too defensive about the asf community. Juggler states alot of highly usefull information. To make a lot of conclusions, guidelines and generalizations, seems to me to be a natural progression towards not using them.

One rarely added opinion about asf material btw:

It's hilarious to do :)
I mean, I copy some of the C&F lines/frames/openers because I find doing them, makes me laugh. Even if I mess up somehow, I still can go home thinking: "****, did I really say THAT? And even worse, did she really believe THAT? lol" :D
 

DankNuggs

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I took a break from this thread, and just like I figured, when I came back it had morphed into a topic of actual importance. This nature versus society question is ultimately at the heart of all philosophical methodologies. It determines how we relate to each other and why.

So this has turned into an education versus experience thread, as two means to an end. What is the end? Eternal happiness, self fulfillment, getting laid, getting a job. It is really all one and the same. You are seeking a goal, and your two choices are to fumble through making it work, or study those who have made mistakes, and have had success, and emulate their process/avoid their failures.

The obvious answer is a combination of both, because without questioning, there can be no progress. Without implementation, there is no action. I don’t think anyone disagrees with Pook concerning his viewpoint of working on the self, concentrating on developing your soul, your passions, your happiness.

However, Pook is convinced that the practical solutions provided on a daily basis are drivel. They only offer a bandaid solution for a wound that needs surgery to stop the bleeding.

Every practical piece of advice (hair, muscles, posture, eye contact, kino) is ultimately a parable in and of itself. We could all write a million posts on how to handle any situation with a DJ/Mans mindset. You simply need to delve deeper than “if I comb my hair this way, girls will screw me.” You need to understand that girls are looking for men with their life together, that have a comfortable view of themselves and who they are as people. Men that understand the value of taking a stance in life. Women tire of men who are formless blobs of jello, only to be morphed by the next fad on MTV, or what the next GF tells him to do. The hair analogy is a physical way of showing an emotion, a sense of self.

The AFC misses the forest for the trees. They seek to fill the gap through duct tape and bubble gum. So does the seductionist. While the seductionist feels elevated in their conquests, they are the equivalent to a drug addict. Someone that will stoop to any level to get their fix.

The man recognizes the limitless happiness, contentment and self empowerment found in the word FREEDOM. Changing to an internal locus, realizing there is no creature on this earth that deserves to live more than you do. And having the fortitude to act under that realization.

This viewpoint becomes entirely transverable across the spectrum of interactions, eg work, relationships, goals, spirituality. You recognize it as the foundation and building block for your soul. You only seek how to extend and perpetuate that goal in all areas of your life. There is absolutely no reason that you can’t fulfill any goal that is humanly possible.

At the end of your days, you will always recognize things you could have done quicker, other goals you never got to finish, because life is finite. Nature versus society really has no answer. What you can take away is that you lived, and you lived your life on your own terms. You answered life’s questions in your own tongue. Nothing else is really important.
 
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Originally posted by DankNuggs
So this has turned into an education versus experience thread, as two means to an end. What is the end? Eternal happiness, self fulfillment, getting laid, getting a job. It is really all one and the same. You are seeking a goal, and your two choices are to fumble through making it work, or study those who have made mistakes, and have had success, and emulate their process/avoid their failures.

The obvious answer is a combination of both, because without questioning, there can be no progress. Without implementation, there is no action. I don’t think anyone disagrees with Pook concerning his viewpoint of working on the self, concentrating on developing your soul, your passions, your happiness.

At the end of your days, you will always recognize things you could have done quicker, other goals you never got to finish, because life is finite. Nature versus society really has no answer. What you can take away is that you lived, and you lived your life on your own terms. You answered life’s questions in your own tongue. Nothing else is really important.
FINALLY! Someone who understands!

Your post was beautiful and said all the things I wanted to but lacked the eloquence. The techniques are merely stepping stones to another plateau. Our goals constantly evolve like the ever-changing flux that is existence.

AFC - Is a total pvssy with women, supplicates, kisses their asses and scares them away. Dreams of hooking up with a beautiful girl.

RAFC - Learns from this site or a friend. Goes through the motions awkwardly, following instructions like they are unbreakable Golden Rules. Dreams of hooking up with several beautiful girls.

Seductionist - Starts to see results and successfully gets the women he wants. Becomes a man***** and feels like the God of Pimps.

Don Juan - Realizes the emptiness of constantly chasing women. Knows his time is running out and struggles to make his dreams happen. Women take a back seat to his new priorities, yet he still attracts and seduces them without trying, because all of the great stuff he has practiced has become second nature.

******

My only beef with Pook is that he is not acknowledging the value of what he learned at ASF. Sure it can be taken too far and yes there are guys who are "chained to the forums" But there is such a thing as learning from your mistakes and evolving. I think my feelings are best summed up by a certain Mr. Fingers:

Originally posted by Señor Fingers
1. Have fun and get that ass, no doubt.
2. But NEVER forget your dreams and passions
3. Balance is everything!
Word!
 

Slickster

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POOK, Get off your Pedestal!!!

Wow Pook you sure are full of yourself!

It makes me laugh when I read thru this thread.

All your references to yourself in the third person. Calling Juggler the "Anti-Pook". Saying that so and so's method is the opposite of "Pookiness." Hell, you even posted a link Look like a Pook - Be a Pook!!!

Give us a break man. Spare us all.

It obviously isn't news to you that you are worshipped like a God on this forum. You more than anyone, have a lot of power here. I think its gone to your head buddy.

Anyway, the debate seems to be:

"Be a Man/Focus on yourself" VS. "Methods/Techniques of Seductionists"

How many times have you had this argument? How many pages have you typed making your point? How much time have you spent?

In the end its all futile.

It's all just information. Nobody is living in anyone elses "world" except their own. Learning from others is an excellent way to learn. You make it sound like people are walking around like clones because they learned a method from someone else on the internet.

Whatever the goal is? Get women? Get laid? Get a better job? Get a better life? Success? Anything you learn that helps achieve your goal is good. If someone else teaches you another method that works, do you feel less reward in completing your goal? I don't, I say "Thanks" and move on to the next goal. Learning something totally on your own is great but its not the only way.

So why do you post here Pook? What is your goal? You say that you have no philosophy yet your lengthy posts say otherwise. Its obvious that these pages don't just flow off the top of your head. You are no doubt a deep thinker. I'm really curious. You never seem to ask for advice. You never seem to have problems. Is it because asking for advice would jeopardize your God-Like status here?

You say your successes never came from using any Techniques or Methods but by becoming more Human. I've yet to see you act human. You sit on your Mountain of Pookiness typing out long philosophical posts with your Pookish fingers spreading the word of Pook and condemning those who are Anti-Pook.

Come back down to earth Pook.

Get off your pedestal.
 
Last edited:

icepick

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With all of your whining, you guys are just making it clearer and clearer that you are a bunch of cahksuckers.

Can't you see that there is an easier way than the stupid "progression" that some of you seem to swear by? There is more than one way to skin a cat ya know.

Do you think that only guys who study seduction end up with hot girls? Actually, the less thought a guy has about the how's of getting chicks, the better he seems to do. I know this is true in my case.

Haven't you guys ever experienced a period of time in your life where you were in a zone and you did anything you wanted to, not worrying about other people and how they think of you? Where you don't even think about "if I say this...and they say that...I will do this to make them feel that..." and you just go with the flow?

Those times when the self-critical spotlight is OFF and you can live your life in total freedom from your timid and fearful thoughts: that is the purpose of the 'don juan'.

Whenever I have those times in my life, my women problems seem to solve themselves. The women that like how I naturally live try to seduce me, instead of the other way around.

You guys think that if you act like you REALLY want to act, then you will get no girls. I think that you sell yourself short if you believe that this is true.

There is no such AFC, or RAFC or whatever...jesus, that is just a simplification, it ain't reality guys! Even before this site when I was an "AFC" there were still times when I acted DJ-ish.
 

George Gordon

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Re: POOK, Get off your Pedestal!!!

Originally posted by Slickster
Wow Pook you sure are full of yourself!

All your references to yourself in the third person. Calling Juggler the "Anti-Pook". Saying that so and so's method is the opposite of "Pookiness." Hell, you even posted a link Look like a Pook - Be a Pook!!!
Where's your sense of humor. Pook is funnier than he is serious. He seems to understand the line or merger between conceit and confidence to a tee. I had to chuckle at all the "Pookiness" in his posts.

When I say things like this in 'real life', my friend's often respond like you did, then they get jealous when the ladies swarm George.


POOK

After pages and pages of banter here, all starting from your first reply, I'm curious. When asked about sovereignty, you answered in completely different terms. You didn't even touch on the issue, but, in one sentence, eluded to the Wife of Bath. Then focused on your own world, implying: nay, on the sovereignty. Yay?

Cheers!

!GG!
 

sisyphus

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Pook,

To bring some of your posts to a personal level, I agree having a sense of self and having ones own world is of the utmost importance. And that it should come internally rather than from outside ourselves.

I have a slight problem in that I don't have a sense of who I am as much as I would like. Don't get me wrong, I'm alright, but I don't think I have the kind of vision and sense of self that great men have and that's what I'm looking for.

I guess I could break my sense of self into two categories for sake of clarity. First, is my personality, character. The Second has to do with my passions, goals, etc. I know your going to say this is too philosophical, but please bear with me.

The first part I mentioned doesn't concern me that much. I'd say I have good character, but who wouldn't? The problem that I get stuck on is that I'm too morally sensitive. This leads me to second guess some of my actions in order to try to find the best way to act. But once I have decided, nothing can stop me in acting the way I think is right. I guess the problem here is that I need to do a better job of choosing values. For instance, will I be a bad-ass DJ who will not allow anyone to disrespect him or will I play it cool in sticky situations. The answer does not seem to come naturally to me. And I think the DJ who finally creates his own world seems automatically to know how to act without hesitating.

The second part I mentioned is probably the area I'm most lacking. I've improved substanitally in this area in the past year, and I can see myself on the verge of deciding important goals, but I guess it all goes back to knowing who you are.

I guess it's sort of ridiculous, asking someone who doesnt know me to help determine who I am. I realize that. What I am interested in is your insight into human nature. How did great men determine who they are and find their passions. Any worthwile books on the matter?

Also, I think I have a sense of masculinity. For instance, I as well as my friends see me as the type of person who could go into the wilderness and live off the land. One of my friends will joke around "sisyphus is a real man," though he says it in a joking manner, he really does mean it. And this is before I ever even visited this site.... So yeah, what I want to do now is direct some of that masculintiy in MY own world to a worthwhile goal.

I really respect your opinion Pook and look forward to any insights.
 
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Originally posted by icepick
With all of your whining, you guys are just making it clearer and clearer that you are a bunch of cahksuckers.

Can't you see that there is an easier way than the stupid "progression" that some of you seem to swear by? There is more than one way to skin a cat ya know.

Do you think that only guys who study seduction end up with hot girls? Actually, the less thought a guy has about the how's of getting chicks, the better he seems to do. I know this is true in my case.

Haven't you guys ever experienced a period of time in your life where you were in a zone and you did anything you wanted to, not worrying about other people and how they think of you? Where you don't even think about "if I say this...and they say that...I will do this to make them feel that..." and you just go with the flow?

Those times when the self-critical spotlight is OFF and you can live your life in total freedom from your timid and fearful thoughts: that is the purpose of the 'don juan'.

There is no such AFC, or RAFC or whatever...jesus, that is just a simplification, it ain't reality guys! Even before this site when I was an "AFC" there were still times when I acted DJ-ish.
Oh I see, when I express my opinions against your beloved Pook I am a cacksucker. But when he weves these long posts bashing what I believe in he is cool. I think you are the one who needs to get off of Pook´s d*ck!

Do I think that only seductionists get laid? Of course not! But it is the only way thet helped ME! I am not dissing Pook´s philosophy (or whatever he wants to call it) I am simply promoting more of an open-minded vibe here. I dont try to discredit anyone but he sure does! The worst part is that he has a very limited understanding of that which he bashes.

AFC, rAFC are just abstract terms, of course they dont "exist" any more than skaters, goths, thugs etc exist. It is merely terminology to classify the level of game one has. Geeez! You are caught up in your own words ice!

As far as "going with the flow" this is really generic advice that helps nobody, especially the dudes who have no instincts to pick up on said flow in the first place.

ASF techniques are not for everyone. But to say that they are useless is foolish because they have helped me find my own flow.

Stop defending the familiar so much and expand your mind dude. It may not be the path for you but you have said yourself that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Damn you guys are some touchy lil biatches. Lighten up!
 

icepick

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Oh I see, when I express my opinions against your beloved Pook I am a cacksucker. But when he weves these long posts bashing what I believe in he is cool. I think you are the one who needs to get off of Pook´s d*ck!
Sorry, sorry. I just thought it was funny the way that everyone posts: "Oh pook you are so pompus", "Get off your pedistal pook", "You need help pook", etc., etc.

I realized that the best posts come from people who get assraped on sosuave by all the guys who set up strawman arguments. A guy like pook or playersupreme will write up an insightful article, and people will post and tell them that they are 'faulty' human beings.

It is like you can almost tell the interesting posts by how much flak they take.

Do I think that only seductionists get laid? Of course not! But it is the only way thet helped ME! I am not dissing Pook´s philosophy (or whatever he wants to call it) I am simply promoting more of an open-minded vibe here. I dont try to discredit anyone but he sure does! The worst part is that he has a very limited understanding of that which he bashes.
That may be true. But I really think that people should not use the excuse that they are not 'used' to socializing with women, therefore, they must go learn it from a website. Maybe I am wrong, but I think everyone has the ability RIGHT NOW to interact with women, or to live life the way they want to live it.

If you act timid and unsure of yourself, you will need those techniqes to 'score' because you only have the ability to copy someone else's life. However, if you let your personality completely out (which I think is the 'current' "Juggler method" from reading that long Sexpdx post a while ago) then you will not get ALL the girls, but you will most likely get SOME of the ones you want.

Some people think I should be a failure at women because I act so crazy and immature: "Icepick, you will never get a girl acting like THAT! You have to be smooth and have a sweet tounge!" People think I am very stupid. But I act how I want to act, and I always get at least a few girls after me without even trying. And the personalities of these girls are perfectly suited to me.

Now, when I act like someone different, trying to 'play the game' or whatever, I have the most problems because the girls that I end up going after have flaws in thier personalities that I can't stand. Here I am bouncing off the walls wanting to run around town, yet she wants to go to friends parties and play "social status" games all night.

ASF techniques are not for everyone. But to say that they are useless is foolish because they have helped me find my own flow.
Hey, that's great, as long as you know that the reason for your success was only INDIRECTLY linked with the ASF stuff. I'll bet the most important changes were not in your knowlegde, but in how you looked at things.

That's the only point that I am trying to get across here.

Also, if people blindly follow pook's advice or asf or whatever, then they get what they deserve. Nobody should be so stupid as to read pook's posts and blindly follow.
 

hardwork

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VON NEUEN:
   [Aside]
“Does anyone understand PowerEgo's constant jeering of Pook for being Ross Jeffries? I don't see how this is possible, as Pook's thoughts are so clearly the antithesis of Jeffries'?”

   [Exit]
 

DankNuggs

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To answer Von Neuen's comment, it doesn't particularly matter. The conversation became circular as soon as pook and company started nitpicking each other. The funny thing is that they are actually arguing different points. Pook is more along the lines of the greatest good for an individual, and powerego is talking about getting laid.
 

Pook

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Heavens!

There is so much posted that if I reply to it all in detail, I'll be here forever. So I'll try to clear myself up (again).

But before I do that, I require a higher vantage point.

Ladies!

"Yes, Monsieur Pook?"

Place the pedestal over here.

"Is this good, Monsieur Pook?"

No, no, a little bit to the left. Right into the ray of sunlight coming from the ceiling. Ahh, that's better.

Pook hops onto the pedestal.

Thank you ladies. You will await for me backstage after this post is done.

"As always, Pookius Maximus! We are at your beck and call."

Ahh, it is good to be a Pook! Now that that business is settled, let us move on with this post.

Pook's Objections Against ASF

There is much ado about practical advice. What I mean is the 'wear this color shirt and the ladies will love you'.

On the front page of this website, there is much advice like this. Allen even suggests in one to look at soap operas (with the mute on of course) just to check out what the guys are wearing.

This is all fine and good. Especially as one does not think, "If I wear that, the girls will go crazy over me!" You ought to wear it because you like it and will be fashionable with the ladies.

This is not what ASF is about. Yes, there will be some of this on ASF but ASF is much more than that.

Pook invites everyone to view the stage where several ladies stand waiting.

Notice him?

You see a guy who is either doing his own thing or observing what is going on.

Now watch.

A guy breezes in and says to a lady, "I have to go the hospital? Why? Because my PENIS is TOO BIG! Hahahaha!" The ladies laugh hesterically.

Now observe the observing young man. He is writing on his notepad everything this guy does. Look, he is even interviewing him.

"This is brilliant," he cries, and so makes a BOOK out of that guy who breezed into the bar.

What has happened is that this has gone far far beyond any 'pracitcal' advice. The youth has turned what this guy did into an elaborate system. He then posts it on the Internet as the 'Grand Master Style'.

But did the Grand Master require a manual to become who he is? Did the Grand Master have to read countless forum posts to be who he is? No. He is what he is.

The youth was so desperate to get laid that he observed what successful people do and turn it into a Machiavelli Network. "It will be a weapon to add to our armory against the women," he will say to himself.

Other people find successful guys, observe them, and turn the observations into a system. Often, the successful guys will look back on what they did and turn themselves into a system. They will say, "Attend my seminar and I will teach you my SYSTEM, my STYLE."

First Objection This has gone beyond any helpful hints appearance or action wise. My first objection against ASF is that these systems are other people's worlds. The guy is not creating his own world, he is using someone else's.

"What is wrong with that, Pook?"

Because it is saying, "I surrender. I cannot gain women by myself or increase my faculties to gain them. Let me borrow your world in order to satisfy my sexual thirst."

Now, I am not against satisfying sexual thirst! But I am against it if it becomes a BARRIER to yourself. An example would be a college student so obsessed with getting laid that he flunks school.

In this situation, it is even more serious. I am doing things with women and life that I never dreamed I could. But I would never be able to do them if I kept using ASF's 'styles'/'systems'/worlds. I created my own world, one to fit ME based on my desires, talents, and weaknesses. It is very thrilling because you are discovering new treasures in life everyday.

If a guy has never been laid and he is 40 or such, I don't think the issue is about adopting an ASF world so he get 'laid'. How in the world can a 40 year old man, never married, and never had a girlfirend, and never been laid?

90% of everything Don Juan comes to embracing risk. If you can't embrace risk, then nothing else really matters. I would imagine THAT would be his issue. Sex is everywhere. If a guy wants it and is willing to risk to get it, he will get it no matter what 'style' he does!

But to create your own world is to risk. It is the risk of losing friends, the risk of leaving home, the risk of going outside your routine, the risk of entering uncomfortable social situations, it is the risk of being alive. Statues are safe because they stand there, complete wallflower. But to risk is to be really Human.

Now it is one thing to look at ASF and see if there are any insights on women that you did not know. But one wil not be there long if that is the case, because ASF revolves very much around these 'systems'.

Anyone can take up someone else's world. It is a Nice Guy wearing the Jerk's clothing. But to create your own! It is very very unique and women very VERY much look for that in a guy. They DESPISE guys not living in their world. "I don't know what to do. What do you want to do?"

Who wants to be a Juggler Clone or a Mr. Mystery Clone anyway? Give me life! MY life, not someone else's.

Second Objection

Even if it dealt primarily with 'systems', ASF wouldn't annoy me. But what I very much think is wrong (and will lead guys in the WRONG direction) is the emphasis on control.

In all my previous posts on this topic, from comparisons of Apollonian to Dionysius, and so on, I keep banging the gavel on control thyself.

The opposite of love is not 'hate'. It is power. It is control. You will never love anyone you can control. Women will never love nice guys because they can control them.

The 'seducers' then go the opposite way and think everything is about 'control'. Their world becomes a sad sad universe where there is no love, no happiness, no nothing, but just particles controlling one another in elaborate events.

Observe the posts of PowerEgo and others. People ask, "Pook! Why do you respond to them?" Why, to keep them talking! The more they talk, they more they reveal themselves.

Some may wonder why PowerEgo keeps calling me, 'Ross Jefferies'. You see, in PowerEgo's world, everyone is controlling one another. I am not offering my thoughts or ideas. No, to PowerEgo, I am CONTROLLING people with my words. My use of adjectives and nouns is not to clarify how I think to him, no, it is to CONTROL your mind.

Imagine you giving your thoughts as best you can and someone saying that all you are doing is trying to control people! There can be no discussion because any idea you put out is seen as an 'influence' on someone else.

One thing that seems true, that when people yearn for 'control' of people or when they think their universe is being controlled (by corporations, by shadow governments, by dark deep conspiracies), it is usually because they cannot control their OWN world.

The best way to illustrate my disgust with 'control' is to flip it around.

Welcome to Don Juanita Discussion Forum! Mrs. PowerEgo and the 'seduductionesses' advise:'

"Ladies, you must control his mind. To do this, wear this type flesh revealing outfit. Then, talk in a giddy voice LIKE THIS. In Cosmopolitan, it says that in order to get the 'perfect hunk', we need to deploy THIS strategy where..."

Pookess hits the table.

No! No! No! Quit trying to control the men (for men DESPISE that before all things) and start controlling yourself. Lose weight. Stop talking with that thick accent. Sit up! BE A WOMAN for God's sake! Stop viewing men as some spide to trap in your web. Humanize yourself!

"Pookess is against our practical advice! Why is it so bad that a girl learns how to get guys horny the way she dresses?"

That is not the issue. There are many ways to do that. But your focus is on controlling him.

"Pookess, what about an old maid virgin who is apporaching 40. What ought she to do?"

Sex is everywhere. She can offer herself to almost any guy and they will take it.

"But Pookess, use the system called Mrs. Mystery. Then, she will go to clubs and pick up all the guys she could want and..."

No, no, no! Don't be another girl! Create your own womaness. You want a guy to like you for you. A guy in love with you, when you are being in some other girl's system, will not satisfy you. But a guy who is with you because of you adn what you do, nothing can parrallel to that in the world.

End this Female Alternate Universe of Sosuave

Sisyphus

I think I have an idea of why you seem 'stuck'. It sounds like you are trying to become 'Perfect'. I have a post coming on this too.

George Gordan

See what happens when you get me to post on a thread? =)

I don't think women view the idea of 'soveriengty' in the same way we would. They look at a guy and wonder about his world. They enter the guy's world.

As men, we might look from the sideleines and think the girl wants to be 'owned'. After all, she has taken up his habits, his passions, his desires.

Sovereignty is a 'power' word. Many women think they are conquering the guy, that they are sovereign over the guy.

Remember the seduction scene at the beginning of Richard III? Richard III admits to killing Lady Anne's brother and relatives but he says that his defect was caused only because of her beauty. As crazy as that scene is, there is some truth in it.
 

Pook

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Crotch Sniffer says,

Society is artificial


I don't believe so. I think the greatest good would be to acknoledge society as a natural Human harmony.

In ancient times, the human form often was not seen as 'natural'. They would place hooks in the child's eyes to stretch out his eyes so he could 'see better'. They would fasten blocks and boards to women's feet so their feet do not get 'too big'. I'm sure you've heard of these practices on documentaries and such.

We now view them as cruel, awful, and even barbaric. No one now disputes that Humans have a natural bodily form, written and designed by Nature.

Locke wrote in his Thoughts on Education that the mind is a blank slate (and we can write whatever we want on it). Well, the Human mind is anything BUT a blank slate. Nature has imposed a form for the human mind itself and language and thoughts are often the echo of this form.

Many today view society as artificial. So many think society can be 'changed' and 'altered' into a various assortment of utopias. No, Mankind has outgrown putting hooks in infant eyes or strapping boards to girl's feet. But we have not outgrown putting laws on this or tarriffs on that. People throw themselves at the legislative palace trying to control what gets passed thinking that all of society will be altered to that effect.

This artifiiciality of society is not new. The entire creation of the colony known as GEORGIA was named after the King of England and was going to be a model for Mankind. The founder (I believe his name was Oligeothorphe) contracted an amazing amount of laws concerning agriculture, families, etc. What happened was that the colony of Georgia decreased and decreased in population (people kept leaving) until Oligeothorpe declared the colony a failure and went back home. Then, all these amazing 'laws' were wiped away and the colony boomed in population and productivity.

The entire concept of liberty rests on this idea. There are many 'philosophers' who dream up their own perfect Republics. Liberty rejects all systems and embraces society.

The very first line of Common Sense is, "Some people have so confused government and society as to think they are the same, but they are different, and have different origins." The entire whole of Common Sense goes on to say that the King of England is not the head of 'society' and, therefore, independence is quite possible. It was a very clarifying work for the colonies, as everyone knows.

However, something very strange happend in France as it underwent revolution after revolution. They embraced the ideas of Jean Jaques Rousseau. Now, I've mentioned Rousseau many times in my posts because I belive he is the fountainhead of where feminist and anti-sexuality ideaology takes root on (whether they know it or not). Anyway, Rousseau thought society was completely artificial and saw civilization as a fall from grace. He embraced the social contract.

The result is that society remains 'artificial' but it is 'moral' for people to remold society as long as there is some form of 'social contract'. This 'social contract' will be remembered as absurd as the 'divine law' was of kings.

20th Century

What happened here? Mass death fills the century.

Intellectuals, seeing themselves as angels flying above Mankind and totally distinct and seperate, wished to 'uplift the world' by transforming society (since society is artifiical).

The results was Nazism, Fascism, Communism, and other such horrific works. All these started with 'grand goals' but their chief error was seeing society as artificial.

Is Sexuality Artificial?

What happens to the world when sexuality is seen as an ARTIFICIAL construct rather than part of the Human being?

It means philoosphy fads will reign over nature creating great unhappiness and harm.

PowerEgo does not seem to understand why I wrote the 'Feminism on Trial' article. It is because Feminism believes sexuality is artificial, that male conspiracy kept women down in every and all scenarios.

Feminism is not against just masculinity. Feminism is against feminity, masculinity, they are ANTI-SEXUALITY to the core!

Feminists believe women were made to wear dresses and have long hair. So they try to create a 'sexless' society (since society is artificial). Male pronouns are declared forbidden from language. Men and women must dress androgenous.

What happens when society becomes more androgenous? The more sex is emphasized! Your grandmother was right when she complained about the increased fuss about sex. Sexuality must go somewhere. With it being drained from society, the more people will turn to sex (because sex can never be legislated or philosophized out of existence). Sex then shows up in all movies and entertainment because regular sexuality has been drained. Guys will dress like pimps and women like prosititues because of this.

Sexuality will be the great issue of this century. I don't think you guys realize how major this area is going to become. Men, women, courtship, marriage, even children are set to be analyzed and crushed on the political table.

Go take a look at anything that remains consistant through the ages. For an example, take Shakespeare. We can all agree Shakepseare will be read about centuries from now. But if you look at the commentary, you will notice a profound change. More and more characters of shakespeare are declared 'gay' and modern day politics tries to reflect itself within the plays.

Or take Catholicism. Intellectuals rage at Catholicism of anything to do in the sexual realm, from gays, to contraception, to abortion/pregnancy, to female priests. Yet, they have no problem with the Church's stand on gluttonry or sloth.

The point of these two examples is to show that sexuality is the obvious issue today.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...e=1&u=/usatoday/20031020/cm_usatoday/11910841

Look at this story. What is going on here?

Marriage was always seen as a union of two fleshes into one. Today, we think in Roussau's "Social Contract" frame and, therefore, this one flesh will never make sense. But civil unions, something that can be torn and created at random, do make sense in the social contract mind.

With understanding of sexuality, this union of masculnity and feminity does make sense. But from Rousseau's and modern political view, it never will.

Why do we keep viewing problems in terms of 'wars' or 'weapons'? No, the errors of the 20th century that manifested such horrors was obviously seeing society as an artificial construct.

This error persists for the 21st with all sexual elements of society being seen as artificial. Already, we can see the effects.

Marriages are becoming a joke, especially if they are seen as nothing more than a 'social contract'.

In Europe, the cradles are empty. The Black Plague decreased Europe's population by a third, something the world has never seen. Today, we are seeing it again. The disease is our own misunderstanding of sexuality as Europe's population may shrink by a third (this makes other issues come out like immigration becomes more heated, as does the issue of younger people paying for a larger elderly population).

But the error is not confined there. In every Western Country, the birth rate has fallen below replacement levels.

And even those that are living, what is the result? An androgenous world of cubicles and corporate drones? A life where all male pronouns cannot exist? A world where marriage has become twisted by stupid feminist law that favors all divorces toward the women? A world that if an unmarried woman gets pregnant, there is no stigma, no, the government becomes her husband. The woman can use a guy to get her pregnant and then, when she is not getting paid more than she needs money for 'childsupport', cast stigma on the guy and say, "Deadbeat dad!"?

The feminists and other intellectuals' view is that society creates the sexuality. I disagree. I say that it is sexuality that creates society.

Society did not create sexuality, families, and men. To the contrary, it was the fact that sexuality, families, and men existed beforehand that allowed societies to exist in the first place.

Now I know I am going well off the reservation on this, that this post here is well beyond the typical 'getting the girl' 'improve your life' we usually go by. But you guys need to look around and notice the perversion. Don't be sucked into the 'fadness' of it all.

A century ago, the intellectuals thought Nazism, Communism, and Fascism would RECREATE society and the Human Race would be transformed. What they got was two costly World Wars.

Two centuries ago, the intellectuals thought that Frederick the Great or King George III would arise and recreate society. What they got was shattering of nations and disarray on a world scale.

Three centuries ago, the intellectuals thought that if they deployed their philosophies in the New World, they would get the Perfect Societies they all dreamed up. What they got was starvation and death.

IS THERE A PATTERN TO ALL THIS? There is. It is the stubborn error that society is artificial.

When one views society as artificial, one views humanity and the invidividual as articial. The intellectual then views people as a sculptor would his clay to experiment or throw away.

Oh, you miserable intellectuals who wish to reform everything! Why don't you seek to reform yourselves[i/]? That alone would be sufficient.
 

DjDreamer

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So Pook what are you saying? It's alright for 13 yr olds to seek marriage? I'm just j/k but I hope your posts aren't convincing someone to become the high priest of pedophilia. You have to realise when you write on this board you need to show political sexual correctness.

When it comes to seduction I think you shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water.

I view seduction as a series of ideas that seeks to get the well being of a woman, a costumer and other human beings.

Some seduction ideas are simplistic and others would really mess with your identity (certain techniques might make you think all conversations revolve around power struggle, you might become addicted to a woman's approval)

Some seductionists will command you to do exactly what they say and others will let you know it's ok to alter what they say with your own personal style. You see seduction isn't all bad...some women like the idea of a man trying to seduce them so why fight against the guys who wish to utilize flowers, wine, expensive suits and a low voice tone on a date? Seduction is like a dance. Now should we all do the tango? No...

Originally posted by Pook: What has happened is that this has gone far far beyond any 'pracitcal' advice. The youth has turned what this guy did into an elaborate system. He then posts it on the Internet as the 'Grand Master Style'.

But did the Grand Master require a manual to become who he is? Did the Grand Master have to read countless forum posts to be who he is? No. He is what he is.

The youth was so desperate to get laid that he observed what successful people do and turn it into a Machiavelli Network. "It will be a weapon to add to our armory against the women," he will say to himself.

Other people find successful guys, observe them, and turn the observations into a system. Often, the successful guys will look back on what they did and turn themselves into a system. They will say, "Attend my seminar and I will teach you my SYSTEM, my STYLE."
Now that's messed up... they might be observing a regular complainer of sosuave.com on one of his good days and he decides to read their new system to see what he needs to do. He studies their 'interpretation' of his action so he can act better in the future.

Follow nature? Follow seduction? I say let there be balance. An aspiring DJ needs to show confidence.
 
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ShortTimer

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Originally posted by Pook
Now, I am not against satisfying sexual thirst! But I am against it if it becomes a BARRIER to yourself. An example would be a college student so obsessed with getting laid that he flunks school.
Are you trying to say that the guys at asf are the 'Star Trek-geeks' of the community?

So Pook what are you saying? It's alright for 13 yr olds to seek marriage? I'm just j/k but I hope your posts aren't convincing someone to become the high priest of pedophilia. You have to realise when you write on this board you need to show political sexual correctness.
Where did he talk about having sex with 13 year olds? And **** political correctness -- it stands in the way of honest inquiry. We cannot allow the pursuit of the truth to be hampered by political whims.
 
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DjDreamer

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**** political correctness? What are you saying ShortTimer? If a guy is at a bustop and he has no good pick up lines but a lengthy sex organ he should start an impromptu strip show so as to get a woman's interest?

Overglorification of nature seems to imply that it's ok for 13 yr olds to seek parenthood...society's norms and laws is what tells them to not do it...

Once again...

Follow nature? Follow seduction? I say proceed with balance. Confidence is what makes you more attractive.
 

Pook

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I've put my own ideas on the table and tried to illustrate it the best I can. So I'm going to bow out of this thread.

If I still don't make any sense, take a look at this http://www.hatrack.com/writingclass/lessons/1998-08-14-5.shtml

Now, Orson Scott Card is talking about writing style and singing. But compare it to Don Juan Style and you'll understand why, even if these pre-made styles might 'work', they ultimately stunt your growth and your talents.
 

ShortTimer

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Originally posted by DjDreamer
**** political correctness? What are you saying ShortTimer? If a guy is at a bustop and he has no good pick up lines but a lengthy sex organ he should start an impromptu strip show so as to get a woman's interest?
That's not a violation of political correctness, it's a violation of social norms. Political correctness is about the suppression of unpopular ideas, and thus is counterproductive to honest inquiry into any subject matter. It is the subjugation of science to politics.
 

DjDreamer

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Originally posted by ShortTimer: That's not a violation of political correctness, it's a violation of social norms. Political correctness is about the suppression of unpopular ideas, and thus is counterproductive to honest inquiry into any subject matter. It is the subjugation of science to politics.
Showing political correctness is trying to not offend anyone. It's being careful with the words you use. It's similar to not doing an impromptu strip show at a bustop...

Don't get stressed out because of analogies. Mix humor with seriousness. Be balanced.
 
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