The Placebo effect

[Jariel]

I'm assuming the whole basis for this thread is that guys who use canned materials go out to meet women for the first time and credit all of their success to the canned lines. Of course it wasn't the canned lines, it was the fact that they finally had the balls to get out into the field. I agree with that.

Yep, this is what I'm getting at. I actually do agree with you about the principles you mentioned though, but I consider these most effective as a lifestyle development rather than a strategy.

I.e. some guys might call a girl to tell her about all the women he's got in his life to purposely try to make her jealous or fake social proof, yet a natural won't call that girl at all because he's genuinely too busy with other women. The jealous/social proof principle is the same, but the latter is more genuine and confident.

 

[S0LID]

I agree with you that attributes are important, but I dont see what you've got against good old tactics. Of course some material is there for displaying your confidence, like scripted openers, but tactics are different.

You look like a model, so obviously you dont need to use tactics to create attraction. Tactics like push pull, tension loops and good story telling are vital to most of us. Their a good form of flirting and increase your chances dramatically. After some rapport and maybe a SOI, try saying,

"your beautiful, if you had blonde hair youd sooooo be my type".

a few push pulls and she will start qualifying herself, and you are the prize. Guess what? she will also be having a more fun, exiting interaction.

S0LID

 

[Jariel]

You look like a model, so obviously you dont need to use tactics to create attraction.

Ah, but you are also good looking and in phenominal shape, so maybe that's why you see success rather than from the tactics you use. If you were fat and slobbish, I doubt you would see the same success whether you used these tactics or not. So I would guess that self improvement (namely the weight lifting) has been a much bigger factor in your game.

 

[S0LID]

Ok you've taking focus off my main point, but to make things clear, I look average-skinny in cloths and weigh only 12 stone 2, plus I'm not much above average looks, my head is big and I have a weired shaped nose lol. Speak to someone with thousands of approaches experience like Maverick and ask him if tactics are useless.

 

[syncmaster]

I'm basically saying that whether you use some witty one liner or magic trick or just go and be yourself and say whatever comes naturally, it makes no difference to the seduction process. A rehearsed routine from a nervous person will sound no better than an improvised conversation from a nervous person. Talking to women confidently and naturally is what every guy should be aiming for.

The most effective route to building natural confidence is practice and familiarity. Mixing regularly with people, having conversations and socialising will increase your comfort around other people and natural charisma. Meanwhile, developing your potential as a man, aiming to look your best, striving for goals and having ambition will give you a foundation to feel confident that no one or no bad experience can take from you.

Experience, practice and staying active are infinitely more valuable than reading, remembering and regurgitating lines and tricks like a robot or becoming an armchair theorist with all the textbook answers and no experience to back it up.

Of course, read the tips on offer here: many of them are useful, focus on self-development and come from posters' real life experiences, but you need to develop your confidence for yourself, from your own experiences.

Mate, do you actually understand what the MM is? I've been here for 5 yrs now and i've tried almost everything. I'm extremley grateful for having the inner game to support routines and lines. But a structured approach just works better. You don't need to think about what to do next so you focus more on the conversation and the interaction. You're able to read her body language.

You also only use scripted routines in the first part of the pickup (Known as A1 - A3 in MM). All men have a natural fear of approaching. This is due to a few reasons. 1. She has a boyfriend that will kill you if you try and hit on her. 2 - You won't have anything to say. 3- You're nervous because you've never been there before.

These are hardwired into our physiology and there is no way to overcome them. You can sidestep them to some degree but it something that everyone has to deal with. MM and structed approaches allow you to deal with them and focus on natural attraction.

I've done over a lot of approaches. I find that when i have the structure i can flow more freely. When i get into rapport with the girl i take it easy and just tease. But, you need to get there first - thats where the strength lies in MM.

Cheers.
- Maverick / Syncmaster

 

[theory of knowledge]

the way i see it is that canned routine can improve your game, but its NOT the game itself...

using an analogy, say being a don juan is like professional soccer, you have to have the skills, to be able to kick the ball, pass, dribble, etc...thats the inner game, the confidence.

and then theres the methods and tips like MM, which is like your boots, which improves your playing style, helps you run faster, but cannot teach you how to play soccer.

besides, a barefoot ronaldo will school the average guy with the best nike boots anyday.

 

[Jariel]

Syncmaster: yeah, I did study some of the Mystery Method for a while including the A1-A3 stuff and it all seems like scientific, pseudo-psychological mumbo jumbo. I can't imagine how anyone can relax and have fun with this stuff going through their head. Sure, I understand it and he describes the stages of attraction well enough, but in my view, it doesn't help to create attraction at all.

Another thing I notice is that a lot of these routines and gurus, talk about approaching, picking up, breaking the ice, but give barely any focus to dating and maintaining attraction after the pick up. Sure, if you're just looking to get laid, who cares? But (no matter how hard they try to fool themselves) many guys want more than that!

The thing that bothers me most though is, yes, you can master routines, personas, patterns etc and convince a girl that you're a fun guy and worth a chance, but that seems very temporary. Unless you can keep her convinced and keep running this stuff everytime you see her, her spontaneous decision is sure to wear off and leave her wondering what it would be like to have a more attractive and valuable man. You see, I've seen it happen soooo many times: a girl hooks up with a guy because he seems great fun to be around, but she's not naturally attracted to him. She sticks it out, but as soon as someone she does fancy comes along, she's gone! Yet, by actually becoming one of those attractive guys who women with boyfriends fantasize about, you can sit back and not have to worry about competition.

I just believe there are too many defeatists who don't believe it is possible to become that attractive and desired guy, but I'm convinced that most guys have it in them with the right dedication.

That said, if you are seeing success and you are enjoying it, fair play and respect to you (and anyone else). I can't and won't take anything away from you because that is what it's all about. But from my own experience - climbing from a total charity case to the man I am today -I'm a strong advocate of what worked best for me, which is self improvement and learning to chill out and accept myself.

 

[syncmaster]

I agree with you 100%! Most of the guys that strictly learn routines and patterns will fail. Those are the poor saps that will flouder when "The Game" the movie comes out. MM is a "tool" to convey the great personality you already have. You have to be one of those cool guys to begin with. Thats why i'm so glad i spent so much time at sosuave before moving on. My inner game is great because of it. I don't need mystery method or any other structured approach to meet women in bars and clubs, i can do it just being my fun self. But when I mix the mystery method with the "natural" side it's when miracles happen. It's just like learning a new trick while skiing, it doesn't automatically propel you off to the olympics, it adds to your repatoire and allows you to progress further than if you hadn't know it. I'm a psych major, and even that has contributed some way to my understanding of social dynamics. Everything you do in life contributes to who you are. I do understand your point though.

P.S. - Oddly enough, I learn this stuff at home in front of the computer and when i get out into the field it has become so internalized that i don't ever catch myself saying "Am I in a3 yet?" anymore. I just know - you get a feeling so it no longer becomes scientific. What was once calculated, becomes natural. You become a natural

P.P.S. - Yes learning how to maintain a relationship is key. No amount of structured method could ever figure that out. It takes time, patience and heartbreak to learn that one.