The Placebo effect

[Jariel]

You know all those techniques, lines and patterns seduction gurus and sites like these preach? They do not make you more attractive and any success you have had using them is purely coincidental.

You see, all this stuff is merely a placebo. The purpose is to give you guys enough confidence to go in the field and approach women, thus multiplying your chances.

Think about it: only a miniscule percentage of the world's male population have ever even heard of such techniques, and yet a massive percentage of men are getting laid, married or play the field. In fact, I've witnessed more women problems within the seduction community than I've ever seen among my everyday social circles or acquaintances. Even Mystery, a self-proclaimed seduction god, has more problems dealing with women than anyone I've ever known and very few of these gurus can hold down a relationship.

There are only two root values that PUA material focuses on: building confidence and getting out in the field to meet women. Why go through months/years of studying complicated patterns and techniques for that? Just go straight to the root.

More effective than ANY routine or line, is making yourself into an attractive, positive and good man and that's where self-improvement transcends any route offered by those money-grabbing, egomaniacal seduction gurus and PUAs.

 

[check_mate_kid_uk]

If thats true, then well done, you have just lowered the confidence of 100's of people that will read this :nono:

 

[Jariel]

If thats true, then well done, you have just lowered the confidence of 100's of people that will read this :nono:

OR saved them lots of time, hassle, rejections, identity crises and a lot of money, and pointed them towards a path that will make them better people and give them true and founded confidence.

 

[sstype]

You know all those techniques, lines and patterns seduction gurus and sites like these preach? They do not make you more attractive and any success you have had using them is purely coincidental.

You see, all this stuff is merely a placebo. The purpose is to give you guys enough confidence to go in the field and approach women, thus multiplying your chances.

Think about it: only a miniscule percentage of the world's male population have ever even heard of such techniques, and yet a massive percentage of men are getting laid, married or play the field. In fact, I've witnessed more women problems within the seduction community than I've ever seen among my everyday social circles or acquaintances. Even Mystery, a self-proclaimed seduction god, has more problems dealing with women than anyone I've ever known and very few of these gurus can hold down a relationship.

There are only two root values that PUA material focuses on: building confidence and getting out in the field to meet women. Why go through months/years of studying complicated patterns and techniques for that? Just go straight to the root.

More effective than ANY routine or line, is making yourself into an attractive, positive and good man and that's where self-improvement transcends any route offered by those money-grabbing, egomaniacal seduction gurus and PUAs.

I learned one thing and that is

Don't be a ****y self-assured, game spitting, wannabe player. If you can't back yourself up with flocks of beautiful women chasing you, then you are nothing more than a complete joke. Girls will see right through your act and lose all attraction and respect for you.

but on the other hand don't be a complete pushover and supplicant.

An attractive guy is one that constantly strives to improve himself, yet is comfortable in his own shoes, and is comfortable around other people.

Women are human beings too. They have their insecurities. Don't take them, or anyone else for that matter, seriously. People like those that are easy going and fun to be around. No one wants to hang around the guy that is constantly worrying about what others are thinking about him

 

[JMillion]

Yeah, having the balls and confidence to approach is a very large obstacle for most people. But don't discredit the game. It ****ing works.

 

[typical]

Yea man it depends on the place and type of person your dealing with, sometimes the game works other times you can be yourself totally and it works, just gotta vibe it up with them as early as you can and go with the flow. I myself have never used a practiced line or approach its more of "on the spot make some crap up" thing I have that works.

 

[Jariel]

But don't discredit the game. It ****ing works.

I seriously don't believe it does work. If it worked, you could use it to get ANY woman, or at least most of the women you try it on. However, even most successful PUAs have a less than 20% success rate with their patterns etc.

20% success rate = 80% failure rate.

Would you buy any other product that offered that kind of deal? A car that won't start 80% of the time you need it or a detergent that promises to clean 20% of dirt? And then imagine being told that you have to practise using it for months before you start to see those percentages!

That's the game for you!

 

[sstype]

I seriously don't believe it does work. If it worked, you could use it to get ANY woman, or at least most of the women you try it on. However, even most successful PUAs have a less than 20% success rate with their patterns etc.

20% success rate = 80% failure rate.

Would you buy any other product that offered that kind of deal? A car that won't start 80% of the time you need it or a detergent that promises to clean 20% of dirt? And then imagine being told that you have to practise using it for months before you start to see those percentages!

That's the game for you!

Haha...plus guys do not seem to take into account the social ramifications of trying (and failing) to hook up with many chicks at the same time. Eventually word will spread, and then no girl within your social network will want to be with you no matter what you say or do.

Im not saying you should not approach a girl you like, but pick your battles. If you feel the girl vibing you, then go for it. If she isn't vibing you, then don't push further, just be friendly and laid back, and use her as social proof.

 

[somewhatsuave]

?

So what are you guys saying. I'm confused now. Do these tips work or not man. Cuz they sound hella convincing. Especially all that stuff on confidence, but are you saying that confidence is all you need or should keep picking up tips here on top of building confidence?

 

[Jariel]

So what are you guys saying. I'm confused now. Do these tips work or not man. Cuz they sound hella convincing. Especially all that stuff on confidence, but are you saying that confidence is all you need or should keep picking up tips here on top of building confidence?

I'm basically saying that whether you use some witty one liner or magic trick or just go and be yourself and say whatever comes naturally, it makes no difference to the seduction process. A rehearsed routine from a nervous person will sound no better than an improvised conversation from a nervous person. Talking to women confidently and naturally is what every guy should be aiming for.

The most effective route to building natural confidence is practice and familiarity. Mixing regularly with people, having conversations and socialising will increase your comfort around other people and natural charisma. Meanwhile, developing your potential as a man, aiming to look your best, striving for goals and having ambition will give you a foundation to feel confident that no one or no bad experience can take from you.

Experience, practice and staying active are infinitely more valuable than reading, remembering and regurgitating lines and tricks like a robot or becoming an armchair theorist with all the textbook answers and no experience to back it up.

Of course, read the tips on offer here: many of them are useful, focus on self-development and come from posters' real life experiences, but you need to develop your confidence for yourself, from your own experiences.

 

[insanity]

it's all about the law of averages. if you walk into a mall and cold approach 100 chicks and dj it up. chances are 20 of them will give you a go.

 

[NYC Dude]

Using techniques does help, I don't see how you could say that they do not. Simply approaching more girls will help as well, but by using the techniques found here and in other places your rate of success with those approaches will increase as well. That has been my experience at least.

 

[insanity]

the more i do, the more i adapt. look at sales people. they get shot down alot. do they stop. nope their mission is to sell by all means possible.

same thing with girls. your selling yourself and hoping they'll buy. the more women you go up to the more chances of getting a yes

 

[de silva]

Jariel, I've read a lot of your posts dude.

Seriously, you should preface your posts by saying you really don't know what you're talking about and are still trying to figure things out. That's the truth of it. (Not necessarily a bad thing, but be honest about it.)

Not that I really give a shyt what you write or that anyone will listen to you. 99% of this site is absolute crap anyway. But seriously, you write like a woman. You take whatever you happen to be feeling in the moment and ascribe to it some kind of mystical importance and then proceed to create long screeds justifying why your feelings are 'correct' (you don't actually name your feelings as the inspiration for your posts, but trust me, to one who knows, it's clear). Bro, you're never gonna gain the confidence you so desperately seek if you let yourself be enslaved by your feelings.

Now, yes, sure, go ahead with a five-pager justifying yourself. I don't care, I won't be here to read it. Just know that by doing so you'll just root yourself even more firmly into hopelessness.

 

[Jariel]

Well, De Silva, the fact is anyone who is actively improving will always be figuring new things out and adapting. That's what's known as "learning from experience".

I have made an effort to learn, experiment and apply numerous theories and strategies out and everything I write comes from personal experience, which means I DO know what I'm talking about. Unlike a lot of the brainwashed victims of the seduction community, I do not let some self-proclaimed guru or group of pick up artists tell me their way is the only way and blindly follow everything they say. I go out, test everything I've learned, observe other people, speak with friends and then share my experiences.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean that I'm never gonna gain confidence. I am confident. Admitedly it's taken time, but I am actually exactly where I want to be now. I am surrounded by friends, have a great social life, I have the respect of everyone I meet and have a beautiful and sweet girlfriend who adores me. I also have many women pursuing me and am not short of options. I'd like to be a bit more successful career wise, but otherwise I'm contented.

If you don't like what I'm writing, I have no problem with that. I'm not here for my ego or for any reputation; I'm here to help guys overcome the same issues I once had. Take it or leave it.

Just know that by doing so you'll just root yourself even more firmly into hopelessness.

Where do you get the idea that defending myself makes me hopeless?

 

[brosnake]

Jariel- Bingo. Exactly. For further on this topic see: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=69133&highlight=game

The biggest limiting belief in getting women is that one needs "GAME" (whatever the fvck that is) in order to get them. The guys getting the most, highest quality girls I know never used a canned line or intentially tried to be ****y/funny, EVER.

 

[Bourne]

I agree completely. That is why I love natural approach. Just go in there and demonstrate your natural charm and personality.

I don't want to try out rehearsed techniques and canned lines. I want to go in there and have a real interaction, moment and a connection.

 

[cactus3178]

Jariel,

Yeah, I agree with these techniques being somewhat of a placebo.

Spitting canned lines, using cookie cutter techniques.....won't work. People here have to realize that, like you said, that they need to get the f*ck into the field, try it on and see what works for you personally.

This sh*t won't work the same way for everybody!!

But, however......it helps. It doesn't really matter how it works, it matters that it works.

 

[JMillion]

I seriously don't believe it does work. If it worked, you could use it to get ANY woman, or at least most of the women you try it on. However, even most successful PUAs have a less than 20% success rate with their patterns etc.

20% success rate = 80% failure rate.

Would you buy any other product that offered that kind of deal? A car that won't start 80% of the time you need it or a detergent that promises to clean 20% of dirt? And then imagine being told that you have to practise using it for months before you start to see those percentages!

That's the game for you!

Nothing works on every woman.

 

[JMillion]

I'm not defending canned material and routines. I'm defending the underlying principles of the game: Creating jealousy, preselection, social proof, disqualification theory, etc. This **** f*cking works. Of course you don't canned materials to do it; Of course you don't need to study it. Naturals do this stuff constantly.

I'm assuming the whole basis for this thread is that guys who use canned materials go out to meet women for the first time and credit all of their success to the canned lines. Of course it wasn't the canned lines, it was the fact that they finally had the balls to get out into the field. I agree with that.