The Paradox of Self-Actualization

[Rubato]

One thing I keep seeing reiterated on here in one form or another is that guys need to work on their inner game not just so they don't appear needy, desperate, ect, but so that they actually aren't. People make statements like "everything you need, you already have inside of you" and "learn how to love yourself and feel complete in it". Things that sound very much in the same vein of thought that many Eastern religions come from. And that's not a pejorative statement by any means, it's just an observation.

As I thought about this, it occurred to me that if any form of that was actually true and I had perfected my inner game, I would never want to talk to another woman again. According to the means, women are capriciously strange creatures that manipulate according to their capricious whims and aren't very trustworthy due to their capricious nature. If you didn't get it after reading that last statement, I think women are very capricious. If I really did have everything I needed inside of me and realized that on a substantive level, it wouldn't make sense for me to have one more sexual liaison with a woman when I can probably have a much more satisfying interaction with my right hand (what can I say, the young women in my area are not very good in bed). And not only that, but I would save myself from all the drama that comes from interacting with women, and the faux self many PUA's adorn in order to attract these women.

A lot of people say that becoming a Venusian artist is replacing all faux selves with the self we have inside of ourselves that is authentic, but I don't really believe that. If it were true, we wouldn't focus so much on what women find sexually attractive (note all of the threads on this forum about how men can amplify their sexuality), what we can do to break a woman's LMR, how to open a woman, how to build comfort/rapport with a woman. Is that really what we want to be spending all of our time on, or even a significant portion of it?

I think that if this inner game stuff was really carried out to its logical conclusion, all of those who reached that point would never post on here again unless it was to implore others to follow the same path they did so that they could get on with their lives and figure out what they should really be doing, rather than worshiping at the alter of the vagina. Don't get me wrong, I think inner game, self esteem, and all that stuff is extremely important, but let's not make the mistake of turning it in to a sacred cow and turning it in to the rather and forget what the game really is.

We are men born with drives and instincts we can't control (either via creation or evolution, whichever you believe) to survive and reproduce. I had a very interesting conversation with my endocrinology professor about all of this today and when it all comes down to it, no matter how much legitimate confidence we have, how much we have unconditionally accepted ourselves, and how much self esteem we have, as men, we will still desire women sexually. And while inner game addresses several issues of the game (namely, many proper ways a man can present himself to a woman), it fails to consider what the game actually is and how we ought to play it.

We can believe in ourselves all we want to and at the end of the day, if we're not attracting women we will not possess any women. Granted, if we believe in ourselves that much we will be doing much better than those who don't, but raw self confidence that is never displayed to a woman will never attract her. And should a man really be that self confident, he may fail to attract the woman by making her think his real feelings are a rouse because they would be so uncommon.

The game is about men attracting women sufficiently for them to choose to mate with them. Those who play the game most successfully are those who are best able to attract women, and that may not occur as a function of simply being self-actualized. Could it be perhaps that the best player is going to be the one who (to modify a Deangelo example) is able to act as a mimic octopus does? Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8oQBYw6xxc

When it comes to convincing a woman to mate with you, who you are is irrelevant. This is a tough pill for a lot of people to swallow, but if you can't believe in theories like sexual selection that assert women are the one's choosing their mates and also say that if a man wants to be chosen, he should give no consideration to the preferences of the chooser. It's a balancing act for sure. But these arts are manipulation often gussied as self improvement strategies so that we don't feel bad about what we're doing. And a lot of time, we do see substantive self improvement from what we do. But let's take a moment to consider what it is that we're really trying to accomplish and out of that, what the best way to accomplish it would be.

 

[backbreaker]

s I thought about this, it occurred to me that if any form of that was actually true and I had perfected my inner game, I would never want to talk to another woman again.

this is what you get for thinking. Please stop.


the rest of your post reeks of someone who has thought everything out and has very little actual experience so i am not going to waste my time.


Better yet, stop trying to lead the blind when you have -3.25 -3.00 vision. You would not be here if you were getting ass constantly. Just because you write with flair doesn't make you any more or less right.


seriously stop posting and read the DJ Bible.

 

[Rubato]

this is what you get for thinking. Please stop.

the rest of your post reeks of someone who has thought everything out and has very little actual experience so i am not going to waste my time.

Better yet, stop trying to lead the blind when you have -3.25 -3.00 vision. You would not be here if you were getting ass constantly. Just because you write with flair doesn't make you any more or less right.

seriously stop posting and read the DJ Bible.

You're really good, that is exactly what my contacts prescription is for

I've read the DJ bible. I actually have the offline version of it printed out in a binder in my room, with another 2 binders for the Introduction and the Book of Pook (which I have not read yet).

I understand why you assume that a lot of people haven't read the DJ bible because a lot of people can't even read the newspaper, but I did read it (steps 1-7 and beyond) and can tell you about it if you would like (but I wouldn't want to waste your time). And it's not a magic book. There are no magic books out there.

I don't think people think enough. People are either not engaged enough or too afraid to think. And sometimes thinking leads to bad ideas. In fact, a lot of the time it does. But sometimes it leads to good ideas.

Be careful not to judge. I am definitely not ready to call up a urologist for a vasectomy because I feel like I've sired enough heirs to have sufficiently propagated my genes ad infinititum. But I'm not one of these mental masturbation pricks that sits at home all day and watches Deangelo and RSD videos over and over again but never gets the balls to go out and make something happen. I just happen to type fast and think faster than I type. I don't really feel like I should have to justify myself in anyway, but given the crap that gets posted on here, maybe I do.


I don't care if you disagree with what I have to say. That's fine and I respect it. As I continue to learn more and have more experiences, I might agree with you too. But if you're going to and spend the time to write something negative about what I wrote and about myself, please be courteous enough to give me a good reason why you think I'm wrong rather than redirecting me to a source I've already been through that's not extremely specific. If you had provided me a reason, I might have agreed with it

 

[Chamber36]

So you're saying the whole point of this forum is so that us guys can cloak all of our flaws in order to get women??

Whether people run away from their problems or solve them is up to them.

So you're going to stop trying to attract women because you wuldn't be true to yourself???

I'll agree Mytery is really fake, and he might be unhappy on the inside. But you don't know that for sure.

this forum helps to keep me on the straight and narrow path when it comes to women, and it's clarified a lot of my problems in the past.

 

[zekko]

A lot of people say that becoming a Venusian artist is replacing all faux selves with the self we have inside of ourselves that is authentic, but I don't really believe that. If it were true, we wouldn't focus so much on what women find sexually attractive

I think you've got a point Rubato. This site is totally focused on what women find attractive, and advises you to change yourself into that.

Basically, this forum tells you that your whole life you've been behaving one way because you thought that's what women wanted. And it tells you "okay, here's what they really want". And everyone immediately leaps to change themselves to fit that.

I also think you have a point when you say if you were truly self actualized, you wouldn't need women at all. Maybe that's why so many "spiritually enlightened" types like monks or whatever live lives of celibacy. But there's still the hormones to contend with.

 

[Rubato]

So you're saying the whole point of this forum is so that us guys can cloak all of our flaws in order to get women??

Whether people run away from their problems or solve them is up to them.

So you're going to stop trying to attract women because you wuldn't be true to yourself???

I'll agree Mytery is really fake, and he might be unhappy on the inside. But you don't know that for sure.

this forum helps to keep me on the straight and narrow path when it comes to women, and it's clarified a lot of my problems in the past.

To your first point, yes. Do you think a man who displayed all of his flaws would be as successful as one who concealed them? And to your second point, yes. Whatever people do is up to them. It is also up to them to deal with the consequences of their decisions (which in this case, is either getting women or not getting women). To your last point, no. I'm not suggesting we stop trying to attract women because then we wouldn't be true to ourselves. I made 2 distinct observations I'll summarize here:

And this is all an idea I've had. So I'm not yet willing to declare it as a gospel I believe in. I think it's a very good idea for men to work through their issues and problems. And doing so will usually improve their game. What I am suggesting is that "the game" really is a game.

There's a certain strategy people employ to win a game like monopoly, risk, or balderdash. If you want to win one of these games, you have to take a moment to assess how the game works and play it from a compatible frame. The same, I think, is true of women. Women choose, men attract them. So if we want to be chosen, we've got to do a good job of attracting, which may require a guise, however subtle or non-subtle.

My point about inner game was meant to suggest that it doesn't matter how many of our "issues" we work through, we're still going to want women. No matter how much we perfect our inner game, how much we work on ourselves, we're still going to want women. And if we do, that means there is something that transcends our selves that we require. That something is a woman.

 

[Chamber36]

1. There's no point to concealing your flaws, because they remain. They will always gnaw away at your confidence. Therefore flaws are to be abolished.

2. Any guise, subtle or non-subtle, will end up biting you in the ass. You can't fool women for long. They're like dogs, they can sense your emotions.

It looks like you're putting women on a pedestal man. But listen, men and women were created as ONE. It's like bob marley said: every man needs a woman, and every woman needs a man.

Even if you can build a space ship by yourself, you are going to need a woman to help you realise that that space ship is nothing more but a piece of metal.

But if you have only a woman, and no abiliity to make a space ship, you aren't going to see the beauty of yourself as a man because you take your identity from your accomplishments with women.

Listen to Bruce Lee

I was going to say earlier that women aren't to be intellectualised or rationlised, but FELT. So there you have it.

Don't think: Feeeeeel.

 

[Rubato]

1. There's no point to concealing your flaws, because they remain. They will always gnaw away at your confidence. Therefore flaws are to be abolished.

2. Any guise, subtle or non-subtle, will end up biting you in the ass. You can't fool women for long. They're like dogs, they can sense your emotions.

It looks like you're putting women on a pedestal man. But listen, men and women were created as ONE. It's like bob marley said: every man needs a woman, and every woman needs a man.

Even if you can build a space ship by yourself, you are going to need a woman to help you realise that that space ship is nothing more but a piece of metal.

But if you have only a woman, and no abiliity to make a space ship, you aren't going to see the beauty of yourself as a man because you take your identity from your accomplishments with women.

Listen to Bruce Lee

I was going to say earlier that women aren't to be intellectualised or rationlised, but FELT. So there you have it.

Don't think: Feeeeeel.

I am a strong believer in the fake it till you make it ideal. Especially if all you're after is sex. A lot of people make it sound like women have such refined senses that all it takes is just a single particle of self doubt or incongruence in a man to destroy everything with the woman. And I don't believe that. She's human just like we are human. And while she definitely does in generally have much highly attuned senses for detecting BS than men do, it's not a perfect meter. And some guys can be very good actors for a long time. You're probably right that if you're looking at things from a relational perspective rather than a purely sexual perspective, a guise will not work in perpetuity. And to men who would pursue a woman for a relationship under a self guise, I would ask them what the hell they are doing. Why be interested in a woman who has no interest in the real you?

That being said, I categorically agree with you that men need to fix their issues, whatever they are. And notice, I said "men fix" rather than someone or something else fix it or them. If a man knows he has a problem and chooses not to fix it, I would question whether he is really a man and not just a boy with an older body.

I don't think I'm putting women up on a pedestal either. They're not the boardwalk and parkplace spots on the board of Monopoly. If they're analogous to anything on a Monopoly board, they're every single property you have the opportunity to attract according to their respective price (and let's assume, you're playing the game by yourself to avoid the trap of landing on someone else's space that can't be bought).

As I said before, the sex's do need each other. Bob Marley and yourself are both right. I may have to think about your spaceship analogy because I certainly agree with the 2nd part, but I don't think I agree with part 1. If a man can't build something as magnificent as a spaceship and appreciate it as more than just a "hunk of metal" by himself, I doubt he's really capable of building a spaceship in the first place. A good illustration of this is of all places found in Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugged in the character of Hank Rearton. He spent his entire life in absentia from women while he toiled over the creation of Rearton metal. And once he finally came up with it and developed it, the most superb construction material available to the world, he was totally thrilled to pieces and skipped all of his way home. He didn't start to develop a meaningful relationship with a woman until AFTER he made his discovery. His wife, with whom he had a very sterile relationship with, did nothing more than annoy the hell out of him while he worked.

I think saying you need a woman in order to recognize the degree of accomplishment in your life is placing her on a very tall pedestal. I write music. And when I write a good song, I am very happy, I get a thrill from it that's better than taking a hit of speed or shooting up an opiate (it's true, I've made some bad decisions in my past). If you can't appreciate real personal accomplishment on your own, I think you've got a problem.

Now all that being said. I loved the Bruce Lee clip. I would let that guy hit me every day if the hits kept being accompanied by such great advice. I know women don't think logically about their decisions in general. But I like figuring things out. And obviously I'm not going to deal with a woman on a logical level because it doesn't freaking work. But I can use logic, reasoning, and other factors to help determine a strategy for how to deal with them. Strategy is interesting.... it represents a departure from what we would normally do. If it was what we would do anyways, why would we have a special term for it?

Off the field, I think logic is great. But I don't know why this has to be such a binary thing. We can't we think and feel?

Regardless, you are right about feeling. Since we don't have the tools to distill human behavior in to a box at this point, logic will only take you so far. Then it's time to feel.

 

[Chamber36]

the first part of my spaceship analogy is to show you that women can keep you grounded. No matter how hard you worked or how fast you made your piece of metal, it's still a piece of metal.


Read this: dapook.blogspot.com

 

[Atom Smasher]

The formula can be simplified.

"N" perceived power attracts "N" perceived beauty.
N+1 attracts N+2
N+3, N+3 and so on

The currency is perceived power vs. perceived beauty (or hotness) and like quantities attract like.

Women's beauty is 80 to 90% artificial. We've all seen the "stars without makeup" websites. A woman purchases her beauty over the counter, and watches her weight. If she does that, she is in the upper tier.

Likewise, a man must amass a veneer of power. Of course, ideally he must amass real power, but in the process he must apply a veneer in order to cover the flaws while he's working on them.

An air of confidence, good body language, good hygiene and stylish clothing are the currency of the day.

It used to be that women valued the character of a man and his looks were fairly incidental. It is not that way anymore. Women have been brainwashed by 40 years of TV and magazines to value the externals. That is our reality.

Women are woefully shallow, artificial creatures. There is no denying it. Everything about them is false from their appearance to their values. Therefore it is exceedingly difficult for a man of character to find a woman of character.

Good looks are inversely proportional to quality of character. The fatties and uglies are the ones with character because they lack the beauty factor (which serves as a crutch) .

Hear me, men...
We must not endeavor to conform to women's ridiculous notions of the hour. We must instead work and toil to become our best selves. Not something contrived or artificial, but rather our highest selves.

Secondly, we must en masse stop conforming and developing ourselves into dancing monkeys so they will like us. We are men. We are supposed to call the shots and define "how it is".

We must train women en masse that their insane behavior will no longer be tolerated. Women are children, emotionally. They act like children and see the world as children, because they are in fact children. Who in their right mind allows children to call the shots and run the show?

We as men must re-take the societal reins and get things back in order. It is possible simply because nature ALWAYS wins. We are currently in a highly contrived social climate. But women are becoming unglued and literally gowing more and more insane because they are trying to be that which they are not. We are approaching critical mass, and it is up to us enlightened men to pick up the mantle and run with it. We are to call the shots, not women.

It starts with YOU. Learn all you can, develop yourself into the best YOU you can be. Fake it till you make it (that's the veneer I talked about). Spend your life achieving and storing real power (social skills, money, leadership positions, etc.). "Assume a virtue if you have it not." WS

Then we will be able to take back the roles that nature has designed us for. Do not EVER accept bratty behavior from women, nor conform to the silly expectations that their head-hamster generates.

Living to impress women is a dissipation of a man's essence. It is devoid of value. A woman exists solely as an adjunct to your life, and she is not a necessity. A basic tenet of life is that we teach others how to treat us. This applies on the personal level and also on a macro level. Women behave the way they do because we tolerate and reward them for it. We do it because we fear rejection. Extrapolate that out to politicians who want to keep their jobs and female voters, and you will see the basis for the fact that the children are running what should be an adult-run (male-run) world.

Charges of misogony will be summarily ignored. I speak the truth. Can you take it?

 

[cola]

Over thought, over analyzed. **** really isnt as deep as you try to make it.


Meet a chick
She like you
She ****s you.

@ atom smasher
a real gem of a woman exists that isnt so superficial.
She is pretty and values your inside character as much as out ..
She is just rare. But if she was common she would have no value so I like it that way.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Yes, I'm purposely being a little strong in my message. There are a tiny percentage of quality women out there, but the problem is that the percentage is woefully small. Fortunate is the man who finds a good one because of that rarity.

 

[Rubato]

Hear me, men...
We must not endeavor to conform to women's ridiculous notions of the hour. We must instead work and toil to become our best selves. Not something contrived or artificial, but rather our highest selves.

Secondly, we must en masse stop conforming and developing ourselves into dancing monkeys so they will like us. We are men. We are supposed to call the shots and define "how it is".

We must train women en masse that their insane behavior will no longer be tolerated. Women are children, emotionally. They act like children and see the world as children, because they are in fact children. Who in their right mind allows children to call the shots and run the show?

We as men must re-take the societal reins and get things back in order. It is possible simply because nature ALWAYS wins. We are currently in a highly contrived social climate. But women are becoming unglued and literally gowing more and more insane because they are trying to be that which they are not. We are approaching critical mass, and it is up to us enlightened men to pick up the mantle and run with it. We are to call the shots, not women.

It starts with YOU. Learn all you can, develop yourself into the best YOU you can be. Fake it till you make it (that's the veneer I talked about). Spend your life achieving and storing real power (social skills, money, leadership positions, etc.). "Assume a virtue if you have it not." WS

Then we will be able to take back the roles that nature has designed us for. Do not EVER accept bratty behavior from women, nor conform to the silly expectations that their head-hamster generates.

Living to impress women is a dissipation of a man's essence. It is devoid of value. A woman exists solely as an adjunct to your life, and she is not a necessity. A basic tenet of life is that we teach others how to treat us. This applies on the personal level and also on a macro level. Women behave the way they do because we tolerate and reward them for it. We do it because we fear rejection. Extrapolate that out to politicians who want to keep their jobs and female voters, and you will see the basis for the fact that the children are running what should be an adult-run (male-run) world.

Charges of misogony will be summarily ignored. I speak the truth. Can you take it?

This.

I reread what I had originally posted the other night and realize I thought I was saying something than what I actually said. So I apologize for that. It all initially came from the thought I had that Zekko so eloquently summarized. If we really have all that we need inside of us, why do we give a sh$t about women? That was a question I posed to myself and feel like at this juncture, have to answer by saying we don't really have all that we need inside of ourselves, or don't as long as we're driven to pursue women. I am skeptical we can defeat the evolutionary or creative urges programmed in to us to want women. But that's not the point.

It seems like the point causing the controversy here isn't that. It was what I said about men molding themselves to what a woman really wants. And I don't agree with it as I wrote it.

What I meant to say is along the lines of what Atom Smasher is in total brilliance actually wrote. People start to freak out whenever someone makes a generalization, but I really believe there are qualities inherent in real masculinity that women will be drawn to whether or not they realize it or accept it. And that's where my mimic octopus video came from, imploring that we ought to fake it till we make it. While we're faking it, I would for sure say we're engaged in a guise (by definition) and a manipulation. But the goal should be for that guise to ultimately reform itself in to something real, the shedding of the faux self in favor of the real self, a self which if it is masculine, will attract women.

So, again, I apologize for my error. Maybe I shouldn't write when I'm so tired.