The October Man Sequence -- Complex Tricks vs. Fundamentals

[Spirit Fingers]

Yes, that’s right. I’m finally about to give away the secret of the famous October Man Sequence to the world!

Here it is: There is no ****ing October Man Sequence. Or, if there is, it’s definitely not worth knowing.

In case you didn’t know, it’s touted in the Game as a super-secret, powerful NLP ‘pattern’ that will magically make a woman incredibly attracted to you…in 15 minutes. Sounds like BS, right? Yet, it’s a question that people ask me surprisingly often in email and live coaching. What is the October Man Sequence? Do you have access to is? Can I learn it?

Not that there’s anything wrong with wanting to improve, far from it. But, the fame of the October Man Sequence does show the wrongheaded way that many guys are trying to improve.

When we encounter failure, the natural response is always to look for a “trick” or quick fix to the problem. This problem is especially pronounced in guys that are highly intelligent. They think, OK, how can I FIGURE OUT how to solve this problem? I must need to LEARN something new in order to solve it!

The problem is, in this game of attracting women, there are many problems that can’t be figured out. Most of the time problems arise from breakdowns in fundamentals.

Here’s an analogy: I fight mixed martial arts (MMA). When a guy loses a fight, many times his reaction is something like “If I only knew the spinning reverse flying death scissors move, I would have won! I should learn it right now!”

A bad coach will teach him the spinning reverse flying death scissors move, and the dude will walk away happy because he *thinks* he’s solved the problem. Actually though, the move did him no good and he continues to lose.

A good coach will recognize this natural human impulse to try and figure out our shortcomings and attribute them to some technique we don’t know. He’ll then tell his student the real reason why he lost — the other guy was bigger, faster, stronger, and did the basics better. In short, he had his FUNDAMENTALS down better.

Typically, the student doesn’t want to hear this. He’s done these stupid fundamentals a hundred times, and he thinks that he has them down. But, although he might of mastered them on an intellectual level, it takes much more than a hundred times of doing them to really master them. It takes thousands of times.

The only thing that will really help him is to drill those simple fundamentals over and over again until he REALLY masters them.

In pickup, it’s much the same way. Guys attribute failure to the lack of knowledge of advanced techniques, but that’s rarely the case. Most of the time, it’s the lack of real mastery of fundamentals.

Style and image, lack of hesitation, vibing, kino, being social and open, sexual presence, logistics. These are the basics that the naturals that are getting laid like rockstars are using.

Woodhaven, whose game has been very influential on my own, once told me something that I never forgot. He said, the difference between a master and a novice isn’t that the master’s knowledge of advanced technques. While he does know these techniques, for the most part the master uses the exact same basic stuff as the beginner. What separates them is only that the master does the basics incredibly well.

So, if you’re looking to improve your dating life, don’t search for super secret flying scissors moves or October Man Sequences. Look for the BASICS that EVERYONE IS DOING. Do them better than everyone else by endless repetition and tiny incremental improvements on your basic technique. A meathead’s style of seduction, requiring no intelligence? Perhaps. But then again, it’s not a coincidence that intelligent guys typically don’t get laid.



-Dan

 

[Ares III]

Excellent post. This is something that most of us lose sight of over time.

 

[izza]

Excellent post. This is something that most of us lose sight of over time.

Sweeet.

I

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...Woodhaven, whose game has been very influential on my own, once told me something that I never forgot. He said, the difference between a master and a novice isn’t that the master’s knowledge of advanced technques. While he does know these techniques, for the most part the master uses the exact same basic stuff as the beginner. What separates them is only that the master does the basics incredibly well....

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[Holland]

Amen to that, brother

 

[April_Infinite]

Good stuff, I just wish the basic would be learned a bit faster, by the time I'm done internalizing this stuff, I'll be past my prime T . T

 

[legolas]

The October Man is a story of how Milton Erickson hypnotized this girl, a patient of his, who had been raised by nuns and never taught anything about how to be a mother. He takes her in trance through various experiences in her life, and makes appearences in her subconscious as the "October Man" basically giving her advice at various points and teaching her about life. You've to be fairly well skilled as a hypnotist to even remotely pull this off.

 

[izza]

Right now, this site is about finding ways to make getting women easier. That seems intuitively correct, but I think it's a destructive way of thinking. Getting women, even attractive women, is already easy, for everybody. That's the problem.

If someone had said that to me a year ago, I definitely wouldn't have believed him. It took me a while to understand just how easy and simple getting great women is. That's what's so scary about it, is that we are inundated and overloaded with opportunity every single day.

This site should be about how to make getting women harder, not easier. By that I don't mean this site should be about being more selective, but challenging each and every one of us to attract people (not just women) in more and more challenging situations. It should be about pushing us to have the personality skills to overcome obstacles, to realize that who we really are is something so blindingly beautiful, when we have the courage to show it, that it can overcome many obstacles, with a large percentage of people.

For me, seduction isn't about complex tricks vs. fundamentals. Both of those things aim to make getting women easier. This is a misunderstanding, because getting women is already easy. It's like approaching, it's really simple, we just choose not to do it.

If you're lifting weights, and it's way too easy and you say "i'm bored." The best solution isn't to take off some more weight.

Seduction for me, for all of us I think, is the most fun when it demands the best of us to shine. Meeting women is a just about the fun of meeting women now, I don't even worry about the next step. At the time, I do it for the conversation. I challenge myself by revealing the most embarrassing things about me, all the things that we supposedly can't say (I'm afraid of spiders and heights), I say them just to challenge myself.

For me, learning to seduce women is all about making the best of myself come out. It won't come out using tricks and fundamentals and ways of making dating easier. When I use these things, sometimes it "works" but I am left with a girl who I don't want, no matter how hot she is. I just feel disgusted with myself, and with her for "falling" for these tricks and being so horny and stupid.

When I go out with a silly hat and a torn tee and I pick up a girl, I know it's because I'm an attractive PERSON. And it forces the best in me to shine through. This is a way better and faster way to success, at least for the goals I've set for myself. Maybe yours are different.

Izza

 

[Spirit Fingers]

izza -- of course you can pick up women by just "making it challenging" NOW. Everyone who has become a natural, or just is a natural, can do that.

However, to guys who haven't learned how to pick up women YET, this advice is totally useless. Feel-good, vague advice like "just have fun" and "be an attractive person" won't help a guy who can't attract women right now at all. Don't get me wrong -- you should definitely have fun, etc. when you're picking up women. And for a guy who is a natural, this is all you need to do. But for a guy who is not already, there is more than that you need to learn.

Same goes for sex. Guys who are already good in bed will often give the advice that works for THEM like "just be natural" or "just rock her world man." And while this advice is great is you already know what you're doing, if you don't it's completely useless. You have to break it down a little more, and show a guy HOW to rock her world, and HOW to be natural. Once this is learned, it becomes internalized and the guy doesn't have to think about it anymore. THEN he can "just be natural," but until then he needs to undergo a conscious learning process.

Dan

 

[izza]

izza -- of course you can pick up women by just "making it challenging" NOW. Everyone who has become a natural, or just is a natural, can do that.

However, to guys who haven't learned how to pick up women YET, this advice is totally useless. Feel-good, vague advice like "just have fun" and "be an attractive person" won't help a guy who can't attract women right now at all. Don't get me wrong -- you should definitely have fun, etc. when you're picking up women. And for a guy who is a natural, this is all you need to do. But for a guy who is not already, there is more than that you need to learn.

Same goes for sex. Guys who are already good in bed will often give the advice that works for THEM like "just be natural" or "just rock her world man." And while this advice is great is you already know what you're doing, if you don't it's completely useless. You have to break it down a little more, and show a guy HOW to rock her world, and HOW to be natural. Once this is learned, it becomes internalized and the guy doesn't have to think about it anymore. THEN he can "just be natural," but until then he needs to undergo a conscious learning process.

Dan

Hi Dan,

Thanks for getting back to me. I think you'll agree that calling what I'm saying "totally useless" for those who are not "naturals" is not true. I trust you when you say that "dressing down" isn't what would have helped you. Maybe it's not what would have helped people you know. I'm not claiming, as fools claim, that their way is some sort of Biblical path.

I don't think I disagree with much of what you said in your last post. Just telling someone, "just have fun with it" is pretty useless... at least as it is usually stated. I've finally realized a much more useful and concrete way of stating this, but that is another subject. But what I'm saying isn't "just have fun." I'm saying something different and more concrete. I'm saying "challenge yourself." By that I mean

-dress down,
-say embarrassing things about yourself that are on your mind
-dress embarrassingly (I am so excited to test-drive this new Boba Fett t-shirt in the field - and old chess team shirts!)
-Wear clothes that make you wear fat.
-Enjoy food and gain weight

Now let's take a look at why I believe this "challenge yourself" approach would help the hapless.

The first thing you have to know about me is that I am not a natural. At all. I came to this board like everyone else, heart-broken, sad, and clueless. Everyone on this board believes, as you do, that success with women is a skill. And so it is. From the exterior, social skill is suaveness and eloquence, or humility and humor.

But it has been long observed, and I think you'll agree, that those who try to mimic exterior traits - confidence, happiness, flirtatiousness - fail. Those who imitate the root causes - a positive way of thinking - succeed.

I'm saying this is because I view this idea of fundamentals as potentially misleading. We say practice these exterior traits, the flowers, until they are natural. That is practicing fundamentals according to most people here. I don't know what you call fundamentals. I do know that most people around here call fundamentals the three second rule, c+f, good story telling, appearing confident.

I think I'm bringing a far better way to find the root characteristics of confidence. The reason why we must challenge ourselves is because the most interesting and attractive parts of ourselves feel like a disadvantage. Let's read that again, because this is a really important point.

The most interesting and attractive parts of ourselves feel like a disadvantage.

These are the most human parts, the emotions, uniqueness, even a touch of vulnerability. The parts of ourselves that embarrass us.

Have you ever met a girl who was drop dead gorgeous but didn't know it? There are millions of them all over the place. You can spot them in an instant too, because they are the ones wearing the green goop eye shadow, the bright lipstick, the mask of foundation. They wear so much makeup that they end by *hiding* their natural beauty.

The irony, of course, is that if these chicks would just drop the makeup they would be gorgeous. Now, just put on a tad of mascara, and men would follow her in a Congo line.

A woman wearing too much makeup is a great metaphor for the personality of most guys. That is a staggering percentage of the hundreds of men I know personally and of course the posts I read on this board. If they would stop trying to be as "confident," as fake and as perfect as "that guy", if they would give up imitating the flowers and find their roots, they would charm the world. But they hide behind the mask that is supposed to make them attractive. They are perpetually single. In fact, they are perpetually alone. I've been there; I'm still there to some degree.

So if the problem is that guys are not showing who they really are, what's the solution?

Well the solution you're proposing is "fundamentals." Men must learn the fundamentals of interaction, conversation, kissing, sex etc. I don't disagree with this. I only disagree with what most people view as fundamentals. You didn't say what you view as fundamentals, so I can't give your perspective on this. I'm curious, so do tell.

All I know for sure is that the best things about ourselves seem like a disadvantage. The best way to success for the unnatural is to accept the challenge of challenging themselves. This is the fastest way to success.

What do I mean by challenging themselves. Again, I mean we must focus on getting women "despite" our weaknesses. For instance, in my case I simply do not care to dress in any attempt to impress anyone. So I go out with torn pants, a crappy t-shirt. I tell women that I meet that my parents are getting divorced, that I'm upset with my best friend. I tell them it feels like I don't have a real conversation with anyone.

In a sense, I am learning the "fundamentals" of being honest but attractive. In any case, those are the only fundamentals I care to learn. It is the highest art in pickup. It is the art we all aspire to if we are here - we aim to improve ourselves and also to have meaningful relationships based on who we are.

Now I understand that a lot of people will react by saying "why not just IMPROVE the way you dress. Isn't this a form of laziness?"

Believe me, I am all about self-improvement. It is my passion. But I care far more to work out my social muscles. Dressing like crap is an excellent barbell. None better. I care to improve my capacity to pick up women I like while looking like dirt. I care to improve my ability to package my life attractively. Now those are fundamentals. It is easy to connect with a girl with this sort of honest expression. Once that connection is there, you are on your way to wherever you want the road to go.

Honestly, though, I think my suggestion of challenging yourself is more useful for newbies. We should always seek to be closer to ourselves not farther away. And being ourselves always feels like a disadvantage. Which is why, ironically, in making things seemingly more difficult for ourselves, I find we actually make them easier.

Izza

 

[spesmilitis]

10/10

I can tell that you are not only successful with women, but also successful in everything you pursue.

 

[izza]

Thank you

 

[Bonez]

Is vincent dicarlo woodhaven?

Having I been using his drills. I remember when he came up with the idea of "natural game" as a solution for the guys who are addicted to routines... he's a smart guy to think of that.