The New Black???

[taiyuu_otoko]

Black Progress

Somehow, I don't think you could find a similar one for gay progress.

 

[FairShake]

Why does there have to be competition over who has it the worst? Sit back for a second and take that in. When did it become cool to brag about how your people have it the worst? Blacks and Gays both have had it pretty bad. You'd think that a board of socialization would talk about the similiarities rather than arguing about the differences. Plus:

Gary Cooper, there was an American. The strong, silent type. He did what he had to do. ... And did he complain? Did he say, 'Oh, I come from this poor Texas Irish illiterate background or whatever the ****, so leave me the **** out of it, because my people got ****ed over?"

 

[Captain Harlock]

Black Progress

Somehow, I don't think you could find a similar one for gay progress.

All nice and well, but why do blacks always have to take credit for Obama? His black father didn't even raise him.

 

[speakeasy]

Coming out for being gay would have been a big issue a couple of decades ago and would probably result in the same things you have just said about blacks. Why shouldn't they be able to compare their struggle for acceptance in society with yours? how is it an insult? Because of statistics?

People who were discovered to be gay a couple decades ago weren't allowed to vote? Has there ever been a gay suffrage movement? A gay abolition movement? Gimme a break dude.

 

[speakeasy]

Why does there have to be competition over who has it the worst? Sit back for a second and take that in. When did it become cool to brag about how your people have it the worst?

It only became such when gays started trying to compare their push for gay marriage to the black civil rights struggle. It was gays who initiated the comparison.

 

[ketostix]

It only became such when gays started trying to compare their push for gay marriage to the black civil rights struggle. It was gays who initiated the comparison.

It is the same thing. It's preferential group treatment justified by mostly exaggerated claims of past and present discrimination. Gays are one of the wealthiest groups. Yeah they're really discriminated against.

Civil rights, feminism and the gay movement are all about preferential group treatment and that's all there is to it. The mentality is the same and the justification for it is the same although to different degrees, but it's not a justification to begin with. It's the mentality of, despite a persons actions, conduct or merit he must succeed because if he doesn't then it must be because of "discrimination" against members of his group. They use the same tactics, e.g., "you're not critical of gays because of their behavior, your just homophobic!", and "you're not critical of blacks because of many of their behavior, it's because of their skin color!" These groups just don't want to be held accountable for their individual behavior or merit. In order to have preferential treatment for one group necessitates sacrificing the rights and opportunities of another. You know this, that's why you don't want any other group to received preferential treatment.

 

[speakeasy]

It is the same thing. It's preferential group treatment justified by mostly exaggerated claims of past and present discrimination. Gays are one of the wealthiest groups. Yeah they're really discriminated against.

Civil rights, feminism and the gay movement are all about preferential group treatment and that's all there is to it. The mentality is the same and the justification for it is the same although to different degrees, but it's not a justification to begin with. It's the mentality of, despite a persons actions, conduct or merit he must succeed because if he doesn't then it must be because of "discrimination" against members of his group. They use the same tactics, e.g., "you're not critical of gays because of their behavior, your just homophobic!", and "you're not critical of blacks because of many of their behavior, it's because of their skin color!" These groups just don't want to be held accountable for their individual behavior or merit. In order to have preferential treatment for one group necessitates sacrificing the rights and opportunities of another. You know this, that's why you don't want any other group to received preferential treatment.

Excuse me? Where have I said that I advocate "preferential treatment" of one race over another? Don't f*cking put words in my mouth.

I hope you are not so ignorant as to not acknowledge that your own group has gotten preferential treatment through the entire history of the country by default. I hope you have always been against that as well.

 

[ketostix]

Excuse me? Where have I said that I advocate "preferential treatment" of one race over another? Don't f*cking put words in my mouth.

That's what the civil rights movement essentially is. Of course you're not going to say it is. That's just it, you are painting it as something it's really not. You're so radical about promoting your race it's ridiculous.

I hope you are not so ignorant as to not acknowledge that your own group has gotten preferential treatment through the entire history of the country by default. I hope you have always been against that as well.

Actually not. You want to go way back in the past and yeah there was slaves and freemen in this country. But let me you tell you it was never preferential treatment for a whole group like we've had for groups in the last 40-50 years and on the grand scale affecting millions today. It was a hard scrabble, and uneducated life for may white people. It may not have been slavery but it sure wasn't much better for many white people and it sure wasn't preferential treatment of today. But if you want to call it preferential treatment and that it was wrong then, that makes it wrong today too.

 

[speakeasy]

That's what the civil rights movement essentially is. Of course you're not going to say it is. That's just it, you are painting it as something it's really not. You're so radical about promoting your race it's ridiculous.

Wow, giving people the right to vote, is "preferential treatment". Dude, I don't know where you got your education, but you need to ask for a refund.

Actually not. You want to go way back in the past and yeah there was slaves and freemen in this country. But let me you tell you it was never preferential treatment for a whole group like we've had for groups in the last 40-50 years and on the grand scale affecting millions today. It was a hard scrabble, and uneducated life for may white people. It may not have been slavery but it sure wasn't much better for many white people and it sure wasn't preferential treatment of today. But if you want to call it preferential treatment and that it was wrong then, that makes it wrong today too.

Yeah, poor, poor white folks, they've always had it SOOOO bad in this country! :crackup:

 

[ketostix]

Wow, giving people the right to vote, is "preferential treatment". Dude, I don't know where you got your education, but you need to ask for a refund.

I'm talking about Affirmative Action, quotas, preferential college admission and funding, etc. You like to try to label your opposition as "ignorant" and uneducated but you are the one playing dumb.

Yeah, poor, poor white folks, they've always had it SOOOO bad in this country! :crackup:

I'm not surprised at all that you don't know anything about many whites hardships past and present.

 

[oakraiderz2]

You just made up a position he didn't espouse. He said he wanted equality, not preferential treatment.

Equality means equality. Not a little extra for warm and fuzzies to "atone" for a false guilt complex. My ancestors were persecuted far worse than the blacks, further, they were the first to campaign against slavery in America. Much later in our history, my grandmother as a teenager visited the deep south in the 30's to live with a black family and help them. That was unheard of in the day. Can you imagine letting your teenage daughter do that? I won't take guilt crap from anyone on behalf of some "atonement" ideology. Everyone has a victim in their past, everyone has a history. It just depends how far back you dig.

Do we have any Irish or Jews in the crowd? Eh?

I said what i said because of his post in other threads. I believe that to him, if a minority is treated the same as he is, theyre getting preferential treatment. And i will assume, he doesnt want equality...maybe segregation between whites and everyone else.

 

[oakraiderz2]

I'm talking about Affirmative Action, quotas, preferential college admission and funding, etc. You like to try to label your opposition as "ignorant" and uneducated but you are the one playing dumb.






I'm not surprised at all that you don't know anything about many whites hardships past and present.

How are civil rights about preferential treatment??? So youre telling me being a slave, having segregated bathrooms/restuarants/schools, not being allowed to vote, and getting assulted by cops is something black people should have to go through? Ever heard of the tuskegee experiment? They were looking at black males with syphillis to see the effects. They discovered a CURE and didnt give it to them or tell them about it. Youre telling me not having to go through that is preferential treatment?

Go ahead and say that you dont think blacks or minorities deserve anything the ALL MIGHTY WHITE MALE is exposed to.

 

[Luthor Rex]

How are civil rights about preferential treatment???

He specifically pointed out how blacks are given more points in the admissions process for college because they are black. Which is, by definition, preferential treatment. Affirmative Action is NOT civil rights. Actual equality would mean that no one would have an advantage based on their race, but the fact is that blacks clearly do.

You don't deserve to be treated preferentially because of your skin color.

 

[speakeasy]

He specifically pointed out how blacks are given more points in the admissions process for college because they are black.

That's an extremely shallow declaration of what affirmative action is. First off, the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action have been WHITES, not blacks. Yes you heard me right. White women have benefited from affirmative action in the workplace more than black people as a whole have given that there are more white females in the country by a large margin than there are both black males and black female.

There are other types of affirmative action that have nothing to do with race, sex or class. For example, I was watching on the news yesterday a program they have for wounded veterans that places them in government office jobs. That's a form of affirmative action since I am in effect being discriminated against in for positions since I'm not a part of that group. There are affirmative action policies that give preference to people with disabilities.

I think wikipedia has a good writeup on what AA is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action and it's not so simplistic as some try to say. The angry white male(like some in this forum) will always try to caricature it as a bunch of unqualified blacks getting jobs, while the white male is somehow the victim. Most people that support affirmative action don't believe in lowering standards. There's a difference between quotas and affirmative action. Not all affirmative action programs have quotas. But if you have a company that's 97% white and two engineers apply, one a black man and one a white man, and both are qualified, then the black guy would get the job. Why not? The company is already lily white.

But back to the subject of homosexuality, there should definitely be no affirmative action for gays since #1, homosexuality is a behavior, not a physical attribute #2, nobody on an interview asks who you sleep with and #3 nobody has proven to what extend homosexuality is a choice or inborn trait. Twin studies suggest that it's right down the middle and environmnet plays as much a role as genes. I don't believe people should have "minority status" based on who they f*ck at night. That's ridiculous.

Addendum--

The perfect example of white affirmative action in action is Sarah Palin. Is there anyone alive that could look me in the eye with a straight face and tell me that Sarah Palin wasn't an affirmative action pick? Now the same conservatives who scream about Affirmative Action for blacks were thrilled when this grossly under-qualified white woman was made the VP pick, given that there were males who were much better for the slot. If Sarah Palin were not a women, she would not have been chosen. We all know that's true if we're honest with ourselves. But when republicans practiced their own form of Affirmative Action, they all all talked about how great it was that a woman was being given a chance. Such hypocrites.

 

[ketostix]

That's an extremely shallow declaration of what affirmative action is. First off, the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action have been WHITES, not blacks. Yes you heard me right. White women have benefited from affirmative action in the workplace more than black people as a whole have given that there are more white females in the country by a large margin than there are both black males and black female.

There are other types of affirmative action that have nothing to do with race, sex or class. For example, I was watching on the news yesterday a program they have for wounded veterans that places them in government office jobs. That's a form of affirmative action since I am in effect being discriminated against in for positions since I'm not a part of that group. There are affirmative action policies that give preference to people with disabilities.

I think wikipedia has a good writeup on what AA is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action and it's not so simplistic as some try to say. The angry white male(like some in this forum) will always try to caricature it as a bunch of unqualified blacks getting jobs, while the white male is somehow the victim. Most people that support affirmative action don't believe in lowering standards. There's a difference between quotas and affirmative action. Not all affirmative action programs have quotas. But if you have a company that's 97% white and two engineers apply, one a black man and one a white man, and both are qualified, then the black guy would get the job. Why not? The company is already lily white.

But back to the subject of homosexuality, there should definitely be no affirmative action for gays since #1, homosexuality is a behavior, not a physical attribute #2, nobody on an interview asks who you sleep with and #3 nobody has proven to what extend homosexuality is a choice or inborn trait. Twin studies suggest that it's right down the middle and environmnet plays as much a role as genes. I don't believe people should have "minority status" based on who they f*ck at night. That's ridiculous.

First off, AA for women is wrong just like it is for black people or for gays, so there's no distinction. But I get you, veterans (of any race) who lost their physical/mental health and well being serving the country, people with disabilities (of any race or gender) who are trying to make it and do need a hand up, and any other group shouldn't get preferential treatment, just black people. Or at least you are trying to draw an equivalency between preference for a disability or veteran status to preference for ethnicity. I know what AA is, it means not only do you lower the standards for someone because of their group identity, but by law you have to give them the beanies (the college slot,the job etc) so they'll be "represented" irrespective of qualifications or merit.

If an able bodied black person wants equality then they should have to qualify and compete fairly against all their competitors like every white male must do, well actually for wms they are competing amongst other white males for what's left after AA. There's nothing more racist than AA based on race.

Preferential treatment solely based on race is by definition racist. Speakeasy you are a racist in my book.

 

[snackwitch]

Blacks and other "minorities" think it's just great when they get preferential treatment, but when another group gets it too then they see the error in it and it's not so wonderful. Now you get a little taste of how it feels to be in the modern white males shoes and you don't like it so much . The distant past is no justification for preferential treatment in the present and future. And just like with the civil rights movement and feminism, the gay movement is not about fair and equal treatment but preferential group treatment.

I think you have the wrong forum buddy.. Why don't you go on to some Stormfront websites or some other some other "pro-America" but covert white supremacy circle jerks?

 

[ketostix]

I think you have the wrong forum buddy.. Why don't you go on to some Stormfront websites or some other some other "pro-America" but covert white supremacy circle jerks?

When I see you post your little snooty reply to the black supremists here, then you might have a point. Being against things like AA based on race and gender has nothing to do with white supremacy jackass.

 

[KontrollerX]

Blacks and other "minorities" think it's just great when they get preferential treatment, but when another group gets it too then they see the error in it and it's not so wonderful. Now you get a little taste of how it feels to be in the modern white males shoes and you don't like it so much . The distant past is no justification for preferential treatment in the present and future. And just like with the civil rights movement and feminism, the gay movement is not about fair and equal treatment but preferential group treatment.

Agreed and I hope that racist anti white gang supporting Sotomayor doesn't get approved.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Although they were both entertaining movies, I much more enjoyed Denzel Washington in "Malcolm X" than I did Sean Penn in "Harvey Milk."

 

[FairShake]

It only became such when gays started trying to compare their push for gay marriage to the black civil rights struggle. It was gays who initiated the comparison.

They mentioned it as a struggle for civil rights and for equality. In that way it is very much the same. Nobody ever compared the amount of suffering as the same. THAT is all Black folks. Not that gays don't have racism running in their community because they do, but this is misplaced anger in my opinion.

Maybe because my mother is from Ireland and the Irish internalize their struggle as the most oppressed people ever (despite being pretty well off today) but I really wish people would step out of their little clubhouses and show some support to other people being ****ed over for once. Story of life, one down-in-the-dumps group dumps on another to what? It doesn't even gain favor anymore. All it does is help someone feel superior.