the negative effect of not being relaxed having nervous energy, question for Jariel

[drift king]

i know a big part of this seduction stuff is maintaining a confident relaxed frame during a date so they dont pick up the sense of nerves which is an attraction killer.

i have a lot of nervous energy and sometimes i'm relaxed and calm but i keep shaking my legs under the table without realizing it on dates and they take it as a sign of weakness and nerves.

i know Jariel said he suffers from fidgeting too, after you reach date 2 or 3 do you think this might be counter acting all of the good work you put in?

i'm starting to wonder why i fail a lot on date 3's if i haven't selpt with them already on date 2. usually once i've slept with them it's plain sailing but i dont know if it's cos i'm even more relaxed or just because i've slept with them.

 

[Jariel]

I totally relate to you here. I believe it's all down to first impressions. If you're fidgetting or buzzing during your first couple of dates, it's easy for her to prejudge you as a nervous person. But if she takes the time to get to know you, perhaps she realises it's just your nature.

I usually fail by date 3 too and I distinctly remember one girl being totally into me the first 2 dates, telling me "I fancy you so much" and "when I look at you, I just think 'wow!" and then by the 3rd date she told me straight that my twitching and fidgeting had put her off. She said it made her feel uncomfortable and I came across like a "high school virgin".

The ironic thing about all this is the more I relax and let my guard down, the more I fidget, speak quickly and forget what I'm doing. Whereas it takes a real conscious effort to maintain my composure and act calm and smooth.

Right now I'm really making an effort to slow down, breathe from the diaphram, stop myself fidgeting and maintain eye contact when talking. I figure if I keep practising throughout the day and keep applying this frame, it will eventually become natural.

I've noticed a big difference since I've been doing it. I feel better about myself, I seem to be getting more respect from people and I feel in control during my interractions with women...more charming and more confident.

 

[drift king]

i dont think i have it as bad as you apart from i talk really fast and sound annoyed and angry when im not, and shake my legs when im a bit nervous. i think actually my talking fast and a lot is not necessarily nerves but it does happen at same time. my dates have picked up on it and said 'do you talk alot when you're nervous?'

if they're saying this to me then they're sensing it then that's an attraction killer, i cant seem to keep my composure. i think what gets me is i've been stood up and cancelled at the last minute so many times in the past that i panic before each date thinking they're going to cancel so mentally prepare myself for that so when i actually go into the date i feel nervous and anxious.

i try to compensate by being c0cky and funny, maybe arrogant too but still im compensating.

then if i do get to date 2 or 3 i start to feel pressure to sleep with them as soon as possible cos i know once i sleep with them i relax more and have less nerves.

i think the problem is i go through massive long dry spells of months and months of rejections and ignoring of date texts etc that when i do eventually find a girl who's willing to go on a date 2 with me i latch on and get oneitis in fear i wont get another one for months.

do you find that after you've slept with them your issues with fidgeting still puts them off?

cos i can see how that can be really off putting. i seem to fall too hard too soon with any woman who goes on more than one date with me, it's not healthy and it's a definite sign of desperation but it's hard to dispell this when i only get 2nd dates with a girl maybe after months and months in the wilderness.. i think this year i've only had like 3 dates. that's disgraceful.. i've been sarging all year and the best i can do is have a bunch of numbers. i'm surprised i haven't given up yet.

you're lucky cos you said you're good looking so attracting them is easy u dont suffer my problem where they were never physically attracted to me in the first place but liked something of my personality that made them give it a go.. i manage to keep up the good sides of myself up for a couple of dates but then the cracks start to show. i dont know, i was ok a few days ago now i feel very desperate and alone.. i loathe myself for this cos im acting like a girl and need to snap out of it. but it's hard, 3 dates in 1 year with about 25 numbers collected. it's not as if im not putting myself out there trying to pick girls up. i am. just failing miserably. no wonder i get oneitis with any girl who'll go on date 2 with me.

you get a lot of date 2's right? i think it's hard for me to understand exactly what it;s like for you, the women prob think 'why cant he just stop fidgeting?' but i know it's not as simple as that like why cant i stop speaking so fast and sounding annoyed and angry.

 

[st_99]

I have a different but related problem. I tend to get too animated, joke too much (i'm really witty and can
come up with great stuff on the spot like a comedian), and speak too fast and this makes me drift away from the sauve calmer, deeper, slower voice and movements that is more attractive and seductive.

At first, I'll be the latter guy that I believe is more attractive but then as I get more into a conversation or become more and more comfortable with someone I'll cross over into the guy that speaks too fast, too animated, etc..

So I need to stay mindful of that, its hard to keep it in check though. But at least I recognize it now where before
I simply had no idea I was doing that and I think I was turning girls off because perhaps I came across as too goofy
and silly which is not very sexual.

Its funny because I look at some girls boyfriends and think they are so lame and boring but I need to understand that
sometimes saying nothing is sexier than being the star of the show and the life of the party. I just need to
strike a balance and turn it off when need be. Alcohol make it hard though.

 

[drift king]

I have a different but related problem. I tend to get too animated, joke too much (i'm really witty and can
come up with great stuff on the spot like a comedian), and speak too fast and this makes me drift away from the sauve calmer, deeper, slower voice and movements that is more attractive and seductive.

At first, I'll be the latter guy that I believe is more attractive but then as I get more into a conversation or become more and more comfortable with someone I'll cross over into the guy that speaks too fast, too animated, etc..

So I need to stay mindful of that, its hard to keep it in check though. But at least I recognize it now where before
I simply had no idea I was doing that and I think I was turning girls off because perhaps I came across as too goofy
and silly which is not very sexual.

Its funny because I look at some girls boyfriends and think they are so lame and boring but I need to understand that
sometimes saying nothing is sexier than being the star of the show and the life of the party. I just need to
strike a balance and turn it off when need be. Alcohol make it hard though.

i think i have this too, i'm quite witty and it's usually the stuff i use while picking them up. i've learnt that when on dates i run out of things to say and forget to do what i did which interested them in the 1st place. im too outcome dependent. it stops me relaxing.

nerves and tension internally are attraction killers right?

like i'll sit there not sure what to say and panic and get nervous. they'll ask something and i'll give a very friendzone type answer. i think i dont really know how im suppose to be on a date that i dont even act like myself.

 

[omkara]

I'm the total opposite, type c personality. I am a very "still" person. Sometimes it weirds people out, because our culture tends toward the random nervous ADD energy. One time a girl I was out with said she felt weird because I was not moving a lot and she thought people were looking at us. I think this is totally ridiculous and was just her projection. People from Russia, Eastern Europe are more like this and even if you go back to 19th Century America, a lot of the people are not smiling in photos. They are just natural. So her bias comes from the current cultural climate.

I had another girl I went out with ask me if I was high on the date! And I wasn't at all. When I said, no, I am just a very calm person, she said oh that's good. And this girl was not afraid to be disagreeable so I took it as sincere. Then I had another date recently where I mentioned this and the girls also said it was good.

In conclusion, I do think the being calm thing comes across as an alpha characteristic, but it helps if I present it in the proper light, and make an effort to have some animated facial expressions and variance in voice tonality (no one wants to hang out with a depressed dead corpse).

This also reminds me of something someone said in a thread about altercations in bars. A lot of times the best thing you can do is just stare back at the person neutrally and hold your ground without getting upset. This in itself is somewhat alpha. And it's extremely easy too, but I guess you have to have that inner confidence to not get rattled.

 

[NotAgain]

I've found the best method to stop being nervous or fidgetting is staying calm. Do so by slowing your breathing. You gotta realise woman are just woman hey. Heck picture them on the toilet taking a dump and you realise they are nothing special. Confidence takes practice.

 

[floydb25]

I usually fail by date 3 too and I distinctly remember one girl being totally into me the first 2 dates, telling me "I fancy you so much" and "when I look at you, I just think 'wow!" and then by the 3rd date she told me straight that my twitching and fidgeting had put her off. She said it made her feel uncomfortable and I came across like a "high school virgin".

This is why you take everything they say about you in the beginning with a grain of salt. They have a vision of who they think you are... Once you fail to live up to that - you're no good.

I question the kind of women you're going after. They sound like committment phones; in love with the idea of being in love. Black and white thinking isn't normal or healthy. These girls don't seem to accept that you're NORMAL, and not perfect. Like, they expect everything to match your looks. Unrealistic expectations. Are these girls high maintenance, stuck up, picky, etc? Saying you come across as that isn't the nicest thing to say, either. Most decent women would accept it. Snobby ones make fun of you for it, and criticize things about you.

 

[Jariel]

Floyd: You may be right. These girls are usually, by their own admission, very picky and many of them seem to have Disney-esque fantasies.

But I do accept that my mannerisms and behaviour is not consistent with how I look. People say I look like a bad ass. Just the other night some guy (a stranger) was commenting how I look like a hard bastard and asked if I was a boxer or a bouncer. I guess the last thing people expect from me is to be goofy, figetty, nervous or overly humble or polite.

I imagine that the type of girls I attract are looking for a personality that matches the way I look and that's possibly one of the things that goes against me. But it's also one of the characteristics of myself I don't like and would like to change for my own benefit.

 

[Jariel]

But back to the topic of fidgetting and animated behaviour. I remember being on a date about a month ago and noticing 2 other couples in the same bar. I was teasing my date, making her laugh and talking loudly, yet I noticed the other couples were behaving very differently.

One couple were sitting facing each other. They were leaning over the table, talking very quietly. There was no laughing, no animated gestures, and no signs of fun, but they seemed to be connecting very well, holding strong eye contact and looking at each other longingly.

The other couple were sat on the sofa. The guy sat face on, barely speaking or turning his head to the girl. He looked very boring, and yet the girl was all over him. She had her legs tucked under her and her whole body was pointed towards him. She was really gorgeous and he was very average looking and I remember wondering what she saw in him. In retrospect, his body language was very cool and his behaviour seemed quite indifferent.

Neither of those guys were trying to win over their dates by entertaining them or providing fun, yet both seemed to be doing really well. My date appeared to be going well too, but she rejected me the next day.

 

[floydb25]

Ah, so you're like the girl who dresses like a skank, but doesn't put out, and is looking for love - only to end up disappointed when only players and jerks seek her out - then leave her when they find out she's nice.

This is actually a major problem. How you look, feel, and act determines the kind of people you are going to attract. If you're looking for a relationship with a quality girl - you're probably not going to find it by looking like a pretty boy badass. Just a lot of princesses, *****s, and skanks - who will inevitably leave once they find out your true character and intentions.

I used to do the same thing, and attracted all the wrong types of women. Many of them were also stuck up and high maintenance. Not to mention shallow, which is why they sought after this. Took me a while to realize why this was happening.

 

[drift king]

i'm finding that when i approach a woman cos i talk really fast and generally am quite anxious/nervous (not cos of approaching but cos im naturally like that physiologically) i'm turning off a lot of women before the approach has even started.. i dont really know how to change this unless i take some medication that might relax me..

so i usually compensate by being c+f and super confident making them laugh.. but i think it's kind of like doing 2 things at once.. one that repels and one that attracts and maybe that might explain why i get ignored when i go to set up a date.

 

[drift king]

This is why you take everything they say about you in the beginning with a grain of salt. They have a vision of who they think you are... Once you fail to live up to that - you're no good.

so it's best to keep up the facade till once you've slept with them or is their vision of you once changed no matter how long into the relationship you are and you no longer live up to that going to cause it to end?

wont a certain amount of emotional investment in their mind make them try to make it work or still liek you?

 

[Jack Wealthy]

No, you're not being congruent and you're too in your head.

My problem is basically the same as Jariels: I am very good looking, look hard but I am (diagnosed with) moderate-severe adhd. My leg constantly shakes unless I put conscious effort into stopping it, I talk really fast and loud and I tend look around a lot. The more I 'relax' the more these things happen.

I spent time, like Jariel did, working on elimination of these behaviours and it worked. I had to stop the leg shaking in year 8 because it got me kicked out of class- it shook the room a lot- and I spent about 3 months focusing on not looking around so much. Now I don't, unless I get so nervous I get into my head. If I go into my head I instantly relapse into my ADHD mannerisms and watch with horror as the girls lose interest.

Buuuuuuuut, it doesn't really happen anymore. Girls realise I'm relaxed no matter how much I fidget because I still dominate in other ways. I still lead her, I still escalate. I want to have sex with her, not make her like me. I just keep going like she wants me.

The reason your nervous internal feeling is a turn off is because it makes them feel uneasy. So focus on relaxing yourself to relax them, don't care about what you say, etc. Lose girls to get sex.

Ugh, it's taking me a lot to write this. Basically, don't get stuck in your head and the mannerisms you don't want go away. Don't be indifferent, just remember there is countless girls out there for you.

Also, if I get called out on it I just joke. I'm in high school still so I make jokes like ''Yeah, I'm nervous. Tonights gonna be my first time.'' Actually that joke makes me laugh but no one else...

And no, don't go on medication. Benzos are hugely addictive and the withdrawal is surpassed only by barbiturates and alcohol. This isn't a chemical imbalance the way ADHD or depression is, it is just normal everyday anxiety. Learn a coping strategy because the meds are evil.

 

[Jack Wealthy]

Don't try and stop the figiting, acting makes the nervousness and vibe worse. Focus on feeling less nervous yourself.

 

[drift king]

i think the biggest issue i have is on the 2nd and 3rd dates i become very uptight and nervous but more uptight and wooden unable to have fun in fear i'll do something wrong.

yes i know they say i'm too outcome dependent but how can i not be outcome dependent if it's my first 2nd date in like 8 months??!! of course im going to be uptight and outcome dependent.

you may say get more plates, but i have been trying! it's not as if i've been sitting on my a$$ not sarging all year, i collected 30 numbers and only got like 2 dates out of it. no wonder i get oneitis.

i really dont know what to do to shelve this cos it's not as if i can think 'well there'lll be another girl in a few weeks not to worry, for me it's more 'well there'll be another girl in the next 8 months!'

i was in a bar/club with her and i couldn't even encourage her to dance to get her buying temperature up showing i was a fun guy.. that's exactly what was needed at the time. and i didn't do it. she told me 'you need to chill out, you're too serious' she was right as well. i cared too much about the outcome.

how do i completely relax and not care given what i've mentioned above about no plates etc?

i would panic every time a girl texts me in between dates thinking she was flaking or cancelling when it was just high IL and i was on her mind.