The Myth of the Quality Woman

[ketostix]

OK I see better what VU is saying and I've definitely seen it and agree with what he said mostly. But I still think most women lack integrity.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

OK I see better what VU is saying and I've definitely seen it and agree with what he said mostly. But I still think most women lack integrity.

Yo Ketostix,

And I agree with the statement that you just made-----especially what I have highlighted in BOLD. But I would respectfully suggest that you expand your statement BEYOND just women...because I am of the belief that most PEOPLE in general have no integrity.

Which is why exclusivity, LTR, marriage, etc. are ALL forms of relationships that one should NEVER enter into on a whim.

 

[joekerr31]

I just don't see that many women that are in it with a guy for who he really is. But a woman that is in it for you is what I call a quality woman of integrity. I just don't see many women acting with integrity in anything they do, not doing what they say is just one broad example. So it's no real surprise to me that there isn't many quality woman out there. It just seems women's nature is to live in an adoloscent or childish fantasy world where integrity isn't real.

yes, now this is a big issue. women have a FANTASY of what a man is. and they will often get upset when their man fails to live up to the FANTASY.

this is one of the major signs you are dealing with a woman who has not fully matured. a mature woman doesn't buy in to sex in the city bullsh*t ideas of what a man is.

teenage girls have crushes on n-synch or some sh*t. if your adult woman crushes on guys like brad p itt the same way, dump her, because she's still holding on to fantasies.

mature women appreciate and love their man, and are thankful he's there in their life!

 

[ketostix]

VU, well yeah I think men and people in general lack integrity. However, from what I've seen most men try to act with some honor and say what they mean, mean what they say. I think women just take lacking integrity to a whole other level.

The examples of female behavior, inside and outside of romantic relationships, that points to their lack of integrity is as long as the day is. I mean what always happens every time a man takes issue with a woman's behavior? She get's self-righteously indignant, writes the man off and cuts and runs. How could a person develop integrity when they never take responsibility for anything.

So tieing into what you said previously, it's no surprise men can't always see what a women's really up to. You can't just simply ask her and get to the truth.

Yeah Joekerr, that's another piece of the puzzle I think. I guess you have to be like a detective looking for the signs and have the experience to know what they mean.

 

[joekerr31]

ok, VU, great posts.

let me add something here.

the quality women I talk about are defined by one primary characteristic above all others - and that characteristic is that they take responsibility for their own emotional state, for their happiness if you will - they own it.

these women's dont act nearly as much. they open up much quicker. when things go wrong, they address it and call you out on the carpet.

the women who act heavily are typically not happy with themselves, nor do they take responsibility for their own happiness. its YOUR responsibility to read their midns and make sure they are always happy (haha). these women operate based on the barter system - you get to f*ck the p*ssy and in exchange she will give you the feeling that you have a deep emotional connection.

these women, when you are no longer paying them enough attention, will start to cut loose of you and a m onth down the road will stick the knife in your back.

but there are women who do NOT behave this way. there are women who don't have the time or the interest in this bullsh*t. they do not have low self esteem, they do no think their happiness is someone elses reponsibility, and they do realize that a successful relationship is dependent on honest communication and compromise (note: not typical female covert communications, but over communication).

they are rare by the do exist.

 

[joekerr31]

Yeah Joekerr, that's another piece of the puzzle I think. I guess you have to be like a detective looking for the signs and have the experience to know what they mean.

agreed, and thats what sosuave should be in part about. developing your spidey senses.

i find it hard to believe that you can be a true DJ without understanding women at the same time. sure, if your good looking and get some pick up techniques under your belt you'll be a DJ i guess. but none of that stuff will help you keep a woman long term.

you've got to know how they think. i mean, that's most of what we do here - take situations where a guy doesn't understand why a woman is behaving a certain way and then school him on why women think and do the things they do.

all of this isn't so hard. what makes it so hard is that guys get total blinders on when dealing with women. they get addicted to the p*ssy, to the ego stroking, etc. and get played.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo JOE,


True. The women who act LESS, but openly and truthfully communicate more are the ones that demonstrate that they MAY be worth the time it takes to investigate the contents of their character in their ENTIRETY.

And YES, they ARE out there...I've seen them, met them, and even been in relationships with one or two of them in the past----years BEFORE I became the man I am today. SOMETIMES many of us should just admit that we are at least partly responsible for letting some good quality relationship candidates "get away", simply because we met them BEFORE we were ready to treat such a potential coupling with the kind of HONOR and APPRECIATION it deserved. And this usually happens mostly as the result of NOT recognizing what we had when it presented itself to us.

And I would also suggest that many men who come here are so embittered by one or two of those "missed opportunities" that it has forever affected their relationship outlook------in a negative sense.

SOMETIMES, troops, we have to come to grips with the possibility that WE may have not always been QUALITY men. And that can be a big, bitter pill to swallow. But the sooner we do, the sooner we can GET OVER IT------then, we can get on with the mission of learning from our mistakes and striving to become better men from this point on.

I believe it's true that the best way to get what you want out of any relationship is by becoming the kind of person who DESERVES it.


Peace...one day.

 

[STR8UP]

SOMETIMES many of us should just admit that we are at least partly responsible for letting some good quality relationship candidates "get away", simply because we met them BEFORE we were ready to treat such a potential coupling with the kind of HONOR and APPRECIATION it deserved. And this usually happens mostly as the result of NOT recognizing what we had when it presented itself to us.

I'll be the first to admit that I let one slip away because

1) I wasn't ready to settle down

2) Even if I was ready to settle down i did not posses the skills required to keep her

Hot little latina. If I were to have met her today things would likely be different. I miss that one.

 

[joekerr31]

SOMETIMES, troops, we have to come to grips with the possibility that WE may have not always been QUALITY men. And that can be a big, bitter pill to swallow. But the sooner we do, the sooner we can GET OVER IT------then, we can get on with the mission of learning from our mistakes and striving to become better men from this point on.

if the world will filled with quality men, then we would have none of these problems with women in general. women only get away with what men allow them to. and women, in general, will only increase their quality in relation to their desire to have a man - the more quality men out there, the more women will learn to be quality women in order to catch one of those men.

 

[ketostix]

if the world will filled with quality men, then we would have none of these problems with women in general. women only get away with what men allow them to. and women, in general, will only increase their quality in relation to their desire to have a man - the more quality men out there, the more women will learn to be quality women in order to catch one of those men.

Here's where you lost me. I guess it depends what the definition of quality men is. By my definition of quality-a guy that holds women to standards and expectations, I'd say most women don't really like quality.

Now if by quality man you mean someone that is just good at attracting women and can keep the ones he wants to, I'd have to say the more quality men out there the more the competition men would have. And all women could have a quality man so she would have to compete less for a man and would have no incentive to raise her quality. It's simple supply and demand. And this is what I think is happening, there's enough "quality" guys getting all the women and there's not enough quality girls to go around. Women don't have to be better.

 

[Bonhomme]

The thing that strikes me as odd about this thread is that almost all of the discussion (grinder's excellent post being a particularly notable exception) is framed as if there's a line, on one side of which is the "quality" woman, and the other side of which is the "low quality" woman (or "hor" in the LMS/PRL Universe, or whatever).

It's not that "cut and dried."

And integrity does not equate with character, and neither of those equate with lack of sexual promiscuity.

Hitler had a great deal of integrity. He said what he did and did what he said quite consistently... but character ... that's a whole 'nother story.

It's a complex and multi-colored, as opposed to black and white, issue. Each woman (and man) has their own character strengths and weaknesses, all in different degrees. The important thing is to involve yourself with those people whose strengths enhance your life the best and weaknesses you can deal with the best.

 

[STR8UP]

The thing that strikes me as odd about this thread is that almost all of the discussion (grinder's excellent post being a particularly notable exception) is framed as if there's a line, on one side of which is the "quality" woman, and the other side of which is the "low quality" woman (or "hor" in the LMS/PRL Universe, or whatever).

For all intents and purposes I call all women "low quality".

Just because of the fact that character aside, in general they lack integrity.

That doesn't mean that i would never marry a low quality woman. I guess that sounds funny, huh?

Well maybe we shouldn't be calling it low vs high quality, just for the fact that almost all women are incapable of holding themselves to any kind of standards over the long term.

Maybe it should be "rare, shining jewel" vs "the rest of them"

 

[azanon]

For all intents and purposes I call all women "low quality".

Just because of the fact that character aside, in general they lack integrity.

Gonna be honest with you. I think this statement is sad, as well as your thread title. I personally know at least a few beautiful, high quality women. There are people with integrity out there; men and women. If that's what you believe, its going to be reality for you and you will lead a cynical life.

 

[aliasguy]

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cynical. adj. --- a dirty word for "excelling at pattern recognition."
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[STR8UP]

Gonna be honest with you. I think this statement is sad, as well as your thread title. I personally know at least a few beautiful, high quality women. There are people with integrity out there; men and women. If that's what you believe, its going to be reality for you and you will lead a cynical life.

A lot of men lack integrity as well.

Don't mistake the fact that i don't mention men as me thinking it is only women.

But as far as relationships go, I think we are developing a new understanding of the difference between men and women when it comes to loyalty and integrity. And the conclusion that some of us are coming to is that women generally see men as an expendable commodity.

azanon- being married, you, out of default are going to have a different opinion. You can't acknowledge what I am saying without questioning whether or not you made the right choice in getting married, and I know you aren't prepared to go there.

I do not deny the fact that there ARE people out there who have integrity.

My point is that they are few and far between, and that in relationships women tend to have less of it than men.

I personally know at least a few beautiful, high quality women.

Here's what i have found.

There are a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing.

Most people you can count on up to the point that your monetary (in the case of a business/money) or friend/romantic relationship (in the case of relationships) value is not tested.

Let me explain.

My 20 year BEST FRIEND from high school. I was in this guys WEDDING. He would always comment to me that if anything were to happen to him that he wanted me to make sure his family was ok. ALL THAT KIND OF SH!T.

In 20 years I never saw even a hint of dishonesty. Until I put him in charge of handling my financial affairs at my business, that is.

He then had access to steal in excess of $100k from me. From that point on, I knew my value to him. his integrity was intact up to $100k. When he had the opportunity to steal that money he did so without guilt or remorse. He even threatened me with all kinds of stuff if I went to the police.

As soon as I exceeded my monetary value, his integrity was GONE. Up until that point i had no clue. 20 years of friendship and I had NO CLUE.

Women are no different.

You have a value to her.

She will constantly evaluate this on a subconscious level, and if she ever determines that you aren't worth what she needs, that's it. She will leave you, or cheat on you, or whatever. No guilt or remorse.

So, azanon, I ask you this. Have these "people with integrity" had the opportunity to test the boundaries of your value to them? Have you had ample time to observe what transpires when they are put in a position to have to judge whether or not you are expendable?

I could say that I THINK many people I know have integrity. But there are only a very very small handfull of people who have been in the position of having to judge my value to them that have passed to date.

 

[joekerr31]

She will constantly evaluate this on a subconscious level, and if she ever determines that you aren't worth what she needs, that's it. She will leave you, or cheat on you, or whatever. No guilt or remorse.

str8up, agreed with everything in your post.

but have to say that this is why marriage is suppose to be special. during the dating phase, yes, its about feeling each other out, assessing each other, comparing each other to other prospects that you coudl be pursuing etc.

but when you get married it is suppose to be a commitment to look out for each other for life. your suppose to leave the self interest narcissism at the door.

unfortuantely, in todays world, a lot of people are going in to marriage as though its merely an extension of dating. 'oh we've dated for 2 years, time to get married.'

the reason everything is a mess is that most people are a mess. they mess up their financial lives, they mess up their careers, they mess up their lives, and so is it any surprise that they mess up their relationships.

but amidst all this mess, there are still good and kind people in the world. its just a matter of finding them. not always easy, but they do exist.

 

[aliasguy]

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Joker--

You're right, marriage is supposed to be special, supposed to be a commitment.

And I wish it were, but it is no longer.

When it's easier to get out of a marriage (just say "I want out") than to get out of a contract to buy a house, or even a cell phone contract, then marriage has, in effect, ceased to BE. All that's left is redistribution of wealth, a percentage for the divorce industry, and (if you're religious) an annulment.


No "quality" women, no REAL marriage anymore. I'm depressed. It's really too bad. But I accept it, and will continues to go forward, even in this big mess our society has become. (Maybe it wasn't better before, I dunno, but it SURE is a mess now.)

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[EDIT: For the record, I filed for divorce, not my ex.]

 

[Tazman]

People aren't really static though it seems. I've come across people in my life that I feel have a integrity, but it seems like it's always "situational". People that have had humbling experiences in life tend to have more integrity than others, but you take these same people and place them in someone else's shoes and you're bound to get a different outcome.

I know that your upbringing is a very crucial moment in life because as a child you pick things up from your surroundings at an early age (a lot earlier than most people realize), you can be somewhat "molded" into a responsible person but if your parents aren't "consistent" in how they discipline you it can be all for not.

People who are born with silver spoons in their mouths tend not to know the value of money, they've never had to think about it. Especially if their parents spoiled them. Look at the behavior of kids who got special attention given to them over their siblings because they were the "favorites". It might seem insignificant but it does shape who you are and how you feel about others.

I believe the modern world plays a huge role in all of this. I think it was mentioned in another thread that familys just aren't as strong as they once were because there was a time when we all needed each other to survive from day-to-day. Now, even if you have a low income you still have the benefits of grocery stores, public transportation, etc.

Look at the work ethic (integrity) of some ethnicities that come from other parts of the world to make use of the many benefits here in America. Contrast that with the people who are here already and throw opportunites away as if they're worthless.

A lot of women rely on their p-ssy to get them through life, and with so many men willing to become what women WANT them to be (as it relates to them) I don't see this changing. They are this way because it is tolerated and I honestly can't see it changing. We still have to chase them if we want them and now we have laws that protect them from having to deal with the consequences of the bad choices they make.

 

[joekerr31]

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No "quality" women, no REAL marriage anymore. I'm depressed. It's really too bad. But I accept it, and will continues to go forward, even in this big mess our society has become. (Maybe it wasn't better before, I dunno, but it SURE is a mess now.)[EDIT: For the record, I filed for divorce, not my ex.]

i know i'll sound like a old record here... but i think a lot of this has to do with mass media.

almost EVERYONE (well a good 90% of folks) are living in a 'the grass is always greener' world. their expectations of what life should be is soooooo out of wack its crazy.

people dont want to work hard for anything. they don't want to be the masters of their own destinies. they just want to jump in to things blindly and hope its a miracle cure. when it turns out not to be, they just jump back out.

women today have seen soooo much bullsh*t on tv that their idea of what a husband should be is insane. and men have seen so much bullsh*t that fat slobs think they should be nailing america's next top models and are p*ssed that they aren't.

people have gone f*cking nuts. they aren't living in reality anymore. and i include myself in this. while i'm unplugged more than most, i still have more to go. to unplug completely is not easy, but it MUST be done. my most recent effort to 'unplug' has been to quit smoking (after 14 years!). the world shapes us, but every now and then in life you have to stop and ask yourself are you living the life you want, or are you living a life that simply 'happened' to you. and when you do this you have to make changes to OWN your life, instead of letting life own you. and for me, quiting smoking is, im hoping, the last big step i have in terms of unplugging from the effects this world has had on me up to this point.

as for whether things are better or worse than before - when it comes to physical comforts its obviously WAY better. medicine, plumbing, electricity, grocery stores, etc. we have it very cushy.

but just like children who are spoiled turn in to brats, because we are spoiled with regards to the physical necessities of life we are turning into shallow, pathetic people. in terms of interpersonal relationships we are so much worse than in the past.

most individuals feel connected to almost nothing now (CNN is the new world church, heaven help us . at least in the past people were a part of something - a community, a church, a monarchy, etc. - they had a place in things. A real place. they were important to other people, just like others were important to them, everyone had a place that meant something.

today no one really has a place in anything, because there is no 'thing' anymore. everything is transitional. you have a job one year, you dont the next. you have a wife one year, you don't the next. everything is in total flux now and people are just scurrying about blindly trying to keep their life going.

we have reached a point in life now where the individual is now fully responsible for their own happiness. and while this may sound like a good thing, its not - because peopel have no f*cking clue how to be happy. in the past people were raised to think a certain way - and whether right or wrong, that way of 'thinking' had been tried and true to an extent.

today though all of us are left to our own devices, and MOST people, as to be expected, aren't making any effort to grow as a person. as a result we've got a world full of adults with the emotional and psychological growth of a child. and it doesn't help when half of america is watching oprah and listening to new age bullsh*t that has no practical application in the REAL world.

but you can still unplug from it all. let the rest of the world live in madness, you can still find peace and live a happy life.

 

[joekerr31]

My own mother is the model, of what I think is a 100% QUALITY WOMAN. She has no addictive personality, is smart, wealthy, and wise. If anything- I pattern all women after her. So far, none has even come close. I realize my chance of finding a woman with her virtues....is like winning the lottery.

women like your mother use to be everywhere. they use to be the norm.

now 90% of the chics idolize madonna and britney spears - the poster childs of dysfunctional female behavior.

glad to hear you kicked the dope dude!!!