The Missing Puzzle Piece: The Myth of ASD

[Velasco]

I read something a couple of days ago that finally helped me connect the dots on something that's alluded me. My goal is to share to help those who had a vague idea of what I'm about to share. But have never been able to put the pieces together.

Here it is:
https://matingselfishness.wordpress.com/2013/04/25/selfish-and-happy/

Particularly this one sentence:

"Some girls act interested in order to mislead and get romantic attention from you, the female equivalent of a guy leading a girl on in order to get sex".

For players the goal is simple: fvck her as soon as possible. And then convert her into a casual relationship for as long as you feel like.

We know that for a lot of sexually available girls (those without a man or with a place holder) their long term goal is to lock down a guy who they deem sexy (hot+socially intelligent) into their boyfriend. They don't want to end up getting played or emotionally invest in someone who they don't see boyfriend potential in. So we do as players do and give off some boyfriend vibes to compliment our player vibe. Later down the line when you don't give her the commitment she was looking for, after all the time she's invested in you, is when she realizes she got played. (Of course, some guys do want to be exclusive with the chick, and her investment does end up paying off. But that's a risk shes gotta take in sleeping with you. Not knowing with 100% certainty, if you will or won't give her commitment she's seeking). So we act a certain way BECAUSE we know it will help us achieve our goal.

Now for attention wh0res (female players) their goal is: Attention. So they'll act interested BECAUSE they know that's how they'll get what they want. romantic attention. Meaning she'll makeout with you, let you get up in her space. Once she gets it, your done.

And the common misconception here is to think that you did something wrong. That's why you came here asking for advice. By kissing her, putting your hands on her body while talking about fvcking, sex positions, looking at her with sexual desire...etc, you triggered ASD. But really that was her goal all along! Romantic attention.

Funny how those other times you did all them things above that triggered ASD in this one chick, you didn't get ASD. Instead that girl got turned the fvck on from it and couldn't wait to get the fvck outta there with you to get fvcked. That's because her goal was aligned with your goal. To get fvcked.

Now some will say Anti-Slvt Defense is real. And it is. In the common sense way that going up to a girl and saying "hey you wanna fvck?" Will never work. And that you feeling her up right in front of her close friends VS you feeling her up away from her close friends where they can't see her letting you feel her up, proves ASD is real. Again this is common sense. Everyone who goes out knows this. However the PUA claim is that by showing her you are nonjudgmental, how talking about how sex is no big deal, how women should be free to express themselves sexually. Talking about how society objectifies women as sex objects ...all these things refered to as "ASD frames" you will bypass ASD, even if she isn't sexually available/attracted to you. This is the myth of ASD. A girl who is sexually available and attracted to you, you will bypass ASD whether you say them ASD frame things above or not. A girl who is not sexually available, you will not bypass ASD. Because that's not her goal.

I'll leave you with some screenshots to help let this sink in

Two 15+ year high lay count players who still after all these years picking up girls can't reliably tell whether a chick is dtf or in attention seeking mode.

On fake IOIs:

indirect sex talk (tryna bypass ASD through ASD framing)VS direct sex talk (turning her on):

*Female State Control (FSC). The phenomenon whereby girls "suddenly" lose interest in fvcking you after you've reciprocated their "interest". Aka after she's gotten what she was after*.

Direct sex talk is better in that it screens out attention wh0res EARLY, while indirect sex talk does not.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Now for attention wh0res (female players) their goal is: Attention. So they'll act interested BECAUSE they know that's how they'll get what they want. romantic attention. Meaning she'll makeout with you, let you get up in her space. Once she gets it, your done.

And the common misconception here is to think that you did something wrong. That's why you came here asking for advice. By kissing her, putting your hands on her body while talking about fvcking, sex positions, looking at her with sexual desire...etc, you triggered ASD. But really that was her goal all along! Romantic attention.

This hasn't been my experience at all. Once you've made out with her, sex is pretty much a given, unless you somehow manage to screw it up. One caveat is that this only applies to girls you meet in a sober state. It does not necessarily apply to random drunk girls you make out with at bars/clubs.

While there are plenty of women who will lead you on because they crave attention, they will not cross the intimacy boundary. And making out does cross that boundary.

 

[Willie Naylor]

This hasn't been my experience at all. Once you've made out with her, sex is pretty much a given, unless you somehow manage to screw it up. One caveat is that this only applies to girls you meet in a sober state. It does not necessarily apply to random drunk girls you make out with at bars/clubs.

While there are plenty of women who will lead you on because they crave attention, they will not cross the intimacy boundary. And making out does cross that boundary.

I agree with @Velasco

The #1 thing all men need to know, and hopefully already do, is that women NEED male validation. They can't survive without it.

Why do you think she's always asking you if you like her latest IG pic, or her hair, or her dress, or her new nail polish, etc etc?

 

[Bokanovsky]

I agree with @Velasco

The #1 thing all men need to know, and hopefully already do, is that women NEED male validation. They can't survive without it.

Why do you think she's always asking you if you like her latest IG pic, or her hair, or her dress, or her new nail polish, etc etc?

Did you read the post you were replying to?

 

[Velasco]

Once you've made out with her, sex is pretty much a given

I have TOO many experiences of instant makeouts (like right off the bat, and after 2-3 minutes of talking) with non-drunk girls and the girl either fvcking off soon thereafter to go with her friends (why I shared baron's post on fake IOIs). It's for this reason I began doing kiss denials early on. Where you get in her space and tease the kiss a couple times when you know she wants a kiss (did not affect the outcome. Attention wh0res get the validation when I eventually do kiss them or they fvck off because I refuse to give them validation, and dtf girls love it). I did this 3 weeks ago and the girl pulled me home (dtf).

 

[SargeMaximus]

Glad to see you back Velasco. I’ve noticed this too but what is to be done? Are you saying we should just figure out if they are time wasters and next them asap or are you saying there is still a way to get the lay with these types?

 

[Modern Man Advice]

I read something a couple of days ago that finally helped me connect the dots on something that's alluded me. My goal is to share to help those who had a vague idea of what I'm about to share. But have never been able to put the pieces together.

Here it is:
https://matingselfishness.wordpress.com/2013/04/25/selfish-and-happy/

Particularly this one sentence:

"Some girls act interested in order to mislead and get romantic attention from you, the female equivalent of a guy leading a girl on in order to get sex".

For players the goal is simple: fvck her as soon as possible. And then convert her into a casual relationship for as long as you feel like.

We know that for a lot of sexually available girls (those without a man or with a place holder) their long term goal is to lock down a guy who they deem sexy (hot+socially intelligent) into their boyfriend. They don't want to end up getting played or emotionally invest in someone who they don't see boyfriend potential in. So we do as players do and give off some boyfriend vibes to compliment our player vibe. Later down the line when you don't give her the commitment she was looking for, after all the time she's invested in you, is when she realizes she got played. (Of course, some guys do want to be exclusive with the chick, and her investment does end up paying off. But that's a risk shes gotta take in sleeping with you. Not knowing with 100% certainty, if you will or won't give her commitment she's seeking). So we act a certain way BECAUSE we know it will help us achieve our goal.

Now for attention wh0res (female players) their goal is: Attention. So they'll act interested BECAUSE they know that's how they'll get what they want. romantic attention. Meaning she'll makeout with you, let you get up in her space. Once she gets it, your done.

And the common misconception here is to think that you did something wrong. That's why you came here asking for advice. By kissing her, putting your hands on her body while talking about fvcking, sex positions, looking at her with sexual desire...etc, you triggered ASD. But really that was her goal all along! Romantic attention.

Funny how those other times you did all them things above that triggered ASD in this one chick, you didn't get ASD. Instead that girl got turned the fvck on from it and couldn't wait to get the fvck outta there with you to get fvcked. That's because her goal was aligned with your goal. To get fvcked.

Now some will say Anti-Slvt Defense is real. And it is. In the common sense way that going up to a girl and saying "hey you wanna fvck?" Will never work. And that you feeling her up right in front of her close friends VS you feeling her up away from her close friends where they can't see her letting you feel her up, proves ASD is real. Again this is common sense. Everyone who goes out knows this. However the PUA claim is that by showing her you are nonjudgmental, how talking about how sex is no big deal, how women should be free to express themselves sexually. Talking about how society objectifies women as sex objects ...all these things refered to as "ASD frames" you will bypass ASD, even if she isn't sexually available/attracted to you. This is the myth of ASD. A girl who is sexually available and attracted to you, you will bypass ASD whether you say them ASD frame things above or not. A girl who is not sexually available, you will not bypass ASD. Because that's not her goal.

I'll leave you with some screenshots to help let this sink in

Two 15+ year high lay count players who still after all these years picking up girls can't reliably tell whether a chick is dtf or in attention seeking mode.

On fake IOIs:

indirect sex talk (tryna bypass ASD through ASD framing)VS direct sex talk (turning her on):

*Female State Control (FSC). The phenomenon whereby girls "suddenly" lose interest in fvcking you after you've reciprocated their "interest". Aka after she's gotten what she was after*.

Direct sex talk is better in that it screens out attention wh0res EARLY, while indirect sex talk does not.

I agree that being direct aka assertive (both verbally and physically) is the best approach in those instances where the ultimate goal is sex. It is rather simple if the woman genuinely desires it and you are non-judgemental (assuming the right game is used) she will always comply.

If you want the smash, are direct but the woman gives you hurdles, she has an agenda. Most that likely (99%) to get attention/validation.

I, personally, am of the philosophy that the dates I go on girls are simply part of what I do anyway. I agree with the article that being a girl pleaser is simply problematic in the sense that you have a high risk of a girl simply reeling you in for her own pleasure without anything in return.

I also personally am of the philosophy that a genuine DGAF mindset/attitude is a highly desirable trait. In this case, you are not looking for anything serious. You want fun/sex. So you tell/show them straight and to their face. If not on the same page, there is the door.

In conclusion, being direct, assertive, and DGAF will certainly weed out any potential time wasters.


Modern Man Advice

 

[Willie Naylor]

Here's where your theory is takes a wrong turn. Women don't actually want commitment, even from a supposed "high value" man.

Why? Because the very act of committing to a woman proves to her hindbrain that you are not abundant and high value. Because if you were, they why would you be committing to her? This is female logic 101 and it is actually highly logical if you think about it.

I get this, but doesn't this also give the girl the sense of satisfaction that she wanted all along. You know, she's the one girl who finally figured out a way to lock you down.

You saying that once she knows she's won you over, the fun is over for her?

 

[Velasco]

Are you saying we should just figure out if they are time wasters and next them asap or are you saying there is still a way to get the lay with these types?

You want to figure out right away if she's a time waster. You see that the way pelusita does so in the screenshots. Now you can just move on and keep approaching with the goal of finding another girl that is dtf. OR you can move on, not be butthurt and keep approaching with the goal of making her jealous through social proof. You being seen by her talking with girls just as attractive as her. And them having a good time talking with you. While she is stuck talking with boring guys she left you for. The strategy is less likely of getting you laid than just moving on and finding a girl whose dtf, but it can work. Field tested.

 

[Bokanovsky]

I have TOO many experiences of instant makeouts (like right off the bat, and after 2-3 minutes of talking) with non-drunk girls and the girl either fvcking off soon thereafter to go with her friends (why I shared baron's post on fake IOIs). It's for this reason I began doing kiss denials early on. Where you get in her space and tease the kiss a couple times when you know she wants a kiss (did not affect the outcome. Attention wh0res get the validation when I eventually do kiss them or they fvck off because I refuse to give them validation, and dtf girls love it). I did this 3 weeks ago and the girl pulled me home (dtf).

I don't try to make out with a girl 2-3 minutes after I meet her, so I guess that's why our experiences are different. I was talking about making out with a girl after you get to know her a bit, like at the end of the first date or on the second date. The concept of two sober adults making out after a 2-3 minute interaction is a bit alien to me.

 

[Modern Man Advice]

The problem with this approach is that telling a woman that you want to have sex with her is possibly the most boring thing a woman could possibly hear from you. You become just another dude with a d1ck and an obvious agenda.

You absolutely cannot deny a woman the experience of trying to "win you over" - this is essential for gaining attractive women with genuine desire.

I don't think any guy that knows "game" (whatever that is nowadays as it's such a loosely used term) will actually be that direct. What I meant by direct is you setting your intentions by sexualizing the conversation and breaking physical barriers almost right away.

Although I am not going to lie, I once said that to a girl and it worked. But I do think that was a one-off. I agree that I'm sure that many women have gotten the "DTF?" text or statement and yes it can look desperate with the wrong vibe and setting. But with the right pre-game and game approach being direct about your sexuality, meaning not beating around the bush, will weed out attention seekers. Which is how I read the post/article, but might be wrong.

I also agree with you that part of the dance is for the women to try to win you over and there are tactics you can use to facilitate/highlight that. The usual push and pull, little to zero attention aka staying busy, etc, etc. But I think that's more for a girl you might consider actually dating. Make her invest in you and she will chase you and crave you. I think the post was about something slightly different.


Modern Man Advice

 

[Barrister]

I have TOO many experiences of instant makeouts (like right off the bat, and after 2-3 minutes of talking) with non-drunk girls and the girl either fvcking off soon thereafter to go with her friends (why I shared baron's post on fake IOIs). It's for this reason I began doing kiss denials early on. Where you get in her space and tease the kiss a couple times when you know she wants a kiss (did not affect the outcome. Attention wh0res get the validation when I eventually do kiss them or they fvck off because I refuse to give them validation, and dtf girls love it). I did this 3 weeks ago and the girl pulled me home (dtf).

Making out with a sober chick after 2-3 minutes of first meeting her? lol. Come on dude. I have never seen this happen in real life. Nor do I see why you would want to attempt that so quickly. You come off thirsty. No build up. No mystery.

Edit: In fact, the more I think about this, sounds like a way to get an assault charge.

 

[Velasco]

Making out with a sober chick after 2-3 minutes of first meeting her? lol. Come on dude. I have never seen this happen in real life. Nor do I see why you would want to attempt that so quickly. You come off thirsty. No build up. No mystery.

Bokanosky said random drunk girls you make out with at bars. So in response to this I said I did this with non-drunk girls. There is no way for me to know if the girls I made out with were totally sober when I made out with them (I do know for a fact that my girlfriend was sober when I approached and made out with her because she doesn't drink). Or if they had 1-2 drinks. But drunk girls it's pretty obvious. Their eyes, breath, them repeatedly asking you the same questions lol.

He clarified he's talking about making out in the context of first/second dates. While I am talking about girls you meet in and outside of bars at night.

 

[Barrister]

I made this exact point to Velasco a while back. Some of the dating advice he's given in the past is literally the equivalent of hiding in some bushes, waiting for a lone woman to walk past, and dragging her into the bushes for "super fast seduction".

It is absolutely autistic stuff that will lead to some poor guys getting arrested who choose to follow this type of "Get your c0ck into her as quickly as possible, before she even realises what's happening" advice.

I suppose that is one way to get laid. Unfortunately, also probably a great way to see the inside of a jail cell. Ha

 

[Modern Man Advice]

I agree with both @Pan87 and @Barrister but unless I misunderstood Velasco's point, we are talking about being intentional when sex is the ultimate goal.

As I said, I agree that:

1) "Gaming" <HB5 (usually insecure with way fewer options) is not really gaming and should not be considered a pull/win.
2) In this day and age, you have to be really careful about physical interactions with women. I've always stated this before on this forum and to the men I coach, be proactive, stay alert and ahead of the curve, cover your bases before escalating anything physical. It sounds bad, as it def hinders the enjoyment of the "game" but man I've seen so many cases of men's lives being ruined by being too upfront, not reading people's boundaries, and coming off as a creep. Even if falsely accused, their lives are forever changed unless he has covered his bases.

Bottom line is, yes you are right, going for the kiss (with any girl) in the first 5 mins of meeting them is simply a bad idea. There needs to be a trail of "game" which, if the goal is to smash, includes being direct and assertive on that first encounter. If you do this well, you can easily tell if the girl will comply and is on the same page. If on the other hand, you say something sexual or get a little (safely) physical throughout the encounter and she retracts she simply will most likely not comply and is not on the same page.

For those girls that shower you with compliments, and reel you in for the sake of attention/money, being direct and assertive will highlight certain behaviors that you take note of and next her as a "time-waster" since your goal is sex.

If the goal is to date the girl, being direct and assertive on the first encounter encompasses a slightly different approach that includes the general push and pull. You still want to "sexualize" the convo and break physical barriers but since the goal is not sex right away, there is no need to indirectly display your sexuality so strongly.


Modern Man Advice

 

[2Rocky]

Bottom line is, yes you are right, going for the kiss (with any girl) in the first 5 mins of meeting them is simply a bad idea. There needs to be a trail of "game" which, if the goal is to smash, includes being direct and assertive on that first encounter. If you do this well, you can easily tell if the girl will comply and is on the same page. If on the other hand, you say something sexual or get a little (safely) physical throughout the encounter and she retracts she simply will most likely not comply and is not on the same page.

Modern Man Advice

I had a long drawn out online courtship with a woman for two months before I met her. Text, phone, video etc.

You bet your sweet butt I kissed her when I met her in-person. We had established that rapport. And in that case the moment was right. And she was the right one to do that with. Had I waited in that scenario, it would have made things awkward. Remember...Never say WHOA in a horse race. and I was gonna get out to an early lead or pull up lame.