Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

The Meta-Game

Rollo Tomassi

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AsRecently I've been contemplating the last 6 or so years I've spent on SS. Every time I consider the things I've written for the 'community' I always need to put them in perspective of where I've come from and what I've learned in that time. I just related a single mommy story in an other thread, one that I learned from almost 20 years ago. I also go into how things were before the advent of the internet occasionally.

I think it's really hard for a generation of young Men to fully appreciate the progress that guys in their mid-30s, mid-40s and 50s have made in their respective times. It's hard for mid 20s and teenage guys to relate to a time before the level of communication we take for granted today. No one knew what an AFC was in 1995. I didn't own a cell phone until 2002 and never texted anyone regularly until 2007. When guys in their 30s and 40s now were learning the lessons we relate here, there were no forums, no PUA (formally anyway), and the phenomenon we call feminization and the Matrix was at the peak of it's influence by virtue alone of no one questioning or being aware of its influence. We lacked the communication, certainly the global communication to really bring common experiences together and form ideas from those observations. We were in the dark. Remember, no Tom Leykis, no internet, and the "how to pick up girls" books were what losers ordered by mail from an ad they saw in the back of a Hustler magazine. In fact porn was only accessible by renting it from the back room of a VHS rental store, by magazine or pirating the Spice channel from cable. Good times.

Now lets flash forward to 2010. I can't go a day without having viagra or porn offered to me in my email. Sex of course is like hot and cold running water now, but moreover, so is the collected experience of literally a world of men considering the same questions. Thanks to globalized, instant communications, a new generation of Men can collectively consider experiences and observations that were previously left unsaid. Where before there was a stigma of "not being man enough" in asking questions and seeking relevant advice, now it's replaced by the 'community'. I'm going to make a bold statement here:

The internet is to Men what the sexual revolution was for women.

The genie is now out of the bottle, and for better or worse the information is liberating. This is the Meta-Game. Lets consider it for a moment: Just last week I added my voice to a chorus of other men from around the world to help out a young man struggling with his AFC problems. I joined guys from Britain, Australia, Spain, Canada, New York, Los Angeles, and anywhere in between. A global collective of Men advised this kid. That's pretty powerful stuff. This is one world of men advising a young man about his situation with a girl acculturated by in a world influenced by women for decades.

This is the Meta-Masculine pushing back against the Meta-Feminized. Now, I know the Matrix is everywhere, and I think we all can appreciate how encompassing and pervasive it is. I know the Love Shacks of the world are largely the antithesis of the Meta-Masculine. I didn't say the mountain looked easy to climb. However, just the collectivity of the global community gives me hope. Every time we unplug a guy from the Matrix it's a group effort.

Yes, there's differences of opinion. The Roissy's and the STR8UPS, the JOPHIL's and the Rollo's of the world are going to lock horns over priorities, but the bigger pictures is making Men aware. The global collective waking them up is the first and best benefit. It is dirty, filthy, work unplugging Men from the Matrix, but that's the start.

If I'm optimistic about anything it's in the hope that the next generation of men will at least have the opportunity to be made aware of the "code" in the Matrix - that simply didn't exist when I was struggling to unplug. By that I mean that they will develop at least a capacity, or at least a sensitivity to acknowledge that certain feminine social conventions exist, and were the gender roles reversed they'd be accused of sexism. I've always felt that making these comparisons is the first real step in understanding what the matrix is. I am far more attentive to the veiled, socially excusable, feminine sexism that we casually pass off in common culture today because I realize the latent function those conventions serve. Like G.I. Joe says, knowing is half the battle.

The main obstacle for the positive-masculine Meta Game is that a majority of the same men it would serve are the unwitting (or at least willfully ignorant) pawns of the feminized Meta Game. I think its wrong to think of these men - the betas, the AFCs, the naive Alphas - as "recruits" for the feminine imperative. I come to that because it takes an entire feminized society to condition a young man over the course of a lifetime to psychologically ego-invest himself in the feminine Meta Game. They need to be raised and trained before the ego-investment becomes self-propagating, at which point only extremely traumatic experiences will open his eyes to that conditioning.

I used the example of a typical rAFC or 'seeking' young man asking for advice from the collective at SoSuave. Almost universally the problems they want to solve are themes so tired and so thoroughly covered by the collective of men in the community that we'll defer them to the DJ Bible or rephrase old posts on the same topic. I do this myself, but think about the profundity of that for a moment. Here we have a questioning guy dealing with a problem I dealt with, sometimes, over 20 years ago, and men my senior dealt with 30 or even 40 years ago. The memes haven't changed much in the past 60 years. I think a common missive is to think that the only reason guys seek out the community is to "get laid more" or "find the secret to getting their dream girl". While that's a definite motivator, so many more want solutions to relational problems that have existed in their current form for over half a century now. How do I get her back? Why did I just get LJBFed? Why does she ƒuck the Jerk, but tell me I'm a such a great guy? Do looks matter? How do I get my LTR to bang me now that we moved in together? There are countless others. Our Meta Game does a great disservice to 'seekers' when we dismiss them as just wanting to get their lay numbers up. Of course that's only the recognizable motivator, but what they're really searching for, what they're unaware they're searching for, is a real, positive, confidence in a masculinity that can rise above the chatter of the feminized invective Meta Game.

When I see 5 pages of advice explaining to that noob the reasons he's in the situation he finds himself in, and instructing him how best to deal with it based on collective experiences while opening his perspective up to consider the greater landscape he's in, that is the masculine Meta Game pushing back. Think of that; a poor, isolated kid, frustrated by how to approach, how to deal with a LJBF, how to man-up, etc. pits the influence of a world-wide collective of men's experience against the behaviors and mindset of an individual girl who's been socialized and acculturated by the feminized imperative. That is the Meta Game.
 

samspade

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I discovered SS and the "Community" at almost the ideal time - in 2000, when I was 24, just striking out on my own, and when internet message boards and groups like this were really taking off beyond fringe and nerd organizations. Before that, the internet was a place for me to read newspapers and email people; I never dreamed that it would offer me what could be considered several lifetime's worth of knowledge on the overall subject of being a Man.

Prior to that, my life had sunk to a precipitous level. Yeah, I had some career direction, but overall my manhood was in poor shape. What had been my one saving grace - hooking up with drunken uglies in college - was evaporating as I entered the "real world." And I knew I needed to make a major change - but what?

I credit the internet with offering two new forms of freedom when it comes to the journey from AFC to DJ (and in many other forms of change and learning):

1. Prior to online communities, an AFC would be lucky if he could find a natural or a DJ from which to learn. However, not all DJs are necessarily willing or able to "teach." And even if they can lead by example, not all AFCs are capable of understanding how or why the behavior works.

2. AFCs - myself included back in the day - are overall more open to posting problems and learning in anonymous, online forums. Some of them are probably too ashamed, embarrassed, or stubborn to seek out the advice of their betters in this department. I'm not sure if it's part of the AFC construct or just human nature, but it's often easy for the frustrated one to feel condescended to, or humiliated, when being instructed. A willingness to change, online or offline, is important, but I believe that SS and other forums/sites have made it easier for AFCs to feel more comfortable accessing, inquiring and studying before and during the execution of actual personal change.

I say this because I think that when I was 24, I still believed that jerks were simply jerks, that my altruistic behavior would prevail in the long run, and that women were mysterious and unknowable anyway, so it was all a crapshoot to me. It did not occur to me to study the successful traits of others. Eventually I might have, but with SS I was able to pour over pages of information, like an historian who's discovered manuscripts which can save him years of guessing, trial, and error.

Overall I agree with you - the abundant knowledge found online for men is at least as powerful as any equal rights amendment or quota system or even contraceptive was for women. Sometimes when I'm on SS I'm impressed with how many men either "get it" or are learning it. On the other hand, all it takes is a jaunt to Loveshack or a read of Roissy's Beta of the Week to remind myself that there are still plenty of souls to save. We'll have to see what happens.
 

5string

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Rollo. I agree with you, and samspede is correct. There are many souls yet to save. Mine has been to an extent. This is rather personal, although I have PM'd a few guys on here with similar experiences as mine. Their compassion and advice has been invaluable. I found this site while researching BPD. A loved one had been dx with BPD. I won't give you the details, but can tell you this. When I found this site, I saw that I was not the only one who has dealt with such turmoil. It is said that 75% of those that have it are female. So, naturally, one will find many stories about it, how they dealt with it, how they tripped up and what they did that was wrong, and right. Years ago, I would have been a stumbling idiot trying to figure out what I was dealing with. It's the information age and we all have access to the information. Information is power. We all have our reasons for being here. I came here to get answers to my questions, and I did.
 
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taiyuu_otoko

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Rollo Tomassi said:
The genie is now out of the bottle, and for better or worse the information is liberating. This is the Meta-Game.
Totally different, IMO. Men discussing game on the Internet is merely a sharing of information. More often than not, that information is usually whining and vague advice that doesn't really help, and even if the advice is helpful, I doubt too many guys actually take the advice and apply it in the real world.

It is more like a place to brag, whine, and engage in the same kind of conversation that guys do in bars after work.

The women's movement, on the other hand, is more like the unionization of the pu$$y. It actually made women "feel" more powerful in the presence of men.

More often than not, internet discussions about women merely give men a false sense of superiority so that when they go out into social situations, instead of feeling like a pu$$y and not approaching, they feel superior and don't approach.

The result is the same.

The Internet provides another buffer for men to hide from facing their fears, unlike the women's movement, which allowed them to collectively realize the power they would hold when they regulated the pu$$y.
 

Tazman

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taiyuu_otoko said:
Totally different, IMO. Men discussing game on the Internet is merely a sharing of information. More often than not, that information is usually whining and vague advice that doesn't really help, and even if the advice is helpful, I doubt too many guys actually take the advice and apply it in the real world.

It is more like a place to brag, whine, and engage in the same kind of conversation that guys do in bars after work.

The women's movement, on the other hand, is more like the unionization of the pu$$y. It actually made women "feel" more powerful in the presence of men.

More often than not, internet discussions about women merely give men a false sense of superiority so that when they go out into social situations, instead of feeling like a pu$$y and not approaching, they feel superior and don't approach.

The result is the same.

The Internet provides another buffer for men to hide from facing their fears, unlike the women's movement, which allowed them to collectively realize the power they would hold when they regulated the pu$$y.
I have to disagree. This site offered ideas that were quite profound, to me atleast. I became addicted to reading and sometimes participating in discussions because the real world results I was seeing was so overwhelming. Women were no longer a mystery to me. It never ceased to amaze me how easily I could react to women in such a way that they would lay their cards on the table for me to clearly see.

This site is only a buffer if all you're doing is reading and not "applying" anything. I have no idea who is and who isn't getting out there and actually making a real effort, but I myself haven't been in a better place since coming here.

I think the greatest revelation to me was realizing I had it in me all along. I just had to deprogram myself (indoctrination) and feel more comfortable asserting my own agenda. I never really incorporated routines and lines, because I knew deep down I was an interesting enough person, I just had to stop caring so much about what women thought of me. That and understanding the fundamental things women want, it really cuts out all the fluff and bs that's intended to confuse us.

I think these discussions have been and continue to be very important.
 

horaholic

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Damn, I feel old now!
 

Jeffst1980

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Interesting thread...I was fortunate enough to discover this stuff right out of high school- but back then, the dominant paradigm was Ross Jeffries-style-NLP game, which I found pretty useless. In fact, it took another 4 or 5 years before I was truly able to implement much of what I read in real world situations.

Part of me wonders how much of the theory is actually making its way into practice, and, conversely, how much of the success guys are having here is purely a result of meta-game and not their own natural curiosity and problem solving ability. We can't really know either with any precision; all we can say is that the information is out there.

A lot of what we preach is actually quite intuitive--anyone that has dated a number of girls will reach the same conclusions so long as their ego doesn't cloud their thinking. Take a look at this:

http://restructure.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/sexist-feynman-called-a-woman-worse-than-a-*****/

Richard Feynman unplugged from the Matrix long before this site existed! Sure, it's just an amusing anecdote, but it shows that there's really nothing new under the sun. Current schools of pickup have been modified only to incorporate changes in society and technology--the core principles remain the same.

At the same time, one can have complete, unrestricted access to PUA material and STILL fail in the real world. In fact, I'd wager that the "community" has gone mainstream only as far as it is recognized to exist--9 out of 10 guys have NO INTEREST in actually using this stuff! Guys will read something and then go out and try it, inevitably fail, and then give up and come to label it as snake oil--not understanding that it takes YEARS to go from AFC to DJ. It requires a time commitment and a lifestyle change that most men will not be willing to make.

We have a TON of knowledge at our disposal, thanks to the internet. We can learn how to get rich, how to speak another language, and how to master nearly any complex subject, simply by utilizing what exists online. But, most of us won't--because mastery of ANYTHING does not come from reading; it comes from doing.

The next step is to figure out what has ACTUALLY been effective, and how much of our advice is ACTUALLY being implemented. It's HARD to implement this stuff--if you've been cheated on and heartbroken and your ex comes back to you, you probably know in your gut that it's a bad decision to sleep with her again without having to consult Sosuave...but, will you do it anyway? If you don't have better options, you will. End of story. We see posters here ignore good, obvious advice all the time. Neither gender thinks rationally about love and sex, when you get right down to it.

I think real world bootcamps have been the most effective instruction for pickup--an AFC NEEDS someone to force him to approach. Now, how about a real world analog for AFC relationship issues?
 

boomerick

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I found, read extensivly, and used info from this and other sites to turn my rapidly failing marriage around.

It was and is amazing to me to read the stuff then try it and see it work exactly as explained.

It was and is also amazing to be able to read women to be able to in fact predict and or anticipate their actions with good to great accuracy.

I found out through reading here that I was a sort of natural at pick-up which explained my disproportionate success (even though I had no idea I was doing these things) but that I was a total chump white knight in relationships when I bothered with them.

I knew nothing of this and just thought it was what everyone went through.

What really helped me was all of the stuff on being a man.

I was raised by mom only (she drove dad away to bankrupsy and another state) to be a total chump and finding the info here allowed me to see that I was going about things all wrong.

As I implemented more of the ideas and techniques found here my life REALLY changed for the better.

I count myself (and my son now) as saved due directly to information and ideas from this site.

Thanks guys.

Over and Out.
 
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