The manosphere is producing unresponsiblie adult men

[backbreaker]

I think i have finally figured out the issue i have with the manosphere in general. it isn't pick up tactics in general. It isn't one thing in general. It's that the entire culture promotes a culture of not being held accountable to be an adult grown male. And that is something that i have a problem with

Now if you want to have a good job / career you are ovboiusly doing it to get chicks and that's what betas do so **** that


now if you want to have a family you are ovbiously doing it to make a woman happy and you know we can't do that so **** that. it's not like men actualy want kids </sarcasm>


i've even read posts / blogs that talk about spending money on half decent clothes makes you a beta male.


and at some point, when is it ever okay for a man to do some **** beucse that's just what men do?


I'm not going to suggest what I believe is happening because i don't want to turn this into a 10 page flame fest


but at what point did the blue pill begin to stand for everything that has anything to do with responsibility and accountability?

at one point, the blue pill was just about me not understanding how the dating scene worked, not understanding how the dynamics of male / female relationships worked.

now it's seemingly about anything that has to do with responsibility.



this is manosphere logic. **** this is a meme in itself


girl: i want kids
male: you want kids therefore kids are bad


the answer to a woman wanting kids is not for you to not want them rotfl WTF man lol? the answer to a woman wanting a man with a nice career is not for you to not try lol.


the mind ****ing man come on


and IMHO, this issue here, is the undisclosed reason why you see a lot of men just drift away from the scene. not the blaant racism, beucase that i can deal with to a large extent. Not the ****ty advise beucase it's pretty easy to recitfy ****ty advise. but the more you get out there, the more lfe you lie you realise that there is nothing BETA about being a responsiblle adult male which is what the manosphere now advocates again


why am i bringing this up? Beucase this is a fixible issue? We need to cleary define what the red pill is. we need to draw a clear line between what the red pill is and what your choices are as a man are and not combine the 2 beucase of a persons personal beliefs or even their experiences. just beucas eyou have had a ****ty marriage doesn't mean that marriages are ****ty. i've never had any luck at all dating asian women in fact my worst rejections ever hae come from asian women and you have never seen me say 1 bad word about asian women i don't say asian women are bad and evil and can't be gotten just because i was not able to get one


my fear and the sole reason that i am typing this thread out, is because if you don't draw that clear cut line between my personal choices as a male and what is the red pill, a person will think that one is with the other, decide that i want to have a nice career and a family more than i want to be a PUA, and toss the baby out with the bathwater, because he doesn't come here doesn't take the advice on how to screen a woman out from the crowd, and then get burned.

which would ironically enough then turn him the guy i'm talking about at the top of the post.



fr all the **** i gie this site these days there is some very, very pratical advise. there is a guy i know who is liking thuis girl for instance and she has 2 kids. i sent him to this site about 2 months ago and made him read some posts about single moms. knocked that **** right out lol. site serviced it's purpose. this girl liked him but she liked him becuase he could play daddy not because she really liked him and i could tell that once she got him on lock the game would hae been over. this site not only explains stuff like that, but shows you how to look for signs that a woman likes you and not just your wallet or your job or whatever

but at times it can be too much. i dont' think posts where guys are allowed to equate the red pill with not having kids or working your ass off to make a lot of money, personal choices, should be permitted. because what if a guy loves his job, decides to not stay around because the advice conflicts with his personality and gets burned in a ****ty marriage or by a paternity test?


it's like in NA we tell people to have a god of your own understanding. my god can't be your god. it CAN be but it doens't have to be. if i told you that you had to believe in the god of the bible half the room would get up and walk out and probably go back to using. NOT using is more imoprtant than any petty differences of religious beliefs. in this case, knowing how to screen a woman, knowing how to not get trapped, is more imoprtant than personal choices and beliefs of how one should live their lives IMHO

 

[jjacob]

This is the sort of feeling I get when I read the circle jerk known as the comments section on Chateau Heartiste. If I were to introduce someone to the red pill I'd just point them to Rollo's site and say read everything you find. Really don't need much more than that to get the idea

 

[Lexington]

The Westboro Baptist Church is a bunch of complete whackjobs who picket dead soldiers' funerals. They are Christians. Christians must all really suck.

Most of the high profile terrorist bombings are carried out by Muslims. Muslims are blood thirsty murderers. Let's declare war on Islam.

There are some Conservatives who wish to turn America into a Christian-based theocracy. The Conservative Movement is full of intolerant Christan fundamentalists.

Some Liberals want most major industries to be nationalized and very high taxes. All Liberals are communists.

See what I did there?

The "Manosphere" is a lot of different things. It's not monolithic. It's simply a discussion. There are some commonly agreed upon premises but that's about it. There is a variation of opinions and ideas.

Not every person in the "Manosphere" is against marriage. Take Rollo for example: married with a kid for 16+ years. There are blogs dedicated to married man game. There are blogs (such as Darlok's) that promote marriage as the backbone of society.

There are plenty of posts/blogs that promote making money and pursuing your dreams and passions. Lots of people do promote having children but only if you are ready for them and not because your wife/girlfriend is pressuring you into having them.

I do agree that there are lots of people with crazy ideas as well. I fully agree that there are lots of bitter, sexually frustrated men. Some guys are frankly clueless. But one can find extremists in any given large group of people.

 

[samspade]

The "manosphere" is a nonentity, a collection of individuals. Each is responsible for his own path.

Each person's beliefs are his own. Even if they came from a person, a blog, or a book, each person still has to willingly accept or reject what's presented before him. Therefore the manosphere cannot "produce" men of any type. It is as Lexington noted an exchange of ideas.

 

[PlayHer Man]

I think i have finally figured out the issue i have with the manosphere in general. it isn't pick up tactics in general. It isn't one thing in general. It's that the entire culture promotes a culture of not being held accountable to be an adult grown male. And that is something that i have a problem with

Now if you want to have a good job / career you are ovboiusly doing it to get chicks and that's what betas do so **** that


now if you want to have a family you are ovbiously doing it to make a woman happy and you know we can't do that so **** that. it's not like men actualy want kids </sarcasm>


i've even read posts / blogs that talk about spending money on half decent clothes makes you a beta male.


and at some point, when is it ever okay for a man to do some **** beucse that's just what men do?

You just don't get it bro. Also.. why are you so mad? If you're happy with your MARRIAGE and being a "responsible" man.. then why do you give a f*ck if others choose a different path?

And getting back to how you just don't get it --> The red pill is not about being an irresponsible douche bag for the sake of being an irresponsible douche bag.. nore is it about being contrary to women and seeing everything they desire as the opposite of what we as men should desire.

The red pill is about never engaging in behavior JUST because its what a woman wants. So if you want kids.. then have them because YOU want them.. not because a woman is pressuring you. If you want marriage (your an idiot) but do it because YOU want it. Not because some woman wants it.

The red pill is about a man doing whatever he wants regardless of whether it benefits or angers women. You can call that "irresponsible", but what most men want is often good for women in the end. Too bad most women are too stupid to realize this.

Clearly your wife has brainwashed you into becoming a white knight and believing MEN are the problem (and the ONLY problem) in the world. Women are prefect and harmless. They can't be held accountable for anything.

Women's ability to con men into believing they are too immature, weak and emotional to ever be accountable for their actions is possibly one of the greatest and most successful con jobs pulled on the male gender in history. :crackup: :crackup:

 

[Zarky]

And the loser brigade chimes in -- all in a row -- as usual

 

[( . )( . )]

The manosphere is producing unresponsible adult men

Your right. We need more "grrrrl world" guidance.

Attention hor + Controversial topic = Genius.

They be a bitin !!

 

[Who Dares Win]

I try to keep my posts polite and respectful but its impossible near such amount of bvll****.

The manosphere is the direct conseguence of the unfair state of things in the western world, the manosphere is no different that a bunch of angry men no longer tolerant against injustice which decide to take the bastille and start the revolution.

The manosphere simply tells me to stop being slaves, good only to work and pay taxes to feed a system that enslaves them, the manosphere simply tells them that there is an alternative to live your youth humiliated and sex deprived only to be forced to get a chain from a fat old cvm dump of a woman which own your property and dignity the same moment she puts a ring on your finger.

Is that so hard to understand or its your wife to finally wear the trousers at home?

The manosphere is an umbrella built from a man which was tired of having sh1t thrown at him, those complaining about the manosphere are the ones which were throwing the sh1t and now have it splashed it back.

 

[samspade]

backbreaker, I'm going to borrow a line from the GOP here. The Manosphere is a big tent party. It welcomes all kinds. What a man wants to do with his life is his prerogative. Marriage, single, celibate. The beauty of the Manosphere is to get men thinking about their priorities in life and whom they're here to serve (THEMSELVES). If that means being a family man, or a single player, or even an out of the closet homosexual, so be it. It's living the life that's right for you. Women are welcome to contribute too, but of course as we've seen it's not always for the faint of heart - so they'd better be ready to check their bullshyt at the door. (Ha! Right.)

Who Dares Win summed it up really well. The same old stories about what you are supposed to be in life (a slave to the government, the company, the wife, the kids, the military, etc.) are dumped on the ash heap in the manosphere. That is NOT tantamount to saying dedication to those institutions is bad - IF it's what YOU want to do.

The Red Pill and the Blue Pill have been defined. They're movie and pop culture terms appropriated as metaphor. I know a few married Red Pill guys. Shyt, I was married and the whole time I knew the deal. There are guys around here who are married and know. You are either blind to the illusions out there or you're enlightened.

If there are other guys at the party who detest marriage and believe it's worthless, let them. Nobody's ever going to agree with you 100%. Don't fall into the trap of believing everyone should think as you do. Debate is fine, but accept that people have different viewpoints. Most guys are in the manosphere because they want to dominate women and exercise some control over their lives. As long as it's about that, I'm fine with a variety of opinions.

Look at LiveFreeX. He thinks I'm a fool because I got divorced. I've got nothing against the guy, he just has a different set of opinions and I accept that. But he's obviously on SS for a reason and I'm sure we have some overlap of opinion. I believe in many ways the guy is living life the way he wants to.

For me it's one of the few "brotherhoods" I feel comfortable in. I like the guys that are in it and I like the goals. There's always room for debate. But until it gets hijacked by a truly sickening ideology (The Big F), differing opinions are welcome. Really even feminists are welcome to try since their ideas are so lacking in merit anyway.

 

[Bokanovsky]

This. bb just likes to find any reason to sh*t on men in general.

BB is just an attention wh*re who likes to make "provocative" posts. I'm surprised that some people here still take him seriously. A guy who, judging by his level of grammar, never bothered to graduate from high school is accusing others of being "unresponsible". This is too rich.

 

[Senzoi]

... And he still hasn't explained to us why any adult grown male should care about his expectations of us.

 

[CollegeLife]

It's hard to find an exact post or blogger saying don't be accountable or quit your job. The reason why is because a lot is implied or derived as the ultimate conclusion of logic. If you read enough, you start to feel like that.

The manosphere is a big tent party. At the same time, I'm pretty sure Chateau Heartiste is one of the main voices of the sphere. He never quite say it like that and response sometimes clarifying away from that conclusion. But here are two very recent posts.

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/dan-and-nadine/

When you read the last paragraph "Acquaintances who knew Dan would say if asked that he was a happy, well-adjusted man. A real stand-up guy, a normal guy. The sort of guy who had everything going for him."

How does the idea of being described as a "real stand-up guy, a normal guy" feels after reading that?

Or this one: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/chicks-digging-jerks-goes-mainstreamish/

None of that says to drop being responsible. Heartiste said straight a few weeks ago that it's about the attitude. But keep reading about the lengths the women go at throwing themselves at bombers, murders, and sociopaths while thinking about the numbers of guys who can be described as the opposite of a sociopath, and you start to question all aspect of yourself: like working in a decent job and generally be not a total ass.

 

[zekko]

To, being a responsible adult is the very essence of being masculine. A man stands on his own two feet, takes responsibility for himself, supports himself (and possibly others), takes care of his business, and handles any situation that comes up.

I don't get the whole "check out of society because it doesn't reward males" idea. Who is going to be fulfilled sitting in their parents' basement playing Xbox? Women are out there carving a place for themselves in the world, how can men do anything less? Will the world be a better place once all the world's wealth is transferred to female hands and men have nothing?

I don't want children myself, because I'm selfish that way. But I really feel for guys who want kids today, and a family. To get what they want, they're going to have to put themselves into an inherently risky position.

None of that says to drop being responsible. Heartiste said straight a few weeks ago that it's about the attitude. But keep reading about the lengths the women go at throwing themselves at bombers, murders, and sociopaths while thinking about the numbers of guys who can be described as the opposite of a sociopath, and you start to question all aspect of yourself: like working in a decent job and generally be not a total ass.

Guys here are always bringing up the bombers and sociopaths and whatnot. Personally, I don't know any women who are pursuing serial killers, do you? It's a big world out there, you can find examples of about anything. I do know of a few female workers in the department of corrections who pursued a few prisoners, but they were morbidly obese and more resembled wildebeests than actual women.

 

[Big Nuts]

The manosphere will "re-produce" the men that ultimately built our civilization.

We know the manginas won't. Too busy pedestalizing females who won't fvck them and deriding men who wanna be men.

 

[zekko]

Chateau Heartiste is one of the main voices of the sphere. He never quite say it like that and response sometimes clarifying away from that conclusion. But here are two very recent posts.

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/dan-and-nadine/

When you read the last paragraph "Acquaintances who knew Dan would say if asked that he was a happy, well-adjusted man. A real stand-up guy, a normal guy. The sort of guy who had everything going for him."

How does the idea of being described as a "real stand-up guy, a normal guy" feels after reading that?

I'm no fan of Heartiste, but I did like that article. Of course it's just fiction, written up to demonstrate the point he wants to make. But whatever.

Dan's problem is he's boring, he's clueless, and he's way too invested in Nadine, a girl he hasn't even really made any substantial move on. He also doesn't have Robert's quick wit. Of course Robert hasn't made any substantial move on Nadine either, but apparently she prefers him anyway.

Dan's main crime I guess is being mediocre.

I didn't care for the other article so much. The women who are going after serial killers are not women I am in competition for anyway. Not even for a quick fvck. I could care less what they do.

I think numbers of men doing this are over-exaggerated. Sure lots of men will play COD with buddies and stuff, but I think only the truly socially awkwards are making a life of gaming.

That may well be so. But the point is there are a lot of men who are underperforming, and there are those in the manosphere who see this as a good thing and encourage it. Maybe they are hoping for the big societal meltdown that will restore males to their primary position.

 

[zekko]

Underperforming by which standards and according to who?

That is a very general statement and unfairly places the blame on men for a nebulous metric defined by an equally nebulous entity.

Women are now going to college and earning degrees at a higher rate than men. Some say this is because "women do better in school because they're passive". But this is a fairly new phenomenon, and it was not this way in even the recent past.

This is significant because there is a big correlation between education level and wage, and this is more true now than ever before. While it's true that men are more likely to seek entepreneurial pursuits than women, this is still a case of men dropping the ball. They're not doing what it takes to succeed in this economy. Men lost jobs at a rate far exceeding women in the recent recession.

You can sit here and make excuses for men all day or play the victim card, but I would rather see them rise to the occasion. That, to me, is the manly thing to do.

 

[PlayHer Man]

Women are now going to college and earning degrees at a higher rate than men. Some say this is because "women do better in school because they're passive". But this is a fairly new phenomenon, and it was not this way in even the recent past.

This is significant because there is a big correlation between education level and wage, and this is more true now than ever before. While it's true that men are more likely to seek entepreneurial pursuits than women, this is still a case of men dropping the ball. They're not doing what it takes to succeed in this economy. Men lost jobs at a rate far exceeding women in the recent recession.

You can sit here and make excuses for men all day or play the victim card, but I would rather see them rise to the occasion. That, to me, is the manly thing to do.

Human beings (especially men) are reward based. They don't work just for the sake of working. There needs to be a REWARD, an INCENTIVE, a PAY OFF. Being considered "manly" is hardly a good enough reason to do anything. Its vain at best. Women are the ones who care about "image". Men care about RESULTS.

There is really no such thing as a "lazy" person. Laziness occurs when a person sees no worthwhile reward for working hard or trying hard.

Remember that for most men... their primary motivation is women. If they can get women without being successful then why be successful?

Men who work towards success today are motivated by things outside of p*ssy such as power and freedom. At least those are my primary motivators. If it was just p*ssy, then I wouldn't bother busting my ass. P*ssy is easy to get.

No incentive = No action.

Simple as that.

 

[zekko]

Human beings (especially men) are reward based. They don't work just for the sake of working. There needs to be a REWARD, an INCENTIVE, a PAY OFF. Being considered "manly" is hardly a good enough reason to do anything. Its vain at best. Women are the ones who care about "image". Men care about RESULTS.

I'll agree with that, reward and results. But rather than "image", I would also consider being responsible and manly a matter of honor. I realize not everybody thinks that way though.

Remember that for most men... their primary motivation is women. If they can get women without being successful then why be successful?

Men who work towards success today are motivated by things outside of p*ssy such as power and freedom. At least those are my primary motivators. If it was just p*ssy, then I wouldn't bother busting my ass. P*ssy is easy to get.

That same point is made by at least a segment of the manosphere. And it is a shame that the positions of husband and father are no longer properly respected or appreciated in today's society. So I do think it's true that a large part of the incentive for men has been removed.

 

[PlayHer Man]

All the reasons modern men no longer "give a sh!t" are well explained here:

Link --> http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=199204

Lots of deep and revealing information in that thread. It basically explains everything perfectly.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Sorry, but I have to ask, BACKBREAKER, how long have you been married now?