The line between c/f and arrogance...

[darkjedi]

Yo DJ's! I need some advice on the usage of c/f please. I started using it on women I'm dating as well as women I am attempting to pick up and it has had very positive results. They think I'm so funny, have a great sense of humor, hit me playfully, ect... In short, this is what I expected and love it! It seems there is always an exception to the rule and I believe I have found it. Let me explain.

I've been seeing a woman now for a little over 2 months. We hook up 1-2 times a week and I also call 1-2 times a week only to setup dates. We go out, have a great time, head back to my place and end up having sex. No problems here. Now, I've been using the whole c/f routine on her since day one. I thought it was working to my advantage. Last night she came over and we were talking and of course I tried to escalate things to sex... It was a no go and in fact she was ready to leave. I could tell something was on her mind and to summarize what she said, she indicated that I was arrogant, did not care about her or her feelings, not a sensitive person, and that I joke around too much and was never serious about anything. Ouch!

Now, she has indicated that she is not ready for a LTR and quite frankly I don't want one right now, but I would like to continue seeing her and leave it as an option in the future as I really do have a great time with her and enjoy seeing her. She feels the same way too which I why I did what I am going to explain next.

I really hated having to do what I did next as I've worked so hard not to ever have to go this route again. I basically had to resort to AFC tactics to "clean" things up. In summary, I told her that I really do care for her and her feelings, really would like to continue seeing her, expressed to her that I have a hard time sharing my feelings, and apologized for my actions. I also told her that she would be the only woman I would want to continue dating. Yeah I know I will be flamed for what I did, but here is the point of this post and what draws my question. It worked! She accepted this and immediately jumped back on me to proceed to a 45 min make out session (no sex because it was late and she had drive home to get some sleep for work) and when she got home she text'd me that she had a great time with me tonight, ect... We are also going out for lunch tomorrow (I've never been out with her during the day for lunch) so it seems things are ok again.

So, given the above situation and anything in the future I may encounter, where do you draw the line and what is the best way to avoid situations like this one? C/F pretty much has to be used, but what's the best way to repair the damage if it does appear to the woman you have gone too far? Do some women like the woman mentioned in this post really do not like c/f and you have to be somewhat AFC to satisfy them? In this case would it be best not to use c/f? I would appreciate any opinions and field reports on this one as now I don't know if I should continue using c/f when I'm with this woman.

 

[darkjedi]

C+F doesn't work for good looking guys, and it doesn't work after 1 month mark when you're in a relationship. By then, she's already attracted to you.. no need to act ****y anymore, you just come off as an arrogant pr1ck.

She begins to think you don't take her seriously and in general you're being too much of an as$hole.

A girlfriend is attracted to the badboy guy, but when she wants to tame him, and that's the only way she'll be in a relationship with him. Otherwise, she'll kick him to the curb, on terms that he doesn't care about her.

What I have to say is, it's probabily gone too far to be able to mend it, so enjoy the relationship, enjoy the sex, try to soften up and cut the jokes ASAP.

Hey, thanks for the quick reply! Not to be ****y (no pun intended) I'm not a bad looking guy and do keep myself up. You do mention many great points and I have to say at least in my case you are right on the money. I'm not in a relationship with her and it's clear that she is not ready (she just got out of a very LTR) and I'm not looking to do that right away. I believe now that I am coming across like you have mentioned.

So, I understand now that c/f has to be toned down at this point. What's the best way to combine all of this (cutting down on the c/f, softening up, and showing that I care without being AFC)? Basically, I don't want her to get bored with me and think I am too nice, needy, not a challenge ect... but again I don't want her to think I'm a pr!ck.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

C+F doesn't work for good looking guys, and it doesn't work after 1 month mark when you're in a relationship. By then, she's already attracted to you.. no need to act ****y anymore, you just come off as an arrogant pr1ck.

She begins to think you don't take her seriously and in general you're being too much of an as$hole.

A girlfriend is attracted to the badboy guy, but when she wants to tame him, and that's the only way she'll be in a relationship with him. Otherwise, she'll kick him to the curb, on terms that he doesn't care about her.

What I have to say is, it's probabily gone too far to be able to mend it, so enjoy the relationship, enjoy the sex, try to soften up and cut the jokes ASAP.

I have to agree with DjDan once gain, for the most part, at least.

****y/Funny does work for good looking guys and/or on HB8 and below, but it must be toned down a little, until you calibrate and see what kind of vibe and what kind of sense of humor she has, if any. So don't generalize, always figure out as soon as possible is she is in the norm or the exception to the rule.

****y/Funny also needs to be tone down when you are in a relationship. The incident described by darkjedi is a perfect example of her acting that way in order to get you to tone it down and tell her how much you want her. She was feeling insecure and needed you to reasure her. You did right. She most likely wants a relationship, but since she thinks you don't, she doesn't want to feel rejected so she says she's not looking for one either.

 

[Nygard]

I think all the C+F and other stuff were to pick women. However, relationships are somethign different, because it compromises other different variables that did not matter before. But, i dont quite know, i havent been long in a relationship

 

[darkjedi]

I have to agree with DjDan once gain, for the most part, at least.

****y/Funny does work for good looking guys and/or on HB8 and below, but it must be toned down a little, until you calibrate and see what kind of vibe and what kind of sense of humor she has, if any. So don't generalize, always figure out as soon as possible is she is in the norm or the exception to the rule.

****y/Funny also needs to be tone down when you are in a relationship. The incident described by darkjedi is a perfect example of her acting that way in order to get you to tone it down and tell her how much you want her. She was feeling insecure and needed you to reasure her. You did right. She most likely wants a relationship, but since she thinks you don't, she doesn't want to feel rejected so she says she's not looking for one either.

Gangster, the quality of your advice always exceeds my expectations. This is exactly what I was looking for. FYI this is the same woman you gave me advice on last week.

 

[backbreaker]

C+F doesn't work for good looking guys, and it doesn't work after 1 month mark when you're in a relationship. By then, she's already attracted to you.. no need to act ****y anymore, you just come off as an arrogant pr1ck.

She begins to think you don't take her seriously and in general you're being too much of an as$hole.

A girlfriend is attracted to the badboy guy, but when she wants to tame him, and that's the only way she'll be in a relationship with him. Otherwise, she'll kick him to the curb, on terms that he doesn't care about her.

What I have to say is, it's probabily gone too far to be able to mend it, so enjoy the relationship, enjoy the sex, try to soften up and cut the jokes ASAP.

this might be the worst advice I have ever heard.
]

I'm not a believer in ****y funny.. I don't even like saying ****y funny. Life is not a stand up rotine.

ANYONE who can put a smile on a woman's face by laughing is ahead of the game. good looking or if you look like ET.

Some times as a matter of fact, if you are good looking and you are intimdating the girl, making her smile, laugh, gets the tension gone and she can open up, once she sees you are "just one of the guys"

I'm natrually funny, it's never something I had to work at.. It's just being me. when I"m being funny I'm not using a routine, I'm just me in a good mood

C+F doesn't work for good looking guys, and it doesn't work after 1 month mark when you're in a relationship

what you think after a month women just stop liking jokes and don't like to laugh? part of the reason most relationships dont' last is people think they have to shed **** once it starts

the problem people make is that isntead of actually becoming a person of humor, they use routines and eventually routines die. Women want a man that in 1-2-10 years can still crack a joke and make light of a situtation. bust her balls when she's spilled something on her dress and make light of the bad food she cooks..

she indicated that I was arrogant,

a woman would rather suck off an arrogant guy than to to kiss an insecure guy 8 days a week. neither is GREAT but I'd rather be arrogant than be insecure about myself.. i've been called arrogant.

Arrogance to me is a term used by people who are unsure of themselves in reference to people who are sure of themselves.

As long as you don't go talking down to people and dont' just keep saying "***** I'm the ****" you are doing ntohign wrong. more times than not when a man calls me arrogant.. it's a last defense to get a girl to not fvck me and fvck him instead because he's "so nice".

My last GF used to call me cursing me out when I openly told her I was fvcking other women (Before we dated), called me an arrogant *******, etc... and would drive over my house at 3 in the morning in the pouring rain when I called her.

I'd be somewhat caucious..when you are buliding yourself up you hve to show her that in some way shape or form, she is special... although she is privilaged to be with you... you apprciate what she brings to the table as well.

Now, she has indicated that she is not ready for a LTR and quite frankly I don't want one right now, but I would like to continue seeing her and leave it as an option in the future as I really do have a great time with her and enjoy seeing her. She feels the same way too which I why I did what I am going to explain next.

which proves my opint.. what she is saying is nothing but jibberish..

I basically had to resort to AFC tactics to "clean" things up.

NOT AFC things.. this will drive her away and she will wonder "what has changed about you".
just know how to balance things. Smack her on the ass and show her how yot you think she is from time to time. Give her a compliment, a real one, to let her know you think she's the ****... but you know that you are to. nothign wrong with knowing you are the **** contrary to waht TV and some people might tell you otherwise. It seems to be the popular thing to be JOe blowe, the loser who "gets lucky" with women from time to time.

vI told her that I really do care for her and her feelings, really would like to continue seeing her, expressed to her that I have a hard time sharing my feelings, and apologized for my actions

you fvcked up. this was all but a **** test and you failed. Fisrt.. don't apologize for being yourself. if she doesn't like who YOU ARE, LEAVE. it's that simple. we weren't ment to be. however, what has SHE done to be exlsuvie besides fvck you from time to time? HOld the woman accountable.
Every woman who gave me that talk I would tell them.. "when you prove to me that you are worth being with, and yo uonly.. I will, you have my word.. but i'm not going to put a square peg in a round hole... you hae to show me you fit over time"

when she got home she text'd me that she had a great time with me tonight, ect... We are also going out for lunch tomorrow (I've never been out with her during the day for lunch) so it seems things are ok again.

already, not 1 hour after your confessions you go from a woman doing anything to get over your house in the mist of the night to freakin lunch dates? lunch dates are the worst dates of all. what's wrong with taking a woman to your house and cooking a romantic dinner.. god forbid that she finds out you want to screw her.



you are head of the game despite of what I said.. very much so. but you have to understand.. a DJ can and will walk away and take his ball home if he can't play the game by his rules. women have to, espically in this day in age, prove their worth.

 

[Jovan]

Thank you backbreaker for enlightening these fools...

and DjDan where did you get that ****y and funny doesn't work after 1 month mark nonsense???

 

[darkjedi]

this might be the worst advice I have ever heard.
]

I'm not a believer in ****y funny.. I don't even like saying ****y funny. Life is not a stand up rotine.

ANYONE who can put a smile on a woman's face by laughing is ahead of the game. good looking or if you look like ET.

Some times as a matter of fact, if you are good looking and you are intimdating the girl, making her smile, laugh, gets the tension gone and she can open up, once she sees you are "just one of the guys"

I'm natrually funny, it's never something I had to work at.. It's just being me. when I"m being funny I'm not using a routine, I'm just me in a good mood

what you think after a month women just stop liking jokes and don't like to laugh? part of the reason most relationships dont' last is people think they have to shed **** once it starts

the problem people make is that isntead of actually becoming a person of humor, they use routines and eventually routines die. Women want a man that in 1-2-10 years can still crack a joke and make light of a situtation. bust her balls when she's spilled something on her dress and make light of the bad food she cooks..

I'm as well a naturally funny guy and can pretty much bust on a girl without a problem. I am confident I could entertain a woman for the long run and it would not appear to be a routine as again, I'm naturally funny and very outgoing. Prior to learning about c/f I used to be afraid of busting on women and joking around. C/F has taught me that this is ok and the results has shown me this. The problem is that as with most good things and as DJDan and Gangster advised I went too far and it appeared that I was not interested in her coming across as arrogant.

a woman would rather suck off an arrogant guy than to to kiss an insecure guy 8 days a week. neither is GREAT but I'd rather be arrogant than be insecure about myself.. i've been called arrogant.

Arrogance to me is a term used by people who are unsure of themselves in reference to people who are sure of themselves.

As long as you don't go talking down to people and dont' just keep saying "***** I'm the ****" you are doing ntohign wrong. more times than not when a man calls me arrogant.. it's a last defense to get a girl to not fvck me and fvck him instead because he's "so nice".

My last GF used to call me cursing me out when I openly told her I was fvcking other women (Before we dated), called me an arrogant *******, etc... and would drive over my house at 3 in the morning in the pouring rain when I called her.

I'd be somewhat caucious..when you are buliding yourself up you hve to show her that in some way shape or form, she is special... although she is privilaged to be with you... you apprciate what she brings to the table as well.

I agree with this point. I never go around talking down to people or talking to make myself look better than someone else. I almost 100% of the time use c/f to bust on a woman and to get a reaction out of her. Again, I think I used too much of it which shows by her reaction last night. I really have never showed her in the past 2 months seeing her that she was special as I didn't want to appear needy, too nice, ect... Now at this point I guess that's ok?

NOT AFC things.. this will drive her away and she will wonder "what has changed about you".
just know how to balance things. Smack her on the ass and show her how yot you think she is from time to time. Give her a compliment, a real one, to let her know you think she's the ****... but you know that you are to. nothign wrong with knowing you are the **** contrary to waht TV and some people might tell you otherwise. It seems to be the popular thing to be JOe blowe, the loser who "gets lucky" with women from time to time.

This is a good point and addresses another of my questions . I will start applying this with her.

you fvcked up. this was all but a **** test and you failed. Fisrt.. don't apologize for being yourself. if she doesn't like who YOU ARE, LEAVE. it's that simple. we weren't ment to be. however, what has SHE done to be exlsuvie besides fvck you from time to time? HOld the woman accountable.
Every woman who gave me that talk I would tell them.. "when you prove to me that you are worth being with, and yo uonly.. I will, you have my word.. but i'm not going to put a square peg in a round hole... you hae to show me you fit over time"

I expected this...

already, not 1 hour after your confessions you go from a woman doing anything to get over your house in the mist of the night to freakin lunch dates? lunch dates are the worst dates of all. what's wrong with taking a woman to your house and cooking a romantic dinner.. god forbid that she finds out you want to screw her.

I don't mind the lunch thing too much as I know pretty much 99% certain that I could get her over to my place any other time during the week. Plus throughout the whole 2 months seeing her, we have never had lunch together so it will be something different and maybe she will think something of it.

 

[darkjedi]

double post

 

[backbreaker]

as well a naturally funny guy and can pretty much bust on a girl without a problem. I am confident I could entertain a woman for the long run and it would not appear to be a routine as again, I'm naturally funny and very outgoing. Prior to learning about c/f I used to be afraid of busting on women and joking around. C/F has taught me that this is ok and the results has shown me this. The problem is that as with most good things and as DJDan and Gangster advised I went too far and it appeared that I was not interested in her coming across as arrogant.

so in otherwords CF has taught you it's okay to be who you actually were in the first place? I can live with that

I agree with this point. I never go around talking down to people or talking to make myself look better than someone else. I almost 100% of the time use c/f to bust on a woman and to get a reaction out of her. Again, I think I used too much of it which shows by her reaction last night. I really have never showed her in the past 2 months seeing her that she was special as I didn't want to appear needy, too nice, ect... Now at this point I guess that's ok?

which proves my opint.. what she is saying is nothing but jibberish..

the question then you need to ask is.. what is her mental state. she doesnt' sound like she has the highest self esteem on earth.

You can only do so much. if a woman has low self esteem you have to know the warning signs

I don't mind the lunch thing too much as I know pretty much 99% certain that I could get her over to my place any other time during the week. Plus throughout the whole 2 months seeing her, we have never had lunch together so it will be something different and maybe she will think something of it.

ahh.. agree to disagree. I HATE lunch dates. mainly because there is no good ending. if she doesn't like you, lunch dates don't raise IL.. they provide her with free food.

If she DOES like you she is going to want to spend the rest of the day with you and I ahve to get back to work, or start working.. I've missed plenty a post times becuase women wanted to get aquickie in before I left and I've lost money because of it.

 

[darkjedi]

the question then you need to ask is.. what is her mental state. she doesnt' sound like she has the highest self esteem on earth.

You can only do so much. if a woman has low self esteem you have to know the warning signs

I would say you are right about her self esteem. She was in a LTR with a guy she met in high school (she's 23 now) for about 5 years and they planned on getting married. It ended and she wants nothing to do with him. She has never dated anyone before and I'm the first guy she has dated since her breakup. I kind of understand where she is coming from and can understand why she is messed up and confused about the whole "dating" process.

ahh.. agree to disagree. I HATE lunch dates. mainly because there is no good ending. if she doesn't like you, lunch dates don't raise IL.. they provide her with free food.

If she DOES like you she is going to want to spend the rest of the day with you and I ahve to get back to work, or start working.. I've missed plenty a post times becuase women wanted to get aquickie in before I left and I've lost money because of it.

Again, her IL is still pretty high in me despite all of this. We both work during the day and could not afford to do anything more than lunch at least during work hours. I was thinking that going to lunch with her would show her that I want more than just having her come over and getting sex out of her.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

C+F doesn't work for good looking guys, and it doesn't work after 1 month mark when you're in a relationship. By then, she's already attracted to you.. no need to act ****y anymore, you just come off as an arrogant pr1ck...

I'd challenge that. C/F can allow a guy to appear confident, comedic, assertive, easy going, playful among other things. What woman who's attracted to you would want you to stop having those characteristics in a relationship if those were the things that attracted her in the first place? Either she was yanking your chain in order to get something or you can not pull off c/f without looking like an ass.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Thank you backbreaker for enlightening these fools...

I think we're finding out who understand c/f.

Way too often guys confuse c/f with neg-hits.

 

[backbreaker]

fransciso... I could hve sworn you were 39 yesterday

 

[traffic]

, she indicated that I was arrogant, did not care about her or her feelings, not a sensitive person, and that I joke around too much and was never serious about anything.

Say this to her, "if you don't like it, there's the door."

There are plenty of limp wristed fools out there for her to end up miserable with. I wouldn't try to stop her.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

fransciso... I could hve sworn you were 39 yesterday

I was 39 a lifetime ago...

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

you're a 40 year old guy. you're obviously not good looking. probabily going bald with a belly... let's not forget the beer gut... you probabily also can't dress worth of sh1t, like most middle aged men. pants up to the chest and lacking any sense of fashion.

This is why you're having problem's with c/f, your arrogance is holding you back. That and a lack of personality and you're too naive (immature) to recognize it.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Why TRY to appear, when you can just BE?

You're coming from a lower level than I am. ...

I'm glad that you at least believe that you're so great. You keep telling yourself that as long as you keep screaming it at the top of your lungs that someone else will eventually believe it too.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

God you remind me of that movie "The 40 year old virgin"

Nice to see that you get most of your (limited) life skills through movies.

Master Don Juan.. my ass... get out there and stop posting already, you've got 11500 posts, don't you ever do anything else but talk trash on the internet?

Also nice to see that you are a guy with post envy. Goes without saying what other things that you obviously envious.

Your turn, to mesmerize us with your greatness again.

 

[beastmaster79]

nice posts backbreaker and franciso

francisco, you said that C/F allows you to appear fun, etc. to girls C/F is fun. they aren't thinking does this guy seem fun. you just put them in a good mood so they are attracted to you. the ****y part makes them feel that you are a challenge and maybe they might have to work to get you. that makes them feel even more attracted. girls are much more influenced by their feelings than by appearances. you can use appearances to impact their emotions but it is how you make them feel that really counts. this is why it is confusing that DJ's come in so many shapes and sizing. you can think girls like guys that look like this or have that job, etc. but the main thing DJ's have in common is making girls feel attraction. what counts is how we use what we've got to create these feelings. there are many ugly men who draw women to them and there are many good looking men who repel women. some have game and some don't.