Originally posted by Jariel
I disagree completely. Self-improvement includes developing charisma, social and conversation skills, humour, intelligence etc. That's infinitely more important than running some game on women.
Besides, many guys who make the most of themselves will find they don't need to go chasing women, because there are enough women making the moves. That's the the difference between a PUA and a DJ in my opinion.
It depends on what you consider self improvement. Mystery here seems to be defining it in superficial terms - better looks, more money, nicer clothes, more friends, etc. This kind of surface improvement only goes so far to attract girls.
If you want the girl that every guy does than you are already competing with other guys who have it together.
"Developing charisma, social and conversation skills, humour, intelligence etc" is not "infinitely more important than running game on some woman", it
is learning to run game on some woman. They are the same thing. I'd agree with you that both the superficial and the social can be counted as "self-improvement", the fact remains that this board is too obssessed with the former to excel at the latter.
I see what point you are trying to make about women making the moves, and it has merit, but 9 times out of 10 it's that woman not making any moves that I myself am interested in. When there's that girl that really stands out then I don't want to have to rely on her making all the moves. I enjoy the thrill of the hunt too much. Besides, there's a huge difference in my world between just getting laid and actually finding a girl worth spending time with. Don't get me wrong, I love it when a girl makes it easy for me - but only when it's easy whether I like her or not. A girl playing her role properly will subtly let me know she's interested without putting any pressure on me to move. I can ignore her if I want, but if I ask her to go out somewhere then she accepts at the drop of a hat. That's the first sign she's worth my time.
And, you see, by developing my social skills (as stated above) I find that girls are a lot more eager to spend more time with me. I know when I've led an awesome conversation, and the girl is a competent participant, the attraction becomes mutual. Everything is smooth and easy when both parties involved are clearly interested. This interest should be tentative at first, and grow (or diminish) as the conversation continues.
You also seem to think that the best way to meet girls is through aquaintences. This is one way I meet girls, and it is advantageous in that you are already marked as 'safe' and 'familiar' by being introduced by people she trusts, and girls almost expect to meet potential partners like this so she's definitely more open to the idea. It also has its disadvantages. I can almost gaurantee that if one/some of your guy friends introduce you to an attractive girl, they've been trying to run game on her (or wish they could). A lot of sour grapes originate from the percieved 'stealing' of women. Not only that, but the people who introduce you to her are the ones most likely to hate you when you break her heart.
This is why I prefer cold approaching. My idea cold approach is more casual than most 'sargers' would encourage. I like to meet girls who happen to be within my proximity while I go on about my regurlar business. I like to flirt with the girl standing behind me in the grocery line, sitting at the bus stop, at the table next to me at the burger joint, or sitting near me in class. I will do things to make sure that I am close to a girl if she's cute enough to grab my attention that way (by maybe standing in the longer line, for example), but for the most part I'm done with walking around with the sole intent of approaching girls. I did it for a while, and now my confidence is high enough that I don't need the practice. I'm playing the game for real now.
Women love to 'swept away' by a man who they meet seemingly be fate. Most girls can't imagine having better luck than meeting an attractive, confident, and charming man in the most unlikely place and have him notice her. That's not something that happens every day, not even to the most attractive girls. You see, the self-improvement is the reason that you are valuable, but the pickup skills are what enable you to show this value.
One more thing about developing game that really appeals to me: it places intrinsic value on yourself. You learn not to try and attract her with superficial qualities such as income and possessions by not answering her questions about these things directly. I might even bust on a girl for asking me a shallow question like what kind of car I drive and challenge her by saying that she's putting importance on the wrong things. This is especially great if you actually have a nice car. That's +1000 brownie points when she sees that you were refusing to brag even though you could have.
A DJ will have girls chasing after him, you are right, but he shouldn't be too reluctant to chase girls himself. There's no reason that you have to choose between one or the other.
BrotherAP
