The Law of Attraction

[Deep Dish]

Slaog said:
It's much easier to understand the science behind [The Secret] if you see everything as energy. We are all energy. Everything physical is pure energy but it jusy appears physical to out senses. Atoms are just balls of energy and they are more then 99.99% empty. In quantum physics its proven that the mind can effect matter.

I don't want to belabor the point, since I thoroughly explained it here and here with academic citations, but there was no science in The Secret. Quantum physics does not support mind over matter, actually. While it's true the act of measuring something inherently can influence the properties of said measured thing, the mind plays no part. As Columbia University quantum physicist David Albert explains, the early 20th century saw a crisis in physics with the development of quantum physics, but the latter half of the century witnessed a resolution to the crisis and science is progressing back to clockwork mechanism.

I know a fella who started gambling a few years ago. He's not the brightest and he is thousands of Euro in [debt] now. The interesting thing about he is that when he first started gambling he started to win and kept winning for months. He was winning 10's of thousands of Euro. He bought a new car and everything. Another gambler I know said he couldn't understand how the guy was winning so much because he hadn't a clue of horses but everything thing he picked out was winning. The other guy said that he's end up losing everything because he was betting on everything he could.

Eventually after many months the winning run came to an end. He started to lose and now 2 or 3 years later is probably around 100,000e in debt. His luck ran out. Or was it luck. My belief is that when he first started gambling he believed and expected to win. He wasn't smart enough to know about odds etc so he attracted that winning run to his life.

Well, hot and cold streaks are perfectly explained by random probability, regardless of someone's education and cognitive awareness of probability statistics. Every poker player knows some nights are full of hot hands and other nights are complete crap, regardless of one's beliefs. Ask "Jesus" Chris Ferguson, one of the top poker players in the world and who holds a PhD in mathematics, and he will laugh at any suggestion the winnings and losses at gambling -- of any sort -- are predicated upon belief except in the very limited context of persistence and risk aversion. Gambling in particular is designed so the house always wins, disparaging even the most confident and believing players, sooner or later, to lose everything. Over the past few decades horse racing has been evolving to be more probability-based than horse-based, thanks to improvements of training which marginalize the differences between horses, but nonetheless streaks are still explained by probability theory.

There is also the possibility of cheating.

 

[slaog]

Quantum physics does not support mind over matter, actually. While it's true the act of measuring something inherently can influence the properties of said measured thing, the mind plays no part.

Then what is it? Plenty of scientists say it's the mind.

As Columbia University quantum physicist David Albert explains, the early 20th century saw a crisis in physics with the development of quantum physics, but the latter half of the century witnessed a resolution to the crisis and science is progressing back to clockwork mechanism.Well, hot and cold streaks are perfectly explained by random probability, regardless of someone's education and cognitive awareness of probability statistics.

I understand gambling and chance etc. I also know that to win 10's of thousands after nearly 1000 bets is highly unlikely unless you are a good gambler.


I'm not saying science is wrong. I'm saying there are different levels to our reality.


Here are some videos explaining it. Deep dish if you want to skip to PT 15 you'll see alot of those are scientists who support it.
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT1
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT2
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT3
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT4
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT5
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT6
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT7
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT8
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT9
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT10
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT11
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT12
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT13
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT14
What the bleep do we know? Down the rabbit hole PT15

Casinos are full of guys with a positive mindset. The guys who own casinos are very glad they do.

Even if somebody has a positive mindset it doesn't mean that person will attract wealth. If they see themselves as being poor then thats what will happen. If fact alot of bad gamblers see themselves as poor and so they turn to gambling in hope rather then think long term. Just like being positive alone won't attract a woman.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

ALL-RIIIGHT! DISH is in, now we've got a party!


Universal Law of the Jinx
A jinx, in popular superstition and folklore, is:

• A sort of curse placed on a person that makes them prey to large numbers of minor misfortunes and other forms of bad luck;
• A person afflicted with a similar curse, who, while not directly subject to a series of misfortunes, seems to attract them to anyone in his general area.
• An object that brings bad luck.
• A common slang term used when two people say the same thing at the same time (said as a game amongst the young).


The superstition is sometimes used when talking about a future event with too much confidence. A statement like "We're sure to win the contest!" can be seen as a jinx by tempting fate. After such a statement, failure would be ironic. For the human mind, the irony makes it all the more likely. This therefore brings bad luck: it is a "jinx". The event itself is referred to as "jinxed".

 

[Deep Dish]

ALL-RIIIGHT! DISH is in, now we've got a party!

Rollo passes a virtual chilled shot of Van Gogh pomegranate. Hmm, delicious. Thanks!

Slaog:

I am happily willing to discuss this subject with you, but only if you first read my two threads:

• It's no secret: "The Secret" and the "Law of Attraction" are BULLSH*T
• The Final Word on "The Secret": Deep Dish's Exposé on the Naked Truth

The first is a scientific essay, which I did not write, refuting the science of The Secret. The second is an essay I did write which was my own review of the book, and it also covers What The Bleep. Don't worry about reading the thread responses, because that would take way too long.

 

[djbr]

In my opinion, you're blowing smoke, slaog.

:crackup:


Hmmm... well... for me, I think that a positive mindset helps. Not because it makes good things come to you, far from it. Instead, I think that it just makes you see the good of what is already around you and use it to your advantage.

A negative mindset, on the other hand, makes you ignore all the good stuff that happens, thus the whole "attracting bad things" vibe that comes with it.

It's not like we're attracting anything, it's about what we choose to focus on. Things are already there.

cheers!

 

[slaog]

"The problem is the people defending the conventional approach to consciousness - brain = mind = computer, behave as if they've got proof and we don't. They got ****** (fvck all proof)" - Stuart Hameroff M.D.


Thats a long thread Deep dish! I didn't read it all because it's too long.


Nobody can prove it exists or doesn't exist. It's ok if you don't believe in it but all I can say is that I recommend it (when done correctly) as I've seen it work for me.

 

[Deep Dish]

Positive thinking is well proven to be a good thing, generally speaking. People certainly prefer being around positive people and it's in the realm of interpersonal relationships where the law of attraction hold its most truth. Positive thinking can be over-attributed, though, and can be delusional. (In fact, delusional positive thinking has evolutionary roots as a means of survival.) Depressed people are arguably the most realistically grounded people, because they recognize their own limitations, failures, and the harshness of reality. My primary disagreement with the law of attraction is it's not a law but rather a general rule of thumb. Positive thinking, in certain contexts, can certainly help increase the chances of favorable outcomes, but by no regards guarantees success regardless of strength of belief and taking action. My gripe with The Secret was its brand of the "law" of attraction was predicated entirely upon bad science (which is proven).

I have been reading the book 48 Laws of Power and it's two hundred times better, more accurate, insightul, and empowering than The Secret or What The Bleep can ever attract into existence.

Cheers.

 

[Truman181]

I'm gonna add my 2 cents but I don't want it to seem like I'm bashing anyone.

Deep Dish is probably one of the smartest members that visits this website, there is no denying that. However, he is constantly trying to debunk others' beliefs. WHY? My theory is that because he is such a man of intelligence that any beliefs that defy logic (or seem to) if true would minimize his gift(s).

Let others believe what they believe man.

Also, I'll have to disagree with one point you did make. You said something along the lines of "depressed people have the more realistic vision of reality". That's not true at all. First, reality is subjective. There is no definitive version of reality only peoples' perception of reality. Depressed people (assuming no chemical imbalance) are depressed because they can't see the good things in their life. And it only stands to reason that there are ALWAYS good things in a person's life just as there are always negative things present. Whether a person has a negative slant or a positive one, there is always a biased perspective.

Having said that, I'll give my point of view on the Secret or the Law of Attraction.

Do I believe that it's a magical magnet that attracts whatever you want into your life? Maybe not.

However, there are always things that science just can't measure. The underlying principal behind FAITH is that a person believes in a higher power in spite of logic.

As for the power of thought creating reality look at Thomas Edison for example. He created somewhere around 10,000 non-working light bulbs before he made one that worked. What kept him going? You can't say that LOGIC was the defining ingredient that led to the invention.

Edison had VISION. He visualized himself succeeding and he made those thoughts a reality. I fully believe that what separates successful people in this world from the unsuccessful is that the successful ones can SEE themselves creating their own vision of the reality they want while the unsuccessful could not (even if they were talented or gifted).

Here's a personal example: for years I struggled with weight loss. No amount of will power, or knowledge about what logically would cause weight loss made much of a difference to me. However, once I started SEEING myself being thinner, once I imagined myself wearing a cool 'thin wardrobe' it was only then that I made it real in my life.

Anyway in closing once again I am not slamming Deep Dish. He is entitled to his opinions just like everyone else. However, I think some of us might agree that it would be nice to have an open discussion once in awhile without the anti-logic police debunking all discussion.

 

[Deep Dish]

I'll have to disagree with one point you did make. You said something along the lines of "depressed people have the more realistic vision of reality".

Here is what I was alluding:

Although we like to think of ourselves as rational beings, our brains covertly strive to create for us a view of the world and of ourselves that is self serving but not necessarily consistent with reality. Beliefs and opinions are formed quickly and become part of how we define ourselves, so the brain selectively perceives and recalls evidence that supports cherished beliefs while disregarding or forgetting evidence that contradicts our beliefs. [Cordelia Fine] calls this “motivated skepticism.” We are naturally skeptical of anything that challenges our beliefs, but accepting of anything that bolsters our beliefs, and hence our egos...

Our brains also trick us into believing we have more control over situations than we really do. We blow on dice and perform other rituals to influence events. We also feel safer driving than flying because we think we are in control behind the steering wheel. This is especially true when things turn out in our favor. For instance, we take the credit for picking a winning lottery ticket, but blame a losing ticket on bad luck. It would seem that going through life deluded by our own brains would not be a good thing, but that is not necessarily the case. Some people have markedly more balanced self-perceptions than normal people — they know clearly what their limitations are and how little control they actually have over their lives. They are also clinically depressed, and seeing reality for what it is, they become overwhelmed and lose the desire to go on living. So it seems that our brains delude us to keep us happy, healthy and ready to face life’s challenges. In fact, people who are generally optimistic tend to live longer. (source)

And that is a whole thread in itself.

As for the power of thought creating reality look at Thomas Edison for example. He created somewhere around 10,000 non-working light bulbs before he made one that worked. What kept him going? You can't say that LOGIC was the defining ingredient that led to the invention.

Edison didn't invent the lightbulb. It was invented by Humphry Davy about 47 years before Edison was born and Edison purchased lightbulb patents from other people. Edison was a businessman, not an inventor. He had the vision, motivation, to turn the lightbulb into commercial viability by improving upon its choice of filament. Nikola Tesla, a genius inventor whose life was tarnished by Edison, thought Edison was a complete idiot, for Tesla opined Edison could have arrived at the proper filament much quicker if he had put some thought into the selection process rather than just blindly trying thousands of filaments. (Tesla was defined by 'vision,' as well, but in the opposite regard. He had many ideas but notoriously didn't write down many of his ideas. In his autobiographical book, he claimed to have 'worked' for twenty years without a single day off -- in his head -- but in terms of actual productive work, he almost never did anything. He invented the radio, the television, among other things, but other people stole his ideas and stripped him of his patents. (Marconi, for instance, used twelve of Tesla's patents in the radio and then took credit for everything. It was not until the 1950's when the US Supreme Court awarded the patents back to Tesla.))

And what about Christopher Columbus, as someone once argued. Didn't he have the 'vision' to go against everyone's belief the world was flat? Well, it turns out, before then everyone already knew the world was round. He didn't even know how to sail a boat, apparently. He possessed only two traits: charisma and brutality. In both Edison and Columbus we see the tragic pattern, repeated elsewhere throughout history, the pinnacles of ingenuity can come not through sharp intelligence but cruel shrewdness.

'Vision' is motivation and I wholeheartedly agree motivation of thought infused with persistence of action are critical elements of success. It's common sense. If vision is motivation, motivation is willpower, thus visualizing being thin provided the willpower to achieve weight loss despite previous assessments of "no amount of willpower" could suffice.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it." – Thomas Jefferson

 

[Truman181]

Here is what I was alluding:And that is a whole thread in itself.Edison didn't invent the lightbulb. It was invented by Humphry Davy about 47 years before Edison was born and Edison purchased lightbulb patents from other people. Edison was a businessman, not an inventor. He had the vision, motivation, to turn the lightbulb into commercial viability by improving upon its choice of filament. Nikola Tesla, a genius inventor whose life was tarnished by Edison, thought Edison was a complete idiot, for Tesla opined Edison could have arrived at the proper filament much quicker if he had put some thought into the selection process rather than just blindly trying thousands of filaments. (Tesla was defined by 'vision,' as well, but in the opposite regard. He had many ideas but notoriously didn't write down many of his ideas. In his autobiographical book, he claimed to have 'worked' for twenty years without a single day off -- in his head -- but in terms of actual productive work, he almost never did anything. He invented the radio, the television, among other things, but other people stole his ideas and stripped him of his patents. (Marconi, for instance, used twelve of Tesla's patents in the radio and then took credit for everything. It was not until the 1950's when the US Supreme Court awarded the patents back to Tesla.))

You've certainly done your homework. As to your Columbus example perhaps his vision was to become a shrewd businessman and the acclaim he's received through history was a byproduct.

'Vision' is motivation and I wholeheartedly agree motivation of thought infused with persistence of action are critical elements of success. It's common sense. If vision is motivation, motivation is willpower, thus visualizing being thin provided the willpower to achieve weight loss despite previous assessments of "no amount of willpower" could suffice.

We are in agreement for the most part. A big problem with people who buy into the law of attraction is they believe they can sit back and wait for their thoughts to magically manifest. I believe the correct formula is thought + action = manifestation.

 

[STR8UP]

Positive thinking is well proven to be a good thing, generally speaking. People certainly prefer being around positive people and it's in the realm of interpersonal relationships where the law of attraction hold its most truth. Positive thinking can be over-attributed, though, and can be delusional.

This pretty much sums it up.

I have been reading the book 48 Laws of Power and it's two hundred times better, more accurate, insightul, and empowering than The Secret or What The Bleep can ever attract into existence.

Cheers.

My friend tried to make me watch The Secret. Garbage. It actually EMPLOYS several of the 48 Laws of Power to separate you from your hard earned money, most notably this one:

Law 27

Play on People’s Need to Believe to Create a Cultlike Following

People have an overwhelming desire to believe in something. Become the focal point of such desire by offering them a cause, a new faith to follow. Keep your words vague but full of promise; emphasize enthusiasm over rationality and clear thinking. Give your new disciples rituals to perform, ask them to make sacrifices on your behalf. In the absence of organized religion and grand causes, your new belief system will bring you untold power.​

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

^^^^^^
Ya rat bastahd, I was getting to this,...

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I believe in the Law of Attraction whole-heartedly! I think you guys just haven't been focusing your positive energies well enough, but that's OK, most people need a point of focus, a conduit if you will, to channel that raw power of attraction. Luck for you, I happen to have several Brazilian Power Crystals in my garage,..ehr,..warehouse that are guaranteed to help you do just that! Seriously, I don't offer these things to just anyone. Only my friends who I think can handle the success they bring. Normally I charge $400 for them, but since you're all part of the cul,..uh,..network of friends, I'm offering them for half price! That's right, only $200 for genuine Brazilian Power Crystals guaranteed to focus that positivity out into the cosmos and help it deliver back exactly what you desire. Don't delay! I only have a limited stock on hand. Act Now!

 

[Truman181]

Law 27

Play on People’s Need to Believe to Create a Cultlike Following

People have an overwhelming desire to believe in something. Become the focal point of such desire by offering them a cause, a new faith to follow. Keep your words vague but full of promise; emphasize enthusiasm over rationality and clear thinking. Give your new disciples rituals to perform, ask them to make sacrifices on your behalf. In the absence of organized religion and grand causes, your new belief system will bring you untold power.​

Goodness, is that what Rollo has done with this website???

 

[ChrizZ]

If you guys want scientific proof then I'd recommend reading the book "a happy pocket full of money"


It's the best book I've ever read.

 

[wolf116]

Does the LOA work in casinos? I tried and lost all my money.

In "the secret" I saw some guy who could increase his odds of getting a prime parking spot to 95%.

If you could increase your odds of getting black in roulette to even 60% you could bust the whole casino.

It seems unfair. The use of the LOA should be banned in sports and buisness.

Dose this mean that I can actually help my soccer team win from my couch if I think/imagine/believe hard enough? What if someone from the other team is doing the same thing?

 

[ChrizZ]

Does the LOA work in casinos? I tried and lost all my money.

In "the secret" I saw some guy who could increase his odds of getting a prime parking spot to 95%.

If you could increase your odds of getting black in roulette to even 60% you could bust the whole casino.

It seems unfair. The use of the LOA should be banned in sports and buisness.

Dose this mean that I can actually help my soccer team win from my couch if I think/imagine/believe hard enough? What if someone from the other team is doing the same thing?

Judging by your uneducated, moronic posts you have only watched the movie "the secret".

Take some time off from trolling and wacking off and read the book "A happy pocket full of money" and then post here again.

If you then still don't get what LOA is about then I'll officially move you some ranks up on my sosuave most idiotic poster list.

 

[wolf116]

Judging by your uneducated, moronic posts you have only watched the movie "the secret".

Take some time off from trolling and wacking off and read the book "A happy pocket full of money" and then post here again.

If you then still don't get what LOA is about then I'll officially move you some ranks up on my sosuave most idiotic poster list.

You ask a question, then when someone gives their opinion they are moronic? nice.

I'm not interested in a money making book. I've read books like 'think rich grow rich' and 'rich dad poor dad' and they bore me. When I read books on spirituality, happiness, "new age" and "quantum physics" (not the real quantum physics) I'm just embarrassed for the author.

All the pseudo-science in the world isn't going to convince me or any scientist of the LOA.

 

[ElChoclo]

Apart from anything else, this theory is destroyed by a basic ad hominem argument. If this magical ability to resonate with the universe was necessary for biological success on this planet, evolution would have seen to it that those adaptable ancestors who possessed the right genes for this would have prevailed and it would be a widespread trait amongst modern humans.

The fact that this ability is not routinely used and available to all humans suggests that it doesn't exist, for if it did, the genetic advantage conferred on those who had it, would have led to the others dying out.

We have a common ancestor with chimps. So do chimps use the law of attraction, or is it a recently acquired ability like speech. Note well, we can all talk.

Also, what reason would there be for the universe to be set up in such a way that it physically responds to the needs of humans. You may as well suggest that if you leave your shoes out at night, the universe will polish them for you during the night. The universe has better things to do, like keep on expanding, the occasional big bang. It doesn't leave a post it note on a supernova saying "Remember to give Billy some hard currency in spades tomorrow."