The importance of figuring out what's really wrong emotionally

[bukowski_merit]

Yesturday a situation happened between me and a girl i have regular $ex with...

On tuesday - she told me "some people are taking me out after work for my birthday tomorrow. you should come too."

to which i responded "ok cool"...

---
she normally comes over my house on wednesdays for reasons that are unimportant to this post.

---
yesturday morning she text me: "just a reminder that im going out after work tonight and won't be coming over"

my response: "so you're not coming back with me then?"

her response: "back with you? i didn't know you were going"

my response: "why wouldn't i be going?"

her response: "because you said you'd get back to me and you never did! don't worry about it, you go do other stuff."

my response: "that's not what i said. I said "ok cool" why would i not come out with you on your birthday?"

her response: "well you haven't even told me happy birthday on my birthday!"
---
then i started getting into a logical arguement with her because i hate when people put words in my mouth i didn't say... but i had to stop myself ... this is very important! (i feel i went even too far with the little bit of logical discussion we had)

i took a step back from the discussion and cleared whatever emotions were running through me and just took some deep breaths and calmed myself.

women do not respond to logical "discussions" nearly as well as they respond to emotional ones... so i had to look at some of the emotions she was showing me... and try to connect with them... MOST guys would have continued the discussion on a logical level and ended up probably getting into an arguement and feeling that "all women are crazy"...
---
so... first.. what was she showing me...
1) she was showing me she was hurt that i hadn't told her happy birthday... (this i determined was the main point that got her so b!tchy)
2) she seemed hurt that i didn't tell her i'd definitely be going (although to me "ok cool" is me saying im going - but there's no need to get into that discussion with her)...
3) she seemed to be pushing me away emotionally...
---
so i concluded that she was feeling as if i didn't care about her and she was hurt by this and acting out her feelings... I HAD TO SHOW HER I CARED in order to negate her emotions that i might not.
---
my next text: "listen. i have no intent to tell you through text "happy birthday". maybe you've gotten tons of texts today saying that, but i will only say it when im standing directly in front of you. I want to look into your eyes when i say it to you. I want to see your eyes light up and see your happiness through your smile; i want to feel your happiness when i wrap you in my arms. would you rather i tell you happy birthday throught text with a =) at the end? or would you prefer a happy birthday from me with a real smile followed by your lips against mine?"

her response: your lips against mine! =)

my response: so in order for us to share that experience what has to happen? =)

her: we have to see each other =)

---
that's that (the rest of the conversation was more of the same)...

long story short: i ended up going to where they were... we stayed there for a hour and a half tops! all her work friends (mostly old ladies) went home... and she came back to my house.... and i gave her one heLL of a birthday present (which probably qualifies as "presents")...
---
I don't think i handled this as best as it can be handled because i did venture into the logical realm before i reconized what was going on....

but i just want to demonstrate something to guys who i see getting pulled into arguements on here... you should not discuss things too long in "logical" mode, and should do your best to figure out what emotional fear she's most likely showing at the time of the arguement... and address is - IN AN EMOTIONAL WAY...

this discussion we had could have got real ugly had i let me original emotion of (this b!tch is crazy) take over... our relationship could have ended... and neither of us would have had the night we had...

 

[doctorj]

nice job, thanks for the tip

 

[returningchamp]

Nice...
I think it's important to note that there's about 5 different ways to handle this though. This is not the only way, but works just as well as any of the others i can think of (I think the people in the community call this the effeminate way of handling a girl. "Effeminate" meaning - like a girl. Which means you understand how to talk to them in a way that gets through to them)

 

[Igetit!]

On tuesday - she told me "some people are taking me out after work for my birthday tomorrow. you should come too."

to which i responded "ok cool"...

---
she normally comes over my house on wednesdays for reasons that are unimportant to this post.

---
yesturday morning she text me: "just a reminder that im going out after work tonight and won't be coming over"

my response: "so you're not coming back with me then?"

her response: "back with you? i didn't know you were going"

my response: "why wouldn't i be going?"

her response: "because you said you'd get back to me and you never did! don't worry about it, you go do other stuff."

my response: "that's not what i said. I said "ok cool" why would i not come out with you on your birthday?"

her response: "well you haven't even told me happy birthday on my birthday!"

This is BEAUTIFUL dude. You may not fully understand,(but who does),but at least you DO get it.

So,so many guys don't understand this. Their too blinded by their sexual desires to see and understand what really goes on with women.
Instead of trying to understand why women say certain things and behave in certain ways,they just write her off and dismissed her as being "crazy",or a "b!tch".

They also brand her as being evil and intentionally,on purpose,trying to be difficult and cause problems.

Not saying that some women don't do these things,but if you're in a relationship with a girl who REALLY LIKES you,is really attacted to you and wants to be with you,she's not going to ON PURPOSE try to make things hard or difficult in the relationship. If she really cares for you,then WHY would she do that?

then i started getting into a logical arguement with her because i hate when people put words in my mouth i didn't say... but i had to stop myself ... this is very important! (i feel i went even too far with the little bit of logical discussion we had)

Yeah dude,you get it.
You had the "intuition" to realize what was going on and what was about to happen,and YOU STOPPED IT from coming to pass. This shows GREAT MATURITY in your understand of women. Most guys would be too busy trying to "win the arguement". They'd rather "be right" than for both themselves and their woman to be happy.

women do not respond to logical "discussions" nearly as well as they respond to emotional ones... so i had to look at some of the emotions she was showing me... and try to connect with them... MOST guys would have continued the discussion on a logical level and ended up probably getting into an arguement and feeling that "all women are crazy"...

EXACTLY!!!
---

so... first.. what was she showing me...
1) she was showing me she was hurt that i hadn't told her happy birthday... (this i determined was the main point that got her so b!tchy)
2) she seemed hurt that i didn't tell her i'd definitely be going (although to me "ok cool" is me saying im going - but there's no need to get into that discussion with her)...
3) she seemed to be pushing me away emotionally...
---
so i concluded that she was feeling as if i didn't care about her and she was hurt by this and acting out her feelings... I HAD TO SHOW HER I CARED in order to negate her emotions that i might not.

Yeah,this seems about right. To me,it seems that your "ok cool" reply wasn't exactly what she was looking for from you. It was just too flat,void of any emotion.

Her birthday is important to her,so I guess she wanted you to show a little excitement about something that's dear to her.
---

my next text: "listen. i have no intent to tell you through text "happy birthday". maybe you've gotten tons of texts today saying that, but i will only say it when im standing directly in front of you. I want to look into your eyes when i say it to you. I want to see your eyes light up and see your happiness through your smile; i want to feel your happiness when i wrap you in my arms. would you rather i tell you happy birthday throught text with a =) at the end? or would you prefer a happy birthday from me with a real smile followed by your lips against mine?"

her response: your lips against mine! =)

my response: so in order for us to share that experience what has to happen? =)

her: we have to see each other =)

---
that's that (the rest of the conversation was more of the same)...

Excellent response. Maybe just a tad bit heavy on the sweetness,but hey,I don't argue with success.

---

but i just want to demonstrate something to guys who i see getting pulled into arguements on here... you should not discuss things too long in "logical" mode, and should do your best to figure out what emotional fear she's most likely showing at the time of the arguement... and address is - IN AN EMOTIONAL WAY...

this discussion we had could have got real ugly had i let me original emotion of (this b!tch is crazy) take over... our relationship could have ended... and neither of us would have had the night we had...

True,so true.

I've been saying this for THE ENTIRE TIME I've been a member here.

Women aren't evil.

They aren't crazy.

We just have a misunderstanding of WHY THEY BEHAVE the way they do sometimes.

Every guy here should read this thread and UNDERSTAND IT.


+1 rep.

 

[bukowski_merit]

Nice...
I think it's important to note that there's about 5 different ways to handle this though. This is not the only way, but works just as well as any of the others i can think of (I think the people in the community call this the effeminate way of handling a girl. "Effeminate" meaning - like a girl. Which means you understand how to talk to them in a way that gets through to them)

Yes, I'm pretty sure i have heard the effiminate thing as well. Im a believer in situations needing to sometimes be handled in a very masculine way, and sometimes in a very feminine way... That will sound silly to some, it did the first time i heard it. But figuring that out - has been a huge step in my development in the relationship area (it's really irrelevant in pickup).

Just to let people know:
- If she was say flaking on me when we were supposed to meet. Trying to invite friends along on a date. Talking about another man, etc - I would not use the above to get through to her... I would not use an "effiminate" way with her... I'd instead respond in a much more masculine way... or maybe a much more C+F way... depends on the situation... But THIS RESPONSE is what guys on this forum need to do in a lot of the situation that "they don't know what's going on" in... when the woman is suddenly b!tchy, or when she's making strange accusations, or just outright acting out of control...

everything you said

Thanks =) I agree that by understanding this stuff - a guy can make his life SO SO much easier when it comes to dealing with women (i don't know how much this stype of stuff helps in pick-up; but in relationships - it helps tremendously!)...

I do agree my response to her was a bit sweet... borderlining extreme romance territory... but time after time - this stuff works for me... and really softens the woman up quickly! (they forget what we're argueing about instantly)

I think there's way too little actual examples of what it means to address her emotional side out there. I've read whole chapters in book that state "you need to address her emotional side when she argues with you" etc... and the chapter will be completely void of any example of how to do this... so i imagine most guys will just be scratching their head after reading...

I just read the link in your signature - and you too give a very solid example of how to handle this type of stuff too! so anyone reading this and needing further info - should go to the link in your sig as a cross reference!

 

[changeherways]

Great stuff... Not only because you came up with some great words to say to take her out of her bad frame. But also in calming yourself down and not gettin pulled into an argument. That's something that doesnt come natural to human beings...

I also agree with Igetit! Too many guys let their ego get in the way, and their desire to "win" an argument actually loses them A LOT of attraction!

 

[Hennessy]

Being with her on her birthday is the same as saying happy birthday. She knew damn well you said "ok, cool". It has the same effect as "can't wait". That wasn't the problem. To the original poster, I'm pretty sure her emotions came to mind while you were arguing with her. I would say because it was her birthday and you were spoiling her. Whats up with that paragraph long text, explaining yourself? I think a lot of guys would do better if they put their words on a diet. Maybe, one a day. To me, it looked like you gave in but I don't know how old you two are. ( Y'all maybe still learning together )

* Don Juan Spoiler *
I love the subject and agree with you 100% about understanding her emotions. Thats a girls weakness and I like to take advantage of it

 

[bukowski_merit]

Whats up with that paragraph long text, explaining yourself?

It's explaining myself perhaps to anyone looking at it who doesn't understand addressing her emotionally. The sappy emotional talk was to trigger in her feelings of closeness and wanting to be close. Which is what the words did.

Any kind of negative continuation of the discussion (being too alpha, etc) - would have resulted in more negative emotion.

Saying the same thing in a non-emotional way would not have lowered the heat.

For example simply saying: "im coming to say it to your face, not through text" - MAY have worked but would not have made her so soft the rest of the day and night.

I think a lot of guys would do better if they put their words on a diet. Maybe, one a day.

A man of many words is my identity with women. Perhaps not saying much works for YOU. But i know how to run my personal game... And A LOT of these guys on here complaining about having nagging girlfriends are guys who have allowed their frame as a leader get ROBBED from them by their GFs! Normally do to them being either a) too closed (emotionally - womanly) b) too argumentative (ego driven - mainly)... Giving her emotionally responses that directly address her emotional fears - solve both of these problems...

have you ever heard the "yin and yang" theory (as applied to dealing with women)???? I believe it was started by the realmodernman guys.

Basically it states when dealing with women you MUST balance your response to her sh!t test and outburst with masculine/manly response (yin) by also giving her feminine/female like responses (yang)... and when you give her the masculine response it should have a little sprinkle of feminine in it... and when you give her a feminine response - you must also sprinkle in a little masculinity. <<<--- this has been tested by me and many others and it works!

To me, it looked like you gave in but I don't know how old you two are. ( Y'all maybe still learning together )

Im Currently balancing 4 MLTRs (multiple long term relationships) all of which are over 6 months in length. This is the way i address them when the situation calls for it... and IT WORKS!

I am ALWAYS LEARNING... and anyone unwilling to still learn no matter how good they are - is a fool.

 

[Vlad the Impaler]

Yesturday a situation happened between me and a girl i have regular $ex with...

On tuesday - she told me "some people are taking me out after work for my birthday tomorrow. you should come too."

to which i responded "ok cool"...

---
she normally comes over my house on wednesdays for reasons that are unimportant to this post.

---
yesturday morning she text me: "just a reminder that im going out after work tonight and won't be coming over"

my response: "so you're not coming back with me then?"

her response: "back with you? i didn't know you were going"

my response: "why wouldn't i be going?"

her response: "because you said you'd get back to me and you never did! don't worry about it, you go do other stuff."

my response: "that's not what i said. I said "ok cool" why would i not come out with you on your birthday?"

her response: "well you haven't even told me happy birthday on my birthday!"
---
then i started getting into a logical arguement with her because i hate when people put words in my mouth i didn't say... but i had to stop myself ... this is very important! (i feel i went even too far with the little bit of logical discussion we had)

i took a step back from the discussion and cleared whatever emotions were running through me and just took some deep breaths and calmed myself.

women do not respond to logical "discussions" nearly as well as they respond to emotional ones... so i had to look at some of the emotions she was showing me... and try to connect with them... MOST guys would have continued the discussion on a logical level and ended up probably getting into an arguement and feeling that "all women are crazy"...
---
so... first.. what was she showing me...
1) she was showing me she was hurt that i hadn't told her happy birthday... (this i determined was the main point that got her so b!tchy)
2) she seemed hurt that i didn't tell her i'd definitely be going (although to me "ok cool" is me saying im going - but there's no need to get into that discussion with her)...
3) she seemed to be pushing me away emotionally...
---
so i concluded that she was feeling as if i didn't care about her and she was hurt by this and acting out her feelings... I HAD TO SHOW HER I CARED in order to negate her emotions that i might not.
---
my next text: "listen. i have no intent to tell you through text "happy birthday". maybe you've gotten tons of texts today saying that, but i will only say it when im standing directly in front of you. I want to look into your eyes when i say it to you. I want to see your eyes light up and see your happiness through your smile; i want to feel your happiness when i wrap you in my arms. would you rather i tell you happy birthday throught text with a =) at the end? or would you prefer a happy birthday from me with a real smile followed by your lips against mine?"

her response: your lips against mine! =)

my response: so in order for us to share that experience what has to happen? =)

her: we have to see each other =)

---
that's that (the rest of the conversation was more of the same)...

long story short: i ended up going to where they were... we stayed there for a hour and a half tops! all her work friends (mostly old ladies) went home... and she came back to my house.... and i gave her one heLL of a birthday present (which probably qualifies as "presents")...
---
I don't think i handled this as best as it can be handled because i did venture into the logical realm before i reconized what was going on....

but i just want to demonstrate something to guys who i see getting pulled into arguements on here... you should not discuss things too long in "logical" mode, and should do your best to figure out what emotional fear she's most likely showing at the time of the arguement... and address is - IN AN EMOTIONAL WAY...

this discussion we had could have got real ugly had i let me original emotion of (this b!tch is crazy) take over... our relationship could have ended... and neither of us would have had the night we had...

This is a good thread. I was like this for the first 2 months with the girl, and she kept coming back twice a week. But then she told me she is banging other guys and it all changed and I lost it. But I'm not a plate spinning type of guy and that's why I lost it. If a girl I am seeing is sucking other guys off, I lose interest 90 percent. It disgusts me and I'd rather be alone. Especially because she was trying to tell me she wants a hubby and all that. What kind of man will marry a woman who sleeps around? Women are so clueless and she kept telling me she wants a real MAN. Well, I want a real WOMAN and you aren't it.



I asked her "what have you done for me besides spread your cheeks and bang other guys? "..
Her only response to that was "f you"

All she could say is "f you". I dont know if anybody has seen through her like I did.

The icing on the cake is on our 2nd date she asked me if I am seeing anyone else and I said no, I asked her and she said no.



Maybe it's because I come from a family where being loyal is important. Maybe I'm a fool to the game but I'm not kissing those nasty lips anymore or catching god knows what STD.

How would you feel if your girl told you she is spinning plates banging and sucking other guys? I bet you wouldn't be so level headed and cool anymore.

 

[Furyguy]

****in sick post dude, I really like the way you illustrated that, nice job.

 

[Scars]

Amazing insight. +1 rep

 

[Accension]

Listen to bukowski_merit that man understands women and delivered a thread of critical knowledge for everyone to benefit.

I'll be repping him akwardingly, I imply you do the same.

Edit: If I was mod I'd archive this, I see it as that important.

 

[PSYCHO]

The natural and logical thing to say after she said, "You didn't say 'Happy Birthday'", was to say, "I was going to tell you that in person"! The meaning of what she was saying was a revelation to you, because you did not catch it immediately!

You were not responding to her emotionally, you were responding logically - think about it - "I was going to tell you in person" was the logical response! Why did she see it differently? Why did she want you to call her before you saw her? Now, we are getting to the emotional response!

So why would she expect you to contact her to say "Happy Birthday" before you saw her? Is that because she was expecting it - and she thought that the first thing that you would do when you woke up was to call her! To show her that you were thinking about her - that you cared for her more than just sex.

On the other hand, why did she take "Ok Cool" as a rejection? Maybe she didn't want you to come, but was being nice? Have you met her co-workers before?

I'll be repping him akwardingly, .

You meant, "accordingly"

 

[bukowski_merit]

Maybe it's because I come from a family where being loyal is important. Maybe I'm a fool to the game but I'm not kissing those nasty lips anymore or catching god knows what STD.

How would you feel if your girl told you she is spinning plates banging and sucking other guys? I bet you wouldn't be so level headed and cool anymore.

DUDE! lol... why are you obssesed over this girl? she owns you and you act like you're better than her just because you figured her out; dude, you care WAY more than her about your guys relationship; you obsess over it even though you claim to be done with her... i've addressed you more than once in your own thread. almost any girl you mess with will have more sexual experience than most guys will... that's just the way it is... if you care that much - try and find a virgin. but be warned - a virgin will eventually want to experience other guys and this doesn't mean she will cheat... but she will grow very bitter towrds you...

You were not responding to her emotionally, you were responding logically - think about it - "I was going to tell you in person" was the logical response! Why did she see it differently? Why did she want you to call her before you saw her? Now, we are getting to the emotional response!

You misunderstand what i say when i say to address her emotions. Or to address her emotional needs in an emotional (touching) way. It doesn't mean my response is going to be an outpour or emotion void of any logic. It means what i say will address her emotional fears (99% of the time they will not be what she acts b!tchy about or starts an arguement over). You normally have to dig to find her emotional fear; below the surface of the argument.

Saying, "I was going to tell you in person" (complete logic) and leaving it at that would not have got the same "woman/emotion softening" result as following it with a lot of language that connected to her emotions. Each line in itself was logical in the way that it was written. But each line was a soft blow to her emotions... She went from a high tempermant (borderlining anger) to being a soft kitten in one text message.

So why would she expect you to contact her to say "Happy Birthday" before you saw her? Is that because she was expecting it - and she thought that the first thing that you would do when you woke up was to call her! To show her that you were thinking about her - that you cared for her more than just sex.

These questions sound like what MOST guys would ask her if they got into a similar argument... This would only make her more mad and more frustrated (because i doubt she knows the answers lol)... But really, they aren't that important to know the answer to. If we spend all day trying to figure out these answers in a logical way - we're wasting time.

The part i bolded it most likely truth. She probably does feel inside that i don't care about her as much as she cares about me; our relationship ensures this. And often the context of every outburst from her (and others in my life) has A LOT to do with the fact that she cares about our relationship A LOT more than me... I actually don't get sh!t tested/b!tched at much, but when i do - it normally has something to do with this.

On the other hand, why did she take "Ok Cool" as a rejection? Maybe she didn't want you to come, but was being nice? Have you met her co-workers before?

Again... the question as to why she took "Ok cool" as a rejection IS NOT IMPORTANT; nor was it why she was acting the way she was.

She works at a cake shop that her father owns, and I have meant them before; been to a few happy hours with them... Then include 5-6 much older women, 2 much older guys, and 1 guy her age who's obese and i've never seen lift his head from his iphone.... not the most exciting bunch in the world... but i don't think they judge me or would give her any reason to not bring me around them...

 

[Accension]

The natural and logical thing to say after she said, "You didn't say 'Happy Birthday'", was to say, "I was going to tell you that in person"! The meaning of what she was saying was a revelation to you, because you did not catch it immediately!

You were not responding to her emotionally, you were responding logically - think about it - "I was going to tell you in person" was the logical response! Why did she see it differently? Why did she want you to call her before you saw her? Now, we are getting to the emotional response!

So why would she expect you to contact her to say "Happy Birthday" before you saw her? Is that because she was expecting it - and she thought that the first thing that you would do when you woke up was to call her! To show her that you were thinking about her - that you cared for her more than just sex.

On the other hand, why did she take "Ok Cool" as a rejection? Maybe she didn't want you to come, but was being nice? Have you met her co-workers before?

You meant, "accordingly"

Forgive me, I only post here after a night out drinking.
I'm drunk now and if this post isn't right, know that I tried hard. Half of this was probably back spaced and re-written.