The idea that rejection is nothing personal

[CornbreadFed]

Sad.

So I was correct?

 

[SW15]

That's your assignment. Now get!

I did an experiment similar to the one you just assigned me when I was visiting Texas back in November. I sat at the hotel bar for dinner. No one said a word to me.

It looks like @GoodMan32 did @BeExcellent 's homework assignment. He was completely ignored. He got to observe others being social but his presence in the bar was irrelevant that night. Due to the fact no one talked to him, it's almost as if he wasn't even there.

He didn't do the assignment in his home city but that doesn't seem to matter in this case.

For example, the female employee in my office building's cafe I've posted about on here before (who I suspected might be into me). I'm not exactly into her (even though I find her physically attractive, she's a lot younger than I prefer). Yet I was still somewhat crushed when I found out (without coming out and asking) she's not into me. The fact I misread a woman's interest level yet again was why I was crushed.

A good rule of thumb for nearly all men (except the 85th-90th percentile +) is that women who are at work when they meet you are not sexually attracted to you.

There are so many neurotypicals that think a woman who has a service industry job/job working with the general public is attracted to them. That's rarely the case.

I made a thread about hitting on women at their places of work.

Successfully Approaching Women at Work (General Public Workers)

The idea of approaching women while they are at their jobs containing interaction with the general public is a topic that is somewhat contentious among men. When I think of women who work with the general public, these are the categories that come to mind of women to approach. Strippers...

www.sosuave.net

 

[BeExcellent]

It looks like @GoodMan32 did @BeExcellent 's homework assignment. He was completely ignored. He got to observe others being social but his presence in the bar was irrelevant that night. Due to the fact no one talked to him, it's almost as if he wasn't even there.

He didn't do the assignment in his home city but that doesn't seem to matter in this case.



A good rule of thumb for nearly all men (except the 85th-90th percentile +) is that women who are at work when they meet you are not sexually attracted to you.

There are so many neurotypicals that think a woman who has a service industry job/job working with the general public is attracted to them. That's rarely the case.

I made a thread about hitting on women at their places of work.

Successfully Approaching Women at Work (General Public Workers)

The idea of approaching women while they are at their jobs containing interaction with the general public is a topic that is somewhat contentious among men. When I think of women who work with the general public, these are the categories that come to mind of women to approach. Strippers...

www.sosuave.net

Hotel bars are total duds for meeting people. They are bland and almost never popular social spots. The places I suggested ARE social hot spots where people show up there to mingle. It makes all the difference in the world because the vibe/energy of a place can be entirely different.

You have to be somewhere busy enough to have some forced proximity near other people (like at the next seat at the bar on either side). That forced proximity creates opportunity for interaction/conversation to happen as a result of said proximity.

This is why I suggested the 2 very specific venues. They are NOT comparable to a bland hotel bar at a Marriott somewhere.....not at all.

I also did NOT suggest, for example, a couple of the packed very popular high end luxury hotels that have a massive social scene filled with beautiful people in PHX metro. They also create forced proximity but I wouldn't send anyone but very seasoned confident people into that environment. At hotels many people are not local and tend to stick with their already established group. Those environments are inherently more insular, and not for getting one's feet wet.

So until he does my actual assigment? He's the excuse maker and the problem.

 

[SW15]

Hotel bars are total duds for meeting people. They are bland and almost never popular social spots. The places I suggested ARE social hot spots where people show up there to mingle. It makes all the difference in the world because the vibe/energy of a place can be entirely different.

You have to be somewhere busy enough to have some forced proximity near other people (like at the next seat at the bar on either side). That forced proximity creates opportunity for interaction/conversation to happen as a result of said proximity.

This is why I suggested the 2 very specific venues. They are NOT comparable to a bland hotel bar at a Marriott somewhere.....not at all.

That's a good point on hotel bars and I hadn't fully considered that in my response above. I don't tend to spend time in hotel bars.

I agree on the point of forced proximity.

Let's see what happens if he were to try those 2 specific venues early in the week weeknights.

I also did NOT suggest, for example, a couple of the packed very popular high end luxury hotels that have a massive social scene filled with beautiful people in PHX metro. They also create forced proximity but I wouldn't send anyone but very seasoned confident people into that environment. At hotels many people are not local and tend to stick with their already established group. Those environments are inherently more insular, and not for getting one's feet wet.

That is a valid point.

He would get crushed at a place like Bottled Blonde or El Hefe in Old Town Scottsdale on the weekend.

Many of the bars I went to in Old Town Scottsdale in the 2000s are now closed. I have been to bars in Old Town since moving away on a few trips back to the area so I still have some familiarity with the scene.

 

[BaronOfHair]

So until he does my actual assigment?

Holding our breath on this matter makes less sense than trying to get a series like House greenlit in today's social climate: Dude's essentially been re-posting variations of the same thread https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...social-awkwardness.282871/page-3#post-3130650 for awhile now

 

[BeExcellent]

That's a good point on hotel bars and I hadn't fully considered that in my response above. I don't tend to spend time in hotel bars.

I agree on the point of forced proximity.

Let's see what happens if he were to try those 2 specific venues early in the week weeknights.



That is a valid point.

He would get crushed at a place like Bottled Blonde or El Hefe in Old Town Scottsdale on the weekend.

Many of the bars I went to in Old Town Scottsdale in the 2000s are now closed. I have been to bars in Old Town since moving away on a few trips back to the area so I still have some familiarity with the scene.

Having spent many nights at both Bottled Blonde and El Hefe (both are full bore nightclubs, not restaurants, not bars) I agree those are not the correct speed either. Those are not comparable at all.

Notice I also did not suggest the W Hotel.

The places I suggested both have forced proximity, people receptive to interactions, and TV/music as a default thing to do. Both venues are places where the volume is not too loud to carry on conversation and you can get a good meal.

 

[SW15]

the volume is not too loud to carry on conversation

That's important. A very specific type of guy can do well in loud venues. Most can't. Carrying on a basic conversation is helpful.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Analogy, OP:

Less than a week ago, FSU experienced their own mini-Columbine, at the hands of some schlep who seems to have been a devotee of Black Pidgeon Speaks and the like. The surviving students and staff can CHOOSE to take this personally, by harboring thoughts such as "If only we wouldnt've hailed Hannah Gadsby as a modern day Belle Barth, while he was sitting two tables away in the cafeteria, dude might've played Duck Hunt with the 5 year olds across the street at Play Care, instead of with us", then be wracked by overwhelming emotional agony subsequently

OR

They can handle these same events by taking a cue from Steve Martin here

, by NOT personalizing them("He hated this wallpaper!!! Replace that sh-t with something a bit more stylish!!!"), and suffer a lot less

The same is true of all aspects of dating and mating. Rejection included!!!

 

[Vanderdonck]

No, I'm not crushed when I get a trivia question wrong. For that matter, in general, I don't tend to be crushed when I'm wrong about stuff.

A woman's interest level in me is the one exception where I am crushed when I turn out to be wrong.

As for why a woman's interest level is the one exception? Because I end up blaming my autism for why I misread her interest level (and I'm extremely self-conscious of my autism).

When I think a girl/woman is into me, I've been wrong the vast majority of the time (in the cases where I've gotten an answer at least)

Well you could flip this on its head and just think "well how am I supposed to know? I have autism." That way you could approach any woman you want without regard to "interest level."

Dirty little secret: IL and IOIs are not great initial indicators, anyway. No matter what you still have to approach, talk, and ask out. If she says yes that's the IOI, forget all the sub comm stuff. Same as going in for a kiss on a date. If more men just went for the girls they want, they'd be surprised by the results. Too much reliance on signaling from her will just get inside your head.

So instead of "I have no idea if she likes me " make it "I have no idea if she likes me! "

 

[jhonny9546]

The fact I misread a woman's interest level yet again was why I was crushed.

It's not your fault. I just think we cannot understand women. So we "just do it"

omen who are at work when they meet you are not sexually attracted to you.

This wasn't my case

 

[CornbreadFed]

Yeah for you, cause you think a beautiful girl with higher status (whatever that $hit means) than you is out of your league. Keep thinking that way, less competition for us.

Cool

 

[GoodMan32]

Hotel bars are total duds for meeting people. They are bland and almost never popular social spots. The places I suggested ARE social hot spots where people show up there to mingle. It makes all the difference in the world because the vibe/energy of a place can be entirely different.

You have to be somewhere busy enough to have some forced proximity near other people (like at the next seat at the bar on either side). That forced proximity creates opportunity for interaction/conversation to happen as a result of said proximity.

This is why I suggested the 2 very specific venues. They are NOT comparable to a bland hotel bar at a Marriott somewhere.....not at all.

I also did NOT suggest, for example, a couple of the packed very popular high end luxury hotels that have a massive social scene filled with beautiful people in PHX metro. They also create forced proximity but I wouldn't send anyone but very seasoned confident people into that environment. At hotels many people are not local and tend to stick with their already established group. Those environments are inherently more insular, and not for getting one's feet wet.

So until he does my actual assigment? He's the excuse maker and the problem.

Without revealing where exactly I stayed on my Texas trip, I will share this much:

• I stayed at an off-brand hotel (not a total dump, yet not luxurious by any means)
• Unlike many hotels, the bar at the hotel wasn't affiliated with the hotel. The bar was independently-owned...and appeared to be popular with the wider community (the bar is well-known in the area for its live music scene)

What I'm trying to say is: The hotel bar experiment in Texas is pretty comparable to the assignment you gave me.

That's a good point on hotel bars and I hadn't fully considered that in my response above. I don't tend to spend time in hotel bars.

I agree on the point of forced proximity.

Let's see what happens if he were to try those 2 specific venues early in the week weeknights.



That is a valid point.

He would get crushed at a place like Bottled Blonde or El Hefe in Old Town Scottsdale on the weekend.

Many of the bars I went to in Old Town Scottsdale in the 2000s are now closed. I have been to bars in Old Town since moving away on a few trips back to the area so I still have some familiarity with the scene.

My next traveling-by-myself trip is this summer. Experimenting is easier for me in places I'm visiting. I'm open to trying an experiment on my summer trip.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I've seen the idea bounced around on the internet that it's nothing personal when a woman rejects a guy.

That's the biggest bull$hit ever.

Are there some instances where a woman's rejection of a guy is nothing personal? Absolutely.

There are many instances, however, where the rejection is personal. Many times, a rejection happens because of something the guy said or did (and the rejection wouldn't have happened if he didn't say/do whatever thing drove her to reject him). It's been discussed in length on the forum about how all it takes to get rejected (or to make the woman quickly lose interest) is for the guy to say/do even one thing that gives her the ick factor.

Now for some examples of a rejection that isn't personal: If a woman rejects a guy for his looks, height, ethnicity, etc.

If she's not into your looks, height, or ethnicity, there is absolutely nothing you can say or do to make her want to be with you (except maybe becoming extremely wealthy)

As for me, I'd much rather get rejected for my looks, height, or ethnicity than get rejected for saying or doing the "wrong" thing. At least with a looks/height/ethnic rejection, it doesn't mean the woman thinks there's anything flawed with me personally. Alas though, I'd venture to guess way more of my rejections (as well as instances where the woman quickly loses interest) have been of the personal variety.

Whether it or it isn’t doesn’t matter. The result is the same: the woman rejected the man.

 

[CornbreadFed]

What I'm trying to say is: The hotel bar experiment in Texas is pretty comparable to the assignment you gave me.

If you are trying to cold approach in Texas than you are better off in Houston, San Antonio, or Austin. Dallas and the rest are going to be more tight knit and uptight making it harder to approach strangers.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I saw leagues were mentioned. Yes, they exist, and generally speaking women from the upper crust of society aren’t inclined to associate with men who aren’t from it. Men out of such a league aren’t even in the orbit of such women. They don’t live near each other, generally don’t go to school together, don’t live in the same towns, and don’t go to the same places.

Regarding leagues, a few weeks ago I told my attractive, middle-class, college-going female cousin about her delusional hypergamy, “The man you desire exists. You’re just not even going to meet him.”

 

[Solomon]

I saw leagues were mentioned. Yes, they exist, and generally speaking women from the upper crust of society aren’t inclined to associate with men who aren’t from it. Men out of such a league aren’t even in the orbit of such women. They don’t live near each other, generally don’t go to school together, don’t live in the same towns, and don’t go to the same places.

Regarding leagues, a few weeks ago I told my attractive, middle-class, college-going female cousin about her delusional hypergamy, “The man you desire exists. You’re just not even going to meet him.”

Totally agree with this, I've talked about this before, how once I started making more money, I started hanging out in different social circles and people. When I was broke I didn't have access to those people like that. The trust fund chick is not looking for her future husband or boyfriend on Tinder. Guys on here think "No that's no true I've seen them" the exception isn't the rule

 

[CornbreadFed]

Totally agree with this, I've talked about this before, how once I started making more money, I started hanging out in different social circles and people. When I was broke I didn't have access to those people like that. The trust fund chick is not looking for her future husband or boyfriend on Tinder. Guys on here think "No that's no true I've seen them" the exception isn't the rule

They are all over the apps where I am at.

 

[Solomon]

They are all over the apps where I am at.

How do you know they are all trust fund chicks?

 

[Manure Spherian]

Totally agree with this, I've talked about this before, how once I started making more money, I started hanging out in different social circles and people. When I was broke I didn't have access to those people like that. The trust fund chick is not looking for her future husband or boyfriend on Tinder. Guys on here think "No that's no true I've seen them" the exception isn't the rule

Correct. And it doesn’t matter what men think or frame themselves as. Eg, “You just think you’re out of her league”. Such a woman might consider a man in a lower league physically attractive—and still not care to talk to him because of his lower status.

Whether this is personal or not, who cares?

 

[CornbreadFed]

How do you know they are all trust fund chicks?

A mix of they told me, I already know some that are on the apps, and their previous partners. These women use OLD as a secondary method mainly.