The harsh truth about social circle game

CornbreadFed

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If you identify as red/black pill or as a PUA, social circle game may not be a priority for you since social circles are typically geared towards individuals with different perspectives (blue-pilled men). One of the major drawbacks of following the Pill ideologies or PUA styles is that it can hinder your ability to emotionally connect with women who don't adhere to those ideologies. While these approaches may have some success with promiscuous or unconventional women, they may not resonate well with women who fall within the norm. Joining a social circle alone won't automatically make you more attractive to women; you still need to engage in conversation and seduction like any other approach. If you want to navigate social circles successfully, it might be beneficial to adopt a purple pill approach. However, if you approach social circles with extreme ideologies such as quoting wheat waffles or Andrew Tatism, you may risk being stigmatized with the Scarlett S and labeled negatively.
 

SW15

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social circles are typically geared towards individuals with different perspectives (blue-pilled men).
Agree that most social circles have a blue pilled ideology about relationships. Although the "pill framework" is more applicable to men's viewpoints on relationships, the typical female in a social circle has a view of romantic relationships that is close to that of a blue pill male.

One of the major drawbacks of following the Pill ideologies or PUA styles is that it can hinder your ability to emotionally connect with women who don't adhere to those ideologies. While these approaches may have some success with promiscuous or unconventional women, they may not resonate well with women who fall within the norm.
Most women fall within the norm. Isn't the whole point of PUA/red pill to be able to connect with women who fall within the norm? I think plenty of think who have read attraction-seduction materials have had sex and even formed extended romantic relationships with women falling within the norm.

Joining a social circle alone won't automatically make you more attractive to women; you still need to engage in conversation and seduction like any other approach. If you want to navigate social circles successfully, it might be beneficial to adopt a purple pill approach.
Within social circles, at most you can lightly hint at red pill, alternative perspectives to romantic relationships.

Social circle is great for getting a girlfriend. Pay close attention to the words "a girlfriend". That means one girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (2-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is social circle. Many men who get social circle girlfriends tend to retain those girlfriends for a long time and often beyond the useful life of the relationship. A lot of the social circle girlfriend guys are beta males and beta males operate from a scarcity mindset. It's common to see a 10 year relationship (and counting) relationship from social circle which does lead to a marriage proposal.

A social circle introduction is a higher percentage play than a swipe app interaction or approaching a stranger (either in a bar or non-bar setting). It's a more difficult path and it's not a path I recommend highly. Social circle is better in the shorter to medium term. You can get a solid, medium term (1-4 years) girlfriend via social circles more easily than through approaches or swiping more easily.

The problem with social circles becomes sustainability over a longer period of time (5+ years). Social circles have a way of getting pissed off at men who continually exchange girlfriends without marriage or babies, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). After 2 or so instances of medium term relationships, the social circle will run dry. Social circle is not likely ideal for a serial monogamist who does have extended relationships but doesn't commit or the player type who tends to have relationships of less than 1 year.

LTRs seem to be the ticket for most men into regular sex at most phases of life. That's why a lot of people have them and stay in them, even beyond their useful life (think long term sexless marriages).

if you approach social circles with extreme ideologies such as quoting wheat waffles or Andrew Tatism, you may risk being stigmatized with the Scarlett S and labeled negatively.
Quoting Wheat Waffles or Andrew Tate directly won't be warmly received in most social circles. 7-10 years ago, linking to Return of Kings articles was not warmly received in most social circles. In those days, Return of Kings was the most prominently red pill website.

The following thread will be good supplemental reading to whatever this thread becomes.

 

CornbreadFed

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Most women fall within the norm. Isn't the whole point of PUA/red pill to be able to connect with women who fall within the norm? I think plenty of think who have read attraction-seduction materials have had sex and even formed extended romantic relationships with women falling within the norm.
I would say norm for women you wouldn't see going to frequenting bars and clubs or constantly on the apps. If you are day game approacher you are exposed more of these women and you either have an adapted style or you maybe you just filter them out and get the club rats you find lol.
 

CornbreadFed

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The problem with social circles becomes sustainability over a longer period of time (5+ years). Social circles have a way of getting pissed off at men who continually exchange girlfriends without marriage or babies, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). After 2 or so instances of medium term relationships, the social circle will run dry. Social circle is not likely ideal for a serial monogamist who does have extended relationships but doesn't commit or the player type who tends to have relationships of less than 1 year.
Exactly this, even if you don't date around in the social circle, single men are seen as embarrassing or a threat.
 

Barrister

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OP,

No woman is ever going to "adhere" to red pill (and especially not black pill). If you even mention it to them, you are likely to get labelled a misogynist or worse since mainstream society doesn't really understand it - it is just viewed as a bunch of guys who want to take advantage of women. You shouldn't ever even mention this kind of thing to women; it would be like showing a fish your pole and lure and explaining how it works to catch it. This goes regardless of whether you are talking to women in your social circle or outside of it.

To your point about social circle, they are most definitely "long game" situations. You aren't going to be plating multiple women in a social circle. You can probably bang one woman and then you will be cut off. Could be different if you are serial monogamist as @SW15 pointed out above - but I won't just repeat what he said.
 

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Mode One or GTFO.
 

SW15

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I would say norm for women you wouldn't see going to frequenting bars and clubs or constantly on the apps. If you are day game approacher you are exposed more of these women and you either have an adapted style or you maybe you just filter them out and get the club rats you find
A good portion of women use swipe apps now but a lot still don't use them, despite the fact that tech-based dating has been de-stigmatized for 20 years and in existence for almost 30 years at this point. Match.com launched in 1995, which was 28 years ago. If more women used them, Tinder/Bumble/Hinge wouldn't be sausage fests.

A lot of nightlife venues are sausage fests at any given time as well.

Based on the fact that we've identified both swipe apps and nightlife venues as sausage fests, the rational conclusion is that it is less of a norm for women to be regulars in nightlife venues or swipe app users.

Non-bar approaching (commonly called day game) is a way to balance out the ratios and be exposed to more women. Venue selection is important in non-bar approaching. The best venues are typically located in neighborhoods of a metro area with a higher concentration of unmarried people. Even when a daygamer male selects better than average venues, it is far from a guarantee that will mean anything.

Most women are in some sort of relationship at any given time and are not open to new penis. Even with better ratios from non-bar approaching, the fact that a lot of potential prospects wouldn't be interested is a factor that somewhat negates the better ratios.

Many women not seeking new penis have a way of using body language to discourage approaches. This reduces the number of approaches that she will field. In general, a smaller subset of men do non-bar approaches. Non-bar approaches have always been a bit of a niche activity because it is rather difficult to start a conversation with an unknown woman while sober and create a romantic/sexual attraction.

A good example of good ratios not meaning a lot is fitness classes. Most fitness classes, regardless of where they are held or the format, are majority female. However, despite amazing ratios, it's quite difficult to get dates from attending fitness classes. A lot of women in fitness classes have either boyfriends or husbands and are not receptive to the idea of getting some new penis. There are also some unattractive women in classes or women who give off some bad body language, such as resting biatch face. It's not easy to find a somewhat attractive looking woman or better who is open to new penis in a fitness class.

The problem with social circles becomes sustainability over a longer period of time (5+ years). Social circles have a way of getting pissed off at men who continually exchange girlfriends without marriage or babies, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). After 2 or so instances of medium term relationships, the social circle will run dry. Social circle is not likely ideal for a serial monogamist who does have extended relationships but doesn't commit or the player type who tends to have relationships of less than 1 year.
Exactly this, even if you don't date around in the social circle, single men are seen as embarrassing or a threat.
This point needs some clarification and expansion.

Most social circles after age 30 are hostile to never married, unattached men. Yes, you're correct that these men are seen as embarrassing or a threat. If a social circle is comprised of people mainly age 30+, it is going to be a couples dominated social circle with a generally blue pilled ideology towards relationships.

This hostility is usually not overt. It is covert. It is putting unattached men in social situations where mostly everyone is a couple, which is uncomfortable for both the couples and single. Often times, due to this mutual discomfort, the never married single man is excluded from a lot of these gatherings. Married men are also notorious for reducing or outright dropping never married, childless men from their lives, either for one-on-one type get togethers. As time passes, and most of the couples have kids, the never married, childless man is pushed even further away from the social circle.

The thread below is a good reference point on what happens within social circles when social circles start having children....


Divorced men are generally treated better by social circles because divorced men did follow the blue pill narrative of getting married at some point in life. There can be some variance on how some social circles treat divorced men, but many social circles are at least empathetic to divorced men, whereas they are more covertly hostile to never married men.

No woman is ever going to "adhere" to red pill (and especially not black pill). If you even mention it to them, you are likely to get labelled a misogynist or worse since mainstream society doesn't really understand it - it is just viewed as a bunch of guys who want to take advantage of women. You shouldn't ever even mention this kind of thing to women; it would be like showing a fish your pole and lure and explaining how it works to catch it. This goes regardless of whether you are talking to women in your social circle or outside of it.
In a social circle, the most that any man can get away with are slight hints of red pill praxeology. You cannot go into any real depth on any element of red pill praxeology. Saying anything that would be more than 1-2 sentences in "The Rational Male" would create negative feelings in social circles. Definitely don't mention red pill praxeology to women. Even Rollo Tomassi says this.

To your point about social circle, they are most definitely "long game" situations. You aren't going to be plating multiple women in a social circle. You can probably bang one woman and then you will be cut off. Could be different if you are serial monogamist as @SW15 pointed out above - but I won't just repeat what he said.
Yes, this is true. Social circle is used for getting girlfriends. There are advantages to having LTRs.

Social circles won't mind a failed match if its something like 1-2 dates and no sex. Both sides would walk away from that with few to no hard feelings. Additionally, in a situation where a social circle introduction doesn't end up working, both sides will treat each other with dignity and respect. When an interaction fails in 1-2 dates without sex via swipe app or in-person approach, there is rarely dignity or respect involved. The only reason there is dignity and respect involved in a social circle interaction is because both sides fear the social circle repercussions of bad behavior being reported to the circle. When women ghost, flake, act rude, or misbehave towards men they meet from apps or in-person stranger approaches, the individual woman's social circle is never informed of her behavior. She has no social consequences for her bad behavior.

Social circles do not look kindly upon casual sex and plating type interactions. Don't even try.

Social circles will be somewhat empathetic and understanding if an extended relationship set up by the circle ends up failing without a marriage in something like 1-3 years, provided that it's a relationship that simply ran its natural course. A man can probably get away with this once and then get a 2nd social circle introduction. Beyond that, and he will be cut off from introductions by the circle.

Social circles are more fully empathetic when a social circle arranged pair ends up divorcing after something like 5+ years together. Results may vary in these situations.

Most men who get relationships from social circles are beta males. This happens by definition since most men are beta males in general. A social circle can make a huge difference for a beta male. A social circle can be the difference between a beta male having a semi active sex life or being an incel or borderline incel. When you hear about beta males struggling in the dating market, you're hearing about beta males struggling because they have either already exhausted their social circle options or they don't have a social circle for a variety of reasons, some of which are out of that beta's control. Past relocations weaken social circles so relocations are a common reason for a beta to lack a social circle and to be forced into either using apps, sending DMs, or doing approaches. Most betas will choose the apps or DMs. The men who approaches tend to be more alpha or sigma, but it is possible for betas to do in-person approaches.
 

CornbreadFed

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A good portion of women use swipe apps now but a lot still don't use them, despite the fact that tech-based dating has been de-stigmatized for 20 years and in existence for almost 30 years at this point. Match.com launched in 1995, which was 28 years ago. If more women used them, Tinder/Bumble/Hinge wouldn't be sausage fests.
They might cave into a swipe app for a few weeks before giving up. These are the prime targets for swipe apps FYI.
 

Gamisch

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OP,

No woman is ever going to "adhere" to red pill (and especially not black pill). If you even mention it to them, you are likely to get labelled a misogynist or worse since mainstream society doesn't really understand it - it is just viewed as a bunch of guys who want to take advantage of women. You shouldn't ever even mention this kind of thing to women; it would be like showing a fish your pole and lure and explaining how it works to catch it. This goes regardless of whether you are talking to women in your social circle or outside of it.

To your point about social circle, they are most definitely "long game" situations. You aren't going to be plating multiple women in a social circle. You can probably bang one woman and then you will be cut off. Could be different if you are serial monogamist as @SW15 pointed out above - but I won't just repeat what he said.
Great description.

I keep seeing more and more socalled "redpill gurus " on YouTube and the first thing that always comes to mind is WHY do you even argue with women about RP shyte?

I've been (oke,trolling) on r/exredpill and it kinds of mimics how an interaction about this topic with a woman might go. Women will indeed label it as manipulation tactics, used by men who try to abuse women. Period. Thats it . That's as deep as it will go. They don't understand the deeper layer about how even a social circle man can actually become aware of seduction and maintaining attraction. Or how a man individually might grow even if it just by looking for other men that are eager to learn and share wisdom.

Nothing that happens now or is talked about in the manosphere today didn't happen 2000 years ago already. Still it's pointless to argue with women about redpill stuff, ESPECIALLY public like on television when they'll have to defend the sisterhood by default.

@SW15 great posts man.
 

Barrister

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Great description.

I keep seeing more and more socalled "redpill gurus " on YouTube and the first thing that always comes to mind is WHY do you even argue with women about RP shyte?

I've been (oke,trolling) on r/exredpill and it kinds of mimics how an interaction about this topic with a woman might go. Women will indeed label it as manipulation tactics, used by men who try to abuse women. Period. Thats it . That's as deep as it will go. They don't understand the deeper layer about how even a social circle man can actually become aware of seduction and maintaining attraction. Or how a man individually might grow even if it just by looking for other men that are eager to learn and share wisdom.

Nothing that happens now or is talked about in the manosphere today didn't happen 2000 years ago already. Still it's pointless to argue with women about redpill stuff, ESPECIALLY public like on television when they'll have to defend the sisterhood by default.

@SW15 great posts man.
I will admit that I literally almost never watch any of the current red-pill "gurus" online. If you stick with the fish analogy, the fish is always going to tell the fisherman that his pole will never work to catch him. Women will do the same. They don't want to feel like there is a solution for dealing with their BS or having higher success in the field with attracting them because it takes away from their free-will and "uniqueness" (since all modern women think of themselves as these highly independent badasses). So yes - these "gurus" who bring women onto their show or podcast to debate these topics is downright silly and really makes you question how red-pilled these "gurus" really are in the first place.
 

Bigpapa

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Social circle game is not about adhering to the friends you know and stuff like that, but more about being sociable in order to make new friends wherever you go

For example befriending with the staff at a bar or club that you go to

Most of the circles that people have, as they are usually made up either or mostly single men either or couples. Very rarely a guy has a social circle made up almost entirely by women

Gay guys are great as social circle, as they predominately have a social circle entirely made up by women. Think about the artsy type of guys like photographers or fashion designers for example

But as an idea social circle is mainly about befriending with people that have some sort of a social status that you want to adhere to, but it is true that you also need to have something to bring to the table, like being a cool guy

For example art exhibitions or wine tasting are a great way to expand your social circle . If you like to travel, you can adhere to one of these communities
 

SW15

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Most of the circles that people have, as they are usually made up either or mostly single men either or couples. Very rarely a guy has a social circle made up almost entirely by women

Gay guys are great as social circle, as they predominately have a social circle entirely made up by women. Think about the artsy type of guys like photographers or fashion designers for example
This is so important to realize and so true.
 

CornbreadFed

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Gay guys are great as social circle, as they predominately have a social circle entirely made up by women. Think about the artsy type of guys like photographers or fashion designers for example
Gay guys tend to be drama tinder boxes and mega **** blocks. I’d rather my girl be friends with an ex than a gay guy tbh.
 

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Gay guys tend to be drama tinder boxes and mega **** blocks. I’d rather my girl be friends with an ex than a gay guy tbh.
I hear you on this one. My experience is that if the gay guy is friends with your girl first, it would most likely behave in a protective way towards her or play “her team”.

However, my experience is also that the gay friend other posters are referring to is the type of gay friend that becomes your friend first
AND very important you then become good friends.

Then you can tap the girls in his social circle without a problem, in fact, he most likely will be happy to go in “Cupid” or matchmaker mode for you.
 

Bigpapa

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I hear you on this one. My experience is that if the gay guy is friends with your girl first, it would most likely behave in a protective way towards her or play “her team”.

However, my experience is also that the gay friend other posters are referring to is the type of gay friend that becomes your friend first
AND very important you then become good friends.

Then you can tap the girls in his social circle without a problem, in fact, he most likely will be happy to go in “Cupid” or matchmaker mode for you.
It does not mean that if someone is gay, automatically he can be your wingman

Most gay people are quite weird from a social point of view, but those who are not they are good to be in your social circle ( that is why the swipe apps were a big success in the gay community, due to the fact that a big proportion of them are quite socially weird )

The not socially awkward gay guys will be ok for you to hit on their friends in the vast majority of cases , as long as you calibrated and his friends enjoy talking with you
 

DreamAgain

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If you identify as red/black pill or as a PUA, social circle game may not be a priority for you since social circles are typically geared towards individuals with different perspectives (blue-pilled men). One of the major drawbacks of following the Pill ideologies or PUA styles is that it can hinder your ability to emotionally connect with women who don't adhere to those ideologies. While these approaches may have some success with promiscuous or unconventional women, they may not resonate well with women who fall within the norm. Joining a social circle alone won't automatically make you more attractive to women; you still need to engage in conversation and seduction like any other approach. If you want to navigate social circles successfully, it might be beneficial to adopt a purple pill approach. However, if you approach social circles with extreme ideologies such as quoting wheat waffles or Andrew Tatism, you may risk being stigmatized with the Scarlett S and labeled negatively.
Social circle game, to me, does not mean hitting on a woman I see as friends, I don't do that. I will instead see if there is potential she can introduce me to a contact she has that would have romantic potential.

So, in fact the concept of social circle game doesn't exist. You don't game anyone in your social circle. You game new contacts that your social circle may introduce you to.
 

lgbs2004

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Social circles are great for opening doors to other social circles.

Specific circle members can introduce you to women outside the circle and those are easier to pick up because they won't be worried about appearing promiscuous to other circle members.

Women from different circles might not even know each other, which allows you to play the numbers.
 
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