The Great Irony of the SMV theory

[backbreaker]

over / under on how many more posts we go before cord posts the pic of his asian GF

I say under 7.

(just kidding buddy.. kinda)

 

[Lexington]

Back to your scale, yeah I didn't really agree with it, but it would be hard to post one that everybody universally agreed with. I thought the HB8s were probably the most accurate, although they just seemed to be a series of pictures of very young girls.

Really, the 4s and below are fairly irrelevant and all blend together into one undoable mess. I noticed under the 1s there was a picture of that poor woman who had a face implant.

There is no scale that would be universally agreed upon. Some of the 9s were 7s in my book. Some girls were underrated and others were overrated. At the end of the day, the HB rating scale is very subjective. This why it doesn't even make sense when Stagger says "a male 6 couldn't pickup a HB7 even with 100s of approaches." We wouldn't even be able to reach a strong consensus on whether or not a particular girl is a 7.

Some folks here make it sound like you have a number floating above your head and this number absolutely restricts who you can and can't pickup. There are obviously differences between the fugs and hotties but one man's 9 can easily be another man's 6. Likewise, women have different tastes as well. The only thing any guy can do is to improve what he has going for him and get out there to meet girls.

If a guy can't score a decent piece of tail despite 100s of approaches, he must be particularly bad looking, socially awkward, poorly dressed/groomed, have bad hygiene or some combination of those things.

 

[backbreaker]

(says fvck it in his head)

there is a girl at my gym.. she's actually from Arkansas as well she works at the gym. she's 20 years old. i can see how on the generic HB scale she would be a solid, solid 7. she's very cute. has dimples, braces, very planish kinda face but a cute face. but she is nothing but legs and she has that perfect tone but not athletic look to her and to me she's a legit 8.5 or so, even though face and body wise she's very.. not exotic. i like petite leggy women. it's why my wife to me, even now is a legit 8.5, when she puts it together and throws on the **** me pumps and the dress a 9.. very very leggy, very petite. where as some guys might not rate her that high because she doesn't really have a big ass or big boobs. some guys find the accent a turn off i find it a turn on, etc. some girls like my skin tone some girls don't. etc.

and here is some red / purple pill / matrix **** to think about if you want to really just mind fvck yourself... YOU may not rate a girl a 8 or 9 but another dude may very well because of personal preferences, so just because you value her as a 7 doesn't mean she is a 7. that's why the number scale is such a waste of time.

 

[Stagger Lee]

If a guy can't score a decent piece of tail despite 100s of approaches, he must be particularly bad looking, socially awkward, poorly dressed/groomed, have bad hygiene or some combination of those things.

This is where I disagree with you. I've known plenty of guys that were not particularly bad looking, very socially awkward, poorly dressed and certainly not bad hygiene that couldn't score a particularly looks matched girl regularly with a 100 approaches. Sure they didn't excel in all of those area but they were pretty much near average at least in most all of them.

They usually had to take on older, fatter, uglier women.

Where we are disagree is in just how hypergamous women can afford to be when it comes to the cold approach pick up. I feel you give women more attractiveness credit than they deserve and take for granted that the man can easily be above average and successfully hustle. Things like age, hair, introversion etc, can make things nigh impossible to get what should be considered an average girl.

Men, and even women, tend to underrate men and overrate women. Women vastly under rate men and as either hot or not. In their minds maybe 20% of men are attractive and the rest are cannon fodder.

 

[Lexington]

Where we are disagree is in just how hypergamous women can afford to be when it comes to the cold approach pick up.

Women will always be hypergamous, but the sexual market operates like any market. Just because people want something doesn't mean they can get it. I want a Lamborghini Aventador. I don't think I'll be getting one anytime soon.

I feel you give women more attractiveness credit than they deserve and take for granted that the man can easily be above average and successfully hustle.

The problem here is that "attractiveness credit" cannot be objectively quantified. So yes, while there are some women I would consider 7s who you would rate as 3-4s, it's also possible that your 7s could be my 3-4s.

Things like age, hair, introversion etc, can make things nigh impossible to get what should be considered an average girl.

Again one's standard of an average or good looking girl varies. I like my girls slim, toned and tanned with long legs. Some guys hate that look. One of my friends is into girls with big round asses and a lot of meat on them (yes, he's black). His 9 is my 6.

Men, and even women, tend to underrate men and overrate women. Women vastly under rate men and as either hot or not. In their minds maybe 20% of men are attractive and the rest are cannon fodder.

What women rate as hot can vary tremendously. Some chicks are into dudes with sleeve tats and lots of piercings....they want a particular look. A clean cut guy wearing a nice blazer is going to have a tough time with these types. Some gals are into beef bus juicers. Big muscles turn some women off. Some prefer skinny jean wearing hipsters.

There are certain things that all women are attracted to. But we have to remember that Alphas come in different flavors.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Women will always be hypergamous, but the sexual market operates like any market. Just because people want something doesn't mean they can get it. I want a Lamborghini Aventador. I don't think I'll be getting one anytime soon.

...

The problem here is that "attractiveness credit" cannot be objectively quantified. So yes, while there are some women I would consider 7s who you would rate as 3-4s, it's also possible that your 7s could be my 3-4s.


There are certain things that all women are attracted to. But we have to remember that Alphas come in different flavors.

Precisely. This is why any discussion of SMV (or whatever) is absolutely pointless. Everybody (men, women) has their own subjective values in what they want, and their own skill level.

They also have their own scale of what they'll "accept."

Sure, you can make generalizations, like older women have less choice, and wealthy men have more choice, etc., but these are ONLY generalizations under the assumption of everything else being equal.

Meaning that everything else being equal, older women have less choice.

Everything else being equal, wealthier men have more choice.

Everything else being equal, younger women are more attractive.

Problem is that rarely is "everything else equal."

There's literally hundreds of variables involved in every seduction or pickup, some are hard wired, some are personality based, some are belief based, some are based on what the respective parties had for lunch, or what porno they just watched.

And unlike other forms of economic exchange (of which seduction is, minimizing your effort to maximize your results, based on your own subjective value) there's ZERO money exchanged, AND, that which is exchanged is incredibly hard to quantify or qualify.

That SMV exists is given, as humans all operate on exchange, whether it's exchanging money for bread, or exchanging the position you're sitting in for a new one.

But trying to use any specific interaction (of which you know little, since it's mostly subjective) to derive any insight is absolutely pointless, and impossible.

Unless, of course, you're using the discussion in excruciating detail of SMV to generate excuses for not grabbing your balls and making some moves.

 

[Die Hard]

over / under on how many more posts we go before cord posts the pic of his asian GF

I say under 7.

(just kidding buddy.. kinda)

 

[backbreaker]

i was just reading an article that matureDJ posted in another thread and i was reading the comments section and i think this dude nailed it in 2 sentences

Every girl gets 10-15 years of being hot and desirable. For guys, it's different. You are either attractive all your life or not. Welcome to my world, woman.

 

[SteR]

Backbreaker - much respect but I don't think this guy nailed anything except himself to a cross. If this statement were true, there'd be little point to Sosuave. Or civilization for that matter.

I concur. Although you can certainly argue for the window women have..

 

[zekko]

Lol, what a sad lot some of these fellows are. Old, creepy, and over the hill at 30. What a shame.

There is no scale that would be universally agreed upon. Some of the 9s were 7s in my book. Some girls were underrated and others were overrated. At the end of the day, the HB rating scale is very subjective. This why it doesn't even make sense when Stagger says "a male 6 couldn't pickup a HB7 even with 100s of approaches." We wouldn't even be able to reach a strong consensus on whether or not a particular girl is a 7.

That's true. It surprises me how a girl can be drop dead gorgeous to me, and some other guy finds her repulsive. Maybe the true HB9s are those who appear to be extremely hot to the most people, to the large majority of men.

I know I've said at one time that HB9s get hit on everywhere they go, and if they didn't draw that kind of male attention, then they weren't true HB9s. I've kind of built that into my definition/scale.

 

[Boilermaker]

That's true. It surprises me how a girl can be drop dead gorgeous to me, and some other guy finds her repulsive. Maybe the true HB9s are those who appear to be extremely hot to the most people, to the large majority of men.

I don't think any other normal guy can find a girl,who you think is drop dead gorgeous, repulsive.

There are universally beautiful women, we can safely ignore views or scales who do not conform to those of the majority.

Saying that there is no absolute scale is getting lost in the details, there's always "noise" in signals, whereever you look in life.

The other day somebody was saying something like " Everything Has a Price , even if you found a 100$ bill in the street, you'd still need to pay the price of picking it up."

Same issue here. There is always a scale, a weirdo thinking Angelina Jolie wasn't hot when she was 21 isn't going to change that.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I don't care about the HB rating system. While any two guys may disagree on the rating of a given girl, I believe averaged opinion of guys will agree on whether a girl is attractive, plain or unattractive.

My point is an average to above average guy or a "male 6"in his 30's or older oftentimes is likely to pick up very little and only rather unattractive girls. Someone my call these girls HB6, but I would call them more like HB5-2.

Women don't see sexual pick up as a fair/even trade, and are much less sexually available than men, so females can generally afford to hook up with men 2 divisions higher. HB5's and lower can get hook ups with male 6's and 7's, and the male 8's and up are getting the HB6's and up.

The numbers don't matter only that men have to be at least above average to hook up with mostly average and below females.

 

[zekko]

Every girl gets 10-15 years of being hot and desirable. For guys, it's different. You are either attractive all your life or not. Welcome to my world, woman.

I think there may be a little something to this. But on the other hand, some guys are simply late bloomers. Or some let themselves go.

Game is probably of most value to guys who have all the tools but are just missing the right attitude and/or direction. These guys are already attractive but just need to add the right approach and things take off for them. For other males, it can be hard work fighting for every inch.

Anyway, I'm surprised Backbreaker of all people would espouse this sort of philosophy. Isn't he the guy who said he built himself into the kind of guy that women would want? Who built himself into an entepraneur and works out three hours a day? Although he does say he has always been considered good looking. It certainly doesn't sound like the guy who wrote this thread, "The traps of the 20s and how to be a guaranteed HB8":

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=205118&highlight=hb8

 

[backbreaker]

just beucase you are a catch doesn't mean you can get by without game. i don't think these dudes have any game. at least that's the conclusion i'm starting to come to.

they are starting to remind me of entitled women who hit the wall

i will expand once football goes off

 

[Stagger Lee]

The thing about concluding that a given unsuccessful guy doesn't have game is it's almost impossible to falsify. I know guys that read PUA game for years, do 100's and 1000's of approaches, try indirect game, direct game, jerk game, and everything in between to little success. And the common conclusion is they just need more "game". And in some cases even if the guy interacts well with women but is not sexually very successful, then the problem must be "inner game" lol.

Sometimes it's true a guy just needs to get out more, approach and talk to women and he'll start seeing results. Sometimes a guy just needs to play numbers game and lower his standards a little. But for that to work a guy has to meet at least a minimum threshold of youthfulness, looks and appearance. That threshold can be quite high. Just changing what you say when approaching girls is not going to make much difference.

If you are a youthful and really attractive guy, then you really don't need game. Just about any and everything you say to an attracted girl is perceived positively.

 

[SL2012]

If you are OVER 30, it is ALL ABOUT BEING IN GREAT PHYSICAL SHAPE to get women 10-15 years younger than you.

Being in your 30's and having just an average body is NOT going to cut it, unless maybe you make 75K+ a year.

I see so many guys my age (36) and younger who just look like crap, they are not obese per say, but they have that extra 10,15,20 Lbs that is noticeable in their gut and man tits.

Just read what Jesse Power has to say and I believe he is right.

http://www.seductionscience.com/2011/how-to-attract-younger-women/

 

[backbreaker]

okay zekko,


to fully answer your point, keep in mind what i am saying. I've been pretty clear all thread that my ONLY premise is that I don't believe in SMV theory as it is preached here. I will state that for the record now.

Which means, that as a man ages, his sexual value raises. I am not saying that guys who don't look good don't get more *****. I am not saying guys who dont' make bank don't make more *****

I'm not even saying that guys who don't worked on themselves and over the years have gotten good looking and /or bank, don't get more *****

I"m saying that the SMV chart that is infamous in the manophere is bull**** on it's own premise that by me aging, ***** is just going to start falling in my lap more than it would 10 years ago. That's all I am saying

all i am saying is that my friends, who are pretty avg guys who are single, are having a Harder time getting ***** than they did 10 years ago, well i didn't know them 10 years ago but when i met them they had GF's at the time. they are single now and it's harder. it hsould not be harder it should be easier.

the theory on it's face concludes that if i stay constant.. if i am 25 years old and i have a job making 35k a year and i am a hb7, that when i am 35 and i make 45k ayear and i'm a hb7, ishould get more *****, easier, than when i was 25 and that's not the case.

that's all i am saying. i am not saying that you should not work to break the cycle.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I certainly agree. When I see attractive girls with guys who seem not particularly handsome it's almost always an early 20's guy with an early 20's girl usually around the university dist. I'm not saying the guys are ugly, and I can't even vouch that they're always in a sexual relationship. But far and away that's the only time I see attractive girls with rather average guys.

I know attracting girls was easier for me even 5 years ago. And 10 to 15 years ago with bad game I was turning down sex with girls I couldn't even get today.

 

[Mike32ct]

Agreed. This "theory" about value always increasing with age is PUA feel good nonsense. It's definitely true for some guys, but I don't think it is GENERALLY true.

IMO, it gives guys a false sense of reality and makes them believe that they have ALL the TIME in the WORLD. "Don't worry if you're striking out with 21 year olds when you're 23. You can keep gaming them for another 50 years. It will only get easier lol."

 

[BAPS]

SMV theory 1.0

Men - want beautiful 'virgin' women
Women - want provision by men

That is the commodity to trade in SMV theory

Women - SMV declines as age as they hit the wall
Men - improve in being a provider as get older i.e. get their s**t together provision wise

Problem with SMV theory the mens SMV is rated on him being a beta provider even if he is a chubster.

You cannot negotiate desire. Thats where SMV falls down.
Women may end up with beta provider man on SMV theory but it does not mean she desires him
(Confusion is S in SMV 1.0 is SEXUAL, not for men it aint)

Women got more financial independence so not desperate for Beta Provider. 200 years ago she would take the beta provider and accept thats as good as it gets. Not now........


SMV 2.0

Men - want beautiful women
Women - want male with two aspects
- Provider ability of MALE
- Desire ability of MALE

So OP
Your chunky 30s male friends are:
cruising on the Provider curve of SMV 2.0
are falling down on the Desire ability separate curve of SMV 2.0

The guy in SUPER demand is alpha male with high provider status