The Great Gatsby

[FCB]

Its a pretty interesting story, I read the book when I was younger and watched the remake ina a time I was figuring out a lot of things about myself and past relationships. There are so many messages in this book about human nature and the way people approach and react in relationships as well as the interplay of those relationships with societal expectations and norms.

Gatsby himself is a great study in the mistakes of oneitis and seeing what you want to believe rather than reality. Gatsby was a great man in many ways, but his downfall was the image he couldn't get off of in his head of being with Daisy and that he wasn't born upper crust. He offers her the world and she gets more and more distant, he doesn't hold Daisy accountable for her whimsical attitude or transgressions.

Daisy, plays the innocent victim yet is in control of her actions and choices. Gatsby plays the roll of the boyfriend who is starstruck and sees a character that Daisy plays for him. Daisy plays the constant victim, yet she allows herself to be controlled by the brute husband. Gatsby chooses to see the world the way he wants it to be but no matter what he's made of himself (to win Daisy) they still view him as an outsider, and his insecurity deep down in himself is all the holds him back. If Gatsby just accepted himself he could move on from Daisy, but to him he was never good enough and Daisy was the trophy that would make him complete. No matter how much he accomplished, his weakness for the woman and his insecurities are his downfall. If you peel back the flighty character of Daisy you see a very selfish person, too weak to stand up and take control of their lives who walks through life in a "daze". She's just being, she's not making decisions, she's not considering actions she's just allowing herself to be pulled in multiple directions and cannot be explained through reason or logic, she is playing the role of the helpless woman only along for the ride and never taking control of the wheel.

Its a great example of why you shouldn't live for someone else, you shouldn't have your goals dependent on the approval of other people and you should learn to accept all the amazing things around you and above all else yourself rather then get caught up on the one that slipped through your fingers

 

[dustmuffin]

Wow! That was great!

 

[Julian]

gatsby was full blown beta

 

[fastlife]

gatsby was full blown beta

Lol. The hotel scene at the end is a perfect dramatization of AF/BB. But Gatsby was a natural alpha when he first slept with Daisy--just caught Oneitis and paid the price.

Behind his flowery prose and overt Romanticism, F. Scott had a solid grasp of red pill truth. I'd recommend short stories like "The Last of the Belles," "Winter Dreams," "Basil and Cleopatra,"A New Leaf," "The Bridal Party" for a pretty damn accurate representation of female psychology and intersexual dynamics.

 

[FCB]

The funny thing is Gatsby was so attached to Daisy because she fell in love with him before he was this full blown grand manufactured character. So for him she was the goal but she also knew the real him more then others did, so even though he was trying his hardest to hide who he was he still longed for a woman who wanted him not for his money but who had fallen in love with him for who he was, and his own self doubt is what drove her into her husbands arms initially, driving home the point that self doubt is often times our biggest enemy. Tom Buchanan shows no self doubt coming from a good family with a good background that afforded him that feeling of confidence and the ability to keep frame because he got what he wanted his whole life and never believed he wouldn't.

The difference with Gatsby was although he had achieved so much, much more then Tom he still had the seeds of self doubt which were his downfall. I'm ultra competitive, I love competition and have always been a natural leader and have always had the ability and to change people's opinions and convince them of whatever point I want to make. That combination has lead me to be terrible in relationships, because many times being rejected causes the competitive nature, focus and drive to "win" leads to not letting go of a situation you should. Often times its not even the other person as much as the acceptance of defeat or being told you can't do something causes the same reactions as in other challenges in life. Those aren't beta characteristics, being naturally persuasive, competitive and achieving goals gives you confidence to not quit, but that's counter intuitive to how to pursue and act in relationships. The interplay between alpha behavior in life overall and relationships isn't always the same, developing the alpha mentality in relationships takes learning and is counter intuitive to societal as well logical teachings. Think GG addresses and makes us think about alot of those issues.

 

[OlympicTim]

This post makes me want to read this book

 

[dustmuffin]

This post makes me want to read this book

It is a fantastic book. Time well spent

 

[JohnChops]

I'm ultra competitive, I love competition and have always been a natural leader and have always had the ability and to change people's opinions and convince them of whatever point I want to make. That combination has lead me to be terrible in relationships, because many times being rejected causes the competitive nature, focus and drive to "win" leads to not letting go of a situation you should. Often times its not even the other person as much as the acceptance of defeat or being told you can't do something causes the same reactions as in other challenges in life. Those aren't beta characteristics, being naturally persuasive, competitive and achieving goals gives you confidence to not quit, but that's counter intuitive to how to pursue and act in relationships. The interplay between alpha behavior in life overall and relationships isn't always the same, developing the alpha mentality in relationships takes learning and is counter intuitive to societal as well logical teachings. Think GG addresses and makes us think about alot of those issues.

that last paragraph describes the manifestation of oneitis from the point of view of someone with a competitive mindset. When you jump into this game from a beta -> "alpha" (DJ concepts) you start to see it as just that, a game. If you are someone who is not infatuated with the idea of winning and you do not have a large competitive drive, then you will be well off.

However, there are people, like you and I, who seem to be similar in the area of being competitive in relationships.

I know my oneitis formed from the fact that she liked me before I became who I am today and the fact that I never "won" her lead me to chase her witch led to a cascade of downward spiraling scenarios where I turned "beta" and started to lose the game. When I start to lose, I will do anything to not and to win. Hence the feedback loop of the whole oneitis part of my life.

To anyone who has not read this book/watched the movie, please do. It is amazing.

 

[FCB]

that last paragraph describes the manifestation of oneitis from the point of view of someone with a competitive mindset. When you jump into this game from a beta -> "alpha" (DJ concepts) you start to see it as just that, a game. If you are someone who is not infatuated with the idea of winning and you do not have a large competitive drive, then you will be well off.

However, there are people, like you and I, who seem to be similar in the area of being competitive in relationships.

I know my oneitis formed from the fact that she liked me before I became who I am today and the fact that I never "won" her lead me to chase her witch led to a cascade of downward spiraling scenarios where I turned "beta" and started to lose the game. When I start to lose, I will do anything to not and to win. Hence the feedback loop of the whole oneitis part of my life.

To anyone who has not read this book/watched the movie, please do. It is amazing.

Agreed. I think there is also a trait that leads to this type of behavior that is shared with someone who is self made and has risen from adversity and shown resilience. I know for myself and many others I'm sure, I had a difficult childhood and didn't come from a great home or from money. That created a chip on my shoulder and when I set my mind to something I don't let anything deter me, I don't let others views or doubt sway me from my own internal confidence and ability to rise to whatever occasion presented itself. Its the attitude of I can accomplish anything, but many times that stems from seeing the reactions of others and some amount of self doubt, but you learn to fight that and prove things to yourself, but that doesn't ever guarantee others will give you the same respect or recognition you deserve, and the ones that do you don't focus on because you've won. But when someone comes along and they reject you and don't see what you are made of it can drive into you, and rather then sticking to your self belief and realizing you can't change some people or go back on mistakes no matter how much you do or accomplish you become obsessed with winning this person over and trying to change whatever flaws you think they are rejecting you for.

Its a feedback loop like you say, but the traits that feedback are also unfortunately very usefull, the competitive drive and ability to rise above challenges, but the challenge is and always will be within yourself, you can't fight someone into wanting you, and you can't rewrite mistakes once someone views you in a certain way. It was best said in the Wire "The game is rigged", you either get on board and adjust to the rules as best you can or you go on entering a contest you'll never win. Its a gambling adage really, if you are a good gambler you take games you can win, and the only way to win in a rigged game is to not play.