The dismal state of dating etiquette (beaten to death I'm sure, but gotta rant...)

[DelayedGratification]

Yep it's clearly OLD's fault. All online dating chicks are either crazy, fat or deceptive.

It's a cesspool so you might as well quit OLD.

You had a good run of it though.

Based on your earlier post, this one was obviously calibrated to peg the sarcasm meter. Which is valid.

What I'm not communicating (or you have an agenda to intentionally ignore) is that I'm not blaming the Internet, or saying that other dating environments are some form of utopia. I will say (again), that Buffer makes it much more difficult to read a situation and either work it to a positive outcome or realize earlier that you should move on. This is true of Many Things Internet. Not blaming the Internet per-se, but the offerings on the Internet almost universally have Buffer built into their design.

As with every failure, I try to extract knowledge. In retrospect, the stomach bug thing last week was way too convenient, but I had no way to gauge it. So I learned that there's risk in giving the benefit of the doubt and the resulting opportunity cost of investing mental bandwidth.

I reinforced the lesson that I've been learning that too much texting prior to meetup in an OLD environment raises the emotional stakes, something I'm not finding useful or healthy. In this specific case I don't blame OLD, the fault is hers for making the decision to use a delaying tactic on me, and my fault for making the calculation that any given prospect is a 1% chance until proven otherwise, so not a lot of upside in going along with the delaying tactic.

I learned the lesson (which is arguably applicable in multiple scenarios, not just OLD) that I wasn't reading between the lines on her back story. She is basically revenge-dating (or claiming to, I've no way to verify her story) on a BF who is openly online-dating and she's unhappy about it. I should have next'ed right there, but made a poor decision and engaged her on a lark.

During the text-fest of the past week she mentioned having not had a date since last August, a red flag by itself. Combine that with the revenge-dating angle and the last-minute cold feet, and now I have something to learn from. My take from this thin amount of information is she's in an unhappy relationship but doesn't have the spine to move beyond it. She's tried, failed, and is flailing around until whatever-it-is happens that finally gets her out of that rut.

So fine, I don't need the drama. I also didn't need the opportunity cost associated with finally figuring out this situation. Which was caused by a combination of poor choices on both sides, which were at least partially facilitated by OLD's Buffer.

 

[DelayedGratification]

What I'm not communicating (or you have an agenda to intentionally ignore) is that I'm not blaming the Internet, or saying that other dating environments are some form of utopia. I will say (again), that Buffer makes it much more difficult to read a situation and either work it to a positive outcome or realize earlier that you should move on. This is true of Many Things Internet. Not blaming the Internet per-se, but the offerings on the Internet almost universally have Buffer built into their design.

One footnote here is that my bigger point is that I have limited time and energy to pour into all this, so I have to at least try to optimize ROI from the learning curves I choose to climb. As for OLD/Internet, I think you'll find very few that advocates them as the best thing to happen to dating since the invention of pickup lines. Quite the opposite, from my experience in forums and talking to real people.

But I've been giving them a try. Different venues, trying different angles of approach (profile, pics, strategies for first communication and follow-up communication), and not only am I not getting much in the way of results, but I'm finding it difficult to gain knowledge from the effort. In addition I'm finding the effort to be a time and energy sink, which is a drain on me personally and therefore a drag on my SMV.

So I think my original point is still valid (dating etiquette, especially online, can be pretty toxic). But where I seem to be going with this is where to put my energies. For where I am in my journey, OLD seems, at the very least, to be a place to expend minimal energy. Perhaps to the point of just giving it a rest for awhile.

For example, there's a place not too far from me that gives Bikram Yoga classes. That would be another avenue to increase my fitness, as well as provide an environment to intermingle with (hopefully) attractive women in the process. At the very least I can work on simply being comfortable with approaching and interacting with more women. Maybe as a bonus something more happens. All of that sounds like a better personal growth opportunity and a way to increase my SMV than OLD, which for the moment is having an opposite effect.

I'm sure there's lot of other things along those lines I could check out. These are the opportunity costs to which I've referred in my previous posts.

 

[Spaz]

I might be the only man here who doesn't do OLD.

Sure I've tried it like every other guy that's curious but the novelty wore off soon after finding that most women there are garbage. Social rejects. That's why they're online looking for men as they can't pull men in their immediate surroundings — pitiful huh?

Some might say that ALL women are registered on Tinder or Bumble, perhaps that's true but NOT all or more accurately, the majority of women registered on it out of curiosity and the good nice ones ultimately dismissed it just like I did.

I exclusively get dates from social circles and social circles is easy to attain since everyone wants friends.

I even get dates from the odd camping trips, the odd bus stop, while lazing around the golf/yacth club....just about anywhere where a girl catches my eye.

All you ever need is to cultivate presence.

Women will notice you.

They will approach you as they do with me.

Because women are always on the lookout for men with certain traits that they can't ignore even when they don't wish it so.

 

[DelayedGratification]

I even get dates from the odd camping trips, the odd bus stop, while lazing around the golf/yacth club....just about anywhere where a girl catches my eye.

All you ever need is to cultivate presence.

Women will notice you.

They will approach you as they do with me.

Because women are always on the lookout for men with certain traits that they can't ignore even when they don't wish it so.

^^^ This.

Getting better at this is a much more useful time/energy expenditure on my part. And if I bring OLD back into the mix, I'll be more informed in what to do when dates actually happen.

Meanwhile I continue working on my physical attributes. I'm by no means shredded or bulked, but definitely more fit than the majority of guys out there, especially those in my age group. And sadly, also more fit than those in my target demographic. But that's only half the picture, as you carefully worded it: "presence".

In a very recent post I finally fessed up to having a casual relationship with a poly (a blend of GF/FWB dynamic). She often remarks on "how is it you don't think you're attractive? I don't understand." And that, is what I need work on. I've got a masculine-but-kind facial presence, I'm lean but noticeably muscular, full set of hair, and a decent 5'11''. So no huge physical presence issues holding me back, just internalized mental ones.

 

[Spaz]

^^^ This.

Getting better at this is a much more useful time/energy expenditure on my part. And if I bring OLD back into the mix, I'll be more informed in what to do when dates actually happen.

Meanwhile I continue working on my physical attributes. I'm by no means shredded or bulked, but definitely more fit than the majority of guys out there, especially those in my age group. And sadly, also more fit than those in my target demographic. But that's only half the picture, as you carefully worded it: "presence".

In a very recent post I finally fessed up to having a casual relationship with a poly (a blend of GF/FWB dynamic). She often remarks on "how is it you don't think you're attractive? I don't understand." And that, is what I need work on. I've got a masculine-but-kind facial presence, I'm lean but noticeably muscular, full set of hair, and a decent 5'11''. So no huge physical presence issues holding me back, just internalized mental ones.

Presence is in small part physical and mostly internally generated.

The physical part is easy.

Work on expanding internally.

Your mindset will influence how you carry yourself... every single movement you make is a manifestation of your mindset this is turn generates the vibe that women naturally pick on.

 

[DelayedGratification]

Women on OLD are absolutely overwhelmed with messages from guys. The power is ALL in their hands.

I prefer better odds, and a different venue, for the most part.

Yup. Just came back from a Fet event, and working on emanating self-confidence, being at ease with chatting people up, much more productive use of my energy. Had people remembering my name, which is not typical at these things, at least in my experience.

A bit off topic, but I got invited into a sub/group-scene out of the blue. Not exactly bucket list to be going down on an older sub and getting head from her, but I was one of the chosen few. It was an open scene, so was also an exercise in being comfortable in my own skin. I wasn't the one with the most impressive package, but I held my own on being the fittest.

So the flake on OKC can just take her baggage elsewhere and flake on someone else thank you, there are more constructive uses for my time.

For the little it's worth, I opted not to unmatch her (nor her me), and she has yet to bother giving anything like an apology. That's where the etiquette part comes in. She bailed with "I got cold feet --- I won't be there". If it were me standing somebody up at the last minute, I'd at least have the decency to be apologetic about it. Which is where Buffer comes in, and where OLD's fault lines reside.