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The Dating Market from an Economic Perspective

joesbigship

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I touched upon this topic in another thread but it definitely deserves it's own.

Dating is like any other economic market (with the average life span of 85 years or so, longer if you take of yourself, we are "durable goods." rather than consummables like gas or food), where the highest quality resources command the highest prices and are off the market first. Also, the highest quality "goods" stay off the market once they're acquired.

The lower quality goods are far more abundant. You'll see far more "listings" initially, and they stay on the market often for extended periods. Sometimes, steep discounts are required to get them off market. The lowest quality listings stay on the market for a loooong time.

How to define "quality"? SMV. This consists of both personality as well as appearance. A stripper who is a "10" in appearance may actually be a 5 or even lower overall due to her dishonesty, drug abuse, and sociopathic personality. In this extreme case, a stripper may be on and off the market every hour or even every 15 minutes!

This means that the highest caliber women (looks+personality) are basically off the market as soon as legally possible, typically late teens or early 20's in more traditional cultures, and mid 20's at latest in countries where women go to college and work.These girls DO NOT sleep around, focusing on a very low number of steady boyfriends. Unless you meet these girls VERY early on, such as in high school or at latest just out of college, you are fresh out of luck.

A FEW of these highest quality girls will remain in the dating pool if they've gone to graduate school, but the percentage of single high quality women drops drastically after their early 20's since they are all snatched up so quickly.

So what are viable strategies?

1. stay in a small suburban market (biggoal). If you are looking for or trying to date reasonably attractive women who are 25 to 27 outside of a huge metro area, you might as well be fighting to the death. You are going to have enormous problems finding quality women.

2. move to a major metro area. You would think that this would solve your problems right? Not necessarily. Many major metro areas are now focused on tech. This means a huge male/female imbalance in many cases. Also, these markets have huge economic gaps between the rich and poor. This means that the wealthiest guys can sometimes hoard the highest quality women. It can also alter the mentality of women who can be overwhelmed with offers not only online but IRL as well. SF is a prime example where ALL of the factors mentioned above come into play.

3. boost your SMV. This is smart as it's something that's totally under your control and benefits you regardless of where you move or live.

4. participate in activities where high quality women are abundant. A longer discussion, best left for a separate thread.

5. live in cities with an abundance of young adult women.

6. Combine 3, 4 and 5!


One more word of caution: single attractive women 25+ are starting to become emotionally hardened. They are so much less friendly than women in their late teens and early 20's it's startling. I think it's because they are just about to exit their prime and are becoming laser focused on entering into a "serious" relationship since they see so many of their peers doing the same. The sense of playfulness and kindness can literally disappear over night at that age.

If you are dating in the 25+ age pool, expect lots of problems. Aside from becoming extremely selective, these women are more likely to have had at least one and possibly several painful breakups and may even have faced painful rejections as well, so they could be on the verge of becoming emotionally unpredictable or even outright hostile.

Good luck it's getting tougher. And this is not even mentioning masking, social distancing, vaxx cards and all of the other artificial hoops and barriers since 2020.
 
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SW15

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Dating is like any other economic market (with the average life span of 85 years or so, longer if you take of yourself, we are "durable goods." rather than consummables like gas or food), where the highest quality resources command the highest prices and are off the market first. Also, the highest quality "goods" stay off the market once they're acquired.
I agree that dating resembles other economic market. It's not entirely analogous. Romantic relationships are transient so quality can get on the market. A 21 year old gal can get into a relationship for 2 years and then be back on the market as a 23 year old with little change in her value. Now, if that same woman has 3-4 of those 2-3 year long relationships that fail, she might find herself as a 32 year old woman with a history of multiple, 2-3 year long failed relationships. She would still retain decent value as a 32 year old if she manages to stay childless from those failed relationships. That story is becoming quite common with the Millennials now in their 30s.

The lower quality goods are far more abundant. You'll see far more "listings" initially, and they stay on the market often for extended periods. Sometimes, steep discounts are required to get them off market. The lowest quality listings stay on the market for a loooong time.

How to define "quality"? SMV. This consists of both personality as well as appearance. A stripper who is a "10" in appearance may actually be a 5 or even lower overall due to her dishonesty, drug abuse, and sociopathic personality. In this extreme case, a stripper may be on and off the market every hour or even every 15 minutes!
I can think of a woman who physically is in the "cute" range that applies to this quote. Most men would have rated her somewhere between a 6 and 7.5. I was in a co-ed team sports league with her. She was a fixture on the dating apps for many years after I encountered her in a co-ed sports league, which was astounding to me given her looks. She rejected my advances in the co-ed league. She acted so disinterested when I tried to approach her that I never actually asked her out. I would also see her out at bars from time to time. Anyway, a wedding website popped up with her name on it and apparently she met some man on a swipe app during the worst of the 2020 pandemic. There might have been a steep discount that got her quickly off market. She must have just grabbed whatever beta she could find that was reasonable.

For most men, you'll see more "singles" from behind an electronic screen than you'll see in real life in a lot of cases. That's all an illusion because it's very difficult for most men to break through the e-clutter. Additionally, there are a lot of women who leave good options on the table because of the e-clutter in her inboxes and swipe queues. When a 30/40 something woman utters "Where have all the good men gone?", she's usually being unreasonable. If she's on a swipe app or website (and a lot are), there are plenty of good men in her queue that she's overlooked due to the e-clutter. A lot of time, she's not a great catch either and she's overlooking decent enough options.

This means that the highest caliber women (looks+personality) are basically off the market as soon as legally possible, typically late teens or early 20's in more traditional cultures, and mid 20's at latest in countries where women go to college and work.These girls DO NOT sleep around, focusing on a very low number of steady boyfriends. Unless you meet these girls VERY early on, such as in high school or at latest just out of college, you are fresh out of luck.
In the short to medium run, this is true. One of my very good friends got a cute woman while they were both in college and 10+ years later, they are still a couple. Her looks have declined over the 10+ year period but her looks held out long enough to get the ring and the ceremony. Her notch count is likely sub 5.

Due to the fact that relationships are transient and women are by nature serial monogamists in most cases, a good portion of these women taken off the market early will return to the market in 7-20 years as divorced women, often as single moms.

A FEW of these highest quality girls will remain in the dating pool if they've gone to graduate school, but the percentage of single high quality women drops drastically after their early 20's since they are all snatched up so quickly.
Women who to graduate school are not the highest caliber in most cases. Women who go to graduate school tend to be careerist/feminist. They are often ambitious and their career ambition collides with their ability to be good girlfriends and wives.
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Now, let's review the viability of the strategies.

1. stay in a small suburban market (biggoal). If you are looking for or trying to date reasonably attractive women who are 25 to 27 outside of a huge metro area, you might as well be fighting to the death. You are going to have enormous problems finding quality women.
This isn't viable at all. If you're an area with a population of less than 100,000, you're going to run out of options by your 25th birthday. In these small markets, you need to marry your high school or college sweetheart. You'd better hope you have a good social circle and a good one early in life. You'd better hope your parents did relocate you as a child so your social circle is tighter. If you find yourself 25 and single, you are probably going to have to do the next option.

I have known men in mid-sized metros (150-600,000 or so) that have done well in relationships. One formula for success I've seen is a man in a mid-sized metro who stays geographically fixed his whole life has a good social circle and gets into extended relationships or marriages. If the marriage fails, it's not a big deal because his social circle is so strong and the mid-sized metro is large enough to have some choices. These men tend to be blue pilled guys and are rarely single for any extended period. Their relationships are always 3+ years because they don't want to burn through their social circles by constantly changing women. Social circles will understand and help you if a longer term relationship fails, but they'll sooner or later stop producing if relationships are a year or two or less over a multiyear period.

2. move to a major metro area. You would think that this would solve your problems right? Not necessarily. Many major metro areas are now focused on tech. This means a huge male/female imbalance in many cases. Also, these markets have huge economic gaps between the rich and poor. This means that the wealthiest guys can sometimes hoard the highest quality women. It can also alter the mentality of women who can be overwhelmed with offers not only online but IRL as well. SF is a prime example where ALL of the factors mentioned above come into play.
Moving doesn't always solve dating issues. In fact, too many relocations can cause dating issues because you won't have a social circle anywhere. Most swipe app daters are adults with multiple relocations to their names. They are living far from their childhood home areas. Most U.S. cities suffer from an oversupply of 20s/30s single men relative to 20s/30s single women.

Every major U.S. metro area west of the Mississippi River has a bad ratio for men. The San Francisco example is one of the worst examples out there. San Diego is a historically bad one due to the military presence in the area. Denver has way too many mountain lifestyle men chasing too few women. The list goes on.

The big U.S. Western metros have fierce competition. The metro areas east of the Mississippi River are better but still competitive.

I can identify with the impetus to move from a smaller area to a bigger area. Sometimes, that can help solve an issue. Moving from one major metro to another usually solves nothing.

3. boost your SMV. This is smart as it's something that's totally under your control and benefits you regardless of where you move or live.

4. participate in activities where high quality women are abundant. A longer discussion, best left for a separate thread.
These are the only two viable strategies. Fitness is essential. Staying off the swipe apps is a good idea because the swipe apps have ratios that are even worse than the city at large. So if Denver has a bad ratio in general, ratios on swipe apps in Denver will be even worse.

5. live in cities with an abundance of young adult women.
As said earlier, most U.S. cities suffer from an oversupply of 20s/30s single men relative to 20s/30s single women. Men eventually gain an upper hand in ratio in their 40s but only if they want to date similarly aged women. A lot of women in their 40s come with significant baggage. Even with steep discounts, many aren't worth it.
 

SW15

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One more word of caution: single attractive women 25+ are starting to become emotionally hardened. They are so much less friendly than women in their late teens and early 20's it's startling. I think it's because they are just about to exit their prime and are becoming laser focused on entering into a "serious" relationship since they see so many of their peers doing the same. The sense of playfulness and kindness can literally disappear over night at that age.

If you are dating in the 25+ age pool, expect lots of problems. Aside from becoming extremely selective, these women are more likely to have had at least one and possibly several painful breakups and may even have faced painful rejections as well, so they could be on the verge of becoming emotionally unpredictable or even outright hostile.
Agree.

Good luck it's getting tougher. And this is not even mentioning masking, social distancing, vaxx cards and all of the other artificial hoops and barriers since 2020.
Agree. The things you didn't mention are quite relevant.
 

biggoal

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I touched upon this topic in another thread but it definitely deserves it's own.

Dating is like any other economic market (with the average life span of 85 years or so, longer if you take of yourself, we are "durable goods." rather than consummables like gas or food), where the highest quality resources command the highest prices and are off the market first. Also, the highest quality "goods" stay off the market once they're acquired.

The lower quality goods are far more abundant. You'll see far more "listings" initially, and they stay on the market often for extended periods. Sometimes, steep discounts are required to get them off market. The lowest quality listings stay on the market for a loooong time.

How to define "quality"? SMV. This consists of both personality as well as appearance. A stripper who is a "10" in appearance may actually be a 5 or even lower overall due to her dishonesty, drug abuse, and sociopathic personality. In this extreme case, a stripper may be on and off the market every hour or even every 15 minutes!

This means that the highest caliber women (looks+personality) are basically off the market as soon as legally possible, typically late teens or early 20's in more traditional cultures, and mid 20's at latest in countries where women go to college and work.These girls DO NOT sleep around, focusing on a very low number of steady boyfriends. Unless you meet these girls VERY early on, such as in high school or at latest just out of college, you are fresh out of luck.

A FEW of these highest quality girls will remain in the dating pool if they've gone to graduate school, but the percentage of single high quality women drops drastically after their early 20's since they are all snatched up so quickly.

So what are viable strategies?

1. stay in a small suburban market (biggoal). If you are looking for or trying to date reasonably attractive women who are 25 to 27 outside of a huge metro area, you might as well be fighting to the death. You are going to have enormous problems finding quality women.

2. move to a major metro area. You would think that this would solve your problems right? Not necessarily. Many major metro areas are now focused on tech. This means a huge male/female imbalance in many cases. Also, these markets have huge economic gaps between the rich and poor. This means that the wealthiest guys can sometimes hoard the highest quality women. It can also alter the mentality of women who can be overwhelmed with offers not only online but IRL as well. SF is a prime example where ALL of the factors mentioned above come into play.

3. boost your SMV. This is smart as it's something that's totally under your control and benefits you regardless of where you move or live.

4. participate in activities where high quality women are abundant. A longer discussion, best left for a separate thread.

5. live in cities with an abundance of young adult women.

6. Combine 3, 4 and 5!


One more word of caution: single attractive women 25+ are starting to become emotionally hardened. They are so much less friendly than women in their late teens and early 20's it's startling. I think it's because they are just about to exit their prime and are becoming laser focused on entering into a "serious" relationship since they see so many of their peers doing the same. The sense of playfulness and kindness can literally disappear over night at that age.

If you are dating in the 25+ age pool, expect lots of problems. Aside from becoming extremely selective, these women are more likely to have had at least one and possibly several painful breakups and may even have faced painful rejections as well, so they could be on the verge of becoming emotionally unpredictable or even outright hostile.

Good luck it's getting tougher. And this is not even mentioning masking, social distancing, vaxx cards and all of the other artificial hoops and barriers since 2020.
larger metro areas are better. I can put in my old zipcode in St. Louis somewhere like match and the women are MUCH better looking, less damaged, no kids, never married, more educated than if I put in my zipcode within 50 miles of my current location in FL.

Tampa and orlando have much better numbers of women and in shape, less damaged women as well.

It's funny. On OLD it stinks within 40 miles of here. But I have better look and been on dates with women who live further away. Heck even if I message a woman in the Tampa area I can get replies even offers to go on dates.

Like last time I was up there I checked my Bumble. Didn't use it for a month so it's totally on the bottom of the deck ELO wise. Despite this I got likes on Bumble suddenly when I was in the tampa area despite that.

I think in younger metro areas the women are not getting bombarded nearly as much as areas like mine with a very old population. Around here there are hardly any decent looking women on OLD so the men swarm the very few.
 

MatureDJ

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I touched upon this topic in another thread but it definitely deserves it's own.

Dating is like any other economic market (with the average life span of 85 years or so, longer if you take of yourself, we are "durable goods." rather than consummables like gas or food), where the highest quality resources command the highest prices and are off the market first. Also, the highest quality "goods" stay off the market once they're acquired.

The lower quality goods are far more abundant. You'll see far more "listings" initially, and they stay on the market often for extended periods. Sometimes, steep discounts are required to get them off market. The lowest quality listings stay on the market for a loooong time.

How to define "quality"? SMV. This consists of both personality as well as appearance. A stripper who is a "10" in appearance may actually be a 5 or even lower overall due to her dishonesty, drug abuse, and sociopathic personality. In this extreme case, a stripper may be on and off the market every hour or even every 15 minutes!

This means that the highest caliber women (looks+personality) are basically off the market as soon as legally possible, typically late teens or early 20's in more traditional cultures, and mid 20's at latest in countries where women go to college and work.These girls DO NOT sleep around, focusing on a very low number of steady boyfriends. Unless you meet these girls VERY early on, such as in high school or at latest just out of college, you are fresh out of luck.

A FEW of these highest quality girls will remain in the dating pool if they've gone to graduate school, but the percentage of single high quality women drops drastically after their early 20's since they are all snatched up so quickly.

So what are viable strategies?

1. stay in a small suburban market (biggoal). If you are looking for or trying to date reasonably attractive women who are 25 to 27 outside of a huge metro area, you might as well be fighting to the death. You are going to have enormous problems finding quality women.

2. move to a major metro area. You would think that this would solve your problems right? Not necessarily. Many major metro areas are now focused on tech. This means a huge male/female imbalance in many cases. Also, these markets have huge economic gaps between the rich and poor. This means that the wealthiest guys can sometimes hoard the highest quality women. It can also alter the mentality of women who can be overwhelmed with offers not only online but IRL as well. SF is a prime example where ALL of the factors mentioned above come into play.

3. boost your SMV. This is smart as it's something that's totally under your control and benefits you regardless of where you move or live.

4. participate in activities where high quality women are abundant. A longer discussion, best left for a separate thread.

5. live in cities with an abundance of young adult women.

6. Combine 3, 4 and 5!


One more word of caution: single attractive women 25+ are starting to become emotionally hardened. They are so much less friendly than women in their late teens and early 20's it's startling. I think it's because they are just about to exit their prime and are becoming laser focused on entering into a "serious" relationship since they see so many of their peers doing the same. The sense of playfulness and kindness can literally disappear over night at that age.

If you are dating in the 25+ age pool, expect lots of problems. Aside from becoming extremely selective, these women are more likely to have had at least one and possibly several painful breakups and may even have faced painful rejections as well, so they could be on the verge of becoming emotionally unpredictable or even outright hostile.

Good luck it's getting tougher. And this is not even mentioning masking, social distancing, vaxx cards and all of the other artificial hoops and barriers since 2020.
This is all common knowledge to us greybeards, but it's nice to see new members of the community figure it out.

The best cities for an abundance of young adult women are college towns - i.e., flagship state university. Outside of that, it would need to be places that don't really have outdoor activities since those places are man magnets, like Menver, Colorado.
 
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