The Conflicting Intentions Of Men & Women

jamesfromhouston

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Hi DJs,


I've been thinking about this lately:

It's been often said that women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationship.

Generally from the standpoint of pure intentions, women seek relationship from men and men seek sex from women. Of course there are exceptions to this. Regardless I found this to be very true in my experience.

But these are at odds with one another because sex does not necessitate a relationship and where possible and acceptable most men will seek sex with multiple attractive women which is beyond the bounds of most conventional relationships that women expect. For women, the relationship they seek tends to revolve around commitment and dedication from the men they seek it from. In most cases, it does not necessitate sex. There are people who are married or together in LTRs that are sexless. And even if sex is involved, it necessitates commitment, sex with them and only them.

Therefore, men and women are fundamentally at odds with one another.

Ideally, we men (who seek sex) would love to find women who seek sex as well (OLD helps with discovering these women ) but these women are quite rare. Most women will try to push for a relationship with you at some point. This is what I've experienced so far, even in different countries and cultures, the rule seems the same.

Men:

The problem I feel (that I have also encountered in dating) lies in communication and expectations. Ideal communication is about transparency and directness. But the problem is that if you're too direct in conveying you seek sex (from date 1), you might trigger ASD or basically come across as being a creep to them. Imagine a guy just saying "I think you are attractive and I want to **** you" at a coffee date. This may work but in most cases will seem like psychopathic behavior to most women. We are taught there is decorum and social etiquette. Most of the literature here on SS has taught us to be more tact and perhaps refined in how we convey our desires to women. I would interpret it not as dishonesty but just be more a gentleman in the approach to what we seek. Yet often our subtle approach may create hope in women that they might have a chance of relationship with us. Of course much of this hope may be self induced by the women, mostly spurred from their interpretations of us and our actions. What happens in the end is women may get hurt or disappointed even though we have not actively misled them to think they had a chance of having a relationship with us. We may even be overt when the relationship talk comes up but some women may not even bring it up until having slept with us many times, months or even years down the line. The missed expectations they experience is the same regardless.

Women:

Yet women have this problem too, if they too overtly convey that they want to tie us down to be in their committed relationship, they will in most cases scare us away and just seem too intense. When I meet women who are like this from the outset, I honestly feel terrified because it just feels like I am being hunted. They are like some silent hunter trying to entrap me in some snare. Most women know this too. Coming across too direct at the outset about what they want is a recipe for disaster (especially with high SMV guys). They are afraid we might cut them off because of this. They even have forums about the tactics and skills they should use to be more tact and refined in their approach, I suppose you can consider them, the female equivalents of SS. That's why women play so many annoying games. So most women today have learnt to be more indirect with what they expect. Again against the concept of direct communication. They may sleep with you. Go along for the ride. But all along they may have been hoping or working to slowly push you into a relationship with them. Of course this can be really annoying to a lot of men. I've had instances where I had FWB relationships that I thought were going well, we had an understanding, only to have to deal with their emotional drama or their talk of where this is all going. Some of these FWBs have made me feel very disappointed because I was so happy with how things were. Sometimes I honestly felt misled when they told me that they had only had sex with me thinking that I will be their BF at some point. In a way, it made everything more transactional and agenda driven.

Players, Scorned Women & Cancel Culture

Girls may even play this mismatch of expectations and communication into a narrative where you misled or played them even though you have never intentionally or actively misled them. Today's modern culture likes to typecast men as being the perpetrators of disappointing modern relationships and dating but I think it's really unjustified.

Is Dating Rigged Because Of Our Differences?

My point is dating is rigged. Men and women are so different. There are a lot of different expectations and intentions coming from both genders (much of it perhaps from culture or even biology). It seems often one thing (sex/relationship) is sought at the opposite end of the other. (Ofcourse if you meet a woman that you want a relationship with who provides a steady stream of sex that's great!) And because of the gender differences and intentional differences, we are often just disappointed, misled or just experience misunderstandings. I don't necessarily see it as anybody's fault, it's just the overall picture that we find ourselves in.

What are your thoughts on this?
 
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My thoughts?
It's been often said that women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationship.
When you live in abundance, they will drop the gatekeeper act. Women can only act as 'gatekeepers of sex' when you hand them that power. If they know that you can have sex anytime you want, they lose that power and they will have to show you another way to keep your interest.

This is supposed to be a game, but nobody knows how to play and everyone is hyper-focused on the 'rules'.
 

pipeman84

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It's been often said that women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationship.
By deciding when sex happens, women are also gatekeepers of relationship. In other words, relationship orientated women won't have sex until the guy is vetted and they're in a relationship.
Generally from the standpoint of pure intentions, women seek relationship from men and men seek sex from women.
That makes it sound as if women don't seek/enjoy sex and only see it as a cost of being in a relationship. I don't think that's true, though practically by the choices they make (either by being pump&dump or in a relationship where they aren't a good match for each other) many women turn something which could be very enjoyable into a chore.

I think people being authentic is the most direct and simple way to find what they're looking for.
 

Crown

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My thoughts?

When you live in abundance, they will drop the gatekeeper act. Women can only act as 'gatekeepers of sex' when you hand them that power. If they know that you can have sex anytime you want, they lose that power and they will have to show you another way to keep your interest.

This is supposed to be a game, but nobody knows how to play and everyone is hyper-focused on the 'rules'.
I believe this rhetoric of abundance only applies if women find you very attractive. Like there's no point for a women to care about your "abundance" mindset If she doesn't care you exist. You don't give the power of gatekeeping to a women, its her hormones and biochemistry who do that.
 

Crown

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Hi DJs,


I've been thinking about this lately:

It's been often said that women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationship.

Generally from the standpoint of pure intentions, women seek relationship from men and men seek sex from women. Of course there are exceptions to this. Regardless I found this to be very true in my experience.

But these are at odds with one another because sex does not necessitate a relationship and where possible and acceptable most men will seek sex with multiple attractive women which is beyond the bounds of most conventional relationships that women expect. For women, the relationship they seek tends to revolve around commitment and dedication from the men they seek it from. In most cases, it does not necessitate sex. There are people who are married or together in LTRs that are sexless. And even if sex is involved, it necessitates commitment, sex with them and only them.

Therefore, men and women are fundamentally at odds with one another.

Ideally, we men (who seek sex) would love to find women who seek sex as well (OLD helps with discovering these women ) but these women are quite rare. Most women will try to push for a relationship with you at some point. This is what I've experienced so far, even in different countries and cultures, the rule seems the same.

Men:

The problem I feel (that I have also encountered in dating) lies in communication and expectations. Ideal communication is about transparency and directness. But the problem is that if you're too direct in conveying you seek sex (from date 1), you might trigger ASD or basically come across as being a creep to them. Imagine a guy just saying "I think you are attractive and I want to **** you" at a coffee date. This may work but in most cases will seem like psychopathic behavior to most women. We are taught there is decorum and social etiquette. Most of the literature here on SS has taught us to be more tact and perhaps refined in how we convey our desires to women. I would interpret it not as dishonesty but just be more a gentleman in the approach to what we seek. Yet often our subtle approach may create hope in women that they might have a chance of relationship with us. Of course much of this hope may be self induced by the women, mostly spurred from their interpretations of us and our actions. What happens in the end is women may get hurt or disappointed even though we have not actively misled them to think they had a chance of having a relationship with us. We may even be overt when the relationship talk comes up but some women may not even bring it up until having slept with us many times, months or even years down the line. The missed expectations they experience is the same regardless.

Women:

Yet women have this problem too, if they too overtly convey that they want to tie us down to be in their committed relationship, they will in most cases scare us away and just seem too intense. When I meet women who are like this from the outset, I honestly feel terrified because it just feels like I am being hunted. They are like some silent hunter trying to entrap me in some snare. Most women know this too. Coming across too direct at the outset about what they want is a recipe for disaster (especially with high SMV guys). They are afraid we might cut them off because of this. They even have forums about the tactics and skills they should use to be more tact and refined in their approach, I suppose you can consider them, the female equivalents of SS. That's why women play so many annoying games. So most women today have learnt to be more indirect with what they expect. Again against the concept of direct communication. They may sleep with you. Go along for the ride. But all along they may have been hoping or working to slowly push you into a relationship with them. Of course this can be really annoying to a lot of men. I've had instances where I had FWB relationships that I thought were going well, we had an understanding, only to have to deal with their emotional drama or their talk of where this is all going. Some of these FWBs have made me feel very disappointed because I was so happy with how things were. Sometimes I honestly felt misled when they told me that they had only had sex with me thinking that I will be their BF at some point. In a way, it made everything more transactional and agenda driven.

Players, Scorned Women & Cancel Culture

Girls may even play this mismatch of expectations and communication into a narrative where you misled or played them even though you have never intentionally or actively misled them. Today's modern culture likes to typecast men as being the perpetrators of disappointing modern relationships and dating but I think it's really unjustified.

Is Dating Rigged Because Of Our Differences?

My point is dating is rigged. Men and women are so different. There are a lot of different expectations and intentions coming from both genders (much of it perhaps from culture or even biology). It seems often one thing (sex/relationship) is sought at the opposite end of the other. (Ofcourse if you meet a woman that you want a relationship with who provides a steady stream of sex that's great!) And because of the gender differences and intentional differences, we are often just disappointed, misled or just experience misunderstandings. I don't necessarily see it as anybody's fault, it's just the overall picture that we find ourselves in.

What are your thoughts on this?
Well the biggest fantasy of most women is to civilize a savage or uncontrollable men. That's mainly why they get into relationships that are doomed from the start.
 
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I believe this rhetoric of abundance only applies if women find you very attractive.
Gosh, thanks, that is so unexpected, but I appreciate your compliments. Truly.

Like there's no point for a women to care about your "abundance" mindset If she doesn't care you exist.
Well, isn't that why you're here, grasshopper? To learn how to be attractive to women?

You don't give the power of gatekeeping to a women, its her hormones and biochemistry who do that.
You don't give her that power, no, but you can decide whether that power has a hold on you. Emotional self-control will render her 'power' powerless. A gatekeeper keeping a gate I have no desire to enter has no power over me.
 
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Well the biggest fantasy of most women is to civilize a savage or uncontrollable men. That's mainly why they get into relationships that are doomed from the start.
Of course, but from the 'uncontrollable' man's POV, that doom hangs over her head, not his. He already knows she will fail, but can enjoy the fruits of her attempts to bring him to heel.
 

Crown

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Gosh, thanks, that is so unexpected, but I appreciate your compliments. Truly.


Well, isn't that why you're here, grasshopper? To learn how to be attractive to women?


You don't give her that power, no, but you can decide whether that power has a hold on you. Emotional self-control will render her 'power' powerless. A gatekeeper keeping a gate I have no desire to enter has no power over me.
Very good question, I should be at the gym right now.

I believe you haven't been in a real relationship for a while that lasted. Maybe you should precise that this abundance mindset only works if you have multiple dates.
You're probably young (nothing bad about that), but perhaps you should take into account that not everyone wants to just walk away from relationships when they turn bad for a certain moment.
 

Crown

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Of course, but from the 'uncontrollable' man's POV, that doom hangs over her head, not his. He already knows she will fail, but can enjoy the fruits of her attempts to bring him to heel.
I don't see the difference between you and a feminist. You only care about your gender and your benefits.
 

BaronOfHair

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Hi DJs,


I've been thinking about this lately:

It's been often said that women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationship.

Generally from the standpoint of pure intentions, women seek relationship from men and men seek sex from women. Of course there are exceptions to this. Regardless I found this to be very true in my experience.

But these are at odds with one another because sex does not necessitate a relationship and where possible and acceptable most men will seek sex with multiple attractive women which is beyond the bounds of most conventional relationships that women expect. For women, the relationship they seek tends to revolve around commitment and dedication from the men they seek it from. In most cases, it does not necessitate sex. There are people who are married or together in LTRs that are sexless. And even if sex is involved, it necessitates commitment, sex with them and only them.

Therefore, men and women are fundamentally at odds with one another.

Ideally, we men (who seek sex) would love to find women who seek sex as well (OLD helps with discovering these women ) but these women are quite rare. Most women will try to push for a relationship with you at some point. This is what I've experienced so far, even in different countries and cultures, the rule seems the same.

Men:

The problem I feel (that I have also encountered in dating) lies in communication and expectations. Ideal communication is about transparency and directness. But the problem is that if you're too direct in conveying you seek sex (from date 1), you might trigger ASD or basically come across as being a creep to them. Imagine a guy just saying "I think you are attractive and I want to **** you" at a coffee date. This may work but in most cases will seem like psychopathic behavior to most women. We are taught there is decorum and social etiquette. Most of the literature here on SS has taught us to be more tact and perhaps refined in how we convey our desires to women. I would interpret it not as dishonesty but just be more a gentleman in the approach to what we seek. Yet often our subtle approach may create hope in women that they might have a chance of relationship with us. Of course much of this hope may be self induced by the women, mostly spurred from their interpretations of us and our actions. What happens in the end is women may get hurt or disappointed even though we have not actively misled them to think they had a chance of having a relationship with us. We may even be overt when the relationship talk comes up but some women may not even bring it up until having slept with us many times, months or even years down the line. The missed expectations they experience is the same regardless.

Women:

Yet women have this problem too, if they too overtly convey that they want to tie us down to be in their committed relationship, they will in most cases scare us away and just seem too intense. When I meet women who are like this from the outset, I honestly feel terrified because it just feels like I am being hunted. They are like some silent hunter trying to entrap me in some snare. Most women know this too. Coming across too direct at the outset about what they want is a recipe for disaster (especially with high SMV guys). They are afraid we might cut them off because of this. They even have forums about the tactics and skills they should use to be more tact and refined in their approach, I suppose you can consider them, the female equivalents of SS. That's why women play so many annoying games. So most women today have learnt to be more indirect with what they expect. Again against the concept of direct communication. They may sleep with you. Go along for the ride. But all along they may have been hoping or working to slowly push you into a relationship with them. Of course this can be really annoying to a lot of men. I've had instances where I had FWB relationships that I thought were going well, we had an understanding, only to have to deal with their emotional drama or their talk of where this is all going. Some of these FWBs have made me feel very disappointed because I was so happy with how things were. Sometimes I honestly felt misled when they told me that they had only had sex with me thinking that I will be their BF at some point. In a way, it made everything more transactional and agenda driven.

Players, Scorned Women & Cancel Culture

Girls may even play this mismatch of expectations and communication into a narrative where you misled or played them even though you have never intentionally or actively misled them. Today's modern culture likes to typecast men as being the perpetrators of disappointing modern relationships and dating but I think it's really unjustified.

Is Dating Rigged Because Of Our Differences?

My point is dating is rigged. Men and women are so different. There are a lot of different expectations and intentions coming from both genders (much of it perhaps from culture or even biology). It seems often one thing (sex/relationship) is sought at the opposite end of the other. (Ofcourse if you meet a woman that you want a relationship with who provides a steady stream of sex that's great!) And because of the gender differences and intentional differences, we are often just disappointed, misled or just experience misunderstandings. I don't necessarily see it as anybody's fault, it's just the overall picture that we find ourselves in.

What are your thoughts on this?
My 3 cents on all that:

Pseudo-academic rigamarole over which gender is "The Gatekeeper" vs which is "The Keymaster"*, and the bull sessions that sort of blarney inevitably leads us into, make this stuff APPEAR much more esoteric than it is

Each of us is a brand and a product, thus it's incumbent on a man to ask himself "What sort of consumers am I trying to attract and keep hooked? What are the potential costs and benefits of bringing this demographic into my life?" Answer those questions, BEFORE moving on to the nuts and bolts of how you bring in the sort of folks you want to associate with. Whether this is women, friends, or business associates we're talking about



*This silly debate isn't nearly as original as we're often lead to believe
 
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I believe you haven't been in a real relationship for a while that lasted. Maybe you should precise that this abundance mindset only works if you have multiple dates.
You're probably young (nothing bad about that), but perhaps you should take into account that not everyone wants to just walk away from relationships when they turn bad for a certain moment.
I don't see the difference between you and a feminist. You only care about your gender and your benefits.
And I believe you're making snap judgements. :cool:
 

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zekko

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Ideally, we men (who seek sex) would love to find women who seek sex as well (OLD helps with discovering these women ) but these women are quite rare.
I don't doubt that there's some truth to that, but for whatever reason all the LTRs I've had have always wanted sex. I hear about women in other relationships who say "I wish he'd just leave me alone (sexually)" though, so I know they're out there.
 

BadWatermelon

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As Rollo says, women want to play the game. They don't want to have you explain the game to them.
 
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I don't see the difference between you and a feminist. You only care about your gender and your benefits.
When you speak about feminism, are you talking first wave (I'm too young for that), second wave (my age) or third wave (your age)?

Not that I care very much, you clearly have a myopic view.
 

The Duke

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I just don't have these difficulties. I've never had a girl withhold sex from me because she needed some relationship committment. Be a guy that beats out 70% of the male population in all the areas that matter to women and she will want to have sex within the first 3 dates because she knows a man of value has options and isn't waiting around. It helps to be a seducer. Set the stage for sex to happen and it just simply happens.

Dating is rigged? Once I have them sitting next to me in person its fair game. Nothing rigged about it.

Have any of you ever sold something to someone? You have what they want, and they have what you want. Create some comfort, do a little tango, and next thing you know the deal is happening and everyone is happy.
 

Vanderdonck

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I don't see it as rigged. The POV of people on SS is that women will always push for relationships and that men are just seeking sex. That's slanted because most guys out hounding for NSA sex will invest less and the women will naturally try to chase and lock down. Reverse the genders and the same thing happens. Just human nature and men and women are not all that different.
 
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