The bluepill is making a great comeback...

[Opportunity]

Pina LDR

 

[BaronOfHair]

The Red Pill became a religion by '15 or so, and not surprisingly, it's bishops and cardinals on YT are now experiencing the same troubles the church has been having for centuries https://youtube.com/shorts/wtGK0gVNANk?si=qZorVeyHtTOIbI6j

Similalry, Red Pill Thought's primary function is to provide emotional comfort, rather than detailed instruction on getting further ahead in life, thus men are scoffing at it just as heartily as we reject church. Even though we could arguably benefit from him

 

[CornbreadFed]

On the contrary, the red and black pill are just becoming more integrated in to society. People like Nick Fuentes are gaining traction in today’s society. Back then, you were a fool to publicly admit that you lurked 4chan and mgtow/pill forums.

 

[BaronOfHair]

On the contrary, the red and black pill are just becoming more integrated in to society. People like Nick Fuentes are gaining traction in today’s society

That's got less to do with Pills of any kind, and more to do with folks like Fuentes providing their followers with a call to arms/a battle plan(Campaign for the dissolution of The US government and replacing it with Christian theocracy, dislodge America's nose from Israel's anus) + Them having a clearly defined brand(NF openly refers to himself as a reactionary who supports autocracy, Catholic monarchy, just war, the Crusades, and the Inquisition), unserious as it likely is, and repugnant as many-myself included-
may find most of what he proposes

By contrast: Go ask most self-described Red Pillers "Are you a dating coach, commentator, entertainer, mullah for what's essentially a New Religous Movement... What, exactly?", and you'll typically receive nothing more than a vacant stare, while crickets chirp somewhere in the background

Ask these same fellas: "What do you propose we do about as this sh-t we're allegedly unhappy with?", and the less than sorry excuse for a strategy they almost always offer is: "Don't marry, and spend the remainder of your days stocking shelves at Walmart part-time... Your sacrifice will cause The System to collapse, just maybe, in another CENTURY or so". They're encouraging men to be PASSIVE, all while bloviating on the virtues of masculinity, in other words

Large sections of The Manosphere are filling the void left by the(likely interminable) decline in church attendance among men... Fuentes and his ilk are essentially The Nation Of Islam

to most Red Pill Theologians: They put forth aCONQUERING mindset, whereas much of The Red Pill is a COPING mindset

 

[Sega Genesis]

Can you expand on this just a touch?

Hopefully @BeExcellent will return to answer but my thinking is some people have naturally mercurial (good word) personalities and natures and/or as BE said mood dysregulation and thus might typically incorporate a "push/pull" dynamic naturally NOT as a 'game', strategy or manipulation...

I can relate to this in a way and in my experience it can cause a whole lot of confusion and disharmony in LTRs IF their partner is insecure or unable to understand it or relate to it.

The key is balance. Mystery and uncertainty can be good but so is feeling emotionally safe. For both people!

Just my take....

@BeExcellent is this what you meant?

 

[zekko]

At my company, you aren't considered for any serious positions unless you have a wife and kids.

That seems like a strange requirement, I've never heard of that. I wonder what the rationale is? I suppose it's because if you have a family to support you are more likely to be serious about your career? It's an interesting contrast to back in the '50s, companies were reluctant to hire married women, because they didn't think they'd stick to the job.

 

[BeExcellent]

To further expound.....@Divorced w 3 and @Sega Genesis intermittent reinforcement is a well known mechanism to elicit a certain behavior.

So search away on the internet and you'll find many articles and studies about it.

As a practical matter in human interactions people are constantly (and often unwittingly) reinforcing behavioral patterns.

Think of this for example: A high school student struggles in chemistry and needs to study for a test. Student gets frustrated because studying is hard, decides to knock off and play a video game. Dad finds student playing video game. What should Dad do? How should Dad react?

If Dad yells and condemns student for playing video games he gives student the following message:

Student, you are an irresponsible loser! Stop games and study you idiot! This does not encourage student to undertake the more difficult task and discourages the desired behavior (study).

If Dad says to student Wow I get it you need to take a break from studying chemistry, but you can do it. If you want we can review material together, why don't you play another 20 minutes and I'll come go over the material with you....student gets the following message:

Student, I understand that you need a break from a hard class, but its important and I know you can do it. How can I help? This acknowledges student's situation and encourages the desired behavior (study),

The way individuals react to one another has a tremendous influence on the interaction. The first scenario is a control/rebel dynamic set up by Dad. The second is an understand/influence dynamic set up by Dad.

Which scenario gets the desired result (study)?

Which scenario creates resentment?

Which scenario escalates conflict?

Which scenario defuses conflict?

There are people who realize and understand how to consciously use interpersonal dynamics as a tool, there are people who know how to consciously weaponize interpersonal dynamics. Others are not conscious of how they create dynamics, but they create them nevertheless.

I have said here numerous times that I have a certain personal charisma or presence about me. I also am naturally aloof as a more introverted person (an extroverted introvert). Those are natural traits. As I have become more consciously aware of these traits I have become able to deploy them at will for desired aims (as tools). It can be called influence if used in a uplifting or benign way, it can be called manipulation if used in a take advantage way.

But self awareness is key to understanding interpersonal dynamics and how to influence or manipulate them.

And social awareness also aids in understanding how others may use interpersonal dynamics to influence or manipulate you.

You want a cookie. If you always get a cookie the outcome is predictable & overtime will get boring/taken for granted.

If you never get a cookie the reward is unattainable and you will stop trying.

If you sometimes get a cookie? Well. That will keep you seeking the reward, and at the same time will keep you engaged and interested in the possibility of the cookie; the idea of it, which the mind then focuses on and fantasizes about.

Who is it best to be in the scenario? Why, the cookie dispenser.....IF you feel like it.

That is where the mercurial personality naturally will create push/pull. Sometimes you feel like giving the cookie and sometimes you don't.....

But the desire for the cookie grows in the maybe scenario.

Does that make sense?

 

[Gamisch]

The Red Pill became a religion by '15 or so, and not surprisingly, it's bishops and cardinals on YT are now experiencing the same troubles the church has been having for centuries https://youtube.com/shorts/wtGK0gVNANk?si=qZorVeyHtTOIbI6j

Similalry, Red Pill Thought's primary function is to provide emotional comfort, rather than detailed instruction on getting further ahead in life, thus men are scoffing at it just as heartily as we reject church. Even though we could arguably benefit from him

On the contrary, the red and black pill are just becoming more integrated in to society. People like Nick Fuentes are gaining traction in today’s society. Back then, you were a fool to publicly admit that you lurked 4chan and mgtow/pill forums.

I really do think the pills are comparable to religion and especially the decline of religion.

Somewhere around the 70,s more and more people withdrew from church without fear of being shamed.

Same thing happened to the R and B pill; couple decades ago the black and red pillers were the exception ,I'd say no more than 20% of men. But nowadays it's more like 60% ( mixture of black.and redpill). Despite this, the blue pill is still the most common way to go.

Most older fathers will proudly tell you their son is " a standup bluepilled beta " by saying he is married and happy. It's not that honourable to say his son is redpill or blackpill and struggling with women ,don't trust them ect.

 

[Vanderdonck]

Anytime advice and data turn into dogma, it's bad. Red, blue, purple, black, whatever.

We saw it in the '10s with the big "game" blogs and now with a lot of podcast bros. Everything is a rule or a law or a commandment to these guys. Surprise, they started making money off of it and became more and more invested in it as "truth" instead of simply help.

What is forgotten is advice should be about what works best for the person asking it. Not what works best for everyone's emotional satisfaction or confirmation bias or giving someone her just desserts. We are all out there making decisions daily that hopefully align with our goals. That's why I never say never.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Somewhere around the 70,s more and more people withdrew from church without fear of being shamed

Happened before that https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/knowledge-of-men/the-feminization-of-christianity/

Quote: "It’s popularly believed that the disparity between men’s and women’s participation in the Christian faith began as a result of the feminist and countercultural movements of the 1960s. But this isn’t even close to correct. To find the origins of Christianity’s gender gap, you in fact have to go back not decades, but centuries. Maybe even close to a millennium

Whether or not the gender gap can be traced back that far, we know with a surety that it began at least as early as the 17th century in America. In fact, the gap seems to have arrived right along with the country’s Puritan settlers. The rolls of early New England churches show more female than male members, despite the fact that there were about 150 men to 100 women in the population overall.

How high was the imbalance in early American church membership? In 1692, famous Puritan minister Cotton Mather shared this firsthand observation on the state of things around the Massachusetts Bay Colony:

“There are far more Godly Women in in the World than Godly Men…I have seen it without going a Mile from home, That in a Church of Three or Four Hundred Communicants, there are but a few more than One Hundred Men, all the Rest are Women.”

Indeed, the story of the 1800s was much the same. In The Church Impotent, Podles cites data from the research of another historian:

“In his study of Congregationalism, Richard D. Shields states that 59 percent of all new members from 1730 to 1769 were women. The figures for southern churches were the same. In 1792, ‘southern women outnumbered southern men in the churches (65 to 35) though men outnumbered women in the general population (51.5 to 48.5)"

In the 19th century, the gender gap seems to have widened even further.

In 1899, New York-based minister Cortland Myers penned a piece entitled “Why Do Men Not Go to Church?” in which he observed that “Of the membership of the churches nearly three-fourths are women. Of the attendants in most places of worship nine-tenths are women. In one great church I counted two hundred women and ten men.” A survey conducted by The New York Times just a few years later confirmed Myers observation, finding that “69% of Manhattan worshippers were women.”

In a similarly themed piece written nine years previous, “Have We a Religion For Men?” Howard Allen Howard Allen Bridgman inquired into why he and his fellow clergymen’s message “falls upon so few masculine ears” and posed almost word-for-word the same questions we raised ourselves over a hundred years later in the introduction to this series:

“Is the genius of Christianity foreign to the masculine make-up? Have women always outnumbered and outweighed men in the church? Do other religions show a similar disproportion? If the predominance of women be an essentially modern feature of our faith, what causes operated to produce it?”

Bridgman reports the exact sex ratios that Myers did, observing that “three fourths of the Sabbath congregations and nine tenths of the mid-week assembly” were women. He further notes that according to the YMCA, “only one young man in twenty in this country is a church member, and that seventy-five out of every hundred never attend church..."

The gender gap persisted into the 20th century, with a survey conducted by the YMCA in 1910 finding that women made up 2/3 of church membership, and the bulk of those who participated and volunteered in congregations as well. By 1929, likely because of the efforts of the “muscular Christianity” movement, which we’ll discuss later in the series, the ratio had shrunk slightly to 59% women and 41% men.

The only time the sex ratio of church attendance was commensurate with the population at large was in the post-war period of the 1950s and 60s, when attending a mainline congregation became part of the fabric of suburban life for men and women alike. Thereafter it opened back up, and now sits at 61% women/39% men"

Given these facts, prospects of church attendance among men skyrocketing and then maintaining that same momentum long-term is less likely than anyone in The WNBA outside of Caitlin Clark becoming a household name anytime in the next century

We can anticipate MORE replacements for the church like The Red Pill emerging, then sputtering out of existence, just as quickly as they emerged

 

[BaronOfHair]

Anytime advice and data turn into dogma, it's bad. Red, blue, purple, black, whatever.

We saw it in the '10s with the big "game" blogs and now with a lot of podcast bros. Everything is a rule or a law or a commandment to these guys

In ONE SENSE, the state we've been from the mid-10s through today is worse.... For all of their flaws, those fellas you mention at least LOOKED like they had a shot at snagging so much as a solid 6, and prioritized touching gross over endlessly theorizing about things online. Anyone who wasn't offering sh-t tons of practical guidance didn't receive even a microsecond of airtime. By contrast, 98% of today's Red Pill Theology's Ayatollahs have either

-Been married since The 90s. And, if their unions are like MOST peoples, likely less admirable than The US Government's track record at overseas nation building

Or/and are

-Embodiments of every image that pops into our mind, when one hears the word "keyboard warrior". Which is to say, LESS "alpha" than Leslie Jones is anything approaching "a classy lady"

Yet their words have been mistaken for Holy Writ, by entirely too many men. An overabundance of 1/8th truths and outright lies are what's sabotaging us today, not a "lack of education"

 

[Travel memoir21]

Some great marriages are actually blue pilled because of several key contributing factors. They could be a faithful wife though she could be a HB5 or 6 at Best, faith or spirituality being prioritized in the marriage or relationship, delayed gratification and the discipline factor is there and both parties are responsible adults with a fun flair, there’s balance.

 

[Gamisch]

Some great marriages are actually blue pilled because of several key contributing factors. They could be a faithful wife though she could be a HB5 or 6 at Best, faith or spirituality being prioritized in the marriage or relationship, delayed gratification and the discipline factor is there and both parties are responsible adults with a fun flair, there’s balance.

100% wrong

You have no idea what's REALLY going on behind closed curtains. I also used to think like this, but all it is is the blue pill inside of you coping and saying that " there might be The One. ".

But simultaneously your post is best proof of what I say in the title: the bluepill ideology is so strongly ingrained that eventually men WILL make excuses to sat "it's okay to be bluepilled ".

Look, I'm not saying that there are no well functioning LTRs, but they are a dime a dozen rather than the norm. Look at just the stats...more than 60/ 65% of men get no play. That leaves 35 %. But that 35 percentile ALSO includes men who are in : open relationships, men who get or got cheated on, dead bedrooms, toxic relationships ect. That means approx 10 /15% of men experience a long lasting, healthy relationship that LASTS . I'm not talking about the honeymoon stage. We all meet women and float through the honeymoon stage the first 6 months to a year.

Most men TRY to pretend like they have this kinda relationship, but if you dig just a tad deeper you'll hear all kinds of off-putting bs.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Somewhere around the 70,s more and more people withdrew from church without fear of being shamed.

We need a comeback from institutionalized religion. In the US, decentralized uncontrolled evangelicalism has ruined Christianity’s reputation.

 

[DJ Novice]

The red pill is just understanding psychology and female psychology.

My take is that all romantic relationships are transactional and conditional. A relationship is the medium through which needs are exchanged.

Once people’s needs are no longer met (emotional, physical etc) the relationship will either end or become unsatisfying. For women more so than men, once a women no longer feels ‘happy’ in the relationship or you no longer spike her emotions it’s all over no matter what you do.

Love exists outside of relationships. Have children if you want to experience unconditional love.

Hedonic adaptation kills desire in most romantic relationships over time. People are lazy and self interested by nature and often effort in a relationship declines over time once both parties get what they want.

There is a price to be paid for being in a relationship from a male perspective in the form of financial investment, emotional effort, time and loss of autonomy. You are no longer able to live life on your own terms as some degree of compromise is always involved.

Often the price paid either increases over time or the benefits you derive from a relationship decrease over time which makes the benefit/cost assessment no longer viable in the long term.

For ne the red pill is not about hating women or avoiding relationships. It is about understanding the reality of female psychology and relationships and going into relationships with your eyes wide open to avoid disappointment.

 

[BaronOfHair]

But simultaneously your post is best proof of what I say in the title: the bluepill ideology is so strongly ingrained that eventually men WILL make excuses to sat "it's okay to be bluepilled ".

And this is true in many areas of life, beyond dating and mating... Ex. On some level, we all cling to the delusion that if we're physically assaulted in a public shopping center filled with fellow humans, someone will back us up, so we don't have to fight for our lives on our own

We continue to believe this, no matter how many RL examples of people being raped, maimed beyond recognition, and murdered while nearly a 100 bystanders watch on we see on the news, or read online

Perhaps this is a defense mechanism that, to some degree, protects our sanity: We'd likely be left catatonic, if we spent more than 5 minutes per day mulling over such hazards

 

[HaleyBaron]

Some men just don't have the balls to be RP. Going to BP just means they submitted against the pressure. Staying fit, social standards, they gave up against this. They'd be the same people who would hide behind the tribe leader when an invasion comes or a hunt is needed. Or even worse, the same men who would LET the invaders in or let the hunt get away cause they are afraid of responsibility and their masculinity. Effectively, all BP men are boys.

 

[Vanderdonck]

There is a price to be paid for being in a relationship from a male perspective in the form of financial investment, emotional effort, time and loss of autonomy. You are no longer able to live life on your own terms as some degree of compromise is always involved.

I'm in a relationship and yet I still retain autonomy and live life on my own terms. Anyone who's not true to himself will never be free.

 

[BaronOfHair]

When The Red Pill came to prominence in the mid-10s, delusions that it and it's Kool Aid drinkers were going to overturn The System were riding high, and nearly all Red Pill Theologians bloviated vaguely about an impending revolution. Goes without saying, none of that came anywhere close to fruition, and we're hard-pressed to name ONE Red Pill Ayatollah who can be so much as MISTAKEN by The Powers That Be for a formidable adversary

The only individuals who are, broadly speaking, Manosphere adjacent and feared by "The Establishment" are fellas such as

Ain't surprising that more and more men are tuning out Generic Red Pill messaging(Promotes coping, rather than conquering) in favor following them

 

[HaleyBaron]

When The Red Pill came to prominence in the mid-10s, delusions that it and it's Kool Aid drinkers were going to overturn The System were riding high, and nearly all Red Pill Theologians bloviated vaguely about an impending revolution. Goes without saying, none of that came anywhere close to fruition, and we're hard-pressed to name ONE Red Pill Ayatollah who can be so much as MISTAKEN by The Powers That Be for a formidable adversary

The only individuals who are, broadly speaking, Manosphere adjacent and feared by "The Establishment" are fellas such as

Ain't surprising that more and more men are tuning out Generic Red Pill messaging(Promotes coping, rather than conquering) in favor following them

It did make a difference. It was just more subtle. Men and boys are more informed of the dangers of marriage and women in general. Younger boys are fighting against being simps and even shaming others who simp. The one problem we had was that everyone who tried to say any of these things got shamed. Now it's open knowledge of what women have done and that only aids the manosphere. I benefited immensely from Roosh era, even if he went off the deep end. I cannot imagine where I would be if I did not have the well of information from men and players I met online. And the most important part is all their advice worked.