Microphone Fiend
Master Don Juan
yea, i think Jayer is gonna start the next one soonFoolsCause said:
"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
The Art of Seduction Book Study
- Thread starter Reyaj
- Start date
"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"
You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.
Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.
Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.
Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
Yes I do believe its time we moved on.
Just for the sake of the rules and process I'd like to have a majority vote. I'll assume thats the case but if anyone else isn't ready let us know. Majority wins anyway. I hope we get some of the other members that expressed interest in this study on board.
So if theres no objections (or not enough of them lol) lets all move on to Chapter 2!
Just for the sake of the rules and process I'd like to have a majority vote. I'll assume thats the case but if anyone else isn't ready let us know. Majority wins anyway. I hope we get some of the other members that expressed interest in this study on board.
So if theres no objections (or not enough of them lol) lets all move on to Chapter 2!
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
Well while everyone is reading the 2nd chapter getting eager to post I thought I would chime in on some of the recent feminist view points.
Flirt-O-Rama
"Coquettry is a fear based technique that can be used to get others to pursue you. Coquette actions, or lack of actions place you in the feminine role of the chased, forcing the opponent to take on the masculine role of the chaser if he or she really wants to be with you.(A masculine appearance and macho actions balance this to avoid making a feminine impression.)"
If masculinity ideally attracts feminity then why does everyone on here say you shouldn't chase a girl? I'm sorry but the majority of the DJ principles say to next girls or to not be so eager/aggressive when pursuing them because that builds their attraction. If anyone has been following my approach thread read my last example with a girl. I pursued and ultimately got a date but when I decided to hold back and stop being so eager I now no longer talk to her.
Television and books as media outlets always show the resilient man chasing a woman and eventually getting her. DJ Principles argue against this. My question to all is: What is a better fundamental approach? From my experiences I think you need a hybrid of both. I'll admit by me playing it cool in the past I have arisen the arousal of girls I was with but I think everyones ultimate goal as DJ is to seduce any woman you want. By nexting a girl or being too passive you won't be getting anything but your hand in a lot of cases.
"If a woman is inspired to chase, even stalk a man despite evidence that he does not like her, allowing him to do things she resents later, then she is insecure. A secure woman can approach or call a man she likes, but if he is not into her, she is able to let him go. A woman who never approaches out of fear of rejection is also insecure. A woman who never approaches because she is busy enough with the men approaching her is also secure. Secure people are not as easily driven by fear, that's in fact my personal litmus test of security and boundaries.. "
I agree.
"It is pretty similar for men, although a man can chase a bit more than a woman. I'm happy to go out with a man who calls until he reaches me, suggests a date and feels at ease. He may call between dates, but about half the phonecalls are to plan a date. He is good company on the date, picks up the bill and is funny. Now if a man is calling me each day before we even went on a date, that would give an insecure impression to me. If he is nervous on the date and radiates that he is entitled to something physical as he picks up the bill, moves in for a kiss at an inapropriate time that would further solidify that inpression.
Both men chase, the first out of desire, the second out of fear."
See that if you read my last example in my approach journal I may have given up too fast. This girl was used to me putting in more effort. Either way I think I made enough effort that if her IL was high she would have called me back or something. But again my point is if you next a girl you aren't doing her. period!
"Both Rake and Coquette get laid more than the other types, ceteris paribus. Rake because he attracts women out for sex and Coquette because he attracts easy women. There is a limit to the time a man can spend on women so low effort techniques sell well. Hence, these two sets of strategies appear most often in guides for men. Come to think of it, DJ Guide advices making a first impression as Rake, masculine, sexual appearance, initiatial pursuit, touching. Coquette is popular with beginners because it can be an egoboost to have the opposite sex chasing after you. Plus, insecure women are less likely to poke through the initially shallow veneer of self esteem, so he gets the chance to fake it till he makes it."
Lets hear some real world examples please. How does anyone attract anyone without some kind of social contact?
"There are men and women who learn The Art with other goals in mind, or a variety of goals. Learning new strategies and being able to play other roles enables you to seduce different types of targets.
Yup, I agree, and thats why i think you should at least give a quick read through for every chapter
Agreed, each type is equally useful, it all depends or your goals. If I was to seduce another woman into giving me a job, Siren would not be my choice."
The real key and what I'm trying to learn from this is the application of methods based on the analysis of the target. Lets say you meet a girl in the mall and you get her number and talk to her for a bit. What signs do you look for to see how she should be seduced? And then how do you adapt your character/game to do this? Real world examples please!
Foolscause
Great points. I agree in that both characters are opposites in many ways. I think the seduction approach depends on the target. The best thing to do is to figure out the best ways to figure out your target and then apply the right approach. If you have any real world examples please post.
Create Reality
I agree
Flirt-O-Rama
"Coquettry is a fear based technique that can be used to get others to pursue you. Coquette actions, or lack of actions place you in the feminine role of the chased, forcing the opponent to take on the masculine role of the chaser if he or she really wants to be with you.(A masculine appearance and macho actions balance this to avoid making a feminine impression.)"
If masculinity ideally attracts feminity then why does everyone on here say you shouldn't chase a girl? I'm sorry but the majority of the DJ principles say to next girls or to not be so eager/aggressive when pursuing them because that builds their attraction. If anyone has been following my approach thread read my last example with a girl. I pursued and ultimately got a date but when I decided to hold back and stop being so eager I now no longer talk to her.
Television and books as media outlets always show the resilient man chasing a woman and eventually getting her. DJ Principles argue against this. My question to all is: What is a better fundamental approach? From my experiences I think you need a hybrid of both. I'll admit by me playing it cool in the past I have arisen the arousal of girls I was with but I think everyones ultimate goal as DJ is to seduce any woman you want. By nexting a girl or being too passive you won't be getting anything but your hand in a lot of cases.
"If a woman is inspired to chase, even stalk a man despite evidence that he does not like her, allowing him to do things she resents later, then she is insecure. A secure woman can approach or call a man she likes, but if he is not into her, she is able to let him go. A woman who never approaches out of fear of rejection is also insecure. A woman who never approaches because she is busy enough with the men approaching her is also secure. Secure people are not as easily driven by fear, that's in fact my personal litmus test of security and boundaries.. "
I agree.
"It is pretty similar for men, although a man can chase a bit more than a woman. I'm happy to go out with a man who calls until he reaches me, suggests a date and feels at ease. He may call between dates, but about half the phonecalls are to plan a date. He is good company on the date, picks up the bill and is funny. Now if a man is calling me each day before we even went on a date, that would give an insecure impression to me. If he is nervous on the date and radiates that he is entitled to something physical as he picks up the bill, moves in for a kiss at an inapropriate time that would further solidify that inpression.
Both men chase, the first out of desire, the second out of fear."
See that if you read my last example in my approach journal I may have given up too fast. This girl was used to me putting in more effort. Either way I think I made enough effort that if her IL was high she would have called me back or something. But again my point is if you next a girl you aren't doing her. period!
"Both Rake and Coquette get laid more than the other types, ceteris paribus. Rake because he attracts women out for sex and Coquette because he attracts easy women. There is a limit to the time a man can spend on women so low effort techniques sell well. Hence, these two sets of strategies appear most often in guides for men. Come to think of it, DJ Guide advices making a first impression as Rake, masculine, sexual appearance, initiatial pursuit, touching. Coquette is popular with beginners because it can be an egoboost to have the opposite sex chasing after you. Plus, insecure women are less likely to poke through the initially shallow veneer of self esteem, so he gets the chance to fake it till he makes it."
Lets hear some real world examples please. How does anyone attract anyone without some kind of social contact?
"There are men and women who learn The Art with other goals in mind, or a variety of goals. Learning new strategies and being able to play other roles enables you to seduce different types of targets.
Yup, I agree, and thats why i think you should at least give a quick read through for every chapter
Agreed, each type is equally useful, it all depends or your goals. If I was to seduce another woman into giving me a job, Siren would not be my choice."
The real key and what I'm trying to learn from this is the application of methods based on the analysis of the target. Lets say you meet a girl in the mall and you get her number and talk to her for a bit. What signs do you look for to see how she should be seduced? And then how do you adapt your character/game to do this? Real world examples please!
Foolscause
Great points. I agree in that both characters are opposites in many ways. I think the seduction approach depends on the target. The best thing to do is to figure out the best ways to figure out your target and then apply the right approach. If you have any real world examples please post.
Create Reality
I agree
I think this is a great book I think I read it back in 2001 or 2002 and I read the rest of greens books anad have seen his podcast as well.The book the 48 laws has been mentioned on the show Studio 60.It works you just have to apply the principals 
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
e-lie read the 2nd chapter and lets hear your input.
I'll be posting mine soon!
I'll be posting mine soon!
"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."
Attraction runs on a clock.
She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.
The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."
One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.
Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
Anyone read the next chapter yet geez you lazy bums lol
Create Reality
Master Don Juan
im on the Charismatic. Rake was pretty simple to understand
BlackJackal
Master Don Juan
Wow, I didn't even know you guys started this thread until today...lol.
Since you guys are starting the 2nd chapter soon I guess I'll just throw in my quick 2 cents about the siren.
I've noticed that a few of the comments about siren in this discussion are based simply being cautious of the siren. Treat her as the enemy perse(sp), and write her off as an attractive woman who dresses nice and plays mind games. Thats a shallow way to look at a siren and imo, a woman doing those things do not make her a true siren. Seeing as any good looking woman can do those things.
A real life modern day example of a siren to me would be Mya, Halle Berry, Angelina Jolie. Not simply cause they're attractive, ( AOS even mentions that Cleopatra was not even as pretty as the other mistresses at the time) not because of there celebrity. It's all about the force of their character. The voice, confidence, how they carry themselves sexually without being to direct about it.
I also got the idea that based on the comments before, everyone's trying there best to not be seduced. If thats true then I have to ask, whats the fun in that?
Since you guys are starting the 2nd chapter soon I guess I'll just throw in my quick 2 cents about the siren.
I've noticed that a few of the comments about siren in this discussion are based simply being cautious of the siren. Treat her as the enemy perse(sp), and write her off as an attractive woman who dresses nice and plays mind games. Thats a shallow way to look at a siren and imo, a woman doing those things do not make her a true siren. Seeing as any good looking woman can do those things.
A real life modern day example of a siren to me would be Mya, Halle Berry, Angelina Jolie. Not simply cause they're attractive, ( AOS even mentions that Cleopatra was not even as pretty as the other mistresses at the time) not because of there celebrity. It's all about the force of their character. The voice, confidence, how they carry themselves sexually without being to direct about it.
I also got the idea that based on the comments before, everyone's trying there best to not be seduced. If thats true then I have to ask, whats the fun in that?
BlackJackal
Master Don Juan
FoolsCause said:
How about incorporating both methods. Conquetery is most effective after deep rapport has been established. Think of it as Ganji gaming. The rake can, and often does work on any kind of woman. Even when a woman knows full well about your rep with other women. Not just women out for sex. I've met and had sex with women that I knew full well wanted more from me. Even told them I wasn't the relationship type. But they dug my style, I still turned them on, and the rest is history.
Infact, actually meeting a woman who is just out for sex, you really cant count as seduction on your part. Thats more like the other way around, or mutal agreemant from the get go. Depending on whether she's passive/ aggressive.
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
BlackJackal great analysis. I'm glad you are on this thread especially since you seem like you have some real world tales to add to the discussion.
I'm going to add my 2 cents about the chapters shortly and then I think we should move in. Even if something is self explanatory like CreateReality says I think we owe it to the study to at least give it some attention.
I'm going to add my 2 cents about the chapters shortly and then I think we should move in. Even if something is self explanatory like CreateReality says I think we owe it to the study to at least give it some attention.
"She's Out of Your League"
You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.
Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.
She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.
Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.
most bases of coquetry is about push and pull. its about giving women pleasure and then withdraw it from them.being aloof or unemotional is only AFTER she wants you, only then can you peak curiousity, and insecurities.
how can you just be aloof or unemotional if she doesn't even notices you, or don't even want you?
i am surprised that the infos about coquetry in here is very off. again, the most basic principal of coquetry not only about sitting yourself in the "feminine" position and let women chase you. it is about heat and cold, alternating, and giving her something she want one second, and then stop giving it to tease her.
it is about delay satisfaction. being aloof and unemotional does not help anything, good or even bad if she doesn't notice you. or if you haven't peaked her interest in you.
if a girl that you barely know and not attracted to. is unemotional or could be very cold to you, and lets say she is very cold or unfriendly to you, do you care? no
but if she has peaked your interest, and just before she was "mean" to you, she was friendly, turning you on, and giving you what you want, all the sudden she is cold and distant, would you be more reactive toward that?
read the coquetry part of the book again, most of you would understand it much better.
how can you just be aloof or unemotional if she doesn't even notices you, or don't even want you?
i am surprised that the infos about coquetry in here is very off. again, the most basic principal of coquetry not only about sitting yourself in the "feminine" position and let women chase you. it is about heat and cold, alternating, and giving her something she want one second, and then stop giving it to tease her.
it is about delay satisfaction. being aloof and unemotional does not help anything, good or even bad if she doesn't notice you. or if you haven't peaked her interest in you.
if a girl that you barely know and not attracted to. is unemotional or could be very cold to you, and lets say she is very cold or unfriendly to you, do you care? no
but if she has peaked your interest, and just before she was "mean" to you, she was friendly, turning you on, and giving you what you want, all the sudden she is cold and distant, would you be more reactive toward that?
read the coquetry part of the book again, most of you would understand it much better.
BlackJackal
Master Don Juan
Thanks man. Would've been here sooner, but I can see it's a very slow thread. So I never saw on the front page.Jayer said:
okay...i have the book i think i might as well read it....thats the only way il know....
IM reading the book.....i FIrst ran in to the
siren- is a women or a girl that doesnt have to look amazing...but somehow she can have u turn heads either by the way she moves...the way she speaks and the way she expresses herself...
she almost never turns of that sexual part...Guys are a lure in cuz....thats like a fantasy we have....I met one once she was so good looking t0 bad i didnt have the skillz...
SOmething i noticed that somehow when she would sit next to me...rub my hands... rub my thighs and they way she speaked just gave me chillz all over...it was amazing...Then she would tease me by almost giving me a kiss..put her her index finger on to top of my mouth .....nd then give me a lil pop kiss...(i would be like ****...man)...
U dont find them that often cuz most girlz are not confident of who they are... cuz society has made them like thiz
sooooory..im late
IM reading the book.....i FIrst ran in to the
siren- is a women or a girl that doesnt have to look amazing...but somehow she can have u turn heads either by the way she moves...the way she speaks and the way she expresses herself...
she almost never turns of that sexual part...Guys are a lure in cuz....thats like a fantasy we have....I met one once she was so good looking t0 bad i didnt have the skillz...
SOmething i noticed that somehow when she would sit next to me...rub my hands... rub my thighs and they way she speaked just gave me chillz all over...it was amazing...Then she would tease me by almost giving me a kiss..put her her index finger on to top of my mouth .....nd then give me a lil pop kiss...(i would be like ****...man)...
U dont find them that often cuz most girlz are not confident of who they are... cuz society has made them like thiz
sooooory..im late
Last edited:
BlackJackal
Master Don Juan
Right lildevil. Like I mentioned earlier, a siren is a woman at her full potential. Majority of the women, even if there hot, are no where near confident in what they can do to turn a man on. Their attractive and look good enough to fvck, but at the same time they're just there.
A siren however, can literally rock your world. And you'll want her to.
A siren however, can literally rock your world. And you'll want her to.
"She's Out of Your League"
You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.
Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.
She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.
Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.
The Charmer....
The charmer is the man...WHO deflects the attention of who he is...lures a weak specimen....captivates women with his charm... In a subtle way shows that he is the man of that he is the man of her dreams..
He undertands the weakness of a women and uses it to his advantage...when women get attached to him they feel they depend on him...the charmer shows that he is interested not so much in her but who she is(her character)..he knows that getting her away from her problems and then amking her problems look more subtle and small stuff...Is the way to go..when he is in the room with a women.. they feel like they are with him the whiole world just disapears in to the background ...the only thing that can run through her mind is soulmate...even though a charmer does not show that his sexual right away..HIs "prescence says it all"..he knows theirs going to be a time and place for that..this is why he is so powerful..
I WOULDN'T BE suRprised if casanova OR DON JUAN used this Style
CHARMER
The charmer is the man...WHO deflects the attention of who he is...lures a weak specimen....captivates women with his charm... In a subtle way shows that he is the man of that he is the man of her dreams..
He undertands the weakness of a women and uses it to his advantage...when women get attached to him they feel they depend on him...the charmer shows that he is interested not so much in her but who she is(her character)..he knows that getting her away from her problems and then amking her problems look more subtle and small stuff...Is the way to go..when he is in the room with a women.. they feel like they are with him the whiole world just disapears in to the background ...the only thing that can run through her mind is soulmate...even though a charmer does not show that his sexual right away..HIs "prescence says it all"..he knows theirs going to be a time and place for that..this is why he is so powerful..
I WOULDN'T BE suRprised if casanova OR DON JUAN used this Style
Last edited:
BlackJackal
Master Don Juan
The Rake
When I first got this book, and read about the rake, it hit home, cause I knew it was talking about me. In fact was how I ended up here in 2003. I was literally look for more info about Don Juan and a link took me to this site. To be a rake like the book say's is to let go, and be at your most sexual state with a woman. Just like the siren does.
This is natural to me, where I cant help myself around a woman when I'm near her. Granted the woman is interested in the first place. And thats all it really took was them to be interested. Get them alone, and all you have to do is just let go, and they're like a deer staring at headlights.
When I first got this book, and read about the rake, it hit home, cause I knew it was talking about me. In fact was how I ended up here in 2003. I was literally look for more info about Don Juan and a link took me to this site. To be a rake like the book say's is to let go, and be at your most sexual state with a woman. Just like the siren does.
This is natural to me, where I cant help myself around a woman when I'm near her. Granted the woman is interested in the first place. And thats all it really took was them to be interested. Get them alone, and all you have to do is just let go, and they're like a deer staring at headlights.
Dandy...!!!
the first thing that comes in to mind when i hear the word Dandy is mystery...if youve ever seen mystery or the wayn that mystery dresses... a dandy is a person he creates a character that that is very appealing cuz he breaks the social norms.....if he were to go to a party and everyone was wearing black he would wear red becuse he doesn't want to fit in... so dont expect him to be wearing something simalar...expect him to wear something that gets attention ....
as its say in the book we conform to whats normal at the time... we are creatures who dont want to be dressed in a way that creates that kind of attention that a dandy might get...heck if they asked ME to we ar a ****ing oufit of mystery to uses I wouldn't use it not even if my life depended on it...SOME OF us dress to live..a dandy lives to dress...every single part of the way a dandy dresses is connected to his soul,spirit,and is conected to the object he wears...of cultivating the idea of beauty in their own persons is who he is...its the person and character that he createS his elusive and mysterious...A DANDIES way of being conects his outer to his inner personality and are both equali balanced they are both appealing thats why it might not work for some....
Mystery:....You can't pretend not to care.... you must actually not give a **** at all"
the first thing that comes in to mind when i hear the word Dandy is mystery...if youve ever seen mystery or the wayn that mystery dresses... a dandy is a person he creates a character that that is very appealing cuz he breaks the social norms.....if he were to go to a party and everyone was wearing black he would wear red becuse he doesn't want to fit in... so dont expect him to be wearing something simalar...expect him to wear something that gets attention ....
as its say in the book we conform to whats normal at the time... we are creatures who dont want to be dressed in a way that creates that kind of attention that a dandy might get...heck if they asked ME to we ar a ****ing oufit of mystery to uses I wouldn't use it not even if my life depended on it...SOME OF us dress to live..a dandy lives to dress...every single part of the way a dandy dresses is connected to his soul,spirit,and is conected to the object he wears...of cultivating the idea of beauty in their own persons is who he is...its the person and character that he createS his elusive and mysterious...A DANDIES way of being conects his outer to his inner personality and are both equali balanced they are both appealing thats why it might not work for some....
Mystery:....You can't pretend not to care.... you must actually not give a **** at all"
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
Half Step
You are 100 percent correct. I think we all lose sight of this with coquetry. We have to lure a woman's fascination with us first and then you can use this tactic.
lildevil
Interesting take on the charmer. I think the charmer is basically someone that just makes a woman feel good with sincere compliments. The problem I have is that the example that Green used in the book with Benjamin Disraeli doesn't exactly show how this style can get a woman into bed but more for just courting favors.
BlackJackal
Would you mind sharing a few examples of rake actions you have displayed with women? I'm going to assume you mean a lot of Kino?
lildevil
Your assessment of the dandy is agreed upon by me. Any real world experiences to back this up?
You are 100 percent correct. I think we all lose sight of this with coquetry. We have to lure a woman's fascination with us first and then you can use this tactic.
lildevil
Interesting take on the charmer. I think the charmer is basically someone that just makes a woman feel good with sincere compliments. The problem I have is that the example that Green used in the book with Benjamin Disraeli doesn't exactly show how this style can get a woman into bed but more for just courting favors.
BlackJackal
Would you mind sharing a few examples of rake actions you have displayed with women? I'm going to assume you mean a lot of Kino?
lildevil
Your assessment of the dandy is agreed upon by me. Any real world experiences to back this up?
"Stop Asking Your Friends What to Text Her"
Your buddy Dave has been single for three years and thinks "hey u up" is a valid strategy. Your other buddy Mike just got dumped and told you to "just be yourself."
You showed them her text. You asked them to decode the emoji. You drafted four responses and sent the screenshot to the group chat for a vote.
She's been waiting forty minutes.
Put the phone down. Stop crowdsourcing your love life. Type something that sounds like you. Hit send. Then go do literally anything else with your evening.