Supplement help needed

[GloriouslyInsane]

I decided to buy supps to enhance my progress but with so much info and whatnot on the net i have no idea when to take them.I bought so far:

-B-complex(with selenium)
-Vit c
-Zma
-MSM
-L-glutamine

And i intend to get protein and creatine/no in the near future.So far i have

-ZMA - Before bed
-C/B-COMPLEX post workout and after breakfast

what about the others? I intend to take glutamine on days i can't get enough protein or on cutting but what about msm? when do i take that?

 

[Quiksilver]

How long have you been working out for?

And, write down what you ate yesterday and the day before.

 

[Omen]

I decided to buy supps to enhance my progress but with so much info and whatnot on the net i have no idea when to take them.I bought so far:

-B-complex(with selenium)
-Vit c
-Zma
-MSM
-L-glutamine

And i intend to get protein and creatine/no in the near future.So far i have

-ZMA - Before bed
-C/B-COMPLEX post workout and after breakfast

what about the others? I intend to take glutamine on days i can't get enough protein or on cutting but what about msm? when do i take that?

See, this is where people like me cringe because SO MANY people like you do this. Now i'm not bashing, i'm just saying TONS of people will go out, get 10 different things, then go... WTF am I suppose to do with this stuff, and when and how much to take.

You SHOULD do your research before you buy. Its like buying a car or TV. You usually just dont go... Ok, give me that one. Not sure what it has, or does or any of that, but I heard to get it.

For instance, what is your reasoning for the C?

Second, why do you think that taking the glutamine replaces protein when you dont get enough?

Third, why the B-Complex, and is it B50 or B100?

Lastly do you take a multi?

Like I said, truth be told, to help you and protect you, you need to figure all of this stuff out. Asking questions is great, but it seems as if you are a little unsure of lots of things.

Also too, go ahead and answer Quicksilvers posts as well. Add your age in there for me too.

You may want to take out a few of what you bought later and swap a few things that will be more beneficial to your progress than a few of your items

 

[oakraiderz2]

If you dont get enough protein it would probably be wise to go buy some 100% whey instead of trying to substitute it with glutamine, which is an amino acid. I would say return all that stuff, figure out your goals, research products and then go buy supps.

 

[GloriouslyInsane]

Woah! Yeah im basically clueless,been working out for 3 months now.First im a student and my diet lacks most vitamins anw.Yeah i have multis,c is because i barely eat ANY fruits or veggies (uni student..).I got glutamine to help me with my studies not as a protein source(but i will take some more if like i said im cutting,i read it gets used as fuel really fast instead of other aminos).B-complex is b50.

Usually my diet consists of red meat/eggs/poultry/fish,for example yesterday i had eggs and bread,steak with fresh(green) onions and fried chicken,all homemade btw.Today i had hard boiled eggs,spare ribs with fresh tomatoes and green onions and some cod.I know my diet is craptastic but i can't do much about it.I'm 19yo btw.

Yeah i know im kinda lost but im trying to stock for the winter.My goal is endurance/functional strength atm and bulking in the winter.I've tried alot of routines but none worked, what i'm doing now is only practising the compound exercises (rows,squats,deads and bench) 5-9 range to failure.This really helped my overall strength but my body isn't much different than before.

Yeah im getting whey soon too,just wanted to finish off with all the "pill supps"because i got some sweet prices at a pharmacy of which the owner is a friend of mine.

 

[Quiksilver]

First im a student and my diet lacks most vitamins

Yeah i have multis,c is because i barely eat ANY fruits or veggies (uni student..

I know my diet is craptastic but i can't do much about it.

Those are terribly sad statements, my friend.

I'm a uni student as well, and those are piss-poor excuses for not eating well.

 

[Interceptor]

Sufficient protein is THE number one factor in getting results, provided that your workouts are excellently done.
Sadly, the number one complaint I see ALL THE TIME is "I work out! But I'm not getting any bigger! What gives??"
So they train chest and biceps every single damn day!
And then I ask them "How much protein are you getting?"
They say "Protein??What's that? Like steak??"
I ask "Do you eat protein?'
They say "No?"

:kick:

Get at least 1 gram of Protein per pound of body weight EVERY DAY.
Take a shake before working out, take one after. If you want more ooomph in your workout take something like NO Explode or NO Shotgun.
Take ZMA at night.
Take B Comples every day.
Take Vitamin C every day.
Take EFAs every day.
Take some BCAAS and Glutamine for optimum results , if you can afford them.'
Take a Multi every morning.
Drink about a gallon of water every day.
IF you're taking supps, take Milk Thistle every day to detoxify and help your liver.
Drink grapefruit juice and Cranberry juice. No other juices.
Use LowFat milk if you're not lactose intolerant.
Take L-Carnitine to maximize fat burning, mitochondria energy, and increase the uptake of testosterone, and it helps your heart as well.
Take Acetyl L Carnitine for Test maintenance and additional power output.
Choose Low Glycemic carbs for your carb ratios. No sugar, and no HFCS.
Do not avoid fats. Fats help your brain, connective tissue, and production Testosterone.

Good luck.

 

[Omen]

Here is what I am going to suggest you do. I am also going to suggest a few tweaks to some of the other posts.

First off, EAT. You need Fat, Carbs, and Protein. Interceptor said protein, and true, get the protein, BUT DO NOT FORGET the other two.

I'll tell you right now why people fail ULTIMATELY assuming the lifting is there. It is NOT protein alone, but ALL NUTRIENTS.

Take time to really understand the role of carbohydrates role as well as healthy fats role in the body. You can get anyone to spout off about protein, but you'd be surprised about the other two.

And this is what I would like to see more of on this forum. Not just protein talk to people, but the other two as well. Cause I can GUARANTEE that if you dont also focus on the other two, the protein will NOT be used to its fullest. This I promise.

This can also be part of the reason you think that the glutamine will replace aminos for fuel if you dont get enough protein. Protein is NOT the main source of fuel when you workout. When you do high intensity exercise, carbs are the PRIMARY fuel source for ATP production. Make sure your healthy fat intake is about 30% too. You'll understand this later when you research fat.

Now for training only 3 months, I suggest you take it easy on the supplements. Here is what I suggest, and you really dont need anymore at the time being.

1. EFA
2. Green Tea (the powder or capsules, not the drink)
3. Multi Vitamin (I suggest either Opti-Men by ON, or ADAM by NOW. I like the ADAM and is the only one I take)
4. If you choose to go with a supplement, creatine is the MOST proven supplement out there hands down. Talk to ANY exercise phys person or professor and they will agree. There are quite few forms, but you can test the plain stuff first, or go with CEE, or AKG creatine.

b-Vit... Toss them, you dont need them with your multi, promise, you'll just piss them out.
ZMA...May keep, if you want.
Vit C...No need to keep on it everyday. Your multi will cover you
BCAA dont worry about them.
Glutamine... You can keep it and it is fine, BUT i'm going to tell you that the studies on it on exercise and performance swing the other way for the bulk, as meaning it doesn't do quite what we think it does. Still in the study stages, and there are a handful that show it in the positive sense. In no way has it been tested nearly like creatine.
L-Carnitine... Is a good supplement and has lots of research behind it. Many forms of it are on the market. Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate, Glycine Propionyl-Carnitine, Taurine Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Carnitine Fumarate and base L-Carnitine. Your base is your cheapest and works good, you newest form and most recent one being studies with great results in a few areas is the Glycine Carnitine. (expensive though)

Drink your water, eat your fruits, and veggies, and get your sleep.

Your diet will NOT have to be craptastic if you want to succeed. If that is your only way of eating, you better take up something else because you CANT have that type of diet in this sport/lifestyle or however you want to term it. Just the way it is for optimal results. Learn to do it, and once you get it down it will be much easier. You may have to make meals in advanced, but some of us do it, and that's they way it is.

 

[Interceptor]

Choose Low Glycemic carbs for your carb ratios. No sugar, and no HFCS.
Do not avoid fats. Fats help your brain, connective tissue, and production Testosterone.

Here's something that I did not mention.
Protein is always of utmost importance.
Without protein, you WILL NOT build muscle.

But I forgot to mention that Carbs and Fats create an ANABOLIC ENVIRONMENT for the Protein to be used OPTIMALLY.
But for most noobs it's easier to just repeat the same ol' mantra: POUND THE PROTEIN!!!

 

[afc_recovering]

Omen

Can you elaborate? Believe me I'm not questioning you, I love the knowledge on supplements you've brought to the boards, I'd just like to hear more information. More specifically about 'the studies on it on exercise and performance swing the other way for bulk.' Do you simply mean the studies have been inconclusive, and the product may not do anything, or do you mean it could be detrimental to bulking?

Thanks

Glutamine... You can keep it and it is fine, BUT i'm going to tell you that the studies on it on exercise and performance swing the other way for the bulk, as meaning it doesn't do quite what we think it does. Still in the study stages, and there are a handful that show it in the positive sense.

 

[GloriouslyInsane]

Those are terribly sad statements, my friend.

I'm a uni student as well, and those are piss-poor excuses for not eating well.

Can you explain to me where you find the time? I have 5-12 hours of classes a day, add 1-2 hours of lifting 4 times a week,2 hours/day studying or working on projects and 1hr\day to ****/piss/eat (3) meals.And then add 8 hours of sleep.I need 15-25(heh) hours a day to manage 3 meals and all this without counting any social get togethers or whatnot.
Even 3 meals i don't eat every day and i miss breakfast couple times a month.

The only feasible way to get more food in my diet is with shakes or with missing 1-2 periods a day.Yeah i'm well aware of the importance of protein and that's why i almost eliminated all carbs from my diet so in the little time i have to sit down and eat i only eat meat.I manage to keep water around 3-4liters a day

Well if supps(pills),4 meals and 2 shakes is not good enough then simply i won't get the optimum results from my workout and there's nothing i can do about it.I do not want working out or eating for that matter to cut into my uni/social time.

 

[EFFORT]

Can you explain to me where you find the time? I have 5-12 hours of classes a day ARE THOSE REALLY HONEST NUMBERS FOR CLASS HOURS? 7-12HRS SEEMS PRETTY HIGH AND DAILY? YOU MUST HAVE DAYS WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE AS MANY CLASSES



, add 1-2 hours of lifting 4 times a week YOU CAN NOW REDUCE THAT TO 1HOUR 3 TIMES A WEEK

,2 hours/day studying or working on projects

WHY CAN'T YOU DOWN A SHAKE IN 10MIN DURING YOUR STUDYING OR PROJECT WORK?


and 1hr\day to ****/piss/eat (3) meals

THATS NOT TRUE, AND IF IT IS YOU NEED TO RECONSIDER YOUR SCHEUDLE, YOUR IN UNI MAN. AND YOU'LL ALSO BE EATING 6 MEALS A DAY, NOT 3

.And then add 8 hours of sleep.I need 15-25(heh) hours a day to manage 3 meals and all this without counting any social get togethers or whatnot.
Even 3 meals i don't eat every day and i miss breakfast couple times a month.

BREAKFAST= GET OUT OF BED, PUT WATER , WHEY AND GROUND OATS AND SHAKER BOTTLE, DRINK 5-10MIN OF TIME. AGAIN YOU'LL HAVE TO GET USE TO EATING 6SMALLER MEALS AND U CAN GRADUALLY INCREASE THEM ONCE YOU GET USE TO EATING 6TIMES A DAY

The only feasible way to get more food in my diet is with shakes or with missing 1-2 periods a day.

SHAKES WILL BE YOUR BEST FRIEND, DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU NEED TO MISS CLASS THOUGH? ALSO BUY A BIG BAG OF NUTS AND TAKE THAT WITH YOU EVERYWHERE

Yeah i'm well aware of the importance of protein and that's why i almost eliminated all carbs from my diet so in the little time i have to sit down and eat i only eat meat.I manage to keep water around 3-4liters a day

CONGRATS YOU JUST MADE OMENS POINT NOW, NOW WERE GOING TO HAVE TO START PREACHING HARDER ON CARBS AND FAT. YOU CAN'T ELIMINATE CARBS FROM YOUR DIET MAN.

Well if supps(pills),4 meals and 2 shakes is not good enough then simply i won't get the optimum results from my workout and there's nothing i can do about it.I do not want working out or eating for that matter to cut into my uni/social time.

MY ADVICE FOR YOU WOULD BE TO SAVE YOUR TIME AND JUST PLAY SOME SPORTS TO KEEP IN SHAPE, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR DOING AND DON'T HAVE THE CORRECT ATTITUDE TO MAKE ANY GOOD GAINS, SO SAVE YOURSELF THE TIME AND FRUSTRATION AND JUST ENJOY YOURSELF IN UNI. THEN WHEN THE CORRECT TIME COMES, YOU CAN DO RESEARCH AND GET INTO BUILDING YOUR BODY

CAPS

 

[Omen]

Omen

Can you elaborate? Believe me I'm not questioning you, I love the knowledge on supplements you've brought to the boards, I'd just like to hear more information. More specifically about 'the studies on it on exercise and performance swing the other way for bulk.' Do you simply mean the studies have been inconclusive, and the product may not do anything, or do you mean it could be detrimental to bulking?

Thanks

Glutamine... You can keep it and it is fine, BUT i'm going to tell you that the studies on it on exercise and performance swing the other way for the bulk, as meaning it doesn't do quite what we think it does. Still in the study stages, and there are a handful that show it in the positive sense.

Here is what I had posted a few pages back when talking about glutamine again. Most recent ones out there, and I can go back if needed.

The reason I say maybe on the glutamine is that there arent too many studies that support it on the positive side. More are the opposite.

One of the most recent...

Curr Sports Med Rep. 2007 Jul;6(4):265-8.Links
Glutamine: the nonessential amino acid for performance enhancement.
Phillips GC.

University of Iowa Children's Hospital, Iowa City, IA 52242, USA. [email protected]

Glutamine is a popular dietary supplement consumed for purported ergogenic benefits of increased strength, quicker recovery, decreased frequency of respiratory infections, and prevention of overtraining. From a biochemical standpoint, glutamine does play a physiologic role in each of these areas, but it remains only one of a host of factors involved. This review examines the effects of glutamine on exercise and demonstrates a lack of evidence for definitive positive ergogenic benefits as a result of glutamine supplementation.


Addition of glutamine to essential amino acids and carbohydrate does not enhance anabolism in young human males following exercise

Authors: Wilkinson, Sarah B.; Kim, Paul L.; Armstrong, David; Phillips, Stuart M.

Source: Applied Physiology, Nutrition, and Metabolism, Volume 31, Number 5, 1 October 2006 , pp. 518-529(12)

The addition of glutamine to a CHO + EAA beverage had no effect on post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis or muscle protein synthesis, but may suppress a rise in whole-body proteolysis during the later stages of recovery.

What I am saying is that there needs to be MORE studies done on glutamine, like has been on creatine. Then when we say... Oh look, 50 studies with exercise and glutamine show it does something over the 5 that doesn't. You go with the 50.

Right now you cant really do that, and it sucks.

Again we have to also state EXACTLY what reason it is we take something. I can take protein to increase my wang size, but it wont do that.

Now just cause one supplement may not be effective at one thing, doesn't mean it isn't effective in other areas of research.

 

[Interceptor]

Guys, you have to realize that a lot of studies on Glutamine's effects on the body were done by IV Glutamine.
That is, it was administered IntraVenously, not through powder, which gets destroyed by stomach acids, and is quickly utilized by the large intestine, not your muscles.
IMO, I wouldn't waste time or money on powder Glutamine.
For now...

Try looking up Glutamine Peptides if you're still hot on Glutamine.

 

[GloriouslyInsane]

CAPS

Thanks for the tips,and yes i do have 5-12 hours of class each day (exc. sat/sun) actually its 5 8 11 12 6 (last semester at least).

Attitude? First of all i think i gave the idea im skinny or something and i need 5k cals a day.I CAN fit 4 meals and 2-3 shakes in my diet.I've done some research lately(exercises and the whole weight*1.5 = cals..1-1.5 g/pound prot stuff) but i have no idea on supps cause i haven't taken any yet.

The 3 meals are from the cafeteria and just going there picking up the tray and eating it takes ~half an hour.During studying (which is 2 hours) is one extra meal.

Shakes between classes is the only way to stuff more nutrients.Except if i RUN back to the dorms (10 mins) prepare a meal, eat it and run back (the break between classes is 10 mins) or carry a kitchen with me.And that's why i say i'll have to miss periods.

As for the lifting..i have to take a bus (7 mins ride) to the closest bus stop which is ~8-10 mins of walking to the gym and the same route back.

I appreciate your help guys but if someone could tell me when to take what i bought now it would be all the help i need atm .

Even on my craptastic diet i put on 5-6lb of muscle in the last 3 months.

 

[Omen]

But I forgot to mention that Carbs and Fats create an ANABOLIC ENVIRONMENT for the Protein to be used OPTIMALLY.
But for most noobs it's easier to just repeat the same ol' mantra: POUND THE PROTEIN!!!

Dont ANYONE forget the first 2 sentences of that post.

 

[Omen]

Thanks for the tips,and yes i do have 5-12 hours of class each day (exc. sat/sun) actually its 5 8 11 12 6 (last semester at least).

Attitude? First of all i think i gave the idea im skinny or something and i need 5k cals a day.I CAN fit 4 meals and 2-3 shakes in my diet.I've done some research lately(exercises and the whole weight*1.5 = cals..1-1.5 g/pound prot stuff) but i have no idea on supps cause i haven't taken any yet.

The 3 meals are from the cafeteria and just going there picking up the tray and eating it takes ~half an hour.During studying (which is 2 hours) is one extra meal.

Shakes between classes is the only way to stuff more nutrients.Except if i RUN back to the dorms (10 mins) prepare a meal, eat it and run back (the break between classes is 10 mins) or carry a kitchen with me.And that's why i say i'll have to miss periods.

As for the lifting..i have to take a bus (7 mins ride) to the closest bus stop which is ~8-10 mins of walking to the gym and the same route back.

I appreciate your help guys but if someone could tell me when to take what i bought now it would be all the help i need atm .

Even on my craptastic diet i put on 5-6lb of muscle in the last 3 months.

I'm not sure I understand how you cram that many hours of school into the day, but that's just me. Unless you have a butt load of labs I dont see what classes you'd take to do that. And at that you'd have what.... 24+ credit hour semester? I find that hard to believe as full time is 12hrs, and MAX people usually do to keep sane is 15-18hrs. I've NEVER done that much ever.

Your no idea on supps wont matter if you cant get everything in order FIRST. Training, Diet, Sleep, Water, the whole nine yards. A "supplement" is something you supplement in your diet. It does NOT replace your diet, your training, etc etc. You could take 50 supplements, but if you dont have ther other 99% figured out, they do no good.

Then shakes it is. Shakes, nuts, craisins, chopped appled, dry oatmeal if you have too. Raisin bran, etc etc. MANY things you can take.

Brings me to the point of.... If you HAVE to take a cooler you have to take a cooler (small one) I had too one semester, but its what us DEDICATED people do.

Food.... On the days you dont have class, spend 1hr preparing food for the week, or at least a few days. Grill 8 chicken breasts, make 3C of rice, what ever.

I hate to say it, but this sport is not easy to do it correctly.

 

[EFFORT]

I hate to say it, but this sport is not easy to do it correctly.

Thats why i told him to just wait and get started when he has the correct dedication needed to do well. If that schedule is real i'm sure he'll be stressed out a lot too and we all know gains don't come when your stressed.

 

[Omen]

This is ture, they dont come when your all stressed. There is no doubt you can get SOMETHING achieved, but if your idea is to get a great physique, you wont be able to get one with the way you've talked. People always wonder how mine looks as good as it does. I BUST MY BUTT in every way, and its what I do, just like a pro sports player.

I AM DEDICATED to this sport because I choose to be and is what I like.

There are only a select few % wise to look really good and its for all of those reasons we talk about, and genetics too, but overall its DEDICATION.