"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"
You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.
She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.
Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.
Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.
Steroids???????????
- Thread starter BigDude22
- Start date
"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"
Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.
You've been "getting ready" for two years.
She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.
Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.
brucevangeorge
Banned
Hey, It's his balls that will be nonexistent. I think we should be encouraging. If he wants to take his genes out of the pool, we should be doing all we can to help.Dean said:HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
that **** will close you down within 3 days and shrink ya like a baby
harsh as fook stuff
Don't ya think?
Re:
:nono:
So wrong. Everyone I know of who's considered or done them, was wrong or did them wrong. Personally I never tried them, and may or may not. That said, MOST guys I know "considering" them, want them like a fat person wants a super pill to cut them up. I know genetics suck as much as dumping alcohol consumption @ college, but the reality is, steroids can't do for you, IF YOU CANNOT do for you.
Yes guys try them WAAAAY before they even have a base to work with.
Yes guys gain SOMETHING, but they don't know how to cycle off, so muscle goes to fact.
Why?
Because they never developed the RIGHT HABITS and STRENGTH/MUSCLE base from which to grow!
They go from super skinny, slightly muscular, or even fat, hoping amongst hopes to blow up to the adonis they envision, only to flounder and fall flat eventually. Why?
Because you can't remain on roids forever. Even the super chemical factory himself, Barry Bonds, laid of for a short-period, and even longer, and you can see how that's helped his career.
They're definately reserved for those who've put in the time at the table, on the weights, and made good progress. They're a SUPERsupplement, that's its. A bunch of notches ahead of regular supplements. For some, they can impact negatively any hormonal, emotional, or psychological problems existing, or any latent issues concerning heart, lungs, or cancer. Not that this is widespread, but it is something to consider when it pushes your body past its NATURAL point of growth.
Effectively, it aids recovery, increases intensity, and increase protein assimilation. You recover from the gift faster, so you lift more. You make muscle faster, so you grow more and get stronger, faster. But you also have to know the down cycle. If you're a person who hasn't taken the initiative and know them, and ARE ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT ROIDS ON SELF IMPROVEMENT/SEDUCTION boards, you ARE DEFINATELY not a candidate for them.
if you EVER want to consider them, get a few years of training under your belt with iron addict or Doggcrapp or some highly respected personal trainer. Start eating loads of protein (because you'll have to on roids), get your dead, squat, and bench higher. AND then, let's talk. Know more about lifting nutrition, and steroids than this health section combined. Then let's talk.
I had a friend doing them. He was skinny. They blew his muscle out at the capacity they were, and he could work out alot, but he never grew. He didn't get enough food. He barely slept. He partied too much. He paid $200, and he bought them from an accomplished lifter who taught him nothing. I credit the guy for going the gym, but he overworked his body and eventually strained his bicep, much like the dude on MTV on the Steroid show they did.
I knew he would do this, but he is skinny, despite his ability to attract hotties, and has loads of other jacked friends, so the pressure was on, and he believed steroids, not genetics would ultimately rule the day, even if nutrition sucked, and his workouts were too long and too frequent. That's the point, even on steroids, you can't train like Ronnie Coleman or Lee Priest, even they're genetics on roids are sick compared to the average joe on them. It's just that, they KNEW they could grow to monstrous sizes, without roids, so why not try?
The average guy needs to hit the iron, lift the big 3 + dips and a few others, eat a bunch, do guerilla cardio, and alter as they have to, either cutting or bulking, and worry about roids, once he adds 50lbs of muscle to his frame, or mroe.
A-Unit
:nono:
So wrong. Everyone I know of who's considered or done them, was wrong or did them wrong. Personally I never tried them, and may or may not. That said, MOST guys I know "considering" them, want them like a fat person wants a super pill to cut them up. I know genetics suck as much as dumping alcohol consumption @ college, but the reality is, steroids can't do for you, IF YOU CANNOT do for you.
Yes guys try them WAAAAY before they even have a base to work with.
Yes guys gain SOMETHING, but they don't know how to cycle off, so muscle goes to fact.
Why?
Because they never developed the RIGHT HABITS and STRENGTH/MUSCLE base from which to grow!
They go from super skinny, slightly muscular, or even fat, hoping amongst hopes to blow up to the adonis they envision, only to flounder and fall flat eventually. Why?
Because you can't remain on roids forever. Even the super chemical factory himself, Barry Bonds, laid of for a short-period, and even longer, and you can see how that's helped his career.
They're definately reserved for those who've put in the time at the table, on the weights, and made good progress. They're a SUPERsupplement, that's its. A bunch of notches ahead of regular supplements. For some, they can impact negatively any hormonal, emotional, or psychological problems existing, or any latent issues concerning heart, lungs, or cancer. Not that this is widespread, but it is something to consider when it pushes your body past its NATURAL point of growth.
Effectively, it aids recovery, increases intensity, and increase protein assimilation. You recover from the gift faster, so you lift more. You make muscle faster, so you grow more and get stronger, faster. But you also have to know the down cycle. If you're a person who hasn't taken the initiative and know them, and ARE ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT ROIDS ON SELF IMPROVEMENT/SEDUCTION boards, you ARE DEFINATELY not a candidate for them.
if you EVER want to consider them, get a few years of training under your belt with iron addict or Doggcrapp or some highly respected personal trainer. Start eating loads of protein (because you'll have to on roids), get your dead, squat, and bench higher. AND then, let's talk. Know more about lifting nutrition, and steroids than this health section combined. Then let's talk.
I had a friend doing them. He was skinny. They blew his muscle out at the capacity they were, and he could work out alot, but he never grew. He didn't get enough food. He barely slept. He partied too much. He paid $200, and he bought them from an accomplished lifter who taught him nothing. I credit the guy for going the gym, but he overworked his body and eventually strained his bicep, much like the dude on MTV on the Steroid show they did.
I knew he would do this, but he is skinny, despite his ability to attract hotties, and has loads of other jacked friends, so the pressure was on, and he believed steroids, not genetics would ultimately rule the day, even if nutrition sucked, and his workouts were too long and too frequent. That's the point, even on steroids, you can't train like Ronnie Coleman or Lee Priest, even they're genetics on roids are sick compared to the average joe on them. It's just that, they KNEW they could grow to monstrous sizes, without roids, so why not try?
The average guy needs to hit the iron, lift the big 3 + dips and a few others, eat a bunch, do guerilla cardio, and alter as they have to, either cutting or bulking, and worry about roids, once he adds 50lbs of muscle to his frame, or mroe.
A-Unit
SMASH.Nitro
New Member
Try a mixture of Dinabol and Deca. I do not know if I spelled Dinabol correctly. Deca has a longer name. But if you do some web searches you should find the right medical identifications. Dinabol is oral. You cycle up from 1 pill a day to about 3 or more over a 3 week period. Deca is an injectable. Don't be scared of an injectable. You just have to twist around and pop it in your hip. When you find a supplier he might have other suggestions. And believe me he will tell you how many CCs to take and the dosage amount. Dinabol helps you bulk up and Deca will thin the skin and make you lose some fat and make you more vascular. However, I think you need both because you need to build a lean mass while you are trying to get ripped. To get this stuff you have to talk to people at your GYM or with your workout buddies. Always buy from someone that you know has bought from the guy before. Do not try to hide the fact that you are doing it from your buddies. If they are having trouble getting the results they want they want to do it also and you can watch each others backs by checking out your sources. You cannot get anywhere without talking about it to live people. Do not try to find it on the internet. You do not want anything in writing. Make sure you get your needles from the dealer and the gauge of the needle has to be able to handle thick injectables.
They do work. Stay away from veternarian products. Stay away from HGH. Human Growth Hormone. It makes your bones and cartledge grow and will disfigure your face by making you look cromagnum. You only need to do this hard stuff if you are a professional athlete and the results will get you some increased income
I think its a good idea if you have had trouble filling out. I did it when I was in college about 20 years ago. I would stick with no more than 2 cycles. After that you have to get more and more powerful drugs to make that differnce you see in the first cycle. That is how it gets addictive. You will never ever get the results you get off your first cycle. So enjoy it and after that stick with working out and being in the best shape you can.
I know you have researched it but here are some key points to remember.
Steroids are like cosmetic surgery. It will boost the hell out of your self confidence almost instantly. However, afterwords you need to be able to maintain your own self-confidence. Also, don't ever just stop using with out cycling down. Your body will not produce as much testosterone as you need if you stop abruptly. Test is what makes us men and our emotions and strength and confidence are tied directly to it. Like I said its addictive and I have known people that could not stop and it was bad news. 2 cycles cannot hurt but your heart can grow enlarged. Alot of those bodybuilders develop problems. They are associated with over use of steroids no matter what they say. Like I said. I think its a good idea just don't get hooked. It creates a false self image in a very short time and you have to have it to feel good about yourself. You will know what I am talking about after your first cycle so I hope this posting will make an impression that you will fully understand then.
They do work. Stay away from veternarian products. Stay away from HGH. Human Growth Hormone. It makes your bones and cartledge grow and will disfigure your face by making you look cromagnum. You only need to do this hard stuff if you are a professional athlete and the results will get you some increased income
I think its a good idea if you have had trouble filling out. I did it when I was in college about 20 years ago. I would stick with no more than 2 cycles. After that you have to get more and more powerful drugs to make that differnce you see in the first cycle. That is how it gets addictive. You will never ever get the results you get off your first cycle. So enjoy it and after that stick with working out and being in the best shape you can.
I know you have researched it but here are some key points to remember.
Steroids are like cosmetic surgery. It will boost the hell out of your self confidence almost instantly. However, afterwords you need to be able to maintain your own self-confidence. Also, don't ever just stop using with out cycling down. Your body will not produce as much testosterone as you need if you stop abruptly. Test is what makes us men and our emotions and strength and confidence are tied directly to it. Like I said its addictive and I have known people that could not stop and it was bad news. 2 cycles cannot hurt but your heart can grow enlarged. Alot of those bodybuilders develop problems. They are associated with over use of steroids no matter what they say. Like I said. I think its a good idea just don't get hooked. It creates a false self image in a very short time and you have to have it to feel good about yourself. You will know what I am talking about after your first cycle so I hope this posting will make an impression that you will fully understand then.
"She's Out of Your League"
You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.
Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.
She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.
Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.
WOW the fin stir that I caused with this post. lol
Anyways.. Im just extrememly frustrated. I diet and work out hard for 2 months and see very little results. Dont get me wrong.. i see something..but not what I expected. I would keep about 2100 cals a day.. lean meats protein.. good fats etc. I basically followed the Abs Diet from Mens health. I had some cheat days.. but who doesnt.
I did bench press...Deadlifts..squats.. cardio...ab work outs....etc etc etc. I worked 3 sets of muscles a day and would give a 24 hour rest period. I would say I started out at like 187 15% bf.. and went to 180 and 12-13% bf. I figured with all the hard work I put in i would see better results.. just dissapointing I guess.
I saw someone mentioned 5X5 .. HIT? I think Abs diet implents HIT.. I read it somewhere. But basically.....
Im 180-182 12-13 and want to be 185-190 (more muscle) and 8-10%...
Realistically speaking.. what do I have to do and for how long to achieve this without killing myself. And Im guessing I should do the 5X5 or HIT.. or a combo of both?
I appreciate all your guys help
Anyways.. Im just extrememly frustrated. I diet and work out hard for 2 months and see very little results. Dont get me wrong.. i see something..but not what I expected. I would keep about 2100 cals a day.. lean meats protein.. good fats etc. I basically followed the Abs Diet from Mens health. I had some cheat days.. but who doesnt.
I did bench press...Deadlifts..squats.. cardio...ab work outs....etc etc etc. I worked 3 sets of muscles a day and would give a 24 hour rest period. I would say I started out at like 187 15% bf.. and went to 180 and 12-13% bf. I figured with all the hard work I put in i would see better results.. just dissapointing I guess.
I saw someone mentioned 5X5 .. HIT? I think Abs diet implents HIT.. I read it somewhere. But basically.....
Im 180-182 12-13 and want to be 185-190 (more muscle) and 8-10%...
Realistically speaking.. what do I have to do and for how long to achieve this without killing myself. And Im guessing I should do the 5X5 or HIT.. or a combo of both?
I appreciate all your guys help
MindOverMatter
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- May 21, 2004
- Messages
- 1,887
- Reaction score
- 12
you're stirring controversy because people think you're about to do something completly stupid and are trying to help you out so you don't waste your money and f*ck up your body. i've managed to go from 6'2 175 to 6'2 235 in about 4 years, and i've never touched that sh!t. you can do it naturally, but you need to work hard and developed a consistency mindset that will keep you going after u get used to it.
the problem is the fact you expect sh!t to happen after 2 months. newsflash, it will take at least 1 year to achieve results you can be proud of, and at least 6 years of consistent hard work to achieve your ultimate goal. if you ever want to go pro, you will need to go beyond those 6 years and make working out your job, your best friend, your girl, your family.
as for roids? you're gonna take them safely? you don't even know the different cycles you would take or how to do your post cycle treatment, and you're saying you can take them safely? i'll tell you what will happen.
you'll go buy your crappy impotent steroid stack, and i call them impotent because unless you know a reliable source to get them (i.e. not a guy one of your buddies knows), you will get the sh!tty mexican made stuff which will just mess up your body without giving you any real benefits.
secondly you will take them, and you will get sh!t results because if you don't have the eating / workout ethics to achieve results naturally, you wont have the skills to make the most use out of your stack.
also, you want to lose your flab and get a six pack. you WONT lose that flab with steroids, because unless you know how to create a cutting steroid stack, you will actually GAIN more flab on your stomach, as well as gyno on your pectorials. so in reality, you will gain minor size, but end up looking fat.
thirdly, about a month after your cycle is over, you will pretty much lose all your gains because you didn't have a consistent diet to begin with, and you crash and burned once the juice faucet got turned off. so now what you are left with is an even flabbier body, and same muscle mass you've had before.
congratulations, you just wasted a ton of money.
if you are serious about getting rid of that flab and developing a decent body, send me a PM and I'll start you off, otherwise take the roid talk to bodybuilding.com
the problem is the fact you expect sh!t to happen after 2 months. newsflash, it will take at least 1 year to achieve results you can be proud of, and at least 6 years of consistent hard work to achieve your ultimate goal. if you ever want to go pro, you will need to go beyond those 6 years and make working out your job, your best friend, your girl, your family.
as for roids? you're gonna take them safely? you don't even know the different cycles you would take or how to do your post cycle treatment, and you're saying you can take them safely? i'll tell you what will happen.
you'll go buy your crappy impotent steroid stack, and i call them impotent because unless you know a reliable source to get them (i.e. not a guy one of your buddies knows), you will get the sh!tty mexican made stuff which will just mess up your body without giving you any real benefits.
secondly you will take them, and you will get sh!t results because if you don't have the eating / workout ethics to achieve results naturally, you wont have the skills to make the most use out of your stack.
also, you want to lose your flab and get a six pack. you WONT lose that flab with steroids, because unless you know how to create a cutting steroid stack, you will actually GAIN more flab on your stomach, as well as gyno on your pectorials. so in reality, you will gain minor size, but end up looking fat.
thirdly, about a month after your cycle is over, you will pretty much lose all your gains because you didn't have a consistent diet to begin with, and you crash and burned once the juice faucet got turned off. so now what you are left with is an even flabbier body, and same muscle mass you've had before.
congratulations, you just wasted a ton of money.
if you are serious about getting rid of that flab and developing a decent body, send me a PM and I'll start you off, otherwise take the roid talk to bodybuilding.com
[S]alvatore
Master Don Juan
I disagree. Only in high doses has HGH made people's faces disfigured. And if you use it on it's own, results aren't very noticeable even if you are on for 2 months. You get amazing results when stacked with AAS, IGF-1 etc.SMASH.Nitro said:
Benefits:
New Muscle Cells
Mood Enhancement
Smoothing and improving the skin
Leanness, it is a potent fat burner
Joint and ligament strengthening
Side Effects:
Hypoglycemia- due to lowered insulin levels.
Aromeglia- (abnormal bone growth) GH does not cause it, but if you are predisposed to it, it will speed it up.
GH gut- if predisposed and taking large doses of GH
Carpel Tunnel Syndrome
Soreness in Joints
So as you can see, alot of side effects aren't directly caused by it. It will only speed it up, that is, if it's already going to happen to you.
steroidsrule
Don Juan
everyone shut up for gods sake.. were not gonna convince him to not use roids so might as well give him advice... get Testosterone Enanthate 500 m/g every week, inject into the upper right quadrant of your ass every monday and thursda. Do this for 12 weeks, then wait 2 days, take Clomid 300 mg 1 day, Clomid 150mg for 3 days, Clomid 50mg for 2 weeks. Take Nolvadex 20-25mg if you feel your nipples getting sore or itchy, and no matter what take Nolvadex with Clomid... good luck if you decide to do it but i would wait till your in your mid 20's to roid... and lift more than 2 weeks ffs.... thats embarrassing
edit... whoever wanted 5x5, 3x10, and HIT, pm me
edit... whoever wanted 5x5, 3x10, and HIT, pm me
"She Made Her Decision Before You Finished Your Sentence"
Three seconds. That's how long it took. Your shoes. Your posture. The way you held your drink. Whether you looked at the floor or looked at her.
She already filed you away. Interesting. Boring. Safe. Bold. Before you even opened your mouth.
Everything you say after that is just her confirming what she already decided.
So stop rehearsing lines. Fix the first three seconds. Stand tall. Look up. Smile like you mean it. Walk like you belong wherever you're standing.
The words come later. The impression comes first.
brucevangeorge
Banned
What if you got a total newbie who overdoses and does not do the reccomended cycles.Espi said:
What then?
RaWBLooD
Master Don Juan
a series of red flags came up as i read your post, and i didnt want to bold the entire thing so i used a series of techniques...
:nono: not enough research
not enough time:nono: no real reason to take something as extreme as gear
you havent done enough that you can do naturally.the list could go on but i think the parts of your post i highlighted explain everything.
I seriously hope you reconsider, as doing gear and not being commited, as your posts indicates will be the case, is not a good idea for either health or results.
If you're going to do steroids, you gotta do it right.
If you want to put on lots of mass then you might want some hardcore **** like Dianabol to kickstart the cycle with Testosterone Enanthate as the main bulker. At the same time you should be taking something like Nolvadex to stop any possible *****-tits/****-shrink etc. and some Clomid post-cycle to stimulate your balls' natural testosterone production again.
These are the level's that are recommended assuming you're going to do a cycle for about a month or so (most info taken from bodybuilding.com):
Dianabol
(kickstart fuel)
20-40mg per day (max)
~6 weeks maximum
Testosterone Enanthate
(cycle fuel)
250-1000mg per week
Nolvadex
Anti-Estrogen
(during/post cycle)
20-40mg per day
~throughout the cycle
Clomid
Natural testosterone stimulant
(post cycle)
50-100mg per day
~closing phase of cycle for 3 weeks
If you want to put on lots of mass then you might want some hardcore **** like Dianabol to kickstart the cycle with Testosterone Enanthate as the main bulker. At the same time you should be taking something like Nolvadex to stop any possible *****-tits/****-shrink etc. and some Clomid post-cycle to stimulate your balls' natural testosterone production again.
These are the level's that are recommended assuming you're going to do a cycle for about a month or so (most info taken from bodybuilding.com):
Dianabol
(kickstart fuel)
20-40mg per day (max)
~6 weeks maximum
Testosterone Enanthate
(cycle fuel)
250-1000mg per week
Nolvadex
Anti-Estrogen
(during/post cycle)
20-40mg per day
~throughout the cycle
Clomid
Natural testosterone stimulant
(post cycle)
50-100mg per day
~closing phase of cycle for 3 weeks
"I just moved here from Florida."
That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?
She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."
She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.
I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.
Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.
Espi said:
uh no i commenting on that steroid,it will shut you down hard and shrink your balls, if you knew anything about steroids you would know it stops you from producing testo and your balls shrink as there not needed any more,thats no myth.
that one steroid is known for its harshness in that area, do some research m8.
there is no way to stop your balls from shrinking,only using hgc after the cycle,but thats when the cycle has finished.
knowing what your doing will not stop you from shrinking.
S
steroidiculous
Guest
The long campaign to demonize and prohibit the use of anabolic steroids in sports—in the press, by the Congress, and by the offices of the leaders of sports—has been so strident and one-sided that a literate person would have little reason to suspect there is another side to the story.
But it is the business of ethics to present justifications for actions, and the claims that have been made for prohibiting the use of anabolic steroids by competent adults appear to be incoherent, disingenuous, hypocritical, and based on bad facts. Let’s look at the common claims.
1. Steroids result in unfair competition.
anabolic steroids clearly do enhance performance for many athletes, but there is no coherent argument to support the view that enhancing performance is unfair. If it were, we should ban coaching and training. Competition can be unfair if there is unequal access to such enhancements, but equal access can be achieved more predictably by deregulation than by prohibition. It is hypocritical for leaders in major league baseball to trumpet their concern about fair competition in a league that allows one team (the Yankees) to have a payroll 3 times larger than most of its competitors.
A particularly egregious example of this hypocrisy was the juxtaposition in the 1988 Olympics of Ben Johnson and Janet Evans. Johnson broke the world record for the 100-meter dash and not only had his gold medal taken away but became the permanent poster child for the immorality of steroids, which, though illegal, were available to virtually anyone who wanted them. Evans, after winning her medal in swimming, bragged about the key role of her greasy swimsuit, which the Americans had kept secret from their competitors, and went on a prolonged lecture tour as “America’s Sweetheart.”
2. Steroids are coercive:
if your opponents use them, you have to.”Coercion,” according to my dictionary, has to do with the use or threat of force, or the threat of depriving someone of something he or she is entitled to. No one in American sports is forced to use steroids. Nor is anyone entitled to be a professional athlete. It’s an opportunity, often involving high risks, which everyone is free to walk away from.
Nor is it the case that you have to use steroids to succeed at the highest level. In the first year that Major League Baseball required anonymous testing, solely to determine the incidence of steroid use as a guide to development of policy, fewer than 6 percent of the players had positive tests.
3. Steroids cause life-threatening harms.
Good ethics starts with good facts, and the claims on this point are, to understate the case, seriously overstated. Articles abound in the mass media on the life-threatening risks of anabolic steroids: cancer, heart disease, stroke, and so on. What is missing are peer-reviewed articles in scientific journals to support the claims. Quick: name an athlete who died, or was diagnosed, with steroid-related cancer, heart disease, or stroke. Cases are so hard to find that the prohibitionists have to make them up. So Lyle Alzado, the NFL all-star, is presented on the front page of the New York Times and the cover of Sports Illustrated because of an alleged steroid-related brain tumor. What is missing is a single article, or evidence, or even a quote from any authority on the topic to support any connection between steroids and Alzado’s tumor.
Of course, even if steroids did have these dire effects, it wouldn’t follow that a competent adult should be prohibited from assuming those risks in exchange for the possible benefits. We allow adults to do things that are far riskier than even the most extreme claims about steroids, such as race car driving, and even playing football. There are far more deaths reported from the sport itself than from steroids. Why are the paternalists not using these data to ban the sport? The claim by the leader of the National Hockey League that they test for steroids because they’re concerned about the health and safety of the players is, well, hysterical.
4. Steroids are unnatural, and undermine the essence of sport
This claim seems predicated on the notion that there is some essence of sports. Sports are games, invented by humans, with arbitrary rules that are constantly changing. Since the beginning of recorded history, athletes have used an infinite variety of unnatural assists to enhance performance, from springy shoes to greasy swimsuits, bamboo poles to better bats, and endless chemicals from carb-filled diets to Gatorade drinks. Should vaulting poles be banned because they undermine the essence of the high jump? Why is there not a ban on training in high altitudes, or sleeping in a hypobaric chamber, for the purpose of raising hemoglobin to unnatural levels?
5. Steroids undermine the integrity of records.
Of all the proposed punishments for Rafael Palmeiro, the Baltimore Oriole slugger who was reported to have tested positive for steroids shortly after he testified under oath to a Senate committee that he had never used them, the favorite seemed to be to abolish his home run records. The implicit concern is that Babe Ruth or Roger Maris is being unfairly deprived of his place in history. But steroids are only one of many reasons why the old records keep falling. The fences are shorter, the pitching mound is lower, the ball is reputedly livelier, the strike zone keeps changing, and so on. The left field fence in Jacobs Field is more than 100 feet closer than it was in Municipal Stadium when it opened in the 1930s, so let’s have some asterisks for home runs at “The Jake” and every other stadium with shortened fences.
6. Fans will lose interest.
It isn’t clear what the moral issue is here, other than the possible dishonesty of the claim. It’s pretty clear that the biggest draws in the sport over the past 10 years have been Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, and Mark McGwire, all suspected of steroid use and, in McGwire’s case, a confessed user of the now-banned androstenedione. Chicks and guys love the long ball, and the steroid era has been accompanied by record-setting attendance.
7. It’s bad role modeling for kids.
I’m against steroid use by children and favor harsh penalties for suppliers, but I’m more concerned about tobacco and alcohol use, which account for approximately 500 000 more deaths per year than steroids, most traceable to behaviors that begin in childhood. Baseball is presided over by the former owner of the Milwaukee Brewers, who play in Miller Park, where beer is consumed in prodigious quantities. President Bush and various senators are outraged at the message sent by steroid use, but have little or nothing to say about athletes arrested for drunk driving with little punishment from the leagues, or the larger number found guilty of sexual assault and battery. What message does that send to the kids? And battery is not confined to off-hours behavior. Professional hockey promotes illegal violence and infliction of injury, and it is taught in the junior leagues. Professional football glorifies hurting your opponents.
Steroids aren’t good for kids, but there’s something fishy going on when the number of articles and congressional hearings about protecting our children are inversely proportional to the seriousness of the problem.
STEROIDICULOUS.com is the authoritative source for information about anabolic steroids and performance-enhancing drugs. Learn about the history of steroids, how anabolic steroids work, how to use steroids for enhanced muscle size, strength and performance, how to prevent steroid side effects, how steroids are used in testosterone replacement therapy and reviews of steroid sources. The website advocates an intelligent and rational discussion of the medical and non-medical uses of steroids and performance-enhancing drugs.
But it is the business of ethics to present justifications for actions, and the claims that have been made for prohibiting the use of anabolic steroids by competent adults appear to be incoherent, disingenuous, hypocritical, and based on bad facts. Let’s look at the common claims.
1. Steroids result in unfair competition.
anabolic steroids clearly do enhance performance for many athletes, but there is no coherent argument to support the view that enhancing performance is unfair. If it were, we should ban coaching and training. Competition can be unfair if there is unequal access to such enhancements, but equal access can be achieved more predictably by deregulation than by prohibition. It is hypocritical for leaders in major league baseball to trumpet their concern about fair competition in a league that allows one team (the Yankees) to have a payroll 3 times larger than most of its competitors.
A particularly egregious example of this hypocrisy was the juxtaposition in the 1988 Olympics of Ben Johnson and Janet Evans. Johnson broke the world record for the 100-meter dash and not only had his gold medal taken away but became the permanent poster child for the immorality of steroids, which, though illegal, were available to virtually anyone who wanted them. Evans, after winning her medal in swimming, bragged about the key role of her greasy swimsuit, which the Americans had kept secret from their competitors, and went on a prolonged lecture tour as “America’s Sweetheart.”
2. Steroids are coercive:
if your opponents use them, you have to.”Coercion,” according to my dictionary, has to do with the use or threat of force, or the threat of depriving someone of something he or she is entitled to. No one in American sports is forced to use steroids. Nor is anyone entitled to be a professional athlete. It’s an opportunity, often involving high risks, which everyone is free to walk away from.
Nor is it the case that you have to use steroids to succeed at the highest level. In the first year that Major League Baseball required anonymous testing, solely to determine the incidence of steroid use as a guide to development of policy, fewer than 6 percent of the players had positive tests.
3. Steroids cause life-threatening harms.
Good ethics starts with good facts, and the claims on this point are, to understate the case, seriously overstated. Articles abound in the mass media on the life-threatening risks of anabolic steroids: cancer, heart disease, stroke, and so on. What is missing are peer-reviewed articles in scientific journals to support the claims. Quick: name an athlete who died, or was diagnosed, with steroid-related cancer, heart disease, or stroke. Cases are so hard to find that the prohibitionists have to make them up. So Lyle Alzado, the NFL all-star, is presented on the front page of the New York Times and the cover of Sports Illustrated because of an alleged steroid-related brain tumor. What is missing is a single article, or evidence, or even a quote from any authority on the topic to support any connection between steroids and Alzado’s tumor.
Of course, even if steroids did have these dire effects, it wouldn’t follow that a competent adult should be prohibited from assuming those risks in exchange for the possible benefits. We allow adults to do things that are far riskier than even the most extreme claims about steroids, such as race car driving, and even playing football. There are far more deaths reported from the sport itself than from steroids. Why are the paternalists not using these data to ban the sport? The claim by the leader of the National Hockey League that they test for steroids because they’re concerned about the health and safety of the players is, well, hysterical.
4. Steroids are unnatural, and undermine the essence of sport
This claim seems predicated on the notion that there is some essence of sports. Sports are games, invented by humans, with arbitrary rules that are constantly changing. Since the beginning of recorded history, athletes have used an infinite variety of unnatural assists to enhance performance, from springy shoes to greasy swimsuits, bamboo poles to better bats, and endless chemicals from carb-filled diets to Gatorade drinks. Should vaulting poles be banned because they undermine the essence of the high jump? Why is there not a ban on training in high altitudes, or sleeping in a hypobaric chamber, for the purpose of raising hemoglobin to unnatural levels?
5. Steroids undermine the integrity of records.
Of all the proposed punishments for Rafael Palmeiro, the Baltimore Oriole slugger who was reported to have tested positive for steroids shortly after he testified under oath to a Senate committee that he had never used them, the favorite seemed to be to abolish his home run records. The implicit concern is that Babe Ruth or Roger Maris is being unfairly deprived of his place in history. But steroids are only one of many reasons why the old records keep falling. The fences are shorter, the pitching mound is lower, the ball is reputedly livelier, the strike zone keeps changing, and so on. The left field fence in Jacobs Field is more than 100 feet closer than it was in Municipal Stadium when it opened in the 1930s, so let’s have some asterisks for home runs at “The Jake” and every other stadium with shortened fences.
6. Fans will lose interest.
It isn’t clear what the moral issue is here, other than the possible dishonesty of the claim. It’s pretty clear that the biggest draws in the sport over the past 10 years have been Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, and Mark McGwire, all suspected of steroid use and, in McGwire’s case, a confessed user of the now-banned androstenedione. Chicks and guys love the long ball, and the steroid era has been accompanied by record-setting attendance.
7. It’s bad role modeling for kids.
I’m against steroid use by children and favor harsh penalties for suppliers, but I’m more concerned about tobacco and alcohol use, which account for approximately 500 000 more deaths per year than steroids, most traceable to behaviors that begin in childhood. Baseball is presided over by the former owner of the Milwaukee Brewers, who play in Miller Park, where beer is consumed in prodigious quantities. President Bush and various senators are outraged at the message sent by steroid use, but have little or nothing to say about athletes arrested for drunk driving with little punishment from the leagues, or the larger number found guilty of sexual assault and battery. What message does that send to the kids? And battery is not confined to off-hours behavior. Professional hockey promotes illegal violence and infliction of injury, and it is taught in the junior leagues. Professional football glorifies hurting your opponents.
Steroids aren’t good for kids, but there’s something fishy going on when the number of articles and congressional hearings about protecting our children are inversely proportional to the seriousness of the problem.
STEROIDICULOUS.com is the authoritative source for information about anabolic steroids and performance-enhancing drugs. Learn about the history of steroids, how anabolic steroids work, how to use steroids for enhanced muscle size, strength and performance, how to prevent steroid side effects, how steroids are used in testosterone replacement therapy and reviews of steroid sources. The website advocates an intelligent and rational discussion of the medical and non-medical uses of steroids and performance-enhancing drugs.
geoffreydunn12
New Member
I was never a fan of steroid but you know whenever I've seen some magazines and saw those men who have this great abs and muscles I often wonder how they do that in a very short time. I was like oh that might be steroids, well oftentimes yes that improvement in a minimal time is because of the steroids. I cannot recommend anything and will never suggest to try it as I know they have some effects that might ruin your body in the long run.