Squats and Deadlifts: HOW do they produce overall growth?

[NickSCFC2000]

I've been training for 2 years now, 3 times a week, high protein diets.

In that time I've put on 1 and a half stones, not very good now is it.

My workouts consist of ...

Monday - Back (rows, pulldowns) and biceps (curls, hammer curls).

Wednesday - Chest (flat press, incline press, flies) and triceps (arm extentions) on a Wednesday.

Friday - Shoulders (press, raises) and legs (leg raises, leg press, hamstring curls).

My diet could be better but I think it's close to spot on. It's my training that seems to be the problem now. Every time I go onto a bodybuilding site I'm always told Squats and Deadlifts are the most important aspect to any workout.

How? Alot of people say these two exercises are also best for building chest and arm mass, how does that work?

I've done squats before and haven't had any results apart from a sore arse. Deadlifts seem to affect the lower back. So how does this result in getting a bigger chest and arms?

 

[Warboss Alex]

don't know how many lbs in a stone but in two years you should expect about 40-60lbs.

squats and deadlifts produce the biggest growth response (production of GH) in the body which translates to overall body growth.

 

[NickSCFC2000]

So this "Growth Hormone" can lead to quicker arm growth, even if during that time you've not trained your arms?

 

[Warboss Alex]

So this "Growth Hormone" can lead to quicker arm growth, even if during that time you've not trained your arms?

lemme put it this way.

I gained 2" on my arms (15" -> 17" I think) in my first year or so of training WITHOUT direct arm work. However I was squatting, deadlifting, pressing and rowing my arse off.

 

[Quagmire911]

So this "Growth Hormone" can lead to quicker arm growth, even if during that time you've not trained your arms?

40-60lbs is roughly 3-4 stone.

If you put that amount of weight on, your arms will be several inches larger regardless of the training.

Squatting and deadlifting are compounds exercises and are still training the arms. It just isn't "direct" isloation work but it still works the arms. If you're deadlift goes from 150lbsx5 to 450lbsx5 over 2 years coupled with 50lbs you will not be complaining. All this can be done without a single curl, but people insist. Of course isolation does have its place but beginners make the mistake of thinking that is where it's all at. The body grows as a unit, if the core/trunk which has most of the musculature in it grows, the branches (arms) will grow to.

Quagmire

 

[NickSCFC2000]

Would it be wise to throw my regime out of the window and do a ful body workout 3 days a week?

 

[Warboss Alex]

Would it be wise to throw my regime out of the window and do a ful body workout 3 days a week?

no, rather do a 3day squat-bench-deadlift-style routine.

 

[KarmaSutra]

3day squat-bench-deadlift-style routine.

Elaborate on this a bit Warboss. I'm looking to re-train myself and isolation exercises aren't working for me yet.

Is it best to use a Hammersmith style squat machine to keep good form or use a squat rack?

 

[Warboss Alex]

Squat rack if you please. Machine squats are just glorified leg presses.

Much like the routine in Where To Start, a sample squat/bench/dead routine would be along the lines of:

MON
Squats 2x5, 1x15-20
Posterior core 1-2 movements
Weighted Abs
Calves

WED
Bench 2-3 working sets
DB press of some sort 2x10
Shoulders
Triceps

FRI
Deadlifts 2-3 worksets
Rows and/or chins
Curls
Weighted Abs

It would be something along those lines, with volume and specific movements dependent on the individual - some people may add more volume, rear delts, grip work etc.

 

[bigshot]

The body grows as a unit, if the core/trunk which has most of the musculature in it grows, the branches (arms) will grow to.

Quagmire

Im lovin that analogy mate!

 

[eko]

Try Bill Starr's 5x5. Incorporates all the compounds - full body split 3x/week. Squats, deadlifts, bench, incline bench, rows, pullups/pulldowns, military press, and ab work.

But, once you get to a certain point, you should start doing some isolation movements. After I gained 30 pounds doing a lot of compounds, my biceps and shoulders were lacking. They came out really quick though once I added some barbell curls and lateral shoulder movements

http://www.bodybuilding.net/training-forum/dft-5x5-854.html

There are a lot of 3 day routines like this. I've moved onto a 4 day/week bodypart split now, and I've had good results from it, but it's very taxing.

 

[Quagmire911]

Im lovin that analogy mate!

I think I got it from A-unit

 

[BluEyes]

The trunk of this tree is huge.... How come its branches are tiny? Perhaps it should do some direct branch work to grow them.

http://lostworld.pair.com/trips/sequoia2006/DSCF0085.jpg

 

[Quagmire911]

The trunk of this tree is huge.... How come its branches are tiny? Perhaps it should do some direct branch work to grow them.

http://lostworld.pair.com/trips/sequoia2006/DSCF0085.jpg

Everything has a different structure. The principle remains though, if you halved the size of that tree the branches would be smaller

 

[mrRuckus]

The trunk of this tree is huge.... How come its branches are tiny? Perhaps it should do some direct branch work to grow them.

http://lostworld.pair.com/trips/sequoia2006/DSCF0085.jpg

One counterexample does not disprove a trend.

 

[NickSCFC2000]

That tree's fat

 

[Master Bates]

Would your arms grow more if, say, you did a set of bicep curls inbetween your deadlift/squat sets? Or some curls after you finish your deadlifts/squats?

 

[NickSCFC2000]

Considering doing this...http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hitworkout.htm

Squats 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Leg Extensions 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Leg Curls 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Dumbbell Pullovers 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Barbell Overhead Shoulder Press 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Seated Rows 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Bench Press 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Barbell Bicep Curls 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Tricep Extensions 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Weighted Pullups 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Weighted Dips 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Standing Calf Raises 1 X 8 - 12 reps
Abs - 1 X 10 - 15 reps

Surely there is no way you can do that in 45 minutes!

 

[Quagmire911]

Considering doing this...http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hitworkout.htm

Squats 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Leg Extensions 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Leg Curls 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Dumbbell Pullovers 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Barbell Overhead Shoulder Press 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Seated Rows 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Bench Press 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Barbell Bicep Curls 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Tricep Extensions 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Weighted Pullups 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Weighted Dips 1 X 8 - 10 reps
Standing Calf Raises 1 X 8 - 12 reps
Abs - 1 X 10 - 15 reps

Surely there is no way you can do that in 45 minutes!

There are better options.

 

[NickSCFC2000]

I don't get what the 1x8 means. Is that 8 sets of 10 reps? No way that could be done in 45 minutes, must mean something else but I'm clueless what.