DinoCassanova
Senior Don Juan
I was browsing through a Borders today and came upon a little book in the Sociology section called , "Are Italians White?" Being a native-born Italian myself (immigrated here to the States when I was young) my interest was naturally piqued. Thumbing through it, page by page, over in the cafe area, I was reading about the history of Italian immigrants and immigration in this country, and I learned some things I did not really know (or really ever bother to think of for that matter) before.
I knew that many of the "first and second waves" of immigrants from Italy, and particularly "southern" Italy (which is where the region I'm from is located) , were distinctly unwelcome in the US, in general, upon arrival. This was inflamed by certain notorious cases, such as Sacco and Vanzetti, two Italian-born "anarchists" who immigrated here and then ended up (allegedly) jacking a "paymaster and his guard" for a little over 15 G's and killing the both of them in the process. This case took place in a town called Braintree, Massachusetts. They executed them for it. It was a very big and important sensational case and trial in its time (around 1920). Needless to say it did nothing to help the image of the new Italian immigrants in the eyes of the (predominantly WASP'ish) Massachusetts area and the northeastern seaboard in general. They were viewed, said the book I was reading, as "violent Latins" , a wave of "Latin immigration" bringing with it an alien culture , language, and foreign religious and political beliefs. Strangely the first thing that struck me was how similar that sounds to the way many people on the political Right-wing today view the waves of Hispanic immigration (whether it be illegal or legal). It's kind of like , in a way, the Italians were the Hispanics of the time, so to speak, from the 20's through, say, the 50's. They were viewed as not wanting to "assimilate", speaking their own foreign languages and dialects, being more loyal to their homeland, good only for hard labour, and just here to make money and send it back to family "over there", as well as being (as Sacco and Vanzetti "proved") "ill-tempered", potentially violent, and criminally inclined. The book said that immigrants at Ellis Island and elsewhere were looked over by the American customs officials and found to be "not black, clearly, but not really white either." Somehow, that summary by those customs officials seemed to somehow seep into the general popular thinking of the time. This fits in with what my uncle (who had come here before us) was once telling me that , even in the 1960's, when paperwork had to be filled out which had a section for "race/ethnicity" , it used to be "White", "Negro", "Latino/Italian" and then "Other".
So anyway in this book it went on to discuss the many ways in which some of the people here, especially in the southern states much more so than the big northern cities, looked upon Italians, "southern" Italians especially, as racially and culturally inferior. And it was of course complete with testimonies from old Italian-Americans who still recall the days when they were regularly publicly called "greaseballs, W.O.P.'s, dago n!99ers, etc etc". As well as something which really surprised me, which I definitely had not heard of before, that the KuKluxKlan actually lynched at least 12 Italian immigrants in southern states (the last one having occurred in New Orleans, LA). They said that "KKK" stands for, or used to stand for, or whatever - I guess it's still active - "K00ns, K!kes, and Katholics".
So anyway, I was interested in getting some other peoples' opinions on what their "racial perception", so to speak, is of Italians and other southern Mediterranean ethnicities (ex., Spaniards, Portuguese, Jews, Greeks). Mainly I was interested in how people who identify today as members of minority groups themselves tend to view such ethnicities. I know there are always alot of old "jokes", etc, (about Italians in particular) being like , ancestrally, "part black" ( I heard them when I was younger a few times, directed at me by high school acquaintances, when I'd play the rap music I like in my car ). And that that accounts for why Italian guys (or some of us at least) bump "black music" like rap, wear gold chains, "do-rags", etc., and hook our cars up with rims and systems, you know the whole typical stereotypical bit. I know that in certain areas of NYC, in particular, blacks and Italians have not always gotten along to say the least, likewise with Jews and blacks. But in this book I was checking out today they were addressing that fact by putting forth the theory that one of the possible reasons for some of those ignorant Italian kids' racism (in places like Bensonhurst or wherever) was because they knew inside that they were considered as "not much different" than those they were fighting with, and so they were sort of trying extra hard, if you will, to prove that they were/are truly separate. Just some sociologists' theories. But who knows, sounded interesting. And I just wanted to see if anyone around here had any (honest and serious only, hopefully) opinions on it. Thanks. ~Dino
I knew that many of the "first and second waves" of immigrants from Italy, and particularly "southern" Italy (which is where the region I'm from is located) , were distinctly unwelcome in the US, in general, upon arrival. This was inflamed by certain notorious cases, such as Sacco and Vanzetti, two Italian-born "anarchists" who immigrated here and then ended up (allegedly) jacking a "paymaster and his guard" for a little over 15 G's and killing the both of them in the process. This case took place in a town called Braintree, Massachusetts. They executed them for it. It was a very big and important sensational case and trial in its time (around 1920). Needless to say it did nothing to help the image of the new Italian immigrants in the eyes of the (predominantly WASP'ish) Massachusetts area and the northeastern seaboard in general. They were viewed, said the book I was reading, as "violent Latins" , a wave of "Latin immigration" bringing with it an alien culture , language, and foreign religious and political beliefs. Strangely the first thing that struck me was how similar that sounds to the way many people on the political Right-wing today view the waves of Hispanic immigration (whether it be illegal or legal). It's kind of like , in a way, the Italians were the Hispanics of the time, so to speak, from the 20's through, say, the 50's. They were viewed as not wanting to "assimilate", speaking their own foreign languages and dialects, being more loyal to their homeland, good only for hard labour, and just here to make money and send it back to family "over there", as well as being (as Sacco and Vanzetti "proved") "ill-tempered", potentially violent, and criminally inclined. The book said that immigrants at Ellis Island and elsewhere were looked over by the American customs officials and found to be "not black, clearly, but not really white either." Somehow, that summary by those customs officials seemed to somehow seep into the general popular thinking of the time. This fits in with what my uncle (who had come here before us) was once telling me that , even in the 1960's, when paperwork had to be filled out which had a section for "race/ethnicity" , it used to be "White", "Negro", "Latino/Italian" and then "Other".
So anyway in this book it went on to discuss the many ways in which some of the people here, especially in the southern states much more so than the big northern cities, looked upon Italians, "southern" Italians especially, as racially and culturally inferior. And it was of course complete with testimonies from old Italian-Americans who still recall the days when they were regularly publicly called "greaseballs, W.O.P.'s, dago n!99ers, etc etc". As well as something which really surprised me, which I definitely had not heard of before, that the KuKluxKlan actually lynched at least 12 Italian immigrants in southern states (the last one having occurred in New Orleans, LA). They said that "KKK" stands for, or used to stand for, or whatever - I guess it's still active - "K00ns, K!kes, and Katholics".
So anyway, I was interested in getting some other peoples' opinions on what their "racial perception", so to speak, is of Italians and other southern Mediterranean ethnicities (ex., Spaniards, Portuguese, Jews, Greeks). Mainly I was interested in how people who identify today as members of minority groups themselves tend to view such ethnicities. I know there are always alot of old "jokes", etc, (about Italians in particular) being like , ancestrally, "part black" ( I heard them when I was younger a few times, directed at me by high school acquaintances, when I'd play the rap music I like in my car ). And that that accounts for why Italian guys (or some of us at least) bump "black music" like rap, wear gold chains, "do-rags", etc., and hook our cars up with rims and systems, you know the whole typical stereotypical bit. I know that in certain areas of NYC, in particular, blacks and Italians have not always gotten along to say the least, likewise with Jews and blacks. But in this book I was checking out today they were addressing that fact by putting forth the theory that one of the possible reasons for some of those ignorant Italian kids' racism (in places like Bensonhurst or wherever) was because they knew inside that they were considered as "not much different" than those they were fighting with, and so they were sort of trying extra hard, if you will, to prove that they were/are truly separate. Just some sociologists' theories. But who knows, sounded interesting. And I just wanted to see if anyone around here had any (honest and serious only, hopefully) opinions on it. Thanks. ~Dino
I realize however that this post should not be here. I apologize. I should have posted it up in the "Anywhere Else" section. Please relocate if necessary. Sorry.