So I'm nearing my thesis on borderline personality women

[BeExcellent]

Whatever you do, stop getting this woman pregnant. A BPD mother plus a NPD father is not a setup for healthy, well-adjusted kids.

Oh boy. Where to begin. Obviously you fancy yourself a master manipulator (you both are to be sure).

The OP is well written and thought out to a clinical level, I'll grant you that. How old are your kids? Obviously one isn't here yet, so I will assume not yet teenagers if you have been together for a decade. The teen years are going to be hell. I myself am the daughter of a BPD, with a Dad who was "alpha" in every sense of the word, and I survived through a toughness inherent in my personality from early childhood and good self awareness and the knowledge that "I" was not responsible for the crazy at my mother's house. My father was dominant although I wouldn't consider him NPD.

I also have a friend who is divorced from a very severe BPD (he has NPD tendencies if he isn't full on NPD - I don't know although his emotional unavailability is evident)....and they have 3 teens.

The teens have issues. BIG TIME.

Eldest: Anger issues, can't cope with his siblings, underperforming in school (but does enough to get by), expects special treatment.

Middle: Already a suicide attempt (but probably attention seeking), antisocial behaviors, exhibits classic rage/coldness as well as push away/no don't leave me abandonment behaviors in relation to her mother, she was on suicide watch last fall for 2 weeks, $1000's and $1000's in therapy already. Drawn to "troubled" peers.

Youngest: Quiet. Introverted. Non-confrontational to an extreme.

The middle child is the target of most of the mother's crazy making now that the divorce has happened. It is having devastating effects on her emotional welfare.

Much of the time I spend with the dad is providing encouragement him as he navigates life in association with the crazy woman he married and had kids with. The kids didn't pick the parents or the dynamic but they cannot escape it so it screws them up if they can't stand up to it.

Would you choose these sorts of problems for your own children?

Once you marry and make babies with a BPD you can't get completely away from them. Ever. Even if you divorce you are still parents of the shared children. You are already well down that road and you seem oblivious to how tough the relationship between you and the mother are going to make life for your children. Your kids are going to have no idea, I mean NO IDEA what a stable marriage or a healthy relationship looks like. They are going to be prone to making terrible choices in who they select as partners sexually and for relationships because the example set before them is so damaged that they are going to be collateral casualties.

You need to quit theorizing on how best to manipulate your wife and start worrying about how your (and her) behavior affects your children. Now. While they are quite young. Unless you plan to draft theories about how screwed up your kids are when they reach that point.

Your wife, if she is a true BPD like my mom will not love the children once they threaten her authority as they reach the teen years and start through the normal differentiation process. This is where I and all my siblings hit the buzz saw. This is where my friend's kids are struggling greatly.

She will go ice cold and become emotionally abusive. She will crave their attention and then drop them (abandon them) emotionally. She will tell them they are selfish and worthless and will never amount to anything (to try to keep them dependent on her.) She may or may not harm them physically but she will commit emotional battery repeatedly. She will manipulate them ruthlessly. Perhaps you will too, who knows. This is a tremendous set of obstacles for your children to cope with. Now if it doesn't break them, they will be strong, but it breaks many young people. Is that a worthwhile risk?

My point is that I could care less how smart you think you are and I could care less about whether you are PD or non-PD or whatnot. Your first responsibility is to the welfare of the children and your ability to give them a chance at a well adjusted upbringing. I know this may be your idea of the best way to do that, but I'd caution you to seek salient advice from a good mental health professional.

It's very sad what I see my friend's kids going through. As someone who overcame such an upbringing I had no idea that A. other people suffer the same way, B. that many people fail to overcome it, and C. it leaves scars that are always there lurking. If you can set your own need for external validation aside for just a moment, look at how this manifests. Your children are the sacrificial lambs here. Please consider them first.

 

[fastlife]

She has you beat at game theory by default. You're playing chicken--she removed the steering wheel from her car a long time ago.

Now see this is what I'm talking about. This is high level discussion (if even told through an animated lens). Let's stay in the pocket here. Ejecting is fine, I'm still working on custody before I leave the house. So there's nothing to gain by ejecting right now. I gotta get that sorted out while I have some sort of control on the situation.

But you ceded control by outlining your intentions. Better off doubling down on your commitment, giving her the illusion of commitment, which would buy you some time to get your ducks in a row

• Use of a lack of object constancy gives considerable leeway in possibly restarting the relationship stages. Though there is discussion about the "stages" decreasing in time duration. So be it.

Can't reset being split-black with any degree of predictability. Lack of object constancy doesn't obviate the need for black/white judgments in order to avoid taking hard-reality into account. You're giving her everything she needs to make that split--and to justify it to anyone and everyone as part of her smear campaign and to bait her hook for your replacement.

• Use of fear of abandonment for retention.

Except their fear of abandonment runs parallel to the necessity of precipitating that abandonment. The less willing you are to abandon her IN FULL, the more she'll up the ante. A pimp can pimp it with these girls, since he literally has nothing at stake. You have a family--and no matter how emotionally detached you are from her, she has you on the hook for that.

• Use of "one sided" open mechanic to create distance and seek NRE while using her for shared conscious, family and a personal wh0re.
• This then would be permanently "stage 1"ing her.

See above. Can't turn a wh0re into a housewife; the converse is also true: You can't turn YOUR housewife into a wh0re. The expectations you've set for the last 10 years CAN and WILL be used against you.

Really then, our meta discussion is a debate about whether you can ever have love in an LTR. And if not, isn't this a male AF\BB? Either you can or can not have enduring love. And either you accept or reject infidelity as in a woman's nature.

You've yet to redefine love. You can keep a woman faithful--if you can maintain a fear of loss. First you have to have constantly increasing value relative to hers; she also must have the capacity to recognize that value. With a standard issue woman, it's possible to procure her devotion; though the cards are stacked against you in the best of circumstances and you better be a helluva dude 24/7, 365 for the rest of your life.

But I've mentioned earlier that fear of loss for a pwBPD is cancelled out by the inevitability of that loss (in her perception). You literally don't have a leg to stand on. Hypergamy is totally rational on a meta level--even if it doesn't seem that way when viewed through individual masculine logic. It's pretty predictable to an extent--BPD also makes a lot of sense from an evolutionary standpoint: it's literally anything goes. It's the female mating strategy equivalent of a pump and dumper who will pump and dump indefinitely until he dies in a drunken car accident or gets shot in a bar fight.

No amount of female manipulation or virtue will ever regulate that kind of behavior. The strategy is low investment crash and burn.

Is the end game if LTRs are your preferred over plates, simply to find a way to keep a wh0re and seek love through temporary means (since love can only exist temporarily anyways)?

There is no endgame--only the game and how you choose to play it to your advantage. My personal strategy is to find the best quality mate and become the type of guy who can keep her on deck for the long haul. I'm not there yet; and she hasn't shown up either--so I'll enjoy as much passion and life experience as I can in the meantime. But notice I'm not trying to 'get' anyone to 'fit' my strategy; girls will fit in my reality how they will for however long that's a workable arrangement and I'm getting a sh1t ton of practice in the meantime and genuinely enjoying the experience.

And if so, wouldn't this be a perfectly dysfunctional endgame for a NPD\BPD family?

Endgame, maybe. Literally. But it's not one worth playing or even considering.

I'm not YET convinced her low is lower than mine, simply because she's high functioning. Doctorate degree and all that. She's crazy, but not stupid. But truly a slave to her emotions. Astounding really.

Her addiction and thrill seeking seems to be side ****. And I was astonished at how intricate it was planned and executed. Like if you are squeezing this stuff in on lunch, go for it.

Even worse. Pimps tend to deal with the low functioning side of things--much easier game. The stakes are always low; you could probably find a BPD like that and keep her according to your arrangement (if you have no personal standards). And just because she's high functioning now doesn't mean she'll stay that way. But don't let your ego think that the game's worth winning just because it's a challenge; this world is full of worthy challenges and none of them have a vag1na.

 

[SadoMasochrist]

I hear you loud and clear.

Your wife, if she is a true BPD like my mom will not love the children once they threaten her authority as they reach the teen years and start through the normal differentiation process. This is where I and all my siblings hit the buzz saw. This is where my friend's kids are struggling greatly.

This is important stuff I want to try and mitigate. I've noticed she's severely deficient in this stuff already, as far as being able to "work" with kids. I mean basically there's a sort of black magic with kids and she does get very frustrated by the fact it's not "do this" and they do it.

To be frank, I don't see how it could possibly be better with me out of the house. If anything, I'm what's keeping the kids going along, trying not to pat myself on the back too much.

She cares about the kids, just don't know how to bond with them properly. I know it causes her a lot of mental pain to process both loving them and hating them and she's smart enough to know it's not normal. Yet she projects like mad and can't grasp that she has BPD. Once I started reading walking on eggshells and they talked about how people literally can not become self aware to this, and "everyone else is wrong" it made more sense. Because it's something I had to a great degree.

What helped me on my path of self awareness was really grasping the reasoning of "how can I be the different one, why is that?" And when I started asking questions about why in so many situations I was basically put on time out and realizing the world was a game, and that people innately liked this game, even though I preferred straight forward communication. At that point I couldn't ignore that I was the one with something wrong in the world, just what was it?

Even logically I could tell my thought patterns didn't make sense from an efficacy standpoint, I was always fixed on false negatives. That drove a long aversion to traditional schooling until I got it. I always though "they'll see me for who I am, I don't need the credentials." That was a manifestation of my mind that I came to realize was systematically inaccurate in its calculations. I was forced to adopt different reasoning as I did market analysis for my own profit. It I think over time helped heal me, in some weird way because it forced repeated analysis of m own decision making and forced me to reject feels and accept reals.

I believe she's at that point right now and she's had to confront some issues that I think she realizes at her core. When you ask someone, "who are you?" and see tears well up in their eyes, she knows. But the line has been crossed, I'll never let her back in my heart and we both know the clinical success rate is essentially zero.

Will it be better for our kids when she has a new father figure for half the weeks every year or two? That's what I'm unsure of. I don't know if the alternative to me would be a AF\BB scenario or AF,AF,AF,AF.

Logically she thinks she wants BB, she's mentioned from non-physical, non-identity perspective. But who she sexually identifies with is AF all the way. I know she would demolish any BB in no longer than two dates. She was well known as the sh!t tester from hell.

If she's going to totally unravel, like the divorce mentioned, it's going to be then. Because I think she has some lofty aspirations of what she thinks the replacement man would be. And the news is with 3 kids, 30+, even with a fancy degree and a nice house... well.. he's going to be... soft.

I said many years ago, out of intuition, now through certain verification (at least to my self) that the man she "needs" would be ASPD, a straight psychopath. I'm seeing if I can walk that line, and if not, exiting is fine. That's already in motion.

It's up to her to save things as far as I'm concerned. I'm already checked out, though intrigued by this idea of the ultimate perversion.

 

[SadoMasochrist]

Can't reset being split-black with any degree of predictability. Lack of object constancy doesn't obviate the need for black/white judgments in order to avoid taking hard-reality into account. You're giving her everything she needs to make that split--and to justify it to anyone and everyone as part of her smear campaign and to bait her hook for your replacement.

That's fine. She doesn't have anyone on her side because she doesn't really have any friends. Her parents, fine. Again, I'm not scared of losing her. She's gone, you know?

Except their fear of abandonment runs parallel to the necessity of precipitating that abandonment. The less willing you are to abandon her IN FULL, the more she'll up the ante. A pimp can pimp it with these girls, since he literally has nothing at stake. You have a family--and no matter how emotionally detached you are from her, she has you on the hook for that.

Can you ELI5 this please? These parallel mechanics I need to understand better.

See above. Can't turn a wh0re into a housewife; the converse is also true: You can't turn YOUR housewife into a wh0re. The expectations you've set for the last 10 years CAN and WILL be used against you.

Oh she's been my wh0re, but I'm just turning that dial up to 11.

You've yet to redefine love. You can keep a woman faithful--if you can maintain a fear of loss. First you have to have constantly increasing value relative to hers; she also must have the capacity to recognize that value. With a standard issue woman, it's possible to procure her devotion; though the cards are stacked against you in the best of circumstances and you better be a helluva dude 24/7, 365 for the rest of your life.

Well love I think is best described as the resting period of two people who have let their guard down and are able to let each other have vulnerability of theirs. AFTER the "yearning." The fact she's stuck at yearning means she isn't experiencing what anyone else considers love. She innately identifies as wanting to be an orbiter.

It's the female mating strategy equivalent of a pump and dumper who will pump and dump indefinitely until he dies in a drunken car accident or gets shot in a bar fight.

I agree. I also agree with the clinical perspective that before they had a name they were simply "homewreckers." Like by design. It's incredible.

No amount of female manipulation or virtue will ever regulate that kind of behavior. The strategy is low investment crash and burn.

Interested if you can expand here, from game theory perspective. You have a titanium grasp on this, and I think very few people in the entire world do. I think our group is probably maybe 50 people max. A lot of people got burned, but not many can match up the burn with the brain mechanics and game theory into one ****tail.

Endgame, maybe. Literally. But it's not one worth playing or even considering.

Well I like playing it now, so I got that going for me?

Even worse. Pimps tend to deal with the low functioning side of things--much easier game. The stakes are always low; you could probably find a BPD like that and keep her according to your arrangement (if you have no personal standards).

Would never just because you can't hedge with her having a high income. Low income women are too dangerous to have kids with. Glad I never strayed from that. My dad taught me that one, $250K divorce, something like that.

And just because she's high functioning now doesn't mean she'll stay that way. But don't let your ego think that the game's worth winning just because it's a challenge; this world is full of worthy challenges and none of them have a vag1na.

That is a concern I shared with my mom. It would be a travesty to see her to LF, lose the house and all that. There's a TON of equity right now, so if she goes off the rails there'd be time to salvage things before things flame out. But yeah, considerable concern about how the game plays out once I leave.

 

[dutchmaster]

The irony of this whole thread is that he's just using his BPD story if it's even real to get Narcissistic supply lol

My thesis of your thesis:
"she's fvckin crazy and dangerous.. and here's why.. and here's why u shouldn't stick around.. BTW I'm sticking around. Argue with me why this is wrong so I can prove why my superior self can handle this crazy woman"

feel like I'm getting a pd from just reading this thread

 

[fastlife]

That's fine. She doesn't have anyone on her side because she doesn't really have any friends. Her parents, fine. Again, I'm not scared of losing her. She's gone, you know?

She had no one when she met you She's better at this game than you are--society will be on her side; she'll always have guys willing to catch her

Can you ELI5 this please? These parallel mechanics I need to understand better.

Repetition compulsion. She has to find a way to feel those emotions, to experience that pain, and to project that pain onto other people to validate her existence. She has to have you abandon her--it's part of the narrative; and she'll do whatever she needs to make that happen.

You're in her frame whether you like it or not. Look up Karpman's Triangle. That's you. She always wins--just a question of how low you're willing to go.

Well love I think is best described as the resting period of two people who have let their guard down and are able to let each other have vulnerability of theirs. AFTER the "yearning." The fact she's stuck at yearning means she isn't experiencing what anyone else considers love. She innately identifies as wanting to be an orbiter.

What you're describing is comfort--'Love' as most people 'experience' it is the tension between attraction ("yearning") and comfort. But comfort doesn't exist. Comfort is the end of the love relationship--as soon as comfort is optimized in any female then that part of hypergamy's optimized and she may or may not ever cheat on you and you may grow fat and old and sexless together. But the format for lasting love is you chasing life and the girl chasing you and feeling 'secure' in your strength but pretty damned uncomfortable at the amount of work she has to do to keep up.

You're chasing Mrs. BPD and trying to organize your life to accommodate her. Won't work.

I agree. I also agree with the clinical perspective that before they had a name they were simply "homewreckers." Like by design. It's incredible.

It works. If you look at any woman whose shaped history and crashed the course of great, powerful men, chances are she at least had elements of borderline.

Interested if you can expand here, from game theory perspective. You have a titanium grasp on this, and I think very few people in the entire world do. I think our group is probably maybe 50 people max. A lot of people got burned, but not many can match up the burn with the brain mechanics and game theory into one ****tail.

Ultimate extreme of male r-selection. Probably elements of ASPD. Female r-selection still requires at least a degree of acquiring parental or communal investment: enter BPD. NPDs by their very nature can't compete on those terms--ego is an element that demands at least a degree or facade of K-selection. Codependency is the extreme of K-selection.

Well I like playing it now, so I got that going for me?

You love the distraction--just a smoke and shadow show put on by your ego to keep you from confronting yourself. Been there, done that. You--the real, suppressed you you've been distracting yourself from for however long--really aren't as bad and scary as your ego wants you to think.

That is a concern I shared with my mom. It would be a travesty to see her to LF, lose the house and all that. There's a TON of equity right now, so if she goes off the rails there'd be time to salvage things before things flame out. But yeah, considerable concern about how the game plays out once I leave.

Not your decision. The last card my BPDex played was the fact that I cared about what happened to her as a person and as a potential and as a reflection of the kind of girl I chose for my first relationship, even if she was an ex. That was the last knife twist. If I didn't detach from that, I'm convinced she would've totally destroyed herself just to spite me.

I'm done here. I have a pretty solid grasp on the disorder--and it's knowledge that wasn't worth the effort it took to get it and I'll parrot the same advice that any (non-sociopathic) guy who has earned that type of knowledge would tell you: don't bother. Once you remove your ego from the equation, that's the last word on BPD: don't bother. Nothing practical to be gained, nothing actionable to do with that knowledge except to warn other men.

 

[Reykhel]

@fastlife yeah time to move on from that subject pal..

your knowledge maybe needed elsewhere.....

 

[El Payaso]

This is a good post especially for newbs who are still trying to find their feet.

 

[Julian]

great post @fastlife

OP sorry man 10 years is rough....i know you wanna hold on and you love this woman...otherwise she wouldnt be poppin out 3 kids for you..but damn bro i wish you the best hope you figure things out.


im still getting over my bpd ex. we had been on the rocks for a long time. one week i was going to visit my family for a couple days...she painted me black and arranged plans with her girlfriends (and who knows who else) every night and was ignoring me etc. and normally she was extremely clingy to me. well the week goes by, i was only gonna be gone a day or two...and anyway it tore me to shreds emotionally because she was barely communicating with me, being very shady etc...and like i said we know how a girl who "loves" you an can be clingy then all of a sudden drops you an goes cold.

not to mention i knew she was out drinking, and she was told by her medical professionals not to drink, and obviously she knows she shouldnt be..her dad was an alcoholic and she goes nuts when she drinks. anyway...

finally she texts me and asks me to come to her. i say F THAT. now Its been a month since i have seen her in person. we have exchanged texts. her minds blown i went NC on her ass. i changed my # a week ago. a couple messages on FB this week and finally i had enough and just got PISSED...i told her to just fuk off and i dont want to talk to her any further. it sucks because i did care about her alot but my personal dignity wont allow me to stoop any lower then I have for her already. Taking physical attacks from her, drunken rages, constant crying/projection of depressing feelings, the hot cold behavior, the self harming she did etc etc. Yet in all that darkness there was a light inside of her that shone through...yet it wasnt enough for me to stick around as it was destroying me.

I hate that we lost eachother but it sucks falling for someone who has a legit mental disorder. there is no properly gaming a chick like that. if she is willing to cut herself and draw blood, punch herself in the face and cause bruising and swelling and do all kinds of reckless stuff like that...how do you game a chick like that? not without great risk...its literally like trying to game the she hulk. when you see a bpd girl dissasociate and her eyes are dark black and her face is contorted like medusa and shes shrieking like a banshee...man thats scary. theres no controlling that. i dont care how NPD or ASPD you are. a chick like that can end u up in cuffs or worse she could kill you or murder your children in a fit of rage.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

great post @fastlife
I hate that we lost eachother but it sucks falling for someone who has a legit mental disorder. there is no properly gaming a chick like that. if she is willing to cut herself and draw blood, punch herself in the face and cause bruising and swelling and do all kinds of reckless stuff like that...how do you game a chick like that? not without great risk...its literally like trying to game the she hulk. when you see a bpd girl dissasociate and her eyes are dark black and her face is contorted like medusa and shes shrieking like a banshee...man thats scary. theres no controlling that. i dont care how NPD or ASPD you are. a chick like that can end u up in cuffs or worse she could kill you or murder your children in a fit of rage.

Brother, I know we had our differences on the issue of religion recently, but a BPD story is more than enough to bring us common ground. I know how you feel and went through 4.5 years of it.

This particular paragraph caught my eye because the very first time mine cheated on me with her ex husband (they're always divorced with kids) she posted pictures JUST LIKE THIS on her facebook that night before telling me. She changed her profile pictures to demons with hollow eyes and vampires with fangs. How very bizarre and disturbing.

As you well know by now, I don't believe in "evil" the same way you do, but recalling who this woman was at times is getting me pretty close enough.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Brother, I know we had our differences on the issue of religion recently, but a BPD story is more than enough to bring us common ground. I know how you feel and went through 4.5 years of it.

This particular paragraph caught my eye because the very first time mine cheated on me with her ex husband (they're always divorced with kids) she posted pictures JUST LIKE THIS on her facebook that night before telling me. She changed her profile pictures to demons with hollow eyes and vampires with fangs. How very bizarre and disturbing.

As you well know by now, I don't believe in "evil" the same way you do, but recalling who this woman was at times is getting me pretty close enough.

Evil is real bro. For some it's literally their religion. Imagine a GF that could not stand to see you happy. She gets pleasure and happiness from making you lose your happiness and feeling discomforted. They exist. You don't have to do anything wrong but be present.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Evil is real bro. For some it's literally their religion. Imagine a GF that could not stand to see you happy. She gets pleasure and happiness from making you lose your happiness and feeling discomforted. They exist. You don't have to do anything wrong but be present.

While I don't believe in evil the way religious people do (Julian and I are fresh off a religion debate in another thread), I am perfectly aware that there are very dangerous people making things pretty miserable on this planet.

My ex was a very sick person to do something like I described above. It goes to show that at times when she looked in the mirror she almost literally saw a devil/vampire/banshee/hag looking back.

What makes BPD even scarier is they are also capable of the total opposite. There were times she looked at me with this goo-goo eyes that Hollywood's best actors couldn't fake during the "idealization" phase.

That one person could dabble in both good and evil so deeply makes you shudder.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

While I don't believe in evil the way religious people do (Julian and I are fresh off a religion debate in another thread), I am perfectly aware that there are very dangerous people making things pretty miserable on this planet.

My ex was a very sick person to do something like I described above. It goes to show that at times when she looked in the mirror she almost literally saw a devil/vampire/banshee/hag looking back.

What makes BPD even scarier is they are also capable of the total opposite. There were times she looked at me with this goo-goo eyes that Hollywood's best actors couldn't fake during the "idealization" phase.

That one person could dabble in both good and evil so deeply makes you shudder.

One of my ex and the group ( got divorced and entire group turned ), seemed like the females spent years fvcking with me, and my presence and image was always degraded when dealing with them. I could be at peace or feeling secure and they would go out of their way to alter it. It took a while to figure it was an entire group thing, it was just hard to believe that so many people had nothing better to do than to enforce a popularity contest basically. I'm still cutting people off and out, but that went on for many many years.

 

[Asmodeus]

People like me and the OP here should just stay away from relationships. People like us can never have actual relationships, mostly relationships for people like us end up being a pathological power struggle. I have experienced the same as he has... Not as long as he has, but it was just a pathological relationship without any semblance of love (I honestly do not think I have), and there was not even any respect in it.... There was only a shared pathology and a struggle for control over things.

 

[Julian]

Brother, I know we had our differences on the issue of religion recently, but a BPD story is more than enough to bring us common ground. I know how you feel and went through 4.5 years of it.

This particular paragraph caught my eye because the very first time mine cheated on me with her ex husband (they're always divorced with kids) she posted pictures JUST LIKE THIS on her facebook that night before telling me. She changed her profile pictures to demons with hollow eyes and vampires with fangs. How very bizarre and disturbing.

As you well know by now, I don't believe in "evil" the same way you do, but recalling who this woman was at times is getting me pretty close enough.

Lol yes BlueAlpha1 we have our spats and Im still thinking someday you will "see the light" lol as I have. I respect your opinion as well brother. No hard feelings ever even if things get a little heated haha.

Anyway back on topic...yes the demon thing is crazy...I remember telling my ex that i literally said "you turned into a fkin demon last night" and she was legit struck by that thought. I asked her what "posessed" her to behave that way...she said she didnt know. Whatever you wanna call it...it was NOT good.

And we definitely have that common ground when it comes to dealing with the BPD lunacy.I think the scariest part though, is getting those big goo goo doe eyes, like an in love anime girl character...you can see just deep love and yearning and...pain as well.its actually quite heart melting and its how they continue to sink their fangs deeper into you.

 

[xstang77]

Oh man can I relate to you guys,just got out of a 2 year bpd relationship with 4 recycles and now she's with another guy and I haven't heard from her in a month so I believe she's really done and gone,the demon eyes you guys talk about,glad I'm not the only one whose seen that,I would tell her she acted like I killed her entire family or something with the hate she has towards me,and they would get really big and black almost and even more creepy is when she would leave and go with other guys and post pictures of them together I swear I see them,almost like the devil is reaching out to me. I could write for hours of the horrid things she did,I used to have slight narcissistic traits but once she got her hooks in me I was a victim like any other guy,there is no winning with them,if they can't push you to leave them and confirm there childhood abondonement they will do it themselves and leave at the worst possible times and then act like the victim.

 

[BrainDamage92]

The Cluster B disorders overlap so you cant claim BPD this is BS. But those conditions spring from unadequate mothers, for example most men are pretty codependant which is not better than what you call bpd

 

[BeTheChange]

Phenomenal posts speaks to what I'm going through now. It's incredibly bitter pill to swallow to acknowledge that after all this time she never really loved you. Soldier on brother and thank you for this.

 

[BeTheChange]

I've never been diagnosed--but I was a total Cluster B grab bag (thanks mom & dad lol). I read all the stuff about how NPDs can't ever change--and it was convenient at the time; change was tremendously uncomfortable and I could easily trick myself into idealizing 'how I was' as the correct way of being (who'd of thought?).

I still slip into old habits from time to time--but the difference is that I catch myself; I've learned how to self-validate & to practice radical self-acceptance. If you're interested I can dig up some stuff on meditation work I've posted about in the past--can't promise anything, but if you're self aware it might be worth a shot. Definitely get more out of that than clinging onto Mrs. BPD.

I too after my last heart wrenching relationship in 2010 went through a period of self analysis where I just "accepted" I was a NPD but I agree this is lazy thinking. You can always change yourself and manage your demons (thanks mum and dad indeed!). Very interested in some of the meditation work and literature you mentioned. Would you be able to repost or send a private message?

 

[BeTheChange]

Your LIFE. She'll take you as far down as you let her (and I promise her bottom is lower than yours). She can burn it to the ground, abandon her kids, take up with junkies in an abandoned trailer park--your ego won't let you walk away from all that. If you were full blown ASPD, I'd say go for it. You're not.

It's like, I'm not emotionally invested in a tornado hitting my house--doesn't mean it won't fvck up my life. She doesn't 'respect' you--you can't respect anyone or anything if you don't have some degree of self-respect, which require a degree of self, which she doesn't have. She has you beat at game theory by default. You're playing chicken--she removed the steering wheel from her car a long time ago.

The only play is to eject. She may or may not take it upon herself to ruin you (though she'll certainly try if you make it so damned convenient). You know what I did with my ex? I went BP AF; took the blame for everything; told all of our mutual acquaintances that I was fully responsible; mirrored her back to herself--told her I was a six year old trapped inside an adult body. Validation, validation, validation. Then I locked myself in my room for a month and meditated nonstop. There was no more game left for her to play--so everything blew over. That's a 'W.'

Bro, I actually started clapping as I read your last paragraph. My ex had already sought to destroy me when I ended things (saved pictures to her email of bruising when I grabbed her arm a few months ago - fortunately it was only a formal police caution as a first offence) and because of my addiction to her euphoric "love" I still accepted her back when the grovelling and "regret" came.

Your posts in this thread have been an eye opener.