So I screwed up.....

[Darth]

with the "library girl."

Funny thing is, I know EXACTLY why it happened.

1. She wasn't picking up when I called, so rather than just ignoring her, I left 2 messages and called her several times.

2. When she finally did pick up one afternoon, I was too soft on her. She said that she doesn't check her voicemails until 2 or 3 days later, but that she couldn't believe she hadn't called sooner. I should have said, "Yeah, I can't believe it either." But I said something like, that's all right, I'm not good returning calls either.

3. It was noisy outside when I got her, and I told her it was hard to hear her, so she asked if she could call me back later. I said I was just calling to see how things were going, but yeah, it'd be good if she called later.

I get impatient and call later that night. No answer.

I call again at like 10:30 (I know, I know...bad bad move) and she picks up. The reason was I wanted to ask her out to a concert and I wanted to know if she would come with me or if I need to find someone else (I have an extra ticket).

So I ask her, and she says that she had heard about the concert and thinks that she and some of her friends are going already. I'm 90% sure that that's a complete lie. So I end the conversation really quickly, dropping civility and talking in a rough tone (OK. Yep. Well, I'd better get off now. Yeah. Bye.)


Now, I couldn't believe what happened during the last bit of the conversation. Once she rejected my offer and I started talking worse to her, she suddenly became WAY nicer in tone.


---------------------------

Anyway, I blew it, but at least I know exactly why it happened and how to prevent it in the future.

Also, I'm not entirely sure the whole thing was my fault. It could me she's not taking me seriously anyway, her being 21 and me being 18, first year of college. No, that's a copout....It's just disappointing because our first date went so damn well. She was really into me at the time.

My plan is to just cut off all contact until like April, beginning of spring quarter. Then maybe try again. Because, I don't know if I was flat out rejected, or if she was just saying no for now. I don't really feel like trying to figure it out either.

 

[GuanYu]

yeah you just weren't smooth enough and seemed incredibly too desperate and needy.

I wish there was a way for you to fix it, but you went too far to salvage anything. Learn from this and keep it moving.

Oh and you shouldn't be looking to "try again" in April. You should have multiple girls by then and even if you did try to get with this girl again she'd just think you are a joke. When a woman says no after pretty much giving you a ton of signals that she's not interested then unless you become a millionaire overnight she's not going to change her mind.

 

[Darth]

^^Yeah, but she was giving me such strong signals the other way during the actual date. And I had been anything but smooth leading up to that.

She's definitely out of the picture for now, but trying again much later can't hurt.


So yeah, I've got two problems:

1. I'm not smooth, esp. on the phone, and
2. I was way too lenient on her when she picked up. As if I'm supposed to be the one that bends for her schedule. Bad move. I should've continued to be rude to her..that's what got me the date in the first place.

 

[Igetit!]

Well it's about time. I was wondering when the sequel to Master Disaster's "Well,I fvcked up" thread was going to come out. I don't know what the deal is with all you guys who joined up here in 2005. Seems like after 3 years you guys would be past these little rookie mistakes.

Anyway,let's get down to business.

with the "library girl."

Funny thing is, I know EXACTLY why it happened.

You say you know why this happened,right? Well that's good. Was it after you messed up that you realized what you did wrong? Because some guys can already know before hand what not to do,and do it anyway.

1. She wasn't picking up when I called, so rather than just ignoring her, I left 2 messages and called her several times.

You already know this......being too needy......you already know.

2. When she finally did pick up one afternoon, I was too soft on her. She said that she doesn't check her voicemails until 2 or 3 days later, but that she couldn't believe she hadn't called sooner. I should have said, "Yeah, I can't believe it either." But I said something like, that's all right, I'm not good returning calls either.

Just like you said,being too soft,being a "nice guy".

3. It was noisy outside when I got her, and I told her it was hard to hear her, so she asked if she could call me back later. I said I was just calling to see how things were going, but yeah, it'd be good if she called later.

I get impatient and call later that night. No answer.

I call again at like 10:30 (I know, I know...bad bad move) and she picks up.

Yeah,more neediness.

So I end the conversation really quickly, dropping civility and talking in a rough tone (OK. Yep. Well, I'd better get off now. Yeah. Bye.)

Now this was a mistake man. Don't know whether you caught this one or not,but you all the sudden becoming uncivil and changing your tone to a rough one shows her that emotionally speaking,you're more invested in her than she is in you. You're being more reactive,while she's being the calm,cool one. Not good dude.

Now, I couldn't believe what happened during the last bit of the conversation. Once she rejected my offer and I started talking worse to her, she suddenly became WAY nicer in tone.

Hmmm. This is interesting. Looks like she sensed that you were hurt,so she became nicer.
There could be a number of reasons why this occured.


---------------------------

....It's just disappointing because our first date went so damn well. She was really into me at the time.

Well at least this part is clear. If she was into you at one time,then she slowly,slowly began to back away from you,that means YOU screwed up somewhere along the way. But I'm sure this isn't a surprise to you.

My plan is to just cut off all contact until like April, beginning of spring quarter. Then maybe try again. Because, I don't know if I was flat out rejected, or if she was just saying no for now. I don't really feel like trying to figure it out either.

Good idea. But you do need to figure out exactly what went down before you try again with her. You don't want to approach her again while still unknowingly doing whatever it was that caused her to reject you in the first place.

 

[guywhoneedshelp]

It sounds like you called way too much, but persistency can pay off. It's not like you have been calling her JUST to see her. You call her just to call her. When you are bored, when you want to say hi. Calling too much is only usually a bad thing when every time you call it is to arrange a meet.

 

[Darth]

Well it's about time. I was wondering when the sequel to Master Disaster's "Well,I fvcked up" thread was going to come out.

LOL, don't worry about that. She's done, yesterday's news- at least for the next couple months. Absolutely no contact.

You say you know why this happened,right? Well that's good. Was it after you messed up that you realized what you did wrong?

Yeah, it was afterwards. I wasn't thinking straight at the time.

Now this was a mistake man. Don't know whether you caught this one or not,but you all the sudden becoming uncivil and changing your tone to a rough one shows her that emotionally speaking,you're more invested in her than she is in you. You're being more reactive,while she's being the calm,cool one. Not good dude.

Yeah, good catch. But one good thing could be that it gave her the impression that the reason I had called her phone 5 or 6 times was because I needed an answer about the concert, not because I was needy and clingy.

I also told her in the 10:30 convo (before I asked her to go to the concert), that I was pissed because my laptop crashed. So she knew I wasn't in a good mood.

Hmmm. This is interesting. Looks like she sensed that you were hurt,so she became nicer.

I think you're right. Or, sensed that I knew that what she just said was complete BS and felt bad. Or both. But it was weird...it was like her respect for me went up, and she started using my first name and stuff. But at that point I wanted to get off.

you do need to figure out exactly what went down before you try again with her. You don't want to approach her again while still unknowingly doing whatever it was that caused her to reject you in the first place.

I think I've got it figured out. I called her too many times and I didn't call her on her bad behavior.

However, I think if I play it right I can salvage this a few months down the road. Maybe not. Whatever. Can't hurt....

 

[Darth]

It sounds like you called way too much, but persistency can pay off. It's not like you have been calling her JUST to see her. You call her just to call her. When you are bored, when you want to say hi. Calling too much is only usually a bad thing when every time you call it is to arrange a meet.

Well, this is bad, because in fact, when I called "just to say hi," she saw that in fact I did have an ulterior motive...to arrange a meet.

Whatever. The bottom line is, my interest level is obviously higher than hers right now. Which is bad. When we went on the date last month, her interest level was so high, she actually SUGGESTED where we should go for the date.

I just wasn't smooth. I was awkward as hell. The problem is, I am way better in person than I am on the phone.

Maybe in a few months I'll stop in the library when she's working.

 

[guywhoneedshelp]

Well, this is bad, because in fact, when I called "just to say hi," she saw that in fact I did have an ulterior motive...to arrange a meet.

Whatever. The bottom line is, my interest level is obviously higher than hers right now. Which is bad. When we went on the date last month, her interest level was so high, she actually SUGGESTED where we should go for the date.

It just wasn't smooth. I was awkward as hell. The problem is, I am way better in person than I am on the phone.

Maybe in a few months I'll stop in the library when she's working.

If you read Mystery's book, the one about how to bang chicks, he says something useful

"Don't assume that every phone call must occur for the sole purpose of arranging a meet. Is this how you use your phone when you talk to your friends?"

Oh and I once read this chapter to one of the girls I'm currently banging, and she wrote in her xanga (some of it, she has taken my idea and uses xanga to write field reports):

"K.F. makes me very happy. Happier than I thought he would make me, initially.

Meeting him was totally by chance in a 18 + bar of all places (really not the type of place I usually hang out.)

He was very receptive to a conversation with me. It was the first real encounter I had with someone I was actually attracted to in about 4 months. He was nice, funny, adorable and I left with Heather, feeling like I was walking on air.

Then he called me 2 days later to say Hi.
Something I never, ever, ever expected. Especially because I had so many experiences at that time with guys asking for my number, then never really contacting me, or asking me out on a date but then not acting interested in me at all while we hung out.

That phone call really meant something to me.
He took the initiative to find out what I was all about by just picking up the phone to call instead of texting me, or IMing me, which so many men do.

Currently, I'm involved in several "textual relationships," as sad as that pun may be. This isn't by choice. It just sort of happened.
Like Rachael said "When it rains, it pours."

Keith, Rich and John and NOW The Comp all IM and text me every day. And although they always probe to see what I'm doing that night, they don't ever come out and say "Let's go hang out."

I don't lead these guys on. I'm polite. I keep conversation with them and I'm myself. I'm not really interested in any of them as a romantic interest. I'd be lying if I said I didn't like the attention sometimes. I just am not quite sure what's so appealing to them though.... they are TEXTUAL RELATIONSHIPS.

I haven't hung out with any of these guys one on one.
With the exceptions of Rich and John. But that didn't go over that well. They weren't horrible, there just wasn't any chemistry in either situation.

I think what these guys are trying to do is be smooth and try and get to know me without risking anything, because it's easier to say whatever you want over the internet. They're trying to build familiarity this way. They are trying to be part of my daily life by texting me while I'm at work and IMing me when I'm sitting around doing whatever.

But the deal is, you will never get to know a person until you have a physical conversation. Nonverbal communication is just too big of a deal when it comes to attraction. Nothing can or will replace it.

Phone calls are the closest thing to a physical conversation.
A phone call from a guy shows me
a) There was initial interest of some sort.
b) This person is confident enough to enter a conversation which has the potential to get awkward.

K.F. is confident. He is interesting. He is the proverbial breath of fresh air to really tell you the truth."

----

take some time to read that and you will understand that it's not bad to call the girl the next day, or even the day you meet her. in this case I called her 2 days later. But I didn't say "hey lets hang out" I told her I was at work, which made her more inclined to speak to me in the moment because she knew she wouldn't be expected to hang out with me, and SHE SUGGESTED WE HANG OUT at this kareoke bar she goes to with her friends. I went there and kiss closed after walking her to her parking lot. It's all been documented in my xanga, see "Her name was alicia."

Yes it works I'm trying to tell you. Call a girl just to chat her up and then let her go. You don't have to make every phone call occur for the sole purpose of setting up a meet.

PS - this girl knows exactly why she was seduced in less than a week, even though I'm the 3rd person she's ever had sex with and the only person she's ever been with outside of an exclusive relationship. We read seduction books together all the time. I've known her for less than 2 months.

 

[horaholic]

Also, I'm not entirely sure the whole thing was my fault. It could me she's not taking me seriously anyway, her being 21 and me being 18, first year of college. No, that's a copout....It's just disappointing because our first date went so damn well. She was really into me at the time.

Even if your game was really on, her being 21 and you being 18 is a MAJOR issue. I dated a 23 year old when I was 19, so it can be done, but you have to understand how that can be a huge issue in and of itself. Im guessing the initial reason for her flaking was because of the age difference. When you hit 21, its a whole new world, and there's a dividing line right on that age. If you're over 21, you generally dont want to date under 21 anymore. There's exceptions, of course, but thats pretty much how it is. You're gonna just have to deal with it. You really cant blame her either, if my assumptions are correct.

 

[Darth]

Even if your game was really on, her being 21 and you being 18 is a MAJOR issue. I dated a 23 year old when I was 19, so it can be done, but you have to understand how that can be a huge issue in and of itself. Im guessing the initial reason for her flaking was because of the age difference. When you hit 21, its a whole new world, and there's a dividing line right on that age. If you're over 21, you generally dont want to date under 21 anymore. There's exceptions, of course, but thats pretty much how it is. You're gonna just have to deal with it. You really cant blame her either, if my assumptions are correct.

Interesting.

Well, hindsight is 20/20. I know exactly what I should have done to keep her interested, but can't undo what happened.

The only thing to do is wait for a few months, and then "run into her" at the library or leave a very nonchalant, non-needy message.

Something like:
Hi, ____. It's Darth. Listen, why did you give me your number if you never pick up? I don't like when girls tease me. I thought I would call and see how you were doing, but I don't have time to play games, I'm busy. My number is _______. Please call me back." Click.

This type of irritated, commanding message is what got me the date in the first place, before I started caring about hurting her feelings. Might as well go back to what worked....

 

[Rounder]

Interesting.

Well, hindsight is 20/20. I know exactly what I should have done to keep her interested, but can't undo what happened.

The only thing to do is wait for a few months, and then "run into her" at the library or leave a very nonchalant, non-needy message.

Something like:
Hi, ____. It's Darth. Listen, why did you give me your number if you never pick up? I don't like when girls tease me. I thought I would call and see how you were doing, but I don't have time to play games, I'm busy. My number is _______. Please call me back." Click.

This type of irritated, commanding message is what got me the date in the first place, before I started caring about hurting her feelings. Might as well go back to what worked....

Your age difference is a big issue - HUGE - you won't understand this until you are actually 21. Thing is - all teenagers think they know everything and very few actually take advice from other people, consider it and then use it to their advantage. You'll say I'm just some old guy that doesn't know what I'm talking about. You can decide for yourself if you want to listen to the advice you've been given and how/if to apply it. The age difference is a big deal...don't underestimate it.

"irritated, commanding message"? That message screams "please give me another chance!" and "Please call me back?" are you kidding?

Go spin other plates - go get more numbers, go out on other dates, get her out of your mind right now. You're putting too much emphasis on this girl. You went on 1 date yeah? So what if you don't go out again? That doesn't make or break you. Go get 10 numbers, go on 5 dates, bang some of them...suddenly this girl won't matter nearly as much.

Don't put any expectations on women or dates until you've gone out with them numerous times and they've shown you they are worth that kind of investment. Don't "get your hopes up" - and don't say you haven't or didn't - because you did.

Girl I'm seeing now - I got her # while out with another girl at a bar. I waited 6 days to call her and talked to her for less than 10 minutes - a "date" never even came up. Called her a few days later and set up the date for later that week - which was then a full 2 weeks later after I got her #. My expectations were very low for her - I really didn't think she'd be that interesting. Every encounter should be just like that - no matter how hot she is.

 

[Darth]

Don't put any expectations on women or dates until you've gone out with them numerous times and they've shown you they are worth that kind of investment. Don't "get your hopes up" - and don't say you haven't or didn't - because you did.

I wouldn't care nearly as much if she rejected me. I'm irritated because it was MY fault- I didn't play it right. Because after the date, she said she wanted to see me again. Then she started not returning calls (probably because she turned 21, lol) and I turned needy. So yeah, I guess it's just my ego. I don't like failing at anything. I want to fix it.

What's the harm?

But thanks for your advice and I will take it to heart. My expectations with this girl are low. I understand the age thing.

EDIT: But is the age thing really that bad? I am really attracted to the 20's girls, not the teenagers. Many girls in their 20's are prettier, usually dress better, and are more on my mental level. Most teenage girls I know are in "OMG he texted me but he didnt add me on Facebook wut do i do" land (which I think started with my generation). In general they're irritating and self-centered.

So if this is a problem, I think I'm going to be having it for a while....

 

[Rounder]

What's the harm?

EDIT: But is the age thing really that bad? I am really attracted to the 20's girls, not the teenagers. Many girls in their 20's are prettier, usually dress better, and are more on my mental level. Most teenage girls I know are in "OMG he texted me but he didnt add me on Facebook wut do i do" land (which I think started with my generation). In general they're irritating and self-centered.

No harm - just realize the obstacle facing you. If you are honest with that and realize it IS an obstacle then you're ok.

I agree - girls in the 20s are all the things you said. The age issue isn't bad - it will just be more difficult. Kind of like a guy who is a 6 trying to date a HB10.

So you made a mistake - learn from it and grow. You don't have to prove to yourself, to anyone else or her that you've learned from your mistake by gaining her interest.

Each time you approach, go on a date, have sex, etc. you are going to learn. The more you do all of those things the better you will get. Example - I approached a set a couple months ago and I didn't take into account the fatty in the group. She c0ckblocked me and hated the attention I was giving the pretty girls. I didn't plan for her to be an issue. I made a mistake. I learned from that and the next time that situation comes up I know how to deal - I'm prepared for it.

So you called this girl too much - you were too needy - learn from it by NOT doing that with the NEXT 21 y/o. Giving this girl any more attention anytime soon is going to come off as even MORE needy. Want to get this girls attention? Get a really hot girl who is ONLY your friend to go to the library with you in a few weeks (NOT tomorrow - 3 weeks minimum). Your hot friend needs to know what you're up to. Have her be friendly with you, but not overly so...not hanging all over you, but in your personal space - to make Library Girl wonder what she is to you.

When you pass by say "Hi Library Girl...how are you?" - be nice, be cool and don't have a conversation, smile and be a cool customer. Go in 2 or 3 weeks later, alone this time, but don't go right up to her and start chatting her up. Make her wonder why she isn't getting your attention now. If a good opportunity is there to chat her up, do it, if not, no worries. You cannot seem needy in any way to Library Girl ever again. Think of her as an experiment now - see what you can pull off down the road, but focus on other girls for now.

I love having hot girls as friends - if they are uber cool they'll help you with crap like this and it works wonders.

Good luck.

 

[Darth]

Thanks.

On a funny note, I was in the library today checking a couple books out and there's this other girl at the counter, who is also very pretty, and she was absolutely checking me out as I walked up to the counter and then acting shy and looking down and etc. When I turned my head to look at something, I saw her out of the corner of my eye running her fingers through her hair and brushing it behind her ears.

Then she went to the other side of the desk and was just fumbling around with the books for about a half a minute, and I didn't realize what she was doing, but then she gave the books to me and she hadn't done anything. No receipt, no nothing. I figured she must have been confused about something.

It dawned on me after I left that she was simply just standing there waiting for me to make conversation with her. This was her "hint."

I'm a moron. For those that don't remember, this same type of thing happened at the same exact library with the original girl.

Now I'll try ask her out next week. This is my second chance....

 

[Darth]

Well, I did no contact with the library girl over the past weeks, and I guess her conscience got the better of her because she looked up my email today and emailed me, apologizing for her rude behavior and explaining basically that she didn't have the guts to tell me she wasn't interested on the phone because she didn't want to hurt my feelings.

So now we're in a "let's still be friends because you're a great guy" situation. Whatever. I guess I can use some female friends.

This has been interesting, but now I can officially say...case closed.

 

[The Master Disaster]

Well, I did no contact with the library girl over the past weeks, and I guess her conscience got the better of her because she looked up my email today and emailed me, apologizing for her rude behavior and explaining basically that she didn't have the guts to tell me she wasn't interested on the phone because she didn't want to hurt my feelings.

So now we're in a "let's still be friends because you're a great guy" situation. Whatever. I guess I can use some female friends.

This has been interesting, but now I can officially say...case closed.

Least you have your answer.. It may not be the one you hoped for, but at the very least you know where you stand with her.

... I'm still wondering with mine. We just went out to dinner last night, and I don't even know where the hell we are.