So I followed the 3rd date rule.

[jophil28]

Going forward, if you plan to surround yourself with the highest quality candidates, disqualify her for disrespect not self respect.

Word !

 

[jophil28]

Obviously I wasn’t making her wet enough, And that hurt me on a very personal level!
That was the night to have sex- I did it all- all kinds of romantic scenarios, but I was still C/F and negging- and qualifying- but it just wasn’t enough.

And when your best isn’t good enough- that hurts.

That wasn't your best -in fact it was kinda tragic.
Here are a few of your more obvious blunders.

Mistake - You continued to escalate at warp speed with someone who sent you ASD and LMR signals. When a woman pulls back, it's best to pull back too. Do you like to be hounded when you need to take a breath ?

Mistake - You believed that a woman "should " be wet for you just because you did your 'dog and pony act' - C&F and negs and so forth.
Women's emotional and sexual responses work somewhat like a volume radio dial. You turn it up slowly. Unlike a male's, it is not NOT a spontaneous chemical reaction.

Mistake - You failed to read her 'buying temperature" accurately, preferring to believe that your
"persistence" was about to bring you your hoped for reward.
( From you account, and my own experience, I would have read her as being 75% ready to involve herself in a sexual relationship but NOT on that night)

Mistake - You stayed around at HER house and continued to do more of what did not work for 12 hours.

Mistake -YOU got angry because she was not acting in a way that you believed she should. You punished her for her personal restraint and her choices.

Mistake -You believed in some internet forum "method" to the letter, and so you were convinced that it MUST work if you persist.
These are theories only, and not linear equations.

MY guess is that she has maintained radio silence because she is either not interested or she is waiting for you to contact her .
It is you call now.

Live and learn.

 

[imgamens]

Man you guys are giving me some tough love- it hurts but I asked for it.

Let me add two more points to my defense.

1st: my bud has been hanging out with a 35 year old woman as well. He actually got her naked, but no sex. She has touched his **** and he has fingered her as well. They went out on all sorts of interesting dates, and they went out 6 times. The last time she told him:

“I don’t want to have sex outside of a relationship”
He then broke it off with her right then and there.

now back to my story with point two:

2nd: there was no guarantee that on the next date we would have gone back to an apartment. If we had just gone to a bar or a pool hall- then we wouldn’t have been able to escalate as we did- we would have taken a step backwards.

Recently I went out with a different girl- we couldn’t get back to either of our apartments so we just made out in the bar- but we had done that on three previous occasions as well- needless to say I never saw her again. Stagnation is boring.

There is something to be said for forward momentum.

True- this was a day three- but it was a 12 hour day three- we visited 5 different venues and enjoyed a nice variety of romantic date activities- those 12 hours could have easily taken place over the course of 2 to 4 separate dates. So I consider this 12 hour date worth at least two real dates.

Then we are talking date 4 or 5 with no sex!
You guys believe in Mystery method? Well then I don’t see how someone could go that long without at least seeing the girl naked. And there comes a point where you realize no sex means she was never going to give it up in the first place. And that’s why there is a date three rule to begin with!

I will concede that maybe I played this the wrong way- but my friend’s recent bust was fresh in my mind, and my gut told me something was wrong.

If she would have gotten naked with me that would have counted for something. I would have accepted that- I wouldn’t have walked away the way that I did even if I just got the pants off with the panties on.

Twice I tried to pull off just the pants leaving the panties on- but no go.
****- she wouldn’t even let me unbuckle her belt without a huge struggle it took me 10 tries.

If she wanted to keep me around, if she was attracted to me she should have done more than she did; Maybe not sex, but more than I got.

 

[jophil28]

1st: my bud has been hanging out with a 35 year old woman as well. He actually got her naked, but no sex. She has touched his **** and he has fingered her as well. They went out on all sorts of interesting dates, and they went out 6 times. The last time she told him:

“I don’t want to have sex outside of a relationship”
He then broke it off with her right then and there.

Your bud is just as inexperienced and trigger happy as you are.
HE was making serious progress , he had her naked, she was giving him a HJ, and then he lost his composure and acted like a pouty child because she wanted to be in a 'relationship' with him. I will say it differently - she thought so much of him that she wanted to be connected and merged with him emotionally and sexually. SHe had HIGH interest level in him and so he dumped her for her trouble all because his agenda did not exactly match hers.
Both of you need to get a grip on how MOST decent woman operate because BOTH of you failed with both of the women who were 'warmed up' but not quite at boiling point..
Those woman had reasonable expectations for themselves, and both of them were treated badly by you two for having them. They had clear criteria for entering a sexual relationship. How those relationships were to be constructed were entirely up to you and the woman.

You and you bud seem to have different requirements than the woman in your lives, and YOU seem to be cemented into most of your beliefs inspite of the lack of results that your actions have delivered.

If you (and your bud) just want recreational sex, then just cruise the bars. Your wish will be granted. IF you are 'dating' woman hoping that she will 'put out' because you feel entitled to be paid for your efforts thaen get used to waking up with blue balls.

 

[jophil28]

True- this was a day three- but it was a 12 hour day three- we visited 5 different venues and enjoyed a nice variety of romantic date activities- those 12 hours could have easily taken place over the course of 2 to 4 separate dates. So I consider this 12 hour date worth at least two real dates.
.

That is crazy logic. You cannot impose your expectations of sexual rewards on a woman according to the number of hours that you have 'logged' with her on dates.

The analog is a goldigger complaining to her girlfriends that she has dated the same guy three times and NOW she expects first class, five star. And if he does not deliver diamonds and furs from now on, he is out the door.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Well brother, you can play G.I. Joe with VU all day, or you can get scolded by the JOPHILs for being less than an ethical guy for actually thinking the girl (not a woman) might want to bang you after giving you tug job on date 3, but you did the right thing.

What I find extraordinarily ironic is that the same guys telling you you blew it by acting as you did are the same absolutist, "quality woman" seekers who'll tell you to have a zero tolerance policy for EXACTLY this type of sh!t. Un-ƒucking-believable! The guy Man's-up with a girl after being prick-teased for 12 hours, finds it within himself to eject with a severe case of blue balls and you guys (of all posters) are going to fault him for not having been more patient? GTFOH! How the hell is it I'M the one pointing this out?

So you read a few of Rollo's rules and disqualify a girl who didn't give up the goods by date three. Yet if this girl banged your brains out on date 1, she would be a worthwhile investment?

Do you honestly believe EVERY girl who is into you will f*ck you by date three?

If the girl is escalating and continues to date you, she finds you attractive. What you have done is taken an admirable quality, which is self control, and punished her for it. Continue with this mentality and you will build yourself a harem full of hoars, not quality contenders.

And yet here he is, d!ck-in-hand. What's more ironic is that any guy here would think that by her filibustering this guy after teasing him to this degree she'd be a potentially "quality woman". I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! Aren't YOU guys supposed to be the ones to tell chumps they need to vet women more stringently? WTF?!

All this is is indicative of an AFC scarcity mindset. Be absolute, have a zero bullsh!t tolerance,...but not so much that you might lose out on what seems to be a good "quality woman" (or even potentially so if it fits an outline). Why don't we just say ONEitis is a good thing while we're at it? Sorry absolutists, you don't get to play both ways, that's one of the drawbacks of living in a black or white world. I can tell this guy to pragmatically eject and you're going to say "no, it's your fault, give her more time, sublimate yourself in spite of her behavioral manipulations"?

Congratulations IMAGAMENS, you did precisely the right thing. If I can find a fault it's that you didn't do it sooner. I will agree with JOPHIL that you should've read the signs earlier, but you eventually did the right thing by pushing off. Generally you can see this sh!t coming earlier, but when all indications make you think you're going to end up naked at the end of the night, it becomes a game for you to try to figure out what the secret formula will be to do so. She teases you, gives you IOIs with intent to ƒuck, and then filibusters your advances; this is classic adolescent social skills for women. This isn't a woman; she's a prepubescent in a 37 y.o.'s body. NEXT!

 

[The Grue]

TO be honest, I am concerned with seeing guys in their early 30's going out with women in their late 30's.
At my age, I have very little difficulty with women in their mid to late 30's. However, I don't find most of them very attractive, both physically and in terms of attitide and outlook on life.
In fact, I would go so far as to call most women in their mid 30's and beyond damaged goods....so I am not surprised that this woman played games on you.
I date women in the 23-30 age bracket, and I find that they are fine with a guy my age(I am in good shape and solvent). They have much less baggage and seem to pull less of the sh!t associated with the under 23's and over 35's.
You say you're in your early 30's.
This is ,probably , the golden age for men
At the age, you should be looking at 20's women almost exclusively.
I think when you go out with a woman of a similar age or older than you, it already gives off a sign of inferiority and women pick up on this.
She is thinking, "Why isn't this guy out with some hot,young instead of me?" and that is when she feels in control and starts playing around with you, like this woman did.

 

[vitor]

A rule of mine is linked to money.

You did not get your return on investment. You spent time, money, and effort trying to bed this girl. Just because she wants to cuddle, play games and place you into beta provider mode in her mind does not make it so. What I would have done after 1-2 attempts to **** her would have been to kiss her good night leave and act like I am not upset. She would get invited over to my home 1-2 more times for short dates, ie watch a movie, or let her bring me dinner. This way I am spending little to no money and only a few hours. If she does not sleep with you then, then forget it.

I think you quit on her a little to quickly even if you decided she was not a girlfriend for you you were so close to sleeping with her it was a bad idea to write her off.

But in your mind you did the right thing and already have other dates. This is a great thing so no biggie. If you felt disrepected that is how you felt and if that is the case moving on is the way to go. Just don't decide what you want one min you want to **** her and the next you are falling hard for this girl. F CKING her sounds like she is just a sex toy for you and falling for her sounds like you want her to be your girlfriend..

 

[Andy_Dufresne]

So she continued to jerk me off, I stopped her before I came- I didn’t want to *** in her hand.

Man, all you guys have your knickers in a twist.

Several things:

1. The above...is the mistake. Women are givers by nature. After this great night, you didn't come for her. She probably felt inadequate and like she wasn't good enough to please you, or that you were weird or something.

2. There is most likely an underlying reason for her behavior, the primary one being STD's. Either she directly has one or maybe she is extremely scared of getting one; and was uncomfortable having the conversation so she chose to do the hand job. Speaking as someone who has an STD and hangs out on this forum primarily because he is struggling to be able to game like he used to; getting an STD is life-changing.

3. The other option is most likely you may have been only her second or third partner ever, and she dug you but was as nervous as you.

4. I have a friend, been friends for years, she was smoking hot, we dated a number of years ago. Same thing, we could talk all night and we clicked as a couple but the sexual chemistry just wasn't there....at all. Sometimes it happens.

OP, if you really dig this one give it another shot and give her a call, and start from ground zero. Maybe you can escalate again, and she will open up; I tend to think she is hiding something.

 

[squirrels]

Eh...first of all, don't get bent over the "Iron Rules"...they're just guidelines. You're right that it's unnatural for a girl to hold up when she wants it, and it is a 'red flag', but maybe she just needs more time to warm up to you. Sex is an intimate thing for women, and even though her body wants it, she may need a little more time to think.

What you SHOULD do if you encounter continual and unyielding resistance during a date is eventually just get up, put your clothes on, and say good-night. Don't ever, EVER lose your cool with a woman over sex...it's an instant deal-breaker. You want her to be comfortable enough to f*ck you.

Maybe the second girl I banged, EVER, we went out on our second date, made out a little in the car, ended up back at her place. Kissing and heavy petting ensued...then out of nowhere she told me, "I'm not having sex with you tonight...my mother brought me up to respect gentleman and you didn't do that tonight". (because I didn't pay her way...I wonder if her mother also taught her to take her clothes off for money or if she found her way into that career on her own!!)

I got up, gave her a kiss, and said "good night". And walked out. Next time we went out, we f*cked.

What should you do now?

1) Don't apologize at this point. You were a little pushy and almost SHOULD apologize on that principle alone, but if you want to nail this woman, you can't be ashamed of wanting it.

2) Call her up and ask her out again...you'll likely have to wade through all the emotional "I don't understand...where is this going...not just a quick lay...etc, etc, etc"...wade through all that and don't commit to any of the "long talks" that she wants to have. If you can seal a date, do it.

3) Assuming she doesn't flake, put the moves on her again at the end of the date. If she still resists unnaturally...get up, kiss her goodnight, smile, and leave. DON'T force the issue, don't lose your cool, just leave.

4) If you don't get it on the next date, or she seems anxious about it after your last time, then you've probably busted the deal with her. Time for NEXT.

 

[guru1000]

Then we are talking date 4 or 5 with no sex!
You guys believe in Mystery method? Well then I don’t see how someone could go that long without at least seeing the girl naked. And there comes a point where you realize no sex means she was never going to give it up in the first place. And that’s why there is a date three rule to begin with!

Mystery is an earner, not a guru to base your interactions on. Tactics are a temporary bandaid and do not create genuine desire.

ASD is temporary whether a day, week or month. At 37, her biological clock is ticking; she thinks differently than a 21 year old. Other factors you look at are her past relationships, family upbringing and religious background. Every woman is not made the same, so don't let a fallible RULE impact your behavior.

A more important question; why is a man in his early thirties (early prime) wasting him precious time on a 37 year old?

All this is is indicative of an AFC scarcity mindset. Be absolute, have a zero bullsh!t tolerance,...but not so much that you might lose out on what seems to be a good "quality woman" (or even potentially so if it fits an outline). Why don't we just say ONEitis is a good thing while we're at it? Sorry absolutists, you don't get to play both ways, that's one of the drawbacks of living in a black or white world. I can tell this guy to pragmatically eject and you're going to say "no, it's your fault, give her more time, sublimate yourself in spite of her behavioral manipulations"?

"If a girl does not spread her legs by date three, disqualify her"

Now who is really being absolute?

You do not diffuse a variable equation with absolute rules when women are the variable denominator. If women were a constant, absolutes would strengthen your position. In this case, women are not constant.

However, one should be absolute in application of his own rules and follow through with application as not to betray him self. Unfortunately NEXTing by date three is not a pragmatic rule. In the case where a woman disrespects him, then he can NEXT her. But in the scenario where she escalates, disqualifying her is premature and unwarranted.

 

[scrouds]

Who the hell actually likes a hand job? I can give myself one of those.

I still think you could have teased more pulled back from her a bit and saw if she gave it up. That can bust up a woman's game of withholding pretty quick, but it that didn't work, an eject is totally appropriate.

 

[iqqi]

Laughing my ass off, because VU called this one.

Knowledge is half the battle.

 

[vitor]

a HJ from a hot chick is much better than a HJ from myself..

 

[Zunder]

BTW:
All of my AFC friends told me i did the wrong thing. they all told me she was afraid of giving up, that she had been hurt in the past, and that she needed more time with me.

I am writing my opinion on this before I read any of the other replies.

If your AFC chump friends are right, the very fact that she WAS afraid to of giving up, that she HAD been hurt in the past - might be a DAMN GOOD reason to not bother with this woman again. Sounds like she could be a headcase or a control freak, or both.

That may sound hard-nosed, but trust me.

I only waited longer than three dates a half dozen tiems, all years ago in my AFC days. Once they finally given up their "gift" on abut the 6th date - the relationship went completely downhill fast. All of a sudden they thought they owned me because I had "waited".

BTW: Their cvnts are not "gifts". Sooner you realise this, sooner you won't put up with this type of BS from women anymore.

 

[Zunder]

Do you honestly believe EVERY girl who is into you will f*ck you by date three?

YES! Every fvckn time YES!. There are only three possible reasons why she wouldn't.

One: She is not into you.
Two: She is a religous fruitcake
Three: She wants to wear the pants in any relationship, so she makes you wait for her "gift".

AVOD! AVOID! AVOID!

 

[Zunder]

Sex is an intimate thing for women, and even though her body wants it, she may need a little more time to think.

WTF? This is the sort of thing I hear from the chump school.
A women that is into you will want to bang, and bang, and bang.
There is nothing fvckin intimate about women and sex. You really believe that bullsh"t?

Intimate for a woman is remembering her birthday, anniversary with a candle-lit dinner...you know, that sort of cr@p.

I will never forget what one gf told me years ago...it was early in our relationship, I still had a few AFC traits. So I am on the couch, feeling her up slowly, blah blah blah....... finally she just said, "Just bend me over the couch and fuvk my brains out".

(For those of you not from Downunder, a couch is a lounge suite or sofa.)

 

[Warrior74]

WTF? This is the sort of thing I hear from the chump school.
A women that is into you will want to bang, and bang, and bang.
There is nothing fvckin intimate about women and sex. You really believe that bullsh"t?

Intimate for a woman is remembering her birthday, anniversary with a candle-lit dinner...you know, that sort of cr@p.

I will never forget what one gf told me years ago...it was early in our relationship, I still had a few AFC traits. So I am on the couch, feeling her up slowly, blah blah blah....... finally she just said, "Just bend me over the couch and fuvk my brains out".

(For those of you not from Downunder, a couch is a lounge suite or sofa.)

Depends on the girl. That's why you have to have some experience and be able to read the situation. Forplay starts early before you get home in bed. It starts from the moment you first see her if you haven't slept with her yet.

 

[Zunder]

Hey, I agree Warrior74. Don't get me wrong on that front.

It is when "foreplay" turns into "forgot-to-play" that I have an issue.

 

[STR8UP]

Man, step away from this place for a few days and when you come back you can REALLY see what it's turning into. With friends like you guys, AFC's don't need enemies.....

I almost got sick reading the OP.

Just how "out of frame" can you get?

Of course the Quality Woman Brigade comes out to reinforce that this might indeed be one of the three women in the good ole' U.S. of A. that is actually holding out because she's a quasi-virgin and she "respects herself".

And the sad thing is, if she's a good enough actress, she could probably convince all but the best of us that she's a virtuous angel! That's the really scary part.

It's like the other couple of threads that have turned into a trainwreck after a guy starts talking about some church chick who is hanging him out the window by his wee willy winky while she "decides" whether she will grace him with a peck on the lips. They get short of breath, their pulse quickens, and they develop tunnel vision trying to coach the poster on how this might indeed be a "rare specimen". Don't let her get away there, Steve Irwin!

What you have done is taken an admirable quality, which is self control, and punished her for it. Continue with this mentality and you will build yourself a harem full of hoars, not quality contenders.

Which is it?

Could be either one, but for someone who comes on here posting about how they "bonded" on a 12 hour date where the consolation prize was a half assed handjob, you might as well assume that it's the latter because even if it's the former he's still gonna throw himself under the bus after having already "fallen" for a past-her-prime MILF/GILF/COUGAR/WHATEVER while they were "cuddling' on the third date.

You clearly misunderstood her intentions. She applied her ASD and still escalated as a result of high IL in you, not low.

You must not have read the parts of the post about "bonding", "romance", "cuddling", and "jammies".

Seriously....you guys should be able to recognize a poster who can HANDLE bending the rules as opposed to one who needs to keep the training wheels on for a couple more years.