Skillful retorts to women's tests.

[jophil28]

I was thinking about how women test, prod, poke and provoke for the most nonsensical and trivial reasons sometimes. Of course, their 'tests' are usually well planned in advance and executed with careful timing when a man is mostly unprepared. THis offers her the advantage of surprise. In short, these are ambushes. So it makes some sense for us to have some prepared replies.

Here is my thread starter story- feel free to contribute your own.

Recently my ex G/f wanted me to accompany her to a wedding between a relative and his girlfriend, neither of whom I have never met. The wedding was in Sydney , which is 1000km away (about 650 miles).
I declined and she got pissed off, and started the dreaded nagging tactics to try to pester me into changing my mind..

She, " I thought that we were a couple. Don't couples go to weddings together? ?

Me, " Well, maybe that is true when the couple is the bride and groom. It makes sense for both to show up."

She, (getting steamed) " You know what I mean - we were invited as a couple. They expect us to come."

Me, " You go alone , I cry a lot at weddings - it's just plain embarrassing."

She ( getting more steamed) " You are not taking this very seriously. You talk as if we are NOT a couple - perhaps we need to take a break."

ME," Ok."

She, " Don't you want to talk about why ?"

Me," Nah, I trust your judgement."

And so on...I learned a time ago that it is NOT enough just to "pass" these sh1t tests, it is also essential that you create a loss for her. She needs to emerge from her attempted ambush with no ammo left and a significant loss of territory.

 

[Greasy Pig]

I have nothing to add but I have been in that situation before and failed miserably.
Who wants to sit at a wedding as the spare d!ck, not knowing anyone, your GF is all over the place talking to her relatives while you sit there trying to make small talk with some douche. I'd rather step on my own c0ck in track shoes.
Everything is becoming so much clearer when I think back to all the sh!t tests over the years!
It's time to start passing with flying colours methinks.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I was thinking about how women test, prod, poke and provoke for the most nonsensical and trivial reasons sometimes. Of course, their 'tests' are usually well planned in advance and executed with careful timing when a man is mostly unprepared.

I disagree. Most of women communication is covert, but it is almost unconsciously driven. They rarely plan in advance.

I declined and she got pissed off, and started the dreaded nagging tactics to try to pester me into changing my mind..

You are confusing sh*t tests with manipulation. They are not the same. Sh*t tests are for her to see how you withstand social pressure. She actually wants you to pass these. Non reactivity and holding fast to your frame is generally the best course of action.

Manipulation, as in this case, is to achieve a specific outcome. The best case in this situation is also non reactivity, but followed by only responding to the surface structure of her language rather than the underlying intention, and to reframe whenever possible.

AKA the meta model.

She, " I thought that we were a couple. Don't couples go to weddings together? ?

She is trying to make the assumption that ALL couples MUST go to weddings together or they are not a couple. It's a manipulative way of saying "if you don't go with me, we aren't a couple any more." (even though you referred to her as our ex above)

Responses:

Most of the time the time they do.
I thought weddings were a place for couples to hook up.
Most couples respect each others choices.
Most couples wouldn't burden each other with unreasonable requests.
Would it be possible for us to still be a couple and not go to the wedding together?

She, (getting steamed) " You know what I mean - we were invited as a couple. They expect us to come."

I'm not responsible for other peoples expectations.
Then I guess we'll have to turn down the invitation as a couple.
I expect that you'll enjoy yourself at the wedding.
I gave up worrying about what others expected of me a long time ago.

She ( getting more steamed) " You are not taking this very seriously. You talk as if we are NOT a couple - perhaps we need to take a break."

I understand you really want me to go, and they may very well expect that I should go, and I've decided that I'm not going. If that means that you want to stop seeing me, I understand. I hope you enjoy the wedding.

She, " Don't you want to talk about why ?"

You just said it's because I'm not going to the wedding with you. Is there another reason you'd like to tell me?

And so on...I learned a time ago that it is NOT enough just to "pass" these sh1t tests, it is also essential that you create a loss for her. She needs to emerge from her attempted ambush with no ammo left and a significant loss of territory.

I disagree completely. It doesn't always have to be a fight. You state your desires, through your actions and your responses, and walk without looking back if she can't fulfill them.

I don't know why you still hang around this girl. You must be doing one of stra8up's famous "social experiments."

 

[jophil28]

I disagree. Most of women communication is covert, but it is almost unconsciously driven. They rarely plan in advance.



You are confusing sh*t tests with manipulation. They are not the same. Sh*t tests are for her to see how you withstand social pressure. She actually wants you to pass these. Non reactivity and holding fast to your frame is generally the best course of action.

Manipulation, as in this case, is to achieve a specific outcome. The best case in this situation is also non reactivity, but followed by only responding to the surface structure of her language rather than the underlying intention, and to reframe whenever possible.

AKA the meta model.



She is trying to make the assumption that ALL couples MUST go to weddings together or they are not a couple. It's a manipulative way of saying "if you don't go with me, we aren't a couple any more." (even though you referred to her as our ex above)

Responses:

Most of the time the time they do.
I thought weddings were a place for couples to hook up.
Most couples respect each others choices.
Most couples wouldn't burden each other with unreasonable requests.
Would it be possible for us to still be a couple and not go to the wedding together?



I'm not responsible for other peoples expectations.
Then I guess we'll have to turn down the invitation as a couple.
I expect that you'll enjoy yourself at the wedding.
I gave up worrying about what others expected of me a long time ago.



I understand you really want me to go, and they may very well expect that I should go, and I've decided that I'm not going. If that means that you want to stop seeing me, I understand. I hope you enjoy the wedding.



You just said it's because I'm not going to the wedding with you. Is there another reason you'd like to tell me?




I disagree completely. It doesn't always have to be a fight. You state your desires, through your actions and your responses, and walk without looking back if she can't fulfill them.

I don't know why you still hang around this girl. You must be doing one of stra8up's famous "social experiments."

Jeez man, do you ever actually chuckle or smile - why so nerdy and serious ?
Anyway,thanks for taking the time to formulate those carefully constructed replies. The next time I want to bore a woman out of my life, I will use your material.

 

[amoka]

She is your EX... why is she saying "we" and "couple"?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

^^^^
what he said.

Maybe this was pre-breakup, but I'm a bit confused.

On a side note, I'll have to agree with TAIYUU for half of this. Women will sh!t test men as autonomously and subconsciously as a men will stare at a woman's big boobs. They cannot help it, and often enough, just like men staring at a nice rack or a great ass, even when they're made aware of doing it themselves they'll still do it. Men want to verify sexual availability to the same degree women want to verify a masculine dominance / confidence. This is innate and 'hard-wired'(sorry) , not some random occurrence.

On another note, I just picked up a very interesting book The Hidden Brain and it details a lot of the unconscious subroutines that run in the backs of our heads as a result of our biology and the interaction between them and our psychological survival /defense /action mechanisms. Not your standard pop-psychology bubblegum, might be a tough read for some. Virtually all of the latent purposes for autonomous sh!t testing is outlined in this.

 

[window]

This was not a shlt test ? a shlt test is when a woman will try to abuse your space or time. She was simply asking you to go to a wedding with her.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Jeez man, do you ever actually chuckle or smile - why so nerdy and serious ?
Anyway,thanks for taking the time to formulate those carefully constructed replies. The next time I want to bore a woman out of my life, I will use your material.

Thanks for the compliment. But when a women is trying her best to manipulating you out of your time and resources, I find it more effective to be serious and dead pan. It tends to defuse the attempted manipulation rather quickly.

Assuming of course, that really is your intention, and not some desire to "one up her" as you alluded to before.

Your strategies, are of course your strategies. Perhaps next time you "ex" tries to manipulate you, you could maybe try juggling for her, or telling jokes from your unicycle.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

This was not a shlt test ?

Exactly.

It wasn't a sh!t test, it was a wedding invite that mutated into a power grab in front of jophil's watchful eye.

For one thing, she assumed he would go because she wanted him to. She's the innocent victim at first, "How could you?" *sniff sniff playing the shame game

Then she tried to put her foot down, her ego was out of control.

She expected him to immediately capitulate when confronted with her suggestion to "take a break."

Definite sea change there.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Out of morbid curiosity, is this the Ex GF that was "channeling" for the couple's therapist of late?

 

[Nutz]

She ( getting more steamed) " You are not taking this very seriously. You talk as if we are NOT a couple - perhaps we need to take a break."

ME," Ok."

She, " Don't you want to talk about why ?"

And that's the power of being willing to walk away. Puts them on the defensive and gives the man the power. As soon as you fools get married this all goes right out the window. There are things you can do the secure the frame in your favor before getting married and whatnot but that's a whole other topic.

 

[Paradox]

This was not a shlt test ? a shlt test is when a woman will try to abuse your space or time. She was simply asking you to go to a wedding with her.

Agreed. It's like asking her to go to a boxing match with you.

Women love to go to weddings. It's all about romance and feelings.

Some of the BEST sex that I ever had was after a wedding....you have to play it right.

You played it wrong Jo.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

Post-wedding sex does indeed rule. And if I go to a wedding on a saturday afternoon/evening, that's cool.

But am I going to travel 650 miles in the name of said endeavor? Negatory.

There better be some huge clients to meet (elephant hunting) or another asset for my bottom line to travel that far.

 

[samspade]

Was she offering to take YOU to the wedding (or at least split the cost) - or expecting you to foot the bill?

I wouldn't consider an invitation to a wedding on its own a test, unless the implication was for you to pay and plan. What followed were certainly s-tests. But I too am unclear whether she's a GF or an ex.

 

[Colossus]

I certainly wouldn't spend MY money to travel 650 miles to go to a wedding for someone I've never met!!

 

[Blue Phoenix]

I found this message very relevant

Dealing with wild women

She will test you, constantly, to see if she can control you. Don't let her push you or manipulate you. She'll yell and scream when you stop jumping on her command. She will push every button she can find to try and get you back under control. She will rage at you. Always stop and think it through. Don't be afraid to apologise if you were in the wrong, but never just assume you were, and never apologise when you were in the right. If you were and it's just another ****-test, tell her directly "your anger is your problem, not mine" and give her some space to get over it. She'll rage even harder when you say this - that's part of the test. If she can intimidate you, you fail, and she loses respect for you. If she can't, even if the night ends on her stomping off to the spare room yelling "I'm never speaking to you again" over some ridiculous thing, you pass. Her respect for you goes up, she feels safer and more committed in the relationship, and believe it or not she finds you more attractive. Never ask for sex, NEVER beg for it. Just crank up your own engine.

It's possible that she won't be able to handle the new you. It's possible that once you stop pandering to her and letting her push you around, she won't want to be with you any more. If so, then thank her for the good times you shared, kiss her a fond goodbye and start looking for someone who can. But if you can handle being the leader of your pack, earning her respect and owning her as your consort through sheer force of personality, then I believe the relationship can work.

It has been stated over and over that if a gal does not "submit" to your frame, you must leave her. Otherwise she will set the frame, which is a lost proposition since the man is the leader, and she will resent you down the road. This is something she thinks she wants, to control you, but the moment she does, she will lose respect and attraction to you. The more bit1chy the less you have to appease her, yet the tendency is the opposite, to try to "weather the storm", which paradoxically, will make her worse.

About sh!t tests in general, it´s called a sh!t test because you don´t know It´s being administered to you. The sneakiest ones are those that catch you by surprise, this is the BIG one that will reveal what kind of frame you have, if you were pretending to be something you are not. That´s why inner game is important, because it DOES NOT matter what she does, you know deep inside who you are (a strong man) , and what you believe (she´s not number one in my life) so you don´t even flinch at her attempts to push you buttons. Actually you find it funny!

 

[forward]

Originally posted by Paradox
Some of the BEST sex that I ever had was after a wedding....you have to play it right.

You played it wrong Jo.

Traveling 650 miles to a (likely boring) wedding just for sex?
You can have some of the BEST sex ever without such a journey, and without the lame wedding.

Make a grand journey when it suits you -- there's nothing wrong with a journey per se. But you should either find the destination or the journeying-process appealing, otherwise it's a massive chore.

90% of weddings I've been to have been absolute crap. A long boring ceremony (usually accompanied by thoughts such as 'Dear Lord what a chump, and what an obvious b!tch-wh0re... how does this keep happening?!?') Then a drawn-out typically mediocre dinner with pointless speeches and toasts. Followed by lousy music and people who can't dance dancing.

Some of the WORST sex I ever had was after a wedding. No, I probably didn't "play it right" (hard to do when I wanted to stab myself the whole time).

I'd break up with any girl to avoid a wedding.