"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

Read more...

Should you pay for dinner? Yes

TheChosenJuan

Banned
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
6
Reaction score
1
Contrary to popular belief, paying for a woman's dinner has nothing to do with "buying affection". The initial attraction has already been established from the fact she's out on a date with you. The question here is WHY aren't you paying? Because you're worried about looking like a wuss. In other words, it's insecurity no matter what anybody tells you.

Confident guys pay because we want to. :up:
 

"Nervous Around Beautiful Women? There's a Rule for That"

I could talk to any woman I wasn't attracted to. Charming, funny, relaxed. Then a gorgeous woman looked my way and I'd become a sweating, babbling mess.

The fix took me years to find and ten minutes to learn. Nervousness and excitement are the same physical state — pounding heart, adrenaline, flushed face. Your brain just picks the label. And you can pick a better one.

Rule 16 shows you how. You feel the nerves, relabel them as excitement, and let that energy pour out as enthusiasm. Women notice the guy radiating it. They always do.

Read more...

Warrior74

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
5,106
Reaction score
230
I've gone dutch, I've paid, I've let her pay. It doesn't really matter much. Hell I've told girls they are paying for my dinner before hand. It's all in how you do it, with confidence or with fear and a chip on your shoulder.
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
79
Reaction score
4
Location
Southern Georgia
Eh I personally will pay, but generally aim to pick a 1st date that doesn't require much money.. Something like getting a cup or coffee or doing something fun but free. Call me cheap, but I only date women who have a steady career, or are in school and working towards one. I wont deal with a woman who doesn't have her stuff together and can't afford herself. But that is just me
 

donjuanapprentice01

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
211
Reaction score
3
You can pay, as long as it isn't the first date. YOU SHOULD NEVER TAKE A GIRL FOR DINNER ON THE FIRST DATE! Not even a 2nd date, I'd say dinner would wait for a 3rd date. 1st date should be at most a coffee, or something free. That way, either one can bail when they want if things don't go right. Only chumps take girls for dinner on a first date and pay for it.

Now, after you figure she likes you and you like her, then take her out for dinner and pay for her. After the 2nd date, I don;t think it's a bad idea.. but don't go to fancy places that charge big bucks for dinner, keep it relatively inexpensive.
 

Warrior74

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
5,106
Reaction score
230
btw. I usually only take a chic to dinner or the movies after I have been fvcking her for a while. I do the cofee date or drinks for a first meet. I don't pay for that.
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

Read more...

Err0r

Don Juan
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Funny how every girl ive dated i have taken them to dinner and paid. This questions is brought up to many times. Dinner is harmless and spending $30 isn't going to break your wallet (hope not) regardless if it works out or not. Take her out to cofee isn't a bad idea, but dont avoid the dinner date because of what your reading here.
 

#41

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
274
Reaction score
6
Location
United States
Dinner isn't a bad first date as long as it isn't the only thing going on and/or of it's a spontaneous suggestion during another part of the date that is going well ("Hey, I'm hungry -- I know this great Mediterranean place up the road.").

The key, IMO, to a good dinner date early on in the process is going someplace a little off the beaten path or someplace with great atmosphere (a great view, a great patio, a neat location, good live music, etc.). You want her to remember how fun it was to be with you where you were, not so much how delicious and amazing the food was.
 

Cinamon

Senior Don Juan
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
427
Reaction score
7
Location
England
I think most women prefer to go dutch on the first couple of dates, i know i do, and depending on how much interaction you have had with the person first, dinner can be a bit formal and intense. I prefer coffee, walk along the local river bank, or something similar.

On the issue of money, if the lady earns more than the guy, is she expected to pick up the bill? What is appropriate etiquette?
 

Joe Stud

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
685
Reaction score
16
Location
Upstate NY
I pay for dinner, at a moderate joint, because I want to. An Alpha male who picks up the dinner tab is not a p----. If she thinks he is, its HER warped judgement, and shes low quality. I take the high road, and continue to lead her.
 

“The 22 Rules That Flip the Script With Women… And How You Can Use Them Tonight”

Most guys accidentally kill attraction before they even speak. They assume they need a bigger bank account, a better physique, or smoother lines. They miss the point.

Female desire operates on a specific set of psychological triggers.  Break them, and you're invisible. Follow them, and you become magnetic.

I learned this the hard way. Years of freezing up. Getting friend-zoned. Watching other guys walk away with the girl I wanted. Then I discovered a set of 22 simple rules that rewired my entire approach.

Read more...

Bible_Belt

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
17,591
Reaction score
6,380
Age
50
Location
midwestern cow field 40
I am surprised and impressed by the responses on this thread :up:

Obviously, it is wrong to try to impress a first date by taking her to an expensive dinner that you can't really afford. It is pedestal behavior, supplication, and a lot of other bad vibes that don't get you laid. And there are serial dating women out there, especially on Internet dating personal ads, who make a hobby out of taking advantage of AFC behavior. All of that is true.

But I typically always pay, regardless. I never take a girl anywhere I can't afford, and much more importantly anywhere I don't want to be. We eat where I want, when I want, and basically she just gets to come along. I like a lot of moderately-priced Asian restaurants anyway, so the most I am out is twenty bucks or so. The girls who want to take advantage of you will be telling you where and when to take them - they are not so difficult to spot. Most women genuinely want to be with you, or else they would not go to dinner with you.

Inside their typically fragile psyches, women want sex just as badly as us. But it takes a dance first. We are not much different than birds strutting around to attract mates, it is just that our dance often involves dinner and a movie. If you lead the way and set the frame, paying is just a small part of it. Often, even though you had planned to see a movie at a theater, she will suggest after dinner that you rent a movie and go to her place, which of course is chickspeak for "please do me now."
 

Splendidostring

Don Juan
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
106
Reaction score
0
Ehh, what the hell? Paying for dinner isn't alpha-male at all. Even if you're doing it thinking "I do it because I want to do it", you still send the "my wallet is open vibe". That's not fine with me and that's why I say paying for dinner isn't something to do unless you have a solid relationship.
 

the freshmaker

Don Juan
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
imo if you asked her out to dinner, you should pay. else, you will look like a cheap bastard
 

Rounder

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
200
Reaction score
8
Location
Missouri
I hate dinner dates in the first few dates. Won't do it.

I was friends with a big group of girls in college - they would go out with almost anyone once if they thought they were going to be fed.

A female friend of mine went on about 6 dates with a guy recently. The first date was to a very nice restaurant and he ended up spending $150 on a 5 hour date. She never had sex with him. He tried to impress her every step of the way. He also made her dinner at his house - which can be great - I think making dinner "together" is more fun than just making it for her.

Take a girl to a park - pack a lunch or dinner - push her on the swings - be different.

"Going to dinner" is what girls almost "expect" - how does taking a girl to dinner make you stand out? Does that make you memorable in her mind?

Once you do take her to dinner - which I agree with donjuanapprentice01 should be 3rd date or after - paying is fine.
 

Duffdog

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
788
Reaction score
35
Location
norcal
Weird how no one mentioned saying out loud what you feel...

If you feel like making her pay half, you should have the balls to do so. If not, don't. If you like her and want to go get drinks afterwards, you can always say: "I'll get this if you will buy drinks!"... thats what I do. Since I expect that the girl I am dating has a life and money of her own, I have no problem doing so. I am still waiting for a girl to verbally decline paying...that would be funny, as I would immediately label her a cheap slob.

The last time I met a girl, she had a beta male orbiter with her...I looked at her and she looked at him and he paid for everything. It was a good night for me.
 

"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."

Attraction runs on a clock.

She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.

The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."

One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.

Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.

Read more...

Captain Harlock

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
358
Reaction score
3
Location
The Netherlands
TheChosenJuan said:
Contrary to popular belief, paying for a woman's dinner has nothing to do with "buying affection". The initial attraction has already been established from the fact she's out on a date with you. The question here is WHY aren't you paying? Because you're worried about looking like a wuss. In other words, it's insecurity no matter what anybody tells you.

Confident guys pay because we want to. :up:
well I sure as hell don't want to. It's not like the money grows on my back :nono:
 

goodfoot

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jul 14, 2007
Messages
384
Reaction score
12
Captain Harlock said:
well I sure as hell don't want to. It's not like the money grows on my back :nono:
I'm still trying to figure out why I want to pay.
 

jogel13

Don Juan
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
what if she assumes to pay half and doesn't give you the opportunity to pay?
 

Captain Harlock

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
358
Reaction score
3
Location
The Netherlands
jogel13 said:
what if she assumes to pay half and doesn't give you the opportunity to pay?
well you obviously let her. Why would you want to pay yourself if she offers to pay her share?
 

"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"

You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.

For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.

Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.

The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.

Read more...

Top