Should the man pay on the first date?

[ogre]

hey brothers. I am back, trying it again... y'know. This is one question I still can't figure out. what do you think? there were times when I paid, and it was a bad experience. The women just used me for a meal and it didn't get me a 2nd date. Note to self: don't do that again. but going dutch makes me feel like a cheap-azz and I think my date(s) pick up on the low-confidence vibe when the check arrives. that could be a 2nd date killer too. is it a play-by-ear situation? Be prepared to offer to pay if the date goes really well or go dutch if it's a flop? what about "you buy the food and I buy the drinks"? (or visa-versa) or "you get the next round"? that kinda works, I think, sometimes.

I'm sure this is question has been asked and answered on this board many times. can't find it at at the moment. Please, what is your advice?

 

[MacAvoy]

Read the bible.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I pay, but I also pick less-expensive places that I can easily afford.

Everyone has their own style. I pay for everything all the time, which by itself is AFC, but I also don't call again if the girl does not put out by the second date. We had better at least make out on the first date. It's not AFC to pay; it's AFC to keep paying and get nothing in return.

 

[ogre]

MacAvoy, I have read the bible. all I remember was that it said dont pay. but could you please point me to specific articles? note: some of the links on it are no longer working.

I think what bible-belt says make sense. I definitly split the bill if the date looks like a lost cause.

 

[Latinoman]

I pay. But I rarely go in a "date" with women I have not already phucked or at the very least kissed (or worst case scenario, the convo has become sexual).

I think the only time I dated somebody that did not met the aforementioned requirements...was this woman that I met a while back. And that "date" was more of me cooking some dinner at my place and I was not even sure I wanted anything to do with her as it turned out she was married and I already had couple more plates spinning.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

WB Ogre.
It all depends on whether you're presenting yourself as a lover or a provider. The former has a focus on the individual more than the event. It's for guys who typically don't go through the whole dinner and a movie thing to impress a woman. He entertains women's emotions instead of just her pallet. Done well, he can bed a woman in a fraction of the time than most guys. Done wrong he can find himself needing to start over with a completely different woman rather quickly.

The latter is the most common way that men operate and most women are accustomed to. This is the guy who will prove his provisional ability by paying the way for things to make the woman's entertainment. It's easier (and more acceptable) for to go on traditional dates where you do traditional things to impress a woman and then pay. It's much easier to do than the other method and you can easily keep the woman's attention as long as you are taking her to places which she enjoys (and that some other guy doesn't come along who interests her more). One bad thing is that women who enjoy this typically hold back sex in order to see how far a guy goes to prove his interest. Sometimes they won't give in until they feel that the guy is getting fed up and will leave (and she doesn't have another option [guy] available).

So, it depends on what type of guy you are and how you go about entertaining a woman. One gets you further along much quicker but it's riskier, the other has less risk and is easier but it typically takes longer.

 

[Colossus]

It's a pretty simple formula.

If you asked her to go somewhere; be it a lounge, bar, restaurant (ugh), or whatever, then you should pay. It's just good manners. Even if she offers to go dutch, I still pay if i invited her.

If you are just meeting someplace, as in "hey i'll be out thursday night do you want to meet at the pub?" Then whatever. You are under no obligation to buy her drinks. If I see my "date" (hate that word) is drinkless and I'm going up for another round then I'll always offer, but I do that with friends and such too. I find it its good social karma to be generous.

If she askes YOU out, then by no means should you foot the bill. Dutch, maybe, but dont be king arthur and pay on her invite.

That being said, I'm sure you know NEVER to take a woman out to dinner unless you are established with her--as Latinoman said.

 

[Latinoman]

WB Ogre.
It all depends on whether you're presenting yourself as a lover or a provider. The former has a focus on the individual more than the event. It's for guys who typically don't go through the whole dinner and a movie thing to impress a woman. He entertains women's emotions instead of just her pallet. Done well, he can bed a woman in a fraction of the time than most guys. Done wrong he can find himself needing to start over with a completely different woman rather quickly.



.

Totally agree. That's why I RARELY go to dinner "dates" with women that I have not phucked or at the very least...kissed. I use the "lover " approach.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Totally agree. That's why I RARELY go to dinner "dates" with women that I have not phucked or at the very least...kissed. I use the "lover " approach.

I'm with 'ya on that. There's been a handful or rare occasions that I've had dinner date with a woman I hadn't bedded but I can't see spending the time and effort of dinner on a woman I hardly know; it just doesn't make sense to me. I will sit in a coffee shop with a woman for hours at a time getting to know her and seeing if there's mutual interest and chemistry. Spending that time determining if it's even worth the effort saves me a ton of time, effort and turmoil. One thing though, after doing the do it can take a little more effort keeping the woman from wanting to jump into something exclusive. I guess there are drawbacks to everything.

 

[joekerr31]

dinner dates are crazy expensive now a days. something that i can make for 10 bucks at home costs you 50 bucks + tip at a restaurant. f*cking crazy.

I usually pay, but then expert her to pay the next time.

thats why going for coffee is a good first date. pretty cheap and you can bail if it isn't going well, just say 'this coffee is giving me diarhea, i have to go.' then SPRINT out of the coffee joint and leave her there alone.

anyway, this is just one of the costs of dating. if you are really turned on by a woman, taking her to a low-key restuarant / pizza joint where you can get a big meal for 20 bucks is the best idea. don't go too low key though (ie. no burger king or macdonalds!). but 20 bucks to initiate a relationship with a woman you are hot for isn't too big a deal.

like at a pizza joint, unless you are dating a big boned lady, odds are she won't eat more than 10 bucks of pizza on you.

the other option is an activity date - like taking a walk by some scenic area of the city you live in.

anyway, i find that most women don't even expect you to pay. when the cheque comes they go to pay their half. i usually say 'its ok, i've got it.' then they usually say thank you and say that they will pay next time.

trust me, women want to milk you during the divorce, not during the first date :moon:

 

[ogre]

thanks Francisco.

sometimes when I take a girl out I give her the works.... classy place, dinner dancing, drinks, live music etc..... but not because I'm trying to impress her but rather because I'm friends with the musicians and it's my social circle and this is what I like to do for fun. But still....she'll go and phuck someone else.....

interesting that the consensus seems to show that the dinner/dancing date should follow sex, not preceed it.

Perhaps, if I insist on going on these fancy 1st dates, I should just split the bill and walk away if things dont work out or be prepared to pay if the girl seems to be into me. does that make sense?

 

[ogre]

haha joekerr31 thanks.

I find that the traditional "coffee" date (or pizza or diner) does not work out for me. it's like a f*cking job interview. whatever I do, it has to be something unique and different. But maybe my game is too dependant on my environment. if a girl is into me, it doesn't matter if we are at a hot dog stand.

 

[squirrels]

Depends. If it's an "official date" and you asked her "out", then yeah, you should pay. If you're just "getting together", then no. Go dutch.

The main thing is that it shouldn't become an issue. For one thing, don't go on EXPENSIVE dates with girls you just met.

 

[mzilla2]

if a girl is into me, it doesn't matter if we are at a hot dog stand.

You've answered your own question, don't go on expensive dates until you've established good rapport and seen high IL from her.

 

[guru1000]

We speak alot about Masculine Men and Feminine Women.

Without explanation, if you are a Masculine Man then you SHOULD pay for the date with a Feminine Woman.

The feminist movement has distorted many views as women want to be equals. This goes along with bill paying. Many women will offer to contribute to the bill.

I don't allow that door to be opened.

As I expect to be treated as a MAN, I will treat her as a feminine woman.

 

[Latinoman]

If you live in a place that have Museums, etc....even a long walk and getting some ice cream and a slice of pizza or hot tea or a damn pretzel/hot dog would do the deed.

A place like Manhattan and its Central Park...or D.C. and its Museums/Mall. Or downtown Chicago and the Lake. You get the idea.

 

[Latinoman]

You've answered your own question, don't go on expensive dates until you've established good rapport and seen high IL from her.

I ONLY go on EXPENSIVE dates with people I have phucked more than once...preferrable a woman I have a relationship with.

A woman that I phuck from time to time...a coffee/slurpy date during lunch is more than fine.


I am not cheap. I have paid dinner for female friends in the past. I have picked the tab on a table with friends too. But that's different.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

You've answered your own question, don't go on expensive dates until you've established good rapport and seen high IL from her.

What can a guy accomplish on an "expensive date" which he couldn't accomplish on a regular date?

 

[edger]

hey brothers. I am back, trying it again... y'know. This is one question I still can't figure out. what do you think? there were times when I paid, and it was a bad experience. The women just used me for a meal and it didn't get me a 2nd date. Note to self: don't do that again. but going dutch makes me feel like a cheap-azz and I think my date(s) pick up on the low-confidence vibe when the check arrives. that could be a 2nd date killer too. is it a play-by-ear situation? Be prepared to offer to pay if the date goes really well or go dutch if it's a flop? what about "you buy the food and I buy the drinks"? (or visa-versa) or "you get the next round"? that kinda works, I think, sometimes.

I'm sure this is question has been asked and answered on this board many times. can't find it at at the moment. Please, what is your advice?

F*ck no, I used to pay, not anymore though. Why? Haha, that should be a no-brainer, considering everything about women we discuss here. Who are THEY that we have to cater to them? Chumps cater to women. We're all equal here peeps, in this case at least..of course men are still higher(morally).

Typically, I'll split the bill if I go out to eat with her(I never go out to eat with them though because it's so overdone and expected). Typically, I'll go to a club or hit up some bar with them. And I'll usually get one round of drinks, and she gets the other. What's fair is fair. Now if I'm f*ckin' her, or she's my chick, then I don't mind once in a while paying for whatever it is. Folks you have to remember something; it works both ways.

And Ogre, it doesn't show low self-esteem if you split the bill with her. I don't know where the hell you get that. ?? If anything , it shows CONFIDENCE. She realizes you're not like every other dweeb trying to appease her in hopes that she'll sleep with you.

 

[edger]

but I can't see spending the time and effort of dinner on a woman I hardly know; it just doesn't make sense to me.

And yet another reason you shouldn't pay for the full dinner, Ogre.