"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
She's Obsessed With Fortune Tellers and Astrology
- Thread starter Dave111
- Start date
"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"
You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.
For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.
Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.
The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.
I'm Joe Dirt
Master Don Juan
Yes, I did. I am perfectly aware of that.
If you had been paying attention to these forums in the last several weeks I have posted numerous times about me trying to learn cold reading.
Except when I brought up the idea of reading girls in any psychic way I was told it was a stupid idea, too gimmicky, etc. and it would never work. And here we are a few weeks later and now everyone seems to think that this kind of thing gets a lot of chicks!
If you also paid attention to the Anything Else forum you wouldve seen that I was giving away a book on Cold Reading (and about 15 or so copies were e-mailed to takers).
I am also waiting for the arrival of the definitive book on Cold Reading by Ian Rowland. It is my intention to get cold reading down cold (pardon the pun) and be able to make approaches using such knowledge.
With that said, real psychics do NOT exist, so if there are any believers on this forum sorry to burst your bubble!
If you had been paying attention to these forums in the last several weeks I have posted numerous times about me trying to learn cold reading.
Except when I brought up the idea of reading girls in any psychic way I was told it was a stupid idea, too gimmicky, etc. and it would never work. And here we are a few weeks later and now everyone seems to think that this kind of thing gets a lot of chicks!
If you also paid attention to the Anything Else forum you wouldve seen that I was giving away a book on Cold Reading (and about 15 or so copies were e-mailed to takers).
I am also waiting for the arrival of the definitive book on Cold Reading by Ian Rowland. It is my intention to get cold reading down cold (pardon the pun) and be able to make approaches using such knowledge.
With that said, real psychics do NOT exist, so if there are any believers on this forum sorry to burst your bubble!
I'm Joe Dirt
Master Don Juan
Actually you're wrong, there is very little info on cold reading out there. Ive been researching it for weeks now and as far as the internet goes I've found nothing more than basic overviews and descriptions.
I am yet to come accross a site that teaches specific application aspects of it (like the ACTUAL tricks). All the stuff I found was more of a description of cold reading and maybe an example or two.
That's why I ordered Ian Rowland's book. Every site on Cold Reading seems to agree that is the most definitive guide and manual on it with 38 specific tricks to use.
I also aquired another book in PDF form that was a little vauge but decent, and that is the one Ive been sending to people.
If you do a palm reading or whatever and just make up bullsh1t about the lines you won't get very far because it will be clear you dont know what you're talking about. The trick - and this is why pro palm readers use cold reading instead of the lines - is to tell her specific things you could not have possibly known if you werent psychic.
That's why that kind of thing has any entertainment value. If you just talk in generalities and make crap up maybe you will maybe make her laugh and she will see it as gimmicky and lame way to try to make conversation.
But if you actually know what you're doing and you've studied cold reading and start telling her about that box of old photos she hasn't looked at in years but has been meaning to sort out and inform her that she should replace that out dated calendar (2 things most people have in their homes and tasks they are likely to want to have accomplish) you might start getting somewhere.
Pour on a good psychic act and don't reveal the trick and I suspect a girl who sorta believes that stuff will be eating out of your hand.
That's the other danger though if you reveal the trick she will be disappointed. Always keep the mystery. Even if you admit you have no psychic powers don't tell her exactly how you do the tricks or else you will take the mystery out of them and out of you.
I am yet to come accross a site that teaches specific application aspects of it (like the ACTUAL tricks). All the stuff I found was more of a description of cold reading and maybe an example or two.
That's why I ordered Ian Rowland's book. Every site on Cold Reading seems to agree that is the most definitive guide and manual on it with 38 specific tricks to use.
I also aquired another book in PDF form that was a little vauge but decent, and that is the one Ive been sending to people.
If you do a palm reading or whatever and just make up bullsh1t about the lines you won't get very far because it will be clear you dont know what you're talking about. The trick - and this is why pro palm readers use cold reading instead of the lines - is to tell her specific things you could not have possibly known if you werent psychic.
That's why that kind of thing has any entertainment value. If you just talk in generalities and make crap up maybe you will maybe make her laugh and she will see it as gimmicky and lame way to try to make conversation.
But if you actually know what you're doing and you've studied cold reading and start telling her about that box of old photos she hasn't looked at in years but has been meaning to sort out and inform her that she should replace that out dated calendar (2 things most people have in their homes and tasks they are likely to want to have accomplish) you might start getting somewhere.
Pour on a good psychic act and don't reveal the trick and I suspect a girl who sorta believes that stuff will be eating out of your hand.
That's the other danger though if you reveal the trick she will be disappointed. Always keep the mystery. Even if you admit you have no psychic powers don't tell her exactly how you do the tricks or else you will take the mystery out of them and out of you.
I'm Joe Dirt
Master Don Juan
Of course you have to use humor. The mindset of the person you are reading is vital to a successful reading.
Cold Reading is no joke though. Its a trick, yes, but its not a joke. Pretending you know how to read Palms is a joke, so you can let her in on that. But if you got cold reading down to a Tee and you do a convincing reading where you are able to tell her specific details of her life and youve never met her or anyone who knows her before, that is a much higher level than palm reading b.s.
And while its a trick it does make you look like you have psychic powers or at the very least she will know you are much more clever than the averge joe. Doing a good reading is a rare skill, where as anyone can b.s. their way through a plam reading.
One mistake I notice people do with palm readings is they say "oh this line means youll find true love and this line means that you will live long". Yeah, good flattering prophecies but wheres your proof? Thats why palm reading is a joke the way 99% of guys who try to use it do it.
The thing that gives cold reading more credibility - and you can use cold reading to fortune tell - is that before you get into any prophecies or predictions you will be telling her stuff about her life that she will think you could not have possibly known. This establishes your credibility as a psychic and gives your predictions FAR more weight. Thats why that kind of thing is no joke but a very neat trick.
Cold Reading is no joke though. Its a trick, yes, but its not a joke. Pretending you know how to read Palms is a joke, so you can let her in on that. But if you got cold reading down to a Tee and you do a convincing reading where you are able to tell her specific details of her life and youve never met her or anyone who knows her before, that is a much higher level than palm reading b.s.
And while its a trick it does make you look like you have psychic powers or at the very least she will know you are much more clever than the averge joe. Doing a good reading is a rare skill, where as anyone can b.s. their way through a plam reading.
One mistake I notice people do with palm readings is they say "oh this line means youll find true love and this line means that you will live long". Yeah, good flattering prophecies but wheres your proof? Thats why palm reading is a joke the way 99% of guys who try to use it do it.
The thing that gives cold reading more credibility - and you can use cold reading to fortune tell - is that before you get into any prophecies or predictions you will be telling her stuff about her life that she will think you could not have possibly known. This establishes your credibility as a psychic and gives your predictions FAR more weight. Thats why that kind of thing is no joke but a very neat trick.
"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"
You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.
For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.
Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.
The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.
TedJustAdmitIt
Senior Don Juan
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
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Hey Joe(where you going with that gun in yo hand?)
This cold reading lark sounds good.....any chance you could PM me that ebook please?
This cold reading lark sounds good.....any chance you could PM me that ebook please?
I'm Joe Dirt
Master Don Juan
Heh, I heard that song by Pocket Change.
Um sure, PM me your e-mail address and I will e-mail it to you.
Um sure, PM me your e-mail address and I will e-mail it to you.
penkitten
Master Don Juan
wtf is cold reading and why waste your time on it?
and who are you to say that millions of people can not do extra extrodinary things?
not the carival people at fairs, or the people trying to make cash...
real live people that you see everyday , some of these people believe they can do some of these things....
and who are you to say that millions of people can not do extra extrodinary things?
not the carival people at fairs, or the people trying to make cash...
real live people that you see everyday , some of these people believe they can do some of these things....
penkitten
Master Don Juan
rofl !@@!
well you knew what i meant...
there have been people that claim to see visions, and they like dont get paid to do it, but tell the police where missing bodies are.
i mean how do you explain that, they arent even getting paid for that or trying to get recognition....
"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"
You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.
Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.
Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.
Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.
penkitten
Master Don Juan
i think its naive to think that all people are alike and no one can do anything that another cant do.
i do believe that all people that advertise and try to take money for something are liars and they cheat people by trying to make them believe some sort of "cold reading" that could be used on anyone.
however, its silly to believe that no one can do it at all.
how the hell do i know? how the hell do you know?
thats right, you dont really know either.
but we can agree that most of the people that claim they can do these things, really cant. they either want cash or attention.
I'm Joe Dirt
Master Don Juan
I am not aware of any real police department that hired a psychic that broke the case.
So far there has been 0 confirmed psychics in the world. Thats why the James Randi organization has a million dollar challenge that so far no one has been able to get.
The challenge is if you can prove your psychic abilities in a controlled envoirnment, you will get $1 million.
http://www.randi.org/research/
And if you read so much as THIS thread alone you would know what cold reading is and why its so effective.
Cold Reading is the methodlogy that psychic entertainers, tarot readers, etc. use to tell people about their pasts, their future, help bring people in contact with dead relatives, etc. It can all be done with Cold Reading, and once someone is familiar with the tricks and how they're done its not hard to spot them from a million miles away.
Its all just clever magic tricks. And to people who don't know how they're done they seem real. That's why people believe in psychics. People tend to buy into psychic/paranormal explanations for anything they aren't able to explain with their own knowledge. Once they have the knowledge those things aren't as mysterious anymore.
Just like how people long ago made up gods to explain naturally occuring phenomena that at the time they couldn't understand, today people make up psychic explanations to explain magic tricks they don't get.
penkitten
Master Don Juan
duh.. a real psychic would know if they showed everyone instead of getting a million bucks, they would find a new home in a pine box!
I'm Joe Dirt
Master Don Juan
No they wouldn't. Anyone can do a magic trick. If they wanna prove they're psychic they should let someone test that ability.
That's like saying if a magician really believed he had magical powers all he'd have to do is show people he can pull a rabbit out of a hat on stage, and would never let anyone inspect his act to make sure it wasn't a trick.
Well duh he'll be able to do it. That's the whole point of a magic trick - doing something that seems impossible. And since its a trick, much like psychic readings, it won't work if the magician is naked in a room by himself and someone hands him a regular baseball cap.
It will only work when the conditions are met. And those who know how to make a rabbit come out of a hat, know the trick, and thus they know its not genuine magic.
Same with psychics. Those of us who study cold reading KNOW these psychics tricks. So when we see them we know they're full of it. Put them to the test and they're wrong wrong wrong.
Penn & Teller's Bullsh1t has numerous types disproved psychic claims. To prove that tarot cards were bullsh1t, they made one guy get 3 readings in one day from 3 different readers.
For the first reading he washed his mouth with tequilla to get the alcohol on his breath, didn't shave prior to the taping, and had raggedy clothing. The tarot cards told him he was out of work or looking for work.
The psychic was dismissed and the next one came in (none of the 3 knew about eachother prior to the taping). This time though the subject changed his look, did his hair, and turned himself into someone who looked like a businessman. All of a sudden just a few hours later the tarot cards are now saying he's got too much work and too much stress from it!
For the 3rd psychic he dressed in a flannel shirt and had a pretend cell convo with his "wife". The tarot cards now showed he was happy in marriage and a family man (in reality the guy didn't have a wife, nor at the time of the taping was he in a relationship).
That just proves that tarot readings are nothing more than cold reading.
They also disproved those who "talk to the dead" by video taping a reading and having an experienced cold reader and reformed con artist explain all the techniques being used.
Finally, here is a website that talks about how someone learned cold reading in 1 day and the very next day convinced a crap load of people he was psychic during a tv taping of a show about psychics:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/psychic2.html
Psychic abilities are nothing more than MAGIC TRICKS. Gimmicks. They are NOT real. Some people have an intuitive knowledge of cold reading - a talent for it - and may not even realize they are doing a cold reading while doing it. So there are some people who genuinley believe they are psychic. But just cause they believe it doesn't make it so.
Heck, if you don't believe me do it yourself. Go to a tarot reader or several tarot readers or psychics and put a WEDDING BAND on if you ARENT married. You will soon see for yourself how the reader will fish for information about your "wife" or "husband" (if you are a girl).
That's like saying if a magician really believed he had magical powers all he'd have to do is show people he can pull a rabbit out of a hat on stage, and would never let anyone inspect his act to make sure it wasn't a trick.
Well duh he'll be able to do it. That's the whole point of a magic trick - doing something that seems impossible. And since its a trick, much like psychic readings, it won't work if the magician is naked in a room by himself and someone hands him a regular baseball cap.
It will only work when the conditions are met. And those who know how to make a rabbit come out of a hat, know the trick, and thus they know its not genuine magic.
Same with psychics. Those of us who study cold reading KNOW these psychics tricks. So when we see them we know they're full of it. Put them to the test and they're wrong wrong wrong.
Penn & Teller's Bullsh1t has numerous types disproved psychic claims. To prove that tarot cards were bullsh1t, they made one guy get 3 readings in one day from 3 different readers.
For the first reading he washed his mouth with tequilla to get the alcohol on his breath, didn't shave prior to the taping, and had raggedy clothing. The tarot cards told him he was out of work or looking for work.
The psychic was dismissed and the next one came in (none of the 3 knew about eachother prior to the taping). This time though the subject changed his look, did his hair, and turned himself into someone who looked like a businessman. All of a sudden just a few hours later the tarot cards are now saying he's got too much work and too much stress from it!
For the 3rd psychic he dressed in a flannel shirt and had a pretend cell convo with his "wife". The tarot cards now showed he was happy in marriage and a family man (in reality the guy didn't have a wife, nor at the time of the taping was he in a relationship).
That just proves that tarot readings are nothing more than cold reading.
They also disproved those who "talk to the dead" by video taping a reading and having an experienced cold reader and reformed con artist explain all the techniques being used.
Finally, here is a website that talks about how someone learned cold reading in 1 day and the very next day convinced a crap load of people he was psychic during a tv taping of a show about psychics:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/psychic2.html
Psychic abilities are nothing more than MAGIC TRICKS. Gimmicks. They are NOT real. Some people have an intuitive knowledge of cold reading - a talent for it - and may not even realize they are doing a cold reading while doing it. So there are some people who genuinley believe they are psychic. But just cause they believe it doesn't make it so.
Heck, if you don't believe me do it yourself. Go to a tarot reader or several tarot readers or psychics and put a WEDDING BAND on if you ARENT married. You will soon see for yourself how the reader will fish for information about your "wife" or "husband" (if you are a girl).
"She's Out of Your League"
You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.
Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.
She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.
Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.
Joe The Homophobe
Master Don Juan
b1tches obsessed with fortune tellers/astrology = RED FLAG!
such women would feal no qualms about putting a curse on your ass if the relationship ends in a bad way.
such women would feal no qualms about putting a curse on your ass if the relationship ends in a bad way.
I'm Joe Dirt
Master Don Juan
So what? Curses don't do d1ck since they aren't real.
If a girl is obsessed with this kind of stuff, yes that could be a major red flag. But it also means she's quite gullible so if you're trying to get some a$s from her, she should be easier than other girls for that purpose.
And if you know cold reading or some other paranormal b.s. trick you can try it and she'll be eating out of your hand.
But women are more likely than men to believe in stuff like this, and also it has been shown that while many do not believe in it per se or won't admit it, large percentages (im not sure the exact #) are "open to it" in surveys. Which means if you know what you're doing with all these tricks you could at least use it as an opener to get her more interested in you. It also gives you something to talk about.
If a girl is obsessed with this kind of stuff, yes that could be a major red flag. But it also means she's quite gullible so if you're trying to get some a$s from her, she should be easier than other girls for that purpose.
And if you know cold reading or some other paranormal b.s. trick you can try it and she'll be eating out of your hand.
But women are more likely than men to believe in stuff like this, and also it has been shown that while many do not believe in it per se or won't admit it, large percentages (im not sure the exact #) are "open to it" in surveys. Which means if you know what you're doing with all these tricks you could at least use it as an opener to get her more interested in you. It also gives you something to talk about.
penkitten
Master Don Juan
dude all these people were getting paid to do this.
of course they are lying.
however i just dont think you have the ability to say that no one can do bizarre things.
i mean, lets say your grandma has some funky dream and tells you its a warning. lets say you dont listen because you think grandma is just old and loopy. then whatever she forewarned you on comes true, then what? do you go home and tell grandma she didnt know squat even though it happened to you just like she said it would? no you go home and believe grandma has some crazy dreams and you never want to hear she had another bad one about you again.
Mortukai
Don Juan
In my experience, 99% of women believe in psychic powers. I've even met some who were convinced that they had them. I've only met 2 guys who believe in that guff, and 2 girls who don't, and I've met a lot of people.
The problem with Joe Dirt trying to convince Penkitten about cold reading is simple: Joe is using facts, logic, and reason, and penkitten, like all girls, only trusts intuitions, experiences, and emotions. Girls actually believe that their emotions are veridical, and that their experiences are infallible. Most guys accept the scientifically proven facts that our perceptions are flawed, our experiences are highly suspect and corruptible (just look at schizophrenics), and our emotions are almost completely irrational. But to a girl, "feeling terrified" while thinking that a ghost is in the room is "proof" that the ghost was real, simply because she thinks her emotions are infallible evidence.
This is actually why cold reading works so fvcking well on chicks. Cold reading relies on the participant, not the reader, to create meaning, form connections, and provide the content. You say a few things that work on almost anybody, but the participant, being naturally egocentric and trusting her emotions and intuitions as reality, assumes that she is special and that what you are saying only applies to her, because her emotions verify this for her.
Cold reading is usually harder to successfully pull off on a guy, because he's far more likely to see that what you are saying could apply to anyone.
So basically unless you have the power to change how a woman works, by making her not trust her emotions so much, by making her understand the fact that her perceptions and experiences are highly unreliable, and making her skeptical about the claims made by others, you'll never be able to convince them that cold reading is a simple parlour trick that explains all the bullsh!t fortune telling crap floating around, and that there is absolutly not one shred of actual evidence for psychic powers being real, where if they were real, it should be incredibly easy to find evidence to support them.
In the end, Joe Dirt is right. Cold reading works like magic on chicks because they are essentially biologically programmed to be susceptible to it. Learn it, use it, and you'll have chicks lining up to be told something special about themselves.
The problem with Joe Dirt trying to convince Penkitten about cold reading is simple: Joe is using facts, logic, and reason, and penkitten, like all girls, only trusts intuitions, experiences, and emotions. Girls actually believe that their emotions are veridical, and that their experiences are infallible. Most guys accept the scientifically proven facts that our perceptions are flawed, our experiences are highly suspect and corruptible (just look at schizophrenics), and our emotions are almost completely irrational. But to a girl, "feeling terrified" while thinking that a ghost is in the room is "proof" that the ghost was real, simply because she thinks her emotions are infallible evidence.
This is actually why cold reading works so fvcking well on chicks. Cold reading relies on the participant, not the reader, to create meaning, form connections, and provide the content. You say a few things that work on almost anybody, but the participant, being naturally egocentric and trusting her emotions and intuitions as reality, assumes that she is special and that what you are saying only applies to her, because her emotions verify this for her.
Cold reading is usually harder to successfully pull off on a guy, because he's far more likely to see that what you are saying could apply to anyone.
So basically unless you have the power to change how a woman works, by making her not trust her emotions so much, by making her understand the fact that her perceptions and experiences are highly unreliable, and making her skeptical about the claims made by others, you'll never be able to convince them that cold reading is a simple parlour trick that explains all the bullsh!t fortune telling crap floating around, and that there is absolutly not one shred of actual evidence for psychic powers being real, where if they were real, it should be incredibly easy to find evidence to support them.
In the end, Joe Dirt is right. Cold reading works like magic on chicks because they are essentially biologically programmed to be susceptible to it. Learn it, use it, and you'll have chicks lining up to be told something special about themselves.
I'm Joe Dirt
Master Don Juan
Morutaki, you hit the nail right on the head!
Cold Reading is about the participant drawing meaning. You supply the worlds, they supply the significance of those words.
As far as the grandma example goes, a lot of that is coincidence and a lot of it is interpretation. Besides, dreams aren't an exact science. Its hard enough telling people about dreams you have [if you remember them to begin with], and things that happen in dreams can be interpreted a million different ways. And since you never get the exact dreams down on video or anything once something that resembles that dream happens you tend to fill in the blanks yourself.
Such a selective memory to remember, exagarrate any hits, and dismiss any misses is called the Forer effect.
Cold Reading is about the participant drawing meaning. You supply the worlds, they supply the significance of those words.
As far as the grandma example goes, a lot of that is coincidence and a lot of it is interpretation. Besides, dreams aren't an exact science. Its hard enough telling people about dreams you have [if you remember them to begin with], and things that happen in dreams can be interpreted a million different ways. And since you never get the exact dreams down on video or anything once something that resembles that dream happens you tend to fill in the blanks yourself.
Such a selective memory to remember, exagarrate any hits, and dismiss any misses is called the Forer effect.
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"She Laughed All Night. Then She Ghosted You. Here's Why."
Dinner ran three hours. She laughed at everything. You walked her to her car thinking this one's locked in.
Then: nothing. Two texts. No reply. What happened?
You did what most men do on a great date. You filled every silence, answered every question, and left her with nothing to wonder about. No mystery. Nothing to sit with when she got home.
Rule 3 of the "22 Rules" changes the ending: tell her a little, hold back the rest, and let her imagination do the chasing. The ghosting stops too.