Shattering the Limits

[Starman]

What the hell is this crap?? Give me back the 15 minutes of my life reading this

heh, j/k Fingers..your post was funny as fvck, especially acting like a clingy AFC with the psycho chick

I have a few things I'd like to add

#1 As sPook said in one of his posts..being a don juan isnt a sum of techniques, tricks, etc

Which is true..a Real man has a very stable self image, goal oriented, has confidence and self worth

but on the flipside..an AFC isnt a sum of techniques, bad moves, supplicating etc

Its an internal feeling of failure , rejection, Negative self image and low self worth

The thing is, your AFC-experiment was just that, a satire to experiment to see if bowing down to a girl would actually work against you, but deep inside, you had the confidence, the laid back attitude, possibly even cracking up at your own antics internally. All the while knowing you can "get back in the game" anytime you felt like it

So your experiment shouldnt necessarily conclude that people here should just "be themselves" and dispose of the techniques on this forum and just free themselves of social restraints and shackles

What you call "freedom", I call DESTROYING inhibition, knowing deep inside you can do whatever the fvck you want, and dispose of walking on social and moral "eggshells" all your life and creating your own self image based on your own rules

what you have done is taken control of your social inhibition and in that sense, you are a FREE man and are free to pave your own definition of who you are and how you will act in public or how you interact with people

There are people(AFC's) on this forum havent achieved this level and dont have that internal sense of stability and self esteem..they dont know who they are, where their going, or how they should act..but a DJ disguised as an AFC is not equal to the AFC who hasnt achieved the level of self worth as a DJ

I think we are reaching the same conclusions about releasing yourself and crush inhibitions

2ndly, that whole scenario with bonita and "art is an expression that enmeshes souls etc etc"

sounds way too canned (although effective)

3rd , bonita repeatedly told you "I love musicians", could it be possible that fact alone got her to bed you ? along with the social proof? and confidence to get up on stage? and the fans?

I would hardly call that image you presented to bonita as "AFC"

just a thought..great expose btw keep em coming

 

[ArnZ]

3rd , bonita repeatedly told you "I love musicians", could it be possible that fact alone got her to bed you ? along with the social proof? and confidence to get up on stage? and the fans?

Bonita loves musicians.

Finger's passion in life is music. He loves playing percussion.

Playing percussion is his "thing." And he was completely immersed in it during that concert.

Anything like this is VERY sexy to a woman. A guy completely into what he likes.

If you love what you are doing, you don't need any techniques. Women will be drawn to you automatically. They can feel your glow.

 

[Mr. Fingers]

First of all I´d like to thank you guys for the warm and thought-provoking responses. So many great ideas buzzing here so I will just dive right into this beyatch...

Originally posted by GigaloDJ
The saying should be "Be Yourself, but Improve Yourself".

Not bad. I prefer "Be Your TRUE Self" and for those who ascend to the next level "Become your Higher Self"
*all the stoners raise their spliffs in agreement*

Originally posted by BGD
I think I might be treading thin ice but I want to speak my piece.

You showed so many non-AFC qualities that your post is funny.

There is no ice to tread here. Speak your mind in confindence dude! And you are right, this post was written from a satirical point of view. But I will get into that later..

Originally posted by The N.O.S
That was EXACTLY, what I needed now, Mr.F. It's like somewhat coincidence...

There ARE no coincidences. Glad we could connect!

Originally posted by thecraftylefty
You have to live now to be able to enjoy tomorrow. Sacrifices will, and must, be made. You have to allow yourself to be vulnerable, display emotion, become what you fear to truly "know thyself." At this point confidence, charm, and any of the other things don't even register into the thought process. It culminates into just BE. You simply ARE.

Very well put! This is EXACTLY what I am saying folks. Crafty, you really should post more often. A lot of these fellas could use your guidance.

Originally posted by Paranoid
This site is stifling the freedom of Man by making them follow a set of rules, by telling Man what is right and what is wrong.We are led to believe that AFC behavior is wrong (and yes, the chumphish behavior is wrong to a large extent), that ****y + Funny is the way to go, that one must call a girl 4 days after getting her number (this being slightly flexible as the no. of days ranges from 2-4 depending on the situation).

Let me point out that the rules in and of themselves are not bad. They are designed with the right attitude in mind. The newcomers to this site would do well to follow them just to break their conditioning. But there comes a certain point when you understand that there are no absolutes.

Like One on One posted, you realize there is a program in place and you lose a little bit of your identity by conforming to these rules. "Be yourself" is not as powerful a statement to an AFC as it is to someone who already has the basic rules down.

This post was really intended for the guys who are here and KNOW the tactics and have the mindset. Newbies probably wont benefit as much unless they experience a serious confidence boost in their lives.

This is why I linked the Weapons of Mass Seduction at the beginning, because that was really my foundation, a precursor to where I stand now. I hope this clarifies things a bit.

Originally posted by NINJA PIMP
Do you plan on continuing your experiment indefinitely? No more canned stuff EVER? I am very interested in your reply.

A good question. It is really difficult NOT to use canned stuff. Technically, the stories of your past are "routines" when you think about it.

Onr thing I have noticed is that I have more success when I use canned stuff for openers, particularly when I cant find a situational way to break the ice. (Or am wearing a clean pair of pants) By the time I am IN with my audience, I lfeel more free to let go and yeah, sometimes a routine will get tossed in the mix, but ONLY when the context is right.

This is the real key. Without context you can come off socially retarded and lose your audience quickly. It doesnt mean that you only focus on one aspect of the conversation, you can switch it up, but there should be an undercurrent that connects your ideas.

I notice people really respond to me when I am able to make funny cross-references between the subjects we have covered. Using callback humor shows that you are INTO the conversation yourself, which then pulls your listener in with you.

So my answer is yes, I will use canned material, but mostly for openers and afterwards, very sparingly when the context is right. It is much more fun when you can just FLOW and invent sh!t on the fly.

Originally posted by CLOONEY
So whats happening with "ms. bonita"? you two gonna have a LTR or just go with the flow?

You already know the answer to this!

Originally posted by PuertoRican_Lover
mr fingz - aaahhh u r a percussionist - thats where u get your screen name from or is it from using your fingers to conduct a nefarious activity

i disagree with u when it comes to your uninhibited outlook on who is a wh@re / slut or y should we care attitude - this is your downfall in your thinking and and it severely weakens what would otherwise be some strong arguments for pursuing a woman. wh@res do not have to b chased they just need to b found - i'll explain in depth in another post!

Friends call me Fingers because I am good with my hands. I make art, music, I cook and give incredible massages (or so I am told) and yes, my nefarious skills are also quite effective!

I am glad you disagree with me because it helps me to clarify someting.

My argument is not that we should pursue women. They are so accustomed to this approach that their defenses usually go right up as soon as they smell it (especially the hot ones) My intention is to flip the game and make THEM the pursuers!

As a man, obviously you have to initiate things. You open her, you charm and attract her, but this is the extent of your pursuit. At some point you have to make HER do the chasing! You do this with your body language (not facing her directly at first) Showing initial disinterest and any other way you can convey that you are not easily impressed and she´s gonna have to work for it!

I see guys at clubs entertaining people, telling jokes and being very ALPHA, but at the end of the night they go home alone because they were not able to engage that primitive part of a woman´s mind that wants to be challenged! This is where the C&F, roleplaying push/pull works wonders. You show her your playful side and it is a breath of fresh air to her. But then you pull back and create a vacuum that she cant help but get sucked into.

It is really hard to explain in text because there is so much going on with the subcommunication, body language etc. I tell ya, I feel several posts brewing from the great responses here! Thanks for your input man, made me think...

Originally posted by NINJA PIMP
my point is that Mys and the crew are famous for meeting up with the community and demonstrating their skill. I really love Fingers stuff. It has taken my game to a new plateau, but I dont see him trying to meet anyone here. I could be mistaken, if any of you have met this guy, then please speak up or post a FR.

The same goes for Pook. Great posts, but who here has actually seen him in action? For all we know these guys are just great writers with a firm mental grasp on Game.

You are right, I dont devote NEARLY as much field time to this game as TD or Mys. These guys are PUA MACHINES and will do anything, from magic tricks to dressing in bizarre clothing (peacocking) in order to pull the babes. And thats cool for them, but its totally not ME. I got other priorities in my life that dont allow me to sarge 4 nights a week and do constant approaches, hold workshops, etc. These dudes eat, breathe and sleep pickups! Such a life would never make me happy because I would be letting my dreams go down the tubes.

Bottom line... If you are interested in learning how to lay club bimbos real fast, then yeah I´d say their approach is best. However, if you are looking for someone who is compatible with your lifestyle and ambitions, well then its time to let the REAL YOU shine on that social circle and create the magnetism with your passion and zest for life! It also helps to be as handsome as I am.

BTW, if you are ever in Spain, shoot me an email and we can hang. senorfingers@yahoo.com

 

[Mr. Fingers]

Originally posted by ArnZ
If you love what you are doing, you don't need any techniques. Women will be drawn to you automatically. They can feel your glow.

Word!

Originally posted by Starman
your experiment shouldnt necessarily conclude that people here should just "be themselves" and dispose of the techniques on this forum and just free themselves of social restraints and shackles

There are people(AFC's) on this forum havent achieved this level and dont have that internal sense of stability and self esteem..they dont know who they are, where their going, or how they should act..but a DJ disguised as an AFC is not equal to the AFC who hasnt achieved the level of self worth as a DJ

You are right and I covered this in an earlier response. This post is really dedicated to those who already understand the game and are caught up in the trap of information. This was why I wrote that long introduction and linked it to the WMS stuff. See my response to Paranoid and I think you will see we really are on the same page.

Originally posted by Starman
2ndly, that whole scenario with bonita and "art is an expression that enmeshes souls etc etc"

sounds way too canned (although effective)

3rd , bonita repeatedly told you "I love musicians", could it be possible that fact alone got her to bed you ? along with the social proof? and confidence to get up on stage? and the fans?

I would hardly call that image you presented to bonita as "AFC"

just a thought..great expose btw keep em coming

Canned? LOL. That is really what I believe! Normally I would never go there with someone, but she opened it up by corroborating my beliefs with her talk of "the God within". Context is king my friend!

Yes, I was anything but an AFC with her, which is the satirical essence of this post. Once you are at a point in your life where you are socially adjusted, confident and passionate in what you do, then you are free to break the rules. They are just a rough guideline that you bend according to your intuition. This is also why I mentioned that EXPERIENCE is crucial.

Even the clueless AFC must take action if he wants to be free. Sitting here digesting this stuff wont do jack sh!t for ya if you dont apply it! At one time, I was at that point myself. I would read and read and wonder why I still had no game. Well, DUH! Michael Jordan didnt become the best by reading about basketball!

The real message behind it all is that you can defeat your fears and inhibitions by having FUN experimenting and not taking the role that you play so seriously, which, when you think about it is the crux of the AFCs dilemna!

Feelings of failure, low self image and negativity all stem from someone who is unable to laugh at their mistakes. They are paralyzed from acting because they dont want to look foolish or make a dumb move. It´s just like I said in the Authentic Confidence post...

Laughter = Freedom!

Some food for thought.

 

[legolas]

I have yet to read the whole post, but i have to say that I am shocked!!!

Mr. Fingers, I hope you won't mind if I borrow your writing style, I have a bestseller to write

 

[divega]

Dammmmmmmnn. Fantastic post. It made sense of various conflicting mentalities and put more truths on the table.

This site has lots of advice, but following them almost seemed mechanical. A lot of it works, but none of the posts had brought me as much satisfaction as this one. That "be yourself" stuff... I could tell how some would see it destructive, but it also seemed to have some salvation within it.
So to truly "be yourself" you have to strip down all the baggage, and all of the junk that was formed over time to actually reveal the true self.

Good job man. Always enjoy your posts.

 

[much2learn]

artistic aptitude and creativity

Ok so a follow-up question to Sr. Fingers would be, what about those of us who are not gifted artistically? What if we're not the creative type at all?

Yes, you can still have freedom whether you are creative or not, I don't dispute that.

But you place heavy emphasis on creativity, which not everyone possesses.

 

[Mr. Fingers]

legolas,

as usual, my lawyer will be contacting you


divega,

Cheers for the kind words and insight.. I liked your analogy of "stripping away the baggage"... nice!


much2learn,

Just because you are not in touch with your creativity does not mean it does not exist within you!

One thing life has taught me is that you can be creative in ANYTHING you do. As long as you approach it from a level of curiosity coupled with passion.

Creativity is just a fancy word for constructive playfulness. With discpiline it becomes honed into an Art Form.

Surely you are good at something, you just dont realize it yet. Start to take up hobbies and see what natural gifts you have.

A quote from one of my previous posts...

THE PATH OF THE ARTIST

Now I am not saying you need to go out and become a rockstar or anything. We all have our strengths and weaknesses and I don't expect anyone to conform to my areas of interest. I am just saying that you must elevate whatever you do to an art form! One of the best ways to have natural confidence is to be passionate about what you do, and do it well!

I will never forget the summer of '92. I was volunteering with a local church in Mexico, helping to build houses for poverty-stricken families. I met this cool dude named Chuck who was a bit of a veteran of these expeditions. He taught me alot about building houses and just being a generally handy guy. We were starting from scratch, so the first step was to dig out gaping craters in the earth to lay down the foundation. We didn't have a budget for bulldozers so it took like 30 volunteers to get the job done. I have never shoveled so much!

After just one day, my hands were covered in blisters and I actually had to stop. I could not help but admire Chuck, who was skinnier and shorter than me, yet barely broke a sweat and managed to shovel out twice as much dirt in half the time. What perplexed me even more than this was the fact that while he was not good-looking at all (bad acne and a BIG hawk-nose), all the girls had crushes on him. Of course I was the guy they confided in because I was "one of the girls" back then (argh!!!)

Their attraction baffled me because not only was he not handsome, but he would barely speak more than two words to them! He just exuded a very strong presence. One day I got up the nerve and asked him what his secret was. He stopped what he was doing and looked me in the eye and said,

"Mr. Fingers, there is no secret. I just love what I do so much that nothing else matters to me. I am in my own world when I work, time is irrelevant and my mind is free from encumbering thoughts. I am simply happy to be doing this job!"

I was blown away by this attitude and in the following weeks we became great friends. He taught me so many valuable lessons, but most importantly, he made me realize the reason why I wanted to be an artist. It was because art/music was the one thing that put my frantic mind to rest. I could play music for hours and become so totally immersed in what I was DOING that I simply stopped THINKING.

It is my sincerest wish that you would learn this lesson for yourself! If you are unsure where your talent lies, try to remember anything that interested you as a child, something you were always naturally good at, or think of someone you admired. Doesn't matter how silly it may seem, just travel deep within yourself and find that one thing (there is probably more than one!) you can do that makes you forget where you are, what time it is, etc.

If you truly believe you have no talent, you need to look deeper my friend. It is crazy how many people I know that are so talented and don't even know it! Some are great with numbers, others good at listening and interpreting, others are wizards in the kitchen, but since it doesn't fit the mold of what talent is in their minds, they discredit themselves.

They fail to understand that you become an artist when you get in tune with your inner calling and make it a major focus of your life. If you ever think that your talent is worthless or stupid, just think of Chuck, the man who made an art form of digging ditches!

Basically find something that you truly enjoy and just run with it!

This principle applies to your approach with women as well. Seduction is also an artform you know!

Hope this helps bud.

 

[Kineti[C]harm]

The problem is that people are so friggin tied up on systems and techniques... There is no ONE SYSTEM... You have to act according to the girls personality. Some girls will really fall for the abit shy, looking down kinda guy that seems like this really cute and innocent dude that does not mean though that they won't fall for raw attraction and charm but still. Charm isn't defined.

 

[legolas]

Fingz,

I'm reading your message again. It is still amazing, but in the end I'm finding that you are starting to sound and think a lot like the Pook lately. If you read his latest stuff, it's all about the philosophy of creating these worlds in poeople's heads and making them irresistable. I't beginning to come all together for me.

 

[Mr. Fingers]

Originally posted by legolas
Fingz,

I'm reading your message again. It is still amazing, but in the end I'm finding that you are starting to sound and think a lot like the Pook lately. If you read his latest stuff, it's all about the philosophy of creating these worlds in poeople's heads and making them irresistable. I't beginning to come all together for me.

I havent read any of Pooks latest work, but judging from his quote in your sig, you have misinterpreted things a little.

I don´t think it´s a matter of generating worlds in other people´s heads, for this hinges on their perception of you...

Rather, I believe that the real goal is to create a reality free from the weight of external perceptions. When you do something that you genuinely LOVE, you exude pure magnetism and people are drawn into the realm you have created. They see the freedom and inspiration of your world and they just want to be a part of it.

It doesnt necessarily have to be something typically "artistic" either. There is an art to just BEING and relating to the world that naturally draws people in. Thats CHARISMA, baby!

Ya feel me?

 

[legolas]

Actually Pook is quite different from what my signature says. I only collected the stuff I thought was good for me. DeepBlue also thought along the same lines. I will put in some more relevant quotes later. Now I gotta run.

 

[chlywly]

Fingers my friend once again you're right on, right on your journal of self realisation, the very journy that realises IT.. IT being your life, being GOD Being the divine paradox and duality of all things, thats the 'balance' isn't it wonderful? Makes me want to burst out laughing.

I'm very happy to see a brother "knowing thyself" and at the same time expressing it so eloquently.

Love.

 

[legolas]

Originally posted by legolas
Actually Pook is quite different from what my signature says. I only collected the stuff I thought was good. DeepBlue also thought along the same lines. I will put in some more relevant quotes later. Now I gotta run.

Here is a far batter quote from Pook's reply:

We can argue which 'worlds' are more appealing to others with the women (a crazy spontaneos world or a more stable less risk world or such). But one thing that is very true is that women, above anything else, desire the guy to be himself, to show his world properly.

he may not know what she wants. But she DOES know that YOU ought to
know what you want.

She will 'fall in love' with a guy, become intermeshed in his world, and his goals often become hers. It is not so much sovereignty she wants but a guy's world.

"But Pook! Let us say we compare a super rich wimpy guy to the ****y *******! The ******* will get the girl! Thus, you make no sense!"

But the ass-hole guys has 'confidence'.

What is confidence but the LINK between your world and yourself, between your DREAM and DAY?

Guys with no confidence can create no worlds. She will see the wimpy rich guy and think how she can use him, not love him.

Like a child, women want to be seized and shown the glories of life. She is expecting you to take her hand and whisk her away to adventures, excitement, and fun, a world of color compared to her boring bland arena of Nature she resides in now.

And this is how you become Prince Charming.

Here's another one

A good analogy would be a magician amazing his audience. Women want their own magician (and will get BORED if you ruin the mystery of the whys and hows behind you).

By creating your OWN world, which is your own dreams and desires, the magic never stops. She will feel like Cinderella and you become her prince, rescuing her from the realm of drudgery and boredom, to give her a world of wonder through her Don Juan.

Is that better?

Good...

 

[Mr. Fingers]

Great quotes from the Pook.

Thank you.

 

[Paid Laid & Made]

Me too, your post depressed me, lol JK. I can't wait to give it a try and see the difference, this is definitely bible material. Great Post, can't wait to read your other's.

 

[Biphoria]

truly amazing post along with wms/friendship zone.
Pook's "Kill that Desperation" was truly motivating for me. I was never an afc, I had a sort of natural game that worked but that post just opened my eyes and blew me out of the water. I have since then been very succesful with the ladies and now, after reading your posts. I am once again moved. I have decided to finally get off my @$$ and get to living life. I am also going to take up the flute or piano to touch my artistic side a bit. Thank you very much Senor Fingerz, you have just pointed me in a general direction of a much more enjoyable and fantastic life.
Thank you!

 

[Evil-Rom]

Wow Fingz, it's like you read my mind.

I was just thinking what it would be like if I took on the AFC mentality again, but then you post this masterpiece...

Bravo!

 

[Ricky]

Everything in life has a formula, it is an action-reaction world. Some things you do prompt a better reaction.

If a girl is single, which both of these girls were, they might respond to any attention.

The difference is with the school teacher

1) He had rapport! He got this from day one in the classroom
2) He had social proof. Believe it or not a classroom of laughing kids and the good feelings it produced are a type of social proof.
3) He showed status out the wazoo! His status in the classroom is legendary, the kids think he is a star. They probably mention his names a few times after that day. But the real status was demonstrated at the club. Furthermore he demonstrated
4) VALUE! Yes that status leads to feeling of values
5) Common interests- They both love music. She is attracted to artistic types. This all strengthens the rapport.

What I am finding out is the following:

1) We all want the hottest girls, but if they don't interest us then why bother trying to get rapport. This teacher sounds like a class act, the type that is worth dating and laying!
2) Why force rapport with a girl you don't like? Fingers knows this is not good also, that's why he ditched the coffee girl! It takes a true DJ to be strong enough to listen to his gut instinct
3) If you can build rapport, that is the most important initial technique. DJ techniques are important for building the relationship. It is definitely a given that as a DJ you will take action in the case you are interested in a girl.
Congrats Fingers!

 

[DDV]

...

BUMP