"Shame the whole alpha male thing only works passively now"

[PeeGee]

My friend and I were discussing this dilemma I had about a girl. I lamented that instead of me, she is now dating somebody 8 years younger (and 3 years younger than her) than I am, and somebody who I could, without even trying, completely demolish, as in beat the crap out of.

(My scenario is more complicated than that, and I know that given a normal situation where two people compete over one girl, the first person to make a move tends to win out)

Now, I was being facetious/joking when I mentioned I could beat him up without trying. I'm never going to beat up a guy in order to get with a girl (beat up a guy who was hurting a girl, yes) of course, but the idea of exerting a genuine alpha dominance isn't as explicit as it used to be. Oddly, my mother told me this past weekend that once upon a time, men would fight/kill each other over women. That's the sort of dominance I am referring to when I was joking. Or another example is my joke about sapping her with my club and dragging her to my cave.

My friend's wording was that due to civility, we can't exert our dominance over others/females. His example is that tall, beefy guys might have problems finding women if they lack civility. Considering this forum has a section on health/fitness, where people attempt to better themselves by being more muscular, plus that I had a huge (250+ lbs) roommate once who never had problems with girls, I don't really know whether his claim is accurate. It might be situationally accurate, but the problem would not be due to the physical superiority of such men as much as it is their game.

Either way, what do you think about the idea that alpha dominance still has to acquiesce to some degree of civility? I'm not full force manly but I am very no-nonsense in my interactions. Does being 'too manly' become an hindrance -- not being many enough certainly is. Also, less seriously, do you think it'd be better if we went back to more cavemen-ish days?

 

[KontrollerX]

I think we have to stop worrying about the what ifs and worry more about the what is.

And the what is currently is that there are laws that will cause you to go to prison for assault and battery and if you are very much stronger than this kid you could go too far and kill him and end up with a life sentence.

As for the girl you didn't make it clear whether you two were together in the past or not but in anycase if she previously was your girl or at the very least aware of your interest in her and she has in one of these two scenarios turned away from you for this guy then she is missing out.

She has made it known that she is worthless for your life.

Like Anti Dump's machine basically says don't worry about the girl's that aren't interested in you.

You don't want to go after them anyway as even if you can convince one to get with you desire to be with you that comes with no effort tends to last longer than any you have to generate through effort.

 

[ready123]

what's your definition of alpha dominance? being able to physically force people to do whatever you want?

or genuine internal fortitude

and what your mom told you hasn't been a social norm for over a century, it's like yearning for old times you never even experienced

 

[Master Bates]

Exactly what are you asking? if we should be able to kill and maim people for whatever we want, including women?

 

[PeeGee]

It's a silly question of course. I'm asking what the line is in terms of how truly alpha you can be now and still get away with it. Clearly we can't go around clubbing women, but we can still be manly, but how much so?

The Mature forums managed to answer my question to so degree and worries me that society is further emasculating men, and they are letting it happen.

 

[ready123]

whats your definition of manly?

do you think a rapist is manly because he exerts his dominance on others?

on that note, can you make a distinction between alpha male dominance and sociopathy?

 

[connor32]

alpha dominance is not just who's the strongest. alpha dominance is who is the most healthy,intelligent,resourceful,influential.....etc.

 

[oakraiderz2]

People fight over resources when theyre scarce. Hence a fellow that doesnt get girls will feel more threatened and act more aggressively if "his" girl is being "stolen" away from him. I have a friend who seems to be no nonsense when it comes to female interections too, but the problem with that is taking it too seriously. You dont need to flex your muscle all the time, only when its necessary. Overcompensation is detrimental...

 

[jcap]

you are a loser.

women choose men if they are alpha enough
men aren't the intial choosers.

you purely are less alpha then the kid 8 years younger then you since the girl passed by you in the first place


try doing some more 5 lb curls LOL

 

[BadsnakeUK]

Alpha-dominance involves being the leader of the group. This requires social skill (civility). A man who can talk down an escalating situation is far more alpha than one who loses it and beats the crap out of someone. Yes there's a time for being able to physically protect someone but this very rarely occurs. Besides, trying to be alpha only ever comes across as try-hard, not genuine. Its overcompensating, which shows insecurity.

 

[I.A.F.Y.B.]

Alpha is making the decision, taking lead, being first when it comes to trying something, standing up for yourself and ect. Not your body language, strength or muscle.

 

[Jeffst1980]

"Alpha-dominance involves being the leader of the group. This requires social skill (civility). A man who can talk down an escalating situation is far more alpha than one who loses it and beats the crap out of someone. Yes there's a time for being able to physically protect someone but this very rarely occurs. Besides, trying to be alpha only ever comes across as try-hard, not genuine. Its overcompensating, which shows insecurity."


^^Exactly (damn, I gotta learn how to do that fancy quoting thing on here).

In terms of competition for women, I feel FAR less threatened by the "alpha" overreactive dumb jock than by the passive-aggressive 130 lb weasel. The former always comes off looking like a desperate creep, whereas the latter can somehow push your buttons and make your girl lose respect for you if you're not careful. Of course, neither one is worthy of emulation.

Physical domination alone really doesn't enter into the equation of being alpha--at least in civilized times. I hate to mention "48 Laws of Power," but it's a perfect example of alpha behavior throughout history. Was Napolean alpha? Yes. Could the men he was leading into battle kick the crap out of him? Yes. The fact that, despite this, he still earned their respect and blind devotion (until he stopped being alpha and became too reactive) proves that he was a powerful man. Or, in modern times--who is more alpha: The boxer that just won the title fight or the promoter that got him to risk his health so that he could profit off of him?

Being "too manly" by your definition (i.e. resorting to physical violence to get girls) is actually not being very manly at all. In the same way that issuing an ultimatum is an expression of powerlessness, unnecessary violent behavior is an expression of a lack of true confidence. Remember: Attraction is all about making the woman come to YOU, which is why overt displays of interest work against us.

 

[Bonafide]

Dude, who fights over girls? Ever since I was a little kid I thought fighting over girls was stupid.

 

[MooseGod]

Being an alpha male isn't being the baddest mofo in the club--that's for the insecure pussies with a chip on their shoulder. It's about knowing how to pick your battles and not giving up if it's something important to you.

"Indomitable spirit" is a phrase that comes to mind.

 

[Quiksilver]

I agree with part of what you said.

It's true--and sad--that most of what constitutes 'alpha male' behavior these days in the eyes of girls is really just smoke & mirrors. Bluffing, if you will.

However, when push comes to shove, that's when the real men come out to play. You'll find out through university that most guys who appear 'alpha male' are really just slick talkers and somewhat witty. Steal his girl from under his nose, and he'll try to make you look bad. The easy counter for that b.s. is to treat him like a child--indifferent and condescending--and whatever comes out of his mouth as worthless. It may sound a little arrogant, but after a while at clubs, bars and parties you learn how to be truly dominant:

friends = protect them and lead them
strangers = be indifferent towards them
'threats' = they are subservient


MooseGod spoke some wisdom there. Pick your battles. In other words, know exactly what you want and need. If something or someone is important to you, then your path is easy; fight for it.

That being said, personally I wouldn't fight over any girl I've dated so far in my life, probably never. I'm not so desperate or primitive that I would go out of my way to have a girl. All I do is leave the door open, its her choice whether to come into my life or not.