"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

Read more...

Semantics..."hanging out"

ARrocket

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
1,411
Reaction score
37
Location
East Coast USA
I often use the words "hang out" to a girl I wanna get together with...this may not seem like a big issue, but I was wondering what your thoughts on that are? Hopefully that doesn't bring about too friendly of a mindset. It hasn't really seemed like an issue in the past, but you would you guys advise against that?
 

"She Made Her Decision Before You Finished Your Sentence"

Three seconds. That's how long it took. Your shoes. Your posture. The way you held your drink. Whether you looked at the floor or looked at her.

She already filed you away. Interesting. Boring. Safe. Bold. Before you even opened your mouth.

Everything you say after that is just her confirming what she already decided.

So stop rehearsing lines. Fix the first three seconds. Stand tall. Look up. Smile like you mean it. Walk like you belong wherever you're standing.

The words come later. The impression comes first.

Read more...

Yuma

Don Juan
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
107
Reaction score
6
Location
North Carolina
Personally, I think it depends on the type of girl you're trying to get with. I've met some girls who get turned off by the word 'date' and would rather just 'hang out' and see what happens. But, like I said, it depends on the girl. No rule book for this one, really. Just your own intuition.

But, yeah. There's nothing wrong with 'hang out', since it all means the same thing. One's just more formal than the other. The means justify the end, no matter which way you look at it. Body language conveys more than spoken language does. And any girl who is on the same page with you at this point in the game will know what you mean.
 

Wodinart

Don Juan
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
The best way of avoiding this if you're getting hung up over it is simply not to use the words "hang out" or "date" at all- if possible. I've had a lot of success in the last month or so simply turning up at rooms of girls in my college who I like, telling them I'm going somewhere and asking them if they want to come with me. Everything's so much more spontaneous that way- surely a good thing, right? I'm assuming from your age that you're at uni too, try it and let us know how it goes.

If the girl isn't on your doorstep then the above approach clearly isn't an option. The way I look at it though, if she gets wound up over a minute difference in phraseology, she's probably either

a) not that interested. Next her, or keep building attraction.

and/or b) not worth your time.

Wodinart
 

Lexington

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Messages
1,244
Reaction score
71
The girl will know exactly what your intentions are if you set it up right. Remember, it's not what you say, but how you say it. If you're interacting with her in a friend frame, she will interpret "hang out" to mean just that. However, if you're interacting with her as boyfriend/lover/fvck buddy material, she'll understand that it's a date type interaction. Girls might not be the brightest creatures, but they're smart enough to pickup on these things!

Rather than say "let's hang out sometime," it's better to come out with a specific plan. That way you're avoiding any kind of ambiguity and you're taking the initiative as you should. So maybe just say something like "come over and watch a movie with me" or "let's get some drinks at [insert bar here]."

Notice that I didn't phrase them as questions. You should ask it as though you expect her to come. The implication is that it would be weird if she said no. If you ask her permission, you come off as submissive. By "asking" with a statement, you display a lot more confidence.
 

Swashbuckler

Don Juan
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
81
Reaction score
1
You could try saying to a girl 'I want to see you again," or like the above "Come with" Those are effective terms that don't have the friendly tones.
 

"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"

Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.

You've been "getting ready" for two years.

She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.

Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.

Read more...

Amazing

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Messages
645
Reaction score
17
Age
44
Location
ATL
yeah, i texted a girl to hang out last night and she said "I don't even know anything about you!"

To me it meant we go for a drink, to her she thought I was goign to come and f her.
 

Wodinart

Don Juan
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
Swashbuckler said:
You could try saying to a girl 'I want to see you again," or like the above "Come with" Those are effective terms that don't have the friendly tones.
"I want to see you again" sounds very AFC to me. It's the girl who should be constantly thinking about seeing YOU again- you should have other things do to with your time, like spinning other plates and doing what you enjoy(no pun intended;)). "I want to see you again" is a frame that hands all the power to the girl and will get you friendzoned in no time. With the "come with" line, you are inviting the HB into your world, to do things you enjoy on your terms. This position is infinitely stronger.


Wodinart
 

Tiguere

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
1,036
Reaction score
85
I wanna see you again doesn't sound bad. Remember what counts is the tone of voice, posture and kino-ing her while saying it. Nothing sounds AFC and nothing sounds DJ ....its all about the delivery.
 

Amazing

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Messages
645
Reaction score
17
Age
44
Location
ATL
Tiguere said:
I wanna see you again doesn't sound bad. Remember what counts is the tone of voice, posture and kino-ing her while saying it. Nothing sounds AFC and nothing sounds DJ ....its all about the delivery.
We live in a world of text
 

ARrocket

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
1,411
Reaction score
37
Location
East Coast USA
Amazing said:
We live in a world of text
This is true...a lot of people on this forum are strictly against texting to set up these "hang outs" but I don't see a problem with it, especially with college/high school aged kids. I'm 20 and the girls I interact with are around the same age.

But yeah, I see what you guys are saying, and it makes sense!
 

"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

Read more...

Atom Smasher

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
8,657
Reaction score
6,614
Age
69
Location
The 7th Dimension
I've always been against the "let's hang out" mentality, but I am older than you guys. I suppose you can get away with it as a late teenager or in your early twenties, but later on that phrase becomes a real negative.

A woman wants a man to take contol and command. I usually decide to do something first, and then tell her, "I'm going to such-and-such this saturday. Why don't you come on out with me". I just set up (via e-mail) a date with a woman by saying, "I see you and I spending a day at {insert amusement park here}, and then in the evening going over to the stadium to watch {insert band here}. If you're interested, let me know.

That was 3 weeks ago, and I'm still waiting for her reply. Just kidding! She immediately said she would love to go.

That conveys a take-charge., masculine presence. "Let's hang out sometime" is weak, weak, weak by comparison.
 

ARrocket

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
1,411
Reaction score
37
Location
East Coast USA
I agree with you Atom Smasher, saying "let's hang out sometime" is way too vague and just all around horrible. I was talking more in terms of "let's hang out Saturday, I wanna (insert place, idea, etc)."
 

Amazing

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Messages
645
Reaction score
17
Age
44
Location
ATL
ARrocket said:
I agree with you Atom Smasher, saying "let's hang out sometime" is way too vague and just all around horrible. I was talking more in terms of "let's hang out Saturday, I wanna (insert place, idea, etc)."

That was my implication too, I hope nobody is just saying "lets hang out" you gotta at least give a suggestion, worst comes to worst "lets grab a movie and chill"


The whole "I'll be here at X, if you want to come" thing can work, but you need comfort first or you gonna be showing up alone to a lot of places.
 

handle

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 18, 2005
Messages
893
Reaction score
108
**** semantics. If you're doing your job it'll be obvious what you mean. Body language, tone of conversation, etc.
 
Top