Self Defense Classes

[Bible_Belt]

Learning martial arts for self-defense is bullsh*t....Apples and oranges. Strawman argument. My points remain standing, thank you very much.

Of all the guys I've ever trained with, I've never seen or even heard of any of them losing a street fight. It's always ridiculously one-sided, even though the fight is without rules and sometimes even against multiple attackers. The also usually don't get into legal trouble. If you can quickly and quietly knock a guy out before making a big scene, it's much easier to slip out the door before the cops arrive.

Deep Dish, whatever your career or area of expertise is, I can tell you that you're going to be better at it than me. Why? Because of you've had training and experience that I haven't. Fighting is not any different. Training makes you accumulate skill, which is why there have been dedicated martial artists for all of human history.

 

[Deep Dish]

Of all the guys I've ever trained with, I've never seen or even heard of any of them losing a street fight. It's always ridiculously one-sided, even though the fight is without rules and sometimes even against multiple attackers. The also usually don't get into legal trouble. If you can quickly and quietly knock a guy out before making a big scene, it's much easier to slip out the door before the cops arrive.

I have no doubt with the effectiveness of the martial arts with street fights, but I do however have a problem with the cost/benefit ratio analysis, which is the thrust of my argument. I've studied criminology and street violence is relatively rare: statistically speaking, if someone is going to hurt you, it will most likely be by you, secondly followed by your friends and family, with strangers comprising a distant third. As long as someone chooses their friends wisely, and if they have the measured temperament/social skills to diffuse conflicts, the chances of violence with a stranger is rare. As Penn & Teller point out, the chances of injury from martial arts, which is 100% with an average four injuries a year, is 220 times greater than falling victim to a crime. And while I have no statistics for fights in bars or clubs, I would say the chances of being innocent victim to a fight for which you did not stir trouble is relatively rare (though it does sometimes happen), with the chances largely mediated on your temperament and social grace. My point is risk management, conflict management, preventions of violence, should be the real focus of self-defense, whereas fight management is myopic.

 

[metoo]

google for "Masutatsu Oyama", look at photos of him cutting the neck off of a beer bottle, leaving the rest of the bottle standing on a table, and TELL me you still "think" that a grappler can just "take down" such a man. The UFC has ALWAYS had "gentlemen's agreements" about how they aren't going to cripple each other in 1/2 second (as they would if if was REAL) Nobody would PAY to see this, so the grappling thing is where it's at. It CONTROLS how much you get hurt, and it takes long enough, in most cases, to keep the crowds coming and paying money. it's NOT better than striking/kicking, friend. It's sometimes needed when the deck is slippery, or when it's dark, tho.

If you get ANY serious injuries in a year of training, you need a different instructor. Sure, lots of lumps and sprains, so what? I've never had the slightest problem disabling untrained people. it's VERY easy, compared to serious sparring with trained men. Untrained people are slow and helpless, really. However, you basically can't GET the sort of training in the US that I got in Korea (1972) such an instructor would get sued of business, basically. Also, it would cost you about $10,000. are you willing and able to spend that much, along with 6 hours a week of HARD work? If not, the "training" that you get won't amount to much.

 

[Gaucho]

There are no 'gentlemens agreements' in MMA, there are rules.

These BS, super efficient killer type guys are just that, BS.

 

[Rubirosa]

“Let's say I got into a fight at a club and I took a guy down.” What are the chances of getting into a fight in a bar or club, unless, that is, you're the one stirring trouble? The chances of injury from martial arts, which is 100%, four injuries a year, far outweigh the microscopically small chances of being an innocent victim of a fight.

Deep Dish is actually right. Esp. with a martial arts class like boxing, even getting concussed a few times can literally affect you mentally later in life and greatly increase your risk of Parkinson's and dementia.

In my life I've seen 80% of fights were initiated in an alcoholic setting. And they were usually arguments over extremely trivial sh!t that wouldn't be important if everyone wasn't drunk. These can be avoided if parties involved knew how to control their alcohol...

The other 20% of fights was in elementary school and usually involved one person hitting another in the face and running away.

If you like martial arts as an enjoyable hobby and you can derive confidence from it then go ahead do it. But there are safer, easier better ways to both prevent fights and to resolve them.

The question is do you really want to do MMA because of "self defense" or are you in another tough guy, tapout guy mentality, that a lot of people actually join MMA for.

Speaking for myself, I put myself though the pain not because I want to get into a fight, but because I don't want to back down from a threat. I would much rather "talk it out" than start throwing blows over some trivial crap, but it's been my experience that the world in full of a-holes and that they will always seek out those who they feel they can push around. A big problem with some Martial Arts however, is that they teach technique without preparing the person to have the mental toughness of dealing with an actual combat situation.

 

[Bible_Belt]

http://www.suntimes.com/9261611-417/mugger-chooses-wrong-victim-ultimate-fighting-champ.html
(link includes mug shot photo of mugger's messed-up face)

Mugger picks wrong victim: MMA fighter

SUN-TIMES MEDIA WIRE December 5, 2011

A would-be mugger on Chicago’s Southwest Side picked on the wrong person — a mixed-martial artist — and ended up with two black eyes and a gunshot wound to the ankle, the police say.

Police say 24-year-old Anthony Miranda walked up to a parked car near 55th and Kenneth around 11:30 p.m. Friday and asked the driver — whose identity was not released by police­­ — for a lighter.

When the driver said he didn’t have one, the police say Miranda pulled a handgun on the driver and demanded money. After getting some, he ordered the driver out of the car, Officer John Mirabelli said.

The mugging victim was able to get control of the gun, and the two wrestled, with Miranda accidentally firing his gun and shooting himself in the ankle during the fight, Mirabelli said.

The victim, who told police he’s a mixed-martial artist, held Miranda down until the police and found Miranda with a face full of cuts and two black eyes. He was taken to Holy Cross Hospital for treatment.

Miranda, a convicted felon, was charged with armed robbery and aggravated discharge of a firearm and rdered held on $350,000 bail. Records show he has several convictions, including one for a residential burglary.

 

[metoo]

you may be right about most, but you aint right about ME, punk, and you surely have no IDEA what men like Oyama can do.

 

[Gaucho]

Speaking for myself, I put myself though the pain not because I want to get into a fight, but because I don't want to back down from a threat. I would much rather "talk it out" than start throwing blows over some trivial crap, but it's been my experience that the world in full of a-holes and that they will always seek out those who they feel they can push around. A big problem with some Martial Arts however, is that they teach technique without preparing the person to have the mental toughness of dealing with an actual combat situation.

And herein lies the problem with the academic solution to trying to 'defuse' the situation. MANY who pick on others, find the weakest, those who they know won't react with aggression. As you put it, they will always seek out 'those they feel they can push around'.

Self defence teaches you to be calm in the face of oncoming danger and to hold good posture regardless of whether it will transpire into a fight. This alone, will be a lot more useful than simply trying to perform some type of negotiation with somebody who is looking for easy prey.

 

[Gaucho]

you may be right about most, but you aint right about ME, punk, and you surely have no IDEA what men like Oyama can do.

lol, not only an internet tough guy, but a deadly punk, whose skills can only be learned in the 'East'. Reminds me of reading the adds in a 1969 copy of "Ring Magazine". Unfortunately, the world is educated kid and your clips are just that, youtube and magic.

 

[metoo]

I never said such skills can only be learned in asia, but they come a lot CHEAPER there, with a lot more real deal instructors. I've carried a gun since 1968, I just learned the karate to give myself the option of punishing punks like you without a trial over a dead body, that's all. I"ve been casting my own bullets and reloading my own ammo since 1969, doing my own gunsmithing since 1978 (Army, colleges, and shooting got in the way, or it wo;uld have happened much sooner). Nobody who knows me considers me to be anything but "tough", punk.

 

[AAAgent]

Again if you work out to become big at the gym, a desperate mugger would look for an easier target then you.

If someone were to mug you they will probably use a gun so its best to give him your wallet if he is already pointing a weapon at you. Nobody really uses knives anymore unless its rapists in alleyways in which case you are safe. Also common sense dictate that's its best not to walk alone in a bad part of town after dark.

I think the danger in urban setting is to be attacked by a group of people. Best bet is to also work on your cardio so not only you can run fast but also that you won't get tired quickly as you escape.

This had me cracking up so bad lol. Glad i can run.

I think martial arts has lost its way through mainstream media. Nowadays everyone wants to learn martial arts to defend themselves and by defend themselves they mean beat the other person's ass until they are defenseless. There seems to always be very little emphasis on diffusing the situation now. I grew up having anger problems as my father was abusive.

I've been in lots of fights growing up and all of them was because i couldn't control my temper. Only one of those fights actually was justified as the person was drunk and almost killed my friend and even that fight which I defended my friend in, put me in jail for 2 days and cost me over $7,000 in bail and lawyer fees (i won the case).

I've been in over 20 fights in my life and only 1 out of the twenty really couldn't be diffused as the guy was drunk.

Learn to protect yourself and learn when to use it. I want to learn martial arts as a way to protect myself but more as a way to conquer self control which i lack severely.

My father always taught me to never let anyone pick on me and if they were going to beat me up to take something, that they could but they would get a black eye in the process. Now imagine if that black eye was a finger, hand or leg. When you're mind set of self defense is to fight the other guy you open yourself to also getting hurt.

Intimidation is a HUGE factor in fights. There have been many times where my anger/forwardness frightens people. Also there have been times where my calmness in the face of opposition frightened people. My physique and height have also made people think twice about fighting me.

None of any of that matters when an un-educated fool with a gun fires it at you. Fighting is a last resort that i've come to learn from first hand experience. I've always been worried about that next guy that tries to act like mr tough guy to me and i attempt to fight him and he pulls out a gun.

 

[metoo]

Hold a coin at waist height. Drop it and notice how long it takes to hit the floor. It's about .55 second. I can drop such a coin with the hand that "clears" my shirt, get my gun out and fire it, before the coin hits the ground. Moving that fast, I can't reliably hit a man's torso further away than arm's length, but I only need to add about .15 second, and I can hit him relliably at 10 ft of distance. If you start some crap, better be VERY close to him and END it in less than 1/2 second. At the very least, you have to make him "wobbly" that quickly.

A trained man's strikes and kicks have 3-5x the power YOU currently have with such moves. The trained man has the ability and knowledge to LAND those strikes in the most vulnerable/effective places, too, making him 10-20x better able to end a fight in a fraction of a second. However, such training is quite rare/expensive here in the US.

 

[Gaucho]

I never said such skills can only be learned in asia, but they come a lot CHEAPER there, with a lot more real deal instructors. I've carried a gun since 1968, I just learned the karate to give myself the option of punishing punks like you without a trial over a dead body, that's all. I"ve been casting my own bullets and reloading my own ammo since 1969, doing my own gunsmithing since 1978 (Army, colleges, and shooting got in the way, or it wo;uld have happened much sooner). Nobody who knows me considers me to be anything but "tough", punk.

hahahaha.

:flowers:

 

[iwanttofight]

Hey f28300000, I fight mma professionaly. I have lived with a couple of very famous mma stars. I haved train in the martial arts since I was 7. Go to a mma gym. You pay one set price for like $90 dollars a month and you can train all the different styles of martial arts you like. Most gyms have boxing, mma, bjj, wrestling, and muay thai. You will get a very good well rounded workout.

 

[SharinganUser]

I never said such skills can only be learned in asia, but they come a lot CHEAPER there, with a lot more real deal instructors. I've carried a gun since 1968, I just learned the karate to give myself the option of punishing punks like you without a trial over a dead body, that's all. I"ve been casting my own bullets and reloading my own ammo since 1969, doing my own gunsmithing since 1978 (Army, colleges, and shooting got in the way, or it wo;uld have happened much sooner). Nobody who knows me considers me to be anything but "tough", punk.

You have no idea what you are talking about. The high quality instructors in Asia can cost you up to $100 usd per day. Monthly training can be as high as $1500 usd.

 

[metoo]

in Japan, maybe. In 1972, I trained under 5th Dan MooDukKwan instructor Moon Hyo Kun in Korea, for $10 a month. You need to look around, dude, you are being raked over the coals. $40 an hour will buy FINE small class instruction right here in the US.

 

[f283000]

Hey f28300000, I fight mma professionaly. I have lived with a couple of very famous mma stars. I haved train in the martial arts since I was 7. Go to a mma gym. You pay one set price for like $90 dollars a month and you can train all the different styles of martial arts you like. Most gyms have boxing, mma, bjj, wrestling, and muay thai. You will get a very good well rounded workout.

Thanks for this. I started looking into this yesterday and found places in my area.

My only question is it better to go to a place like an mma gym where you can sort of an "all you can eat" of martial arts or is it better to go to a place that focuses on just 1 martial art?

 

[SharinganUser]

in Japan, maybe. In 1972, I trained under 5th Dan MooDukKwan instructor Moon Hyo Kun in Korea, for $10 a month. You need to look around, dude, you are being raked over the coals. $40 an hour will buy FINE small class instruction right here in the US.

I am not getting raked over anything you retard, I don't pay those kinds of fee's. But that doesn't change the fact that it is expensive to train over here with top level instructors.

You paid $10 a month in a war torn impoverished country 40 years ago. Good for you grandpa. But soda's don't cost a nickel and Black people aren't forced to sit at the back of the bus anymore.

If you are paying $40 an hour then it's YOU that's getting raked over the coals. You can take a good judo class for $40 a month, and it's a fairly common price in North America.

 

[Chamber36]

Thanks for this. I started looking into this yesterday and found places in my area.

My only question is it better to go to a place like an mma gym where you can sort of an "all you can eat" of martial arts or is it better to go to a place that focuses on just 1 martial art?

If you focus on 1 martial art you'll always have a weakness. If you start with MMA you'll be a well-rounded fighter.

Martial arts like Judo, Jiu jitsu and Aikido are more for self-perfection than for self-defense and you'd only really realisitically need to know those technical things if you expose yourself to danger alot, or if you're a bouncer or a cop. They're also much harder to learn if you're older than 16.

I advise you to do MMA. If you don't want to practice groundwork, just do boxing or kickboxing. They're the most fun.

 

[metoo]

you wn't get decent small class instruction, for long, for much less than $40 an hour, I can guarantee that. YOu can learn some dancing, in big classes, for $5 an hour, tho, which is what I suspect you 'know". Mma is much too spread out complex for a beginner. just cause you START in karate or judo does NOT mean that you have to NEVER learn anything else, you know. What an idiot you are to suggest that is the case.