Sanford PD braces itself for Zimmerman riots

[Jaylan]

The trainer testimony wont matter to the jury. They arent stupid. They can see that present day fat Zimmerman isnt the same thinner and in shape guy that shot Martin. Do they really expect the jury to buy that some skinny teenage kid was in that much better shape than he was? He looked in fine shape to me, and its not like the jury wont expect his trainer to have bias.

@the_stig

Are you watching the trial at all? No one has been able to establish who threw the first punch. Stop making up facts. The prosecution has gotten every credible defense witness to state that.

PS - I love how Mantei owned that computer animation witness. The judge isnt letting that speculative crap in.

 

[Jaylan]

Jaylan,

George was anything BUT in shape. Nearly every 17 year old is in better shape than most adults. It helps that they have gym class every other day and nothing to do other than play sports with friends all summer.

Assumptions assumptions. A lot of 17 yr olds are scrawny kids. And many are tubby too given the US weight issue. Youre telling me 17 yr old boys who arent finished growing are in better shape than most physically mature men in their 20s? Lets be real and not make these assumptions.

Martin was no athlete. At least not since junior high when he was an even smaller kid. Its safe to say Zimmerman and Martin had both not been too fit over the few years prior to February 2012. And Zimmerman was involved in training around that time anyways. For the most part Id say they both were out of shape Americans. They were both small and weak in my book. No evidence suggests either was the picture of health.

As far as the first punch, the text messages deleted from TM's phone tell a great deal about his predisposition and mentality towards fighting and such.

But it appears the prosecution was playing games and never provided it until June 4th, even though they had the information since January.

Lol....and the defense isnt playing games with garbage like the biased computer simulation?

We don't *know* who threw the first punch, but as I stated before, the probability is considerably high that TM threw the first one, for a number of previously stated reasons.

That probability is all based on your own slanted opinion. No one can say for sure what happened.

Either way, the prosecution scored points today with that dummy and picking apart Zimmermans story. They planted doubt in the jurors minds about Zimmermans story...about how could a gun be grabbed for if Martins knees where were Zimmerman and these witnesses are trying to say they were.

 

[Jaylan]

Assumptions? While what you said were not assumptions???

I am telling you that 17 year old men (I like how you use the term "boy" when through-out history 17 year olds have always been considered men physically) are in aggregate in better shape than late 20 somethings.

This is just plain absolute fact.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense, or enough time to google, will tell you how stupid what you just said is. 17 year old boys/men are NOT physically mature. Any scientific information shows that men dont stop growing completely until their early 20s, and muscle mass peaks in their mid 20s and plateus until their early 30s. This is why athletes reach their peak in their mid to late 20s. Zimmerman was 28 at the time of his encounter with Martin, not 38. And even if we are talking about average people, we hit our physical primes in our 20s. And by prime, thats our muscle mass, flexibility, and overall physical ability....its at its peak in our 20s, not our teens. Especially not 17.

Have you seen todays average teen? They arent in much better shape than the average 20 something. And last I checked, Zimmerman looked as in good of shape as Martin did last year. Nevermind the fact that he was training while Martin wasnt. So this assumption that Martin was in much better shape is just incorrect. At most they were both regular Americans in average shape.

What is wrong with a visual representation of testimony? Why is that bad? And that isn't even close to comparable with the prosecution hiding evidence and the Judge not allowing the Defense time to review and validate it.

There is no other word for that other than obstruction of George's rights.

And I reiterate. Based on testimony from both sides the probability remains very high that Trayvon threw the first punch.

It doesnt matter what you think was "highly likely" to have happened. There is no evidence of who struck first, so its all speculation at the end of the day. And we can all wipe our butts with speculation.

And regarding the simulation, given the fact that some testimony has contradicted other testimony, the fact that the simulation showed Martin striking first (an unproven testimony), and the fact that there were no eye witnesses to what started the altercation....all this means that the computer animation would bias the jury.

Nevermind the fact that the animator didnt accurately recreate the events of that evening, and took it a step further by including unprovable testimony given by the defendant (testimony of who struck first)

 

[Jaylan]

Oh, are you changing the subject to muscle mass? I thought we were talking about in shape, as in TONE.
I repeat again, most 17's are in better shape (TONE) than late 20 counterparts.

Its amazing how some of you guys truly believe the nonsense you speak at times.

Clearly we have a guy here who knows nothing about physical ability, athleticism or fitness. Being in shape isn’t solely about muscle tone. Muscle mass plays a large role. You need both as strength is a function of mass and tone combined. Allow me to be more clear. Earlier I should have said peak strength occurs in your mid 20s, not that only peak mass occurs. But that strength peaks in the 20s and is affected by tone and muscle mass combined. Any research data will show you this. Do you really want me to own you with PubMd studies? Ill find you the data if you like.

Again, being toned is not the only factor of being in shape. A slim 17 yr old kid with tone would be in a lot less shape than me, a 26 yr old guy with a good amount of muscle mass and tone. The average 17 yr old isnt capable of the tone and mass I am capable of. I definitely wasnt capable of the body I have no back when I was 17. I may have looked tone, but a lot of people mistaken being thin with being tone. Low body fat does not equal tone...and most teenagers dont have much muscle tone, but they dont even exercise nowadays.

Hell, a novice weight lifting in his late 20s with a huge amount of muscle mass but not a lot of tone would easily outclass most teenagers, because most teenage boys are small without much muscle mass or even tone yet. They haven’t finished growing.

And if you wanna talk about peaks, check out this http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/agingex/agingex.html. I back up what I say with facts. And do remember, physical fighting ability is not solely about tone. Its about muscle mass, flexibility, and quickness too. If you want I have more links for you. Or are you more knowledgeable than the Encyclopedia of Sports Medicine and Science?

Nevermind the fact that testosterone is what makes muscles grow and become toned. And testosterone peaks in your mid to late 20s. And let me repeat again, muscle mass and tone contribute to overall strength. They go hand in hand. Strength is a function of tone and mass combined, and strength peaks in your mid 20s. Nothing Ive said is wrong.

Mass is a FAR cry different than tone. Most guys when they hit 22 get less and less exercise. That doesn't stop for a 17 year old who still goes to school, has no job, and plays basketball all day.

You simply have NO clue what you are talking about.

Actually Ive just highlighted that you do not know what you are talking about. And now you are acting like you know the activity levels of all teens and 20 somethings. Its been pretty well documented over the years that technology has made children and teens play outside less, but even if they were still very active, they have biological limitations that I highlighted above. The 20s is still the peak decade for physical ability and its not like all 20-somethings let themselves go to crap after 22. Most people I know have exercised more in their early to mid 20s than they ever did as a teen.

And its not like plenty of teenagers aren’t in terrible shape…we see it everyday and the First Lady has even started a crusade to get young people in better shape. So lets stop pretending that teens outclass 20-somethings so easily. You are the one who has no idea what hes talking about. Anyone who knows anything about the human body would laugh at you saying teenagers, who aren’t physically mature, are somehow more physically able than people in their 20s. Find me one source online that backs up what youre saying.

Again, strength is about tone and muscle mass, and it peaks in our mid 20s and plateus until out early or mid 30s. Every source you can find agrees with this. Find me one that doesn’t, because Im sure I can find 15 that agree with me

Oh, you now want to compare Trayvon to the average teen? And by looking at the photos of George at the time you can see he was not in shape.

I want to compare BOTH of them to average folks their age. They were BOTH little weaklings. Id destroy both of those guys in a fight. Neither had muscle tone or mass. In other words neither has much strength. Lol @ this idea that the average little 17 yr old in the world could outclass an average 20-something.
Most guys here will even tell you they were stronger, bigger, and more physically fit in their early 20s or mid twenties, than they were at freaking 17 years old.

It doesn't matter $hit what you think. I have logic on my side, all you have is emotions and butthurt.
Bias the jury how? It's just a visual representation of the defense testimony. The State could have easily done the same thing.

Lmao…now youre really wishing for something that aint there. Im butt hurt because I said we can wipe our behinds with speculation? Its true…computer simulation that don’t use actual proven facts are speculations. And because of that they are useless in a criminal case, because they are just hard reaches to bias the jury. And the state couldn’t and didn’t do the same thing because they were smart enough to know it wouldn’t be admissible as evidence. The judge ruled it could be used as a demonstrative aid in testimony, like the dummy from today. But to present it as evidence (aka a fact) would be misleading and just incorrect.

There is no logic on your side. And speculations about who struck first can be butt wiped too, because no one can establish what actually happened. Whats logical about making an assumption which has no use in a court of law. The jurors will basically have no ignore the “who started it?” arguments from either side, because neither side can establish with certainty who indeed struck first.

All probability shows that Trayvon struck first.

He initiated the confrontation with "Why you following me for".
His phone was full of texts about fighting, being in fights, and helping his brother learn to fight.
George knew the police were coming, makes little sense to start an altercation.

Everything that could help decide who threw the punch leans towards Trayvon. You may hate it, but it's the simple truth. If you weren't so invested in trying to blame George, you would realize that.

You are clearly being biased. You ignored many things that could lead people to believe Zimmerman had a probability of striking first. Even the defense lawyers blogging and talking about this case on tv admit that the prosecution makes good points about there being a probability Zimmerman struck first. And btw, those defense attorneys are folks who think Zimmerman will walk away from this.

The prosecution states that Zimmermans frustration in the 911 tapes shows a guy who didn’t wanna wait for the police and let another supposed bad guy get away. Also, if you wanna highlight Martins past, lets not forget Zimmermans record of dosmetic issues with his now wife, and assault on a police officer. And also theres his aggression towards former co workers. Why do you ignore Zimmermans past and his attitude in the 911 calls? So no, everything does not point to Martin having thrown the first punch. Theres other things that could paint a picture that he didn’t.

You just aren’t looking at this from both sides. Lord knows if there was a recording of Martin showing frustration or hostility towards Zimmermans, guys like you wouldn’t just gloss over it.

 

[Jaylan]

Stength is a function of tone AND mass. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about fitness knows this. And BOTH muscle tone and mass peak in your mid 20s. Read what I wrote and read the provided link in my last post, or did you skim over the presented factual evidence?

We peak in our mid 20s. This is mainly because testosterone hits its peak in our 20s. Find me ONE study that says otherwise about strength, tone, or mass or sheer speed. Ive provided you with facts to back up what I said and it comes from a sports medicine encyclopedia.

Where is the world are you getting your "facts"?

And LMAO @ the fact that you even brought up speed? The fastest and quickest guys in the world have ALWAYS been in their 20s. Why do you think sprinters have no much tone and muscle mass? Why are the best always in their 20s? Because thats when their skills peak, and to be a good sprinter you need a good amount of muscle mass and tone. Which again, peak in our 20s.

At least back up your assertions with some facts dude. Just look at Usain Bolts running times. He obliterates ANYTHING he did in his teens. Peak fitness has always been in the 20s for both men and women and that will never change because thats when our bodies reach their complete physical maturity.

Im much quicker, stronger and fitter in my mid 20s than I ever was in my mid or late teens. As Im sure most people experience the same thing. And there is no quickness sport out there where the average teen can beat an average 20-something. They probably couldnt even beat mediocre 20 somethings.

Go read a book bro. Better yet, go to the fitness part of this forum, or any fitness forum on the net. Post the crap your posting and watch the guys here laugh you out of the thread.

Let me repeat this for the last time, since you arent seeing what Im saying or what the presented evidence said. Male strength and speed peaks in our 20s. If you can find me any reputable evidence against that, than Ill tip my hat.

EDIT: PS - ALL THINGS USED TO DETERMINE BEING IN SHAPE...be they tone, strength, quickness, etc....ALL PEAK IN OUR 20s. ATHLETICISM PEAKS IN OUR 20s, thats why people in the best shape are in their 20s.

When the best athletes in the world are primarily teenagers, and when most teenagers start outclassing 20-something men in how our bodies look, than youll have a point. Till then, youre ignorantly arguing against biologic facts. You cant use one example of a terribly out of shape guy like Zimmerman, whos fluctuated between thin and chubby his whole life, as an example of teenagers being in better shape than 20-somethings. Get real.

I cant believe someone is using George Zimmerman to try and disprove scientific studies and recorded facts. How blatantly stupid. Trying to use Zimmerman as an example, is like me using Channing Tatum as an example of how most guys in their 30s look, and saying guys in their 30s are more in shape than guys in their 20s.

 

[Stagger Lee]

There's no evidence George laid a finger on Trayvon. All the evidence shows that Trayvon attacked George and George shot him in self defense. Jaylan doesn't care about evidence, only race :yawn: .

Sad thing is George will probably be convicted of something just because he killed a young black person in self defense. I doubt the jury has the balls to do the right thing as the evidence and law would require.

 

[Jaylan]

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11357-011-9274-9

Peak performance at age 26. I cant seem to find any studies saying teenagers had the best athleticism. Oh thats right...its because its not true.

Even if Martin was in better shape than Zimmerman, it doesnt change what youve been saying. And youve been saying that teenagers are in better shape than 20-somethings and thats not true in the slightest.

Theres as many out of shape teens as there are 20 somethings nowadays anyways. But even so, teens dont tend to have the same physical capabilities as people in their 20s.

And heres another good link: http://www.axonpotential.com/athletes-and-age-of-peak-performance/

This page has information about the peak ages of people across different athletic disciplines and it links reputable studies next to each of its points. Still nothing where teens outclass 20-somethings. Hell, I never saw the average teen besting anyone over 20 when I was college. The 21-plus guys owned the teenagers when it came to sports and fitness.

But hey, when it comes to folks who spread ignorance and misinformation, "I aint even mad"

 

[speed dawg]

Gaylan won't stop until Zimmerman walks. Then, the deep-rooted vitriol will come out.

Actually, he'll probably be helping with the riots.

 

[Jaylan]

Gaylan won't stop until Zimmerman walks. Then, the deep-rooted vitriol will come out.

Actually, he'll probably be helping with the riots.

Howd you know? Im gonna have white women looking like this....




after they get a glimpse of that BBC. Im gonna splash a white riot all over their faces xD

 

[Married Buried]

Travon threw the first punch.
I don't think that has ever been in dispute.
It doesn't sound like Zimmerman threw any punches. He had a gun, why would he throw a punch?

I really don't care but I think Zimmerman should fry just for being stupid enough for following someone around with a gun. He created the situation. Following someone around with a gun is some serious BS.

 

[( . )( . )]

Howd you know? Im gonna have white women looking like this....




after they get a glimpse of that BBC. Im gonna splash a white riot all over their faces xD

Lawd, gaylans attempt to "butch it up" is about as genuine as a 3 dollar bill. Haven't you got some posts to make about those icky commitment "phobic" men over at loveshack or some sh1t?. fuggin bozo

 

[Jaylan]

Lawd, gaylans attempt to "butch it up" is about as genuine as a 3 dollar bill. Haven't you got some posts to make about those icky commitment "phobic" men over at loveshack or some sh1t?. fuggin bozo

You are clearly not familiar with my posts over there, so I will help you out:yes:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/gen...-never-marry-cant-wait-till-question-comes-up

Yeah, I make posts about " icky commitment "phobic" men" .

Actually, I clearly defend the idea that marriage isnt for everyone and that not all relationships last forever. I clearly state that I myself may never commit the way many women want a man to commit. So if youre going to lurk on another forum in order to stalk my posts, the least you can do is characterize my viewpoints truthfully.

 

[Kupid Diggs]

All of these Anti- Government Militia groups out here... And you people are worried about blacks starting riots... White people make me laugh...

 

[speed dawg]

[*]Guess who those riots will be targeting?

I hope they come to my house. Won't be any white guilt that night.

 

[PlayHer Man]

I don't have much to say on this topic as most others have already said it.

I'm pretty neutral on the whole thing and the racial part of it is just annoying and unnecessary.

A few comments:

- Zimmerman had no business initiating the situation
- Was lethal force necessary against an unarmed person?
- Ignorant hoodrats who want to cause riots don't represent the entire black population anymore than cow-tipping trailer trash represent the entire White population.

A fat idiot bit off more then he could chew and ended up killing someone. That is what happened. All age and racial crap aside.

 

[MaddXMan]

All of these Anti- Government Militia groups out here... And you people are worried about blacks starting riots... White people make me laugh...

These fat asses in the militia groups are the embarrassing filth of a nation.

 

[speed dawg]

I'm pretty neutral on the whole thing and the racial part of it is just annoying and unnecessary.

Bullshiat!!!! You say that out of one side of your mouth and then say this:

A few comments:

- Zimmerman had no business initiating the situation
- Was lethal force necessary against an unarmed person?
- Ignorant hoodrats who want to cause riots don't represent the entire black population anymore than cow-tipping trailer trash represent the entire White population.

A fat idiot bit off more then he could chew and ended up killing someone. That is what happened. All age and racial crap aside.

YOUR racism is telling you that Zimmerman started this, when everybody else in the trial/jury/media is now realizing that Zimmerman is innocent of murder. He followed and questioned a suspicious character. That is not a crime, and doesn't make Zimmerman an idiot.

Simply AMAZING that black people can just ignore their OWN racism so blatantly.

 

[PlayHer Man]

Bullshiat!!!! You say that out of one side of your mouth and then say this:



YOUR racism is telling you that Zimmerman started this, when everybody else in the trial/jury/media is now realizing that Zimmerman is innocent of murder. He followed and questioned a suspicious character. That is not a crime, and doesn't make Zimmerman an idiot.

Simply AMAZING that black people can just ignore their OWN racism so blatantly.

When did I say I was black? Also when did I say Zimmerman was guilty of murder? You're knee-jerk overreaction to my views only exposes your own racism. :crackup: :crackup:

I'm looking at the situation objectively based on simple common sense and right vs. wrong. If the conclusions I reach don't fit your bias viewpoint, that doesn't make me racist.

I would say the same thing if Zimmerman was black and Trayvon was white. Or if they were both black, or both white, or both Asian. That's why I'm NOT racist.

Some people here want Zimmerman to be guilty because of race and some want him to be innocent because of race. THAT is racism.

The bottom line is Zimmerman approached Trayvon who was minding his own business.. not the other way around. Therefore, Zimmerman is the instigator --> FACT.

Did he murder Trayvon in cold blood? I doubt it. But he DID go looking for trouble and he found it. Now someone is dead. It was a bad judgement call. End of story. Don't like the facts? Stay home bro.

 

[Jaylan]

All strawmen. Let's look at my statement again, just to keep you focused.

There is no strawman and now you modify your original point.

You link to POTENTIAL, which of course is true. But I am speaking about ACTUAL.

Im talking about potential and actual. And you bring up potential to be fat yourself. Ill explain below.

Have a look at the obesity rates by age below. Now tell me, which age range

How do ever changing American obesity rates disprove what Ive said? The potential to be fat has been growing across all age groups over the last 50 years, and climbing the most among youngsters. But ill have fun with your little gallup stats. Stats which dont even separate late teens from early 20 somethings. So Im not sure how you think these links below support your assertions. Im sure most here would tell you they felt fitter and more in shape in their early 20s than their late teens.

According to this link below, twice as many people in George's age group are obese as in Trayvon's age group. Ergo: People in Trayvon's age group are more in shape than in George's age group.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/158351/obesity-nearly-age-groups-2008.aspx

These figures dont separate 18 to 29 yr olds, so its not applicable to this discussion.

Similar study......similar findings.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/142736/obesity-peaks-middle-age.aspx

This data does not separate 18 to 23 year olds. So how does this support your point about teenagers vs 20-somethings? It doesnt even include 17 yr olds, who would be less developed than 18 year olds anyways.

So could you find more specific data?

Oh, and the expert witness even stated the difference in conditioning between Trayvon and George.......Corroborated by George's physical trainer as well.

http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/2504917

You mean the "expert" who approached the defense and was well discredited by the prosecution to the jury?Also, I wasnt aware that Root was an ex-fitness coach who had access to Martin before or after his death. Oh thats right, hes an ex cop, and like Zimmermans trainer, neither had an idea of Martins physical fitness.

I think the jurors take both those guys testimonies with a grain of salt, especially the one who sought out the defense team. That doesnt bold well for a professional witness whos supposed to be unbiased.

Jaylan....."In Shape" doesn't mean potential. It means actually In Shape, as of right now. George was fat and flabby, and Trayvon was thin and lean.

I know it upsets you that I won't let you twist the argument or my statements.....but that is what "In Shape" means.

He wasnt FAT last year. The same people calling Zimmerman fat and weak seem to be the same people who were whining that the media showed old pictures of him as such when he was slim and in decent shape last year.

He wasnt fat at the time of the shooting. Anyone looking at pictures of him then would say he was in shape. Especially since so many Americans are quite larger. Hell hes fat now, he wasnt fat and out of shape then.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I disagree that Zimmerman shouldn't have carried a gun (it's actually smart to have a gun), or question Trayvon acting as a neighborhood watch in his neighborhood that has been burglarized, .

It all comes down to Trayvon acting like a suspicious person and attacking Zimmerman cost him his life.

All that stuff about Zimmerman shouldn't carry a gun, shouldn't have questioned Trayvon, shouldn't have shot etc is all hindsight and immaterial. If you attack someone, punching them, straddle them and bang their head into the sidewalk, the person is going to assume you are a violent thug/criminal trying to seriously injure or kill them and you might get shot in self defense. That's the consequence. Some people think that certain people shouldn't be responsible for the consequence of their actions and behavior.