oakraiderz2
Master Don Juan
So im graduating in may and ive been looking at jobs and ive been leaning toward b2b sales. Once again, i want to know if anyone has done it and the details of the day to day life.
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Sales Jobs (B2B)...Lets play with my future
- Thread starter oakraiderz2
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Hooligan Harry
Master Don Juan
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What did you major in?
A career in sales is not for everyone. There is a scientific approach to it, but you need to have a certain type of character to be able to be good at it. Sales people are born and anyone who says otherwise cant sell ****.
It has its good points and it has its bad points
Good points
1 - Money. Good sales people make a killing. Real money, not this 120k a year crap.
2 - Education. You learn a hell of a lot about business. The important things, like strategy and opportunity management. Not how to manage workflow processes or fix a leak. You realise you pay people to do that ****.
3 - Good long term prospects. Good sales people always have offers on the table and the better ones end up starting their own thing. Once you are up and running, you will never have to look for work. They come to you.
4 - Travel. I have seen the world because of it. Not all jobs offer that, but if you are going to be a high level salesperson it will have to be with a company that deals with multi nationals.
Bad points
1 - You deal with rejection daily. Trust me, people treat you like **** when you are a salesman. You count for nothing and most folks will not piss in your mouth if your teeth were on fire.
2 - You lose faith in people. Dealing with them, you learn to see their bad side. You also become jaded because of point 1. To be honest, after 12 odd years of this crap, I have learned to really dislike people. Very few are genuine and ethical. Most are lazy, self centered and very bad at their jobs.
3 - You become manipulative. Its not intentional, but you take boardroom negotiation tactics into your personal life sometimes. Problematic in relationships with friends and family where you need to compromise sometimes.
4 - Its harder to win the trust of people, and even your own friends start to distrust you at times. They think its in your nature to candy coat everything or exaggerate. You may be ethical and by the book but people think you are no different to a second hand car dealer
5 - People have zero respect for the profession. Its why sales people call themselves "Business Development Managers" or "Customer Relationship Managers." You will also get people coming along from a different profession thinking that a technical aptitude will help them sell. Or women think that they can sell because they are a "people person". People go ooooh, AHHH when you say you are a doctor or lawyer. Tell them you are a salesman, and they view you with sense of disdain from the word go. You make more money then the doctor, and you are more ethical then the lawyer, but it counts for ****.
Day to day
1 - Lots of time on the phone, cold calling and prospecting. Having to deal with rude receptionists and secretaries. Having to deal with a HOD who has just got his 6th cold call of the day.
2 - Spending time on the road. Get yourself a decent car and make sure you have a good sound system, thats if you not on the mobile while you drive
3 - Pressure. Non stop pressure. Pressure to hit targets. Pressure to manage clients expectations. Pressure to manage your own colleagues. Trust me, this job cuts people in half if they are not cut out for it.
4 - research. You spend a lot of time researching industry and clients.
5 - admin. Lots of time working on presentations, proposals, purchase orders, etc
6 - Your days are longer. I know people think that we spend all day on the golf course and sometimes we can get away. However, they also dont see you working 3am because Jimbo in accounting never go the numbers to you quick enough. or because you can only deal with people during business hours so admin is left for time you should be spending with friends and family
Saying that, its the greatest job in the world when you are good at it.
A career in sales is not for everyone. There is a scientific approach to it, but you need to have a certain type of character to be able to be good at it. Sales people are born and anyone who says otherwise cant sell ****.
It has its good points and it has its bad points
Good points
1 - Money. Good sales people make a killing. Real money, not this 120k a year crap.
2 - Education. You learn a hell of a lot about business. The important things, like strategy and opportunity management. Not how to manage workflow processes or fix a leak. You realise you pay people to do that ****.
3 - Good long term prospects. Good sales people always have offers on the table and the better ones end up starting their own thing. Once you are up and running, you will never have to look for work. They come to you.
4 - Travel. I have seen the world because of it. Not all jobs offer that, but if you are going to be a high level salesperson it will have to be with a company that deals with multi nationals.
Bad points
1 - You deal with rejection daily. Trust me, people treat you like **** when you are a salesman. You count for nothing and most folks will not piss in your mouth if your teeth were on fire.
2 - You lose faith in people. Dealing with them, you learn to see their bad side. You also become jaded because of point 1. To be honest, after 12 odd years of this crap, I have learned to really dislike people. Very few are genuine and ethical. Most are lazy, self centered and very bad at their jobs.
3 - You become manipulative. Its not intentional, but you take boardroom negotiation tactics into your personal life sometimes. Problematic in relationships with friends and family where you need to compromise sometimes.
4 - Its harder to win the trust of people, and even your own friends start to distrust you at times. They think its in your nature to candy coat everything or exaggerate. You may be ethical and by the book but people think you are no different to a second hand car dealer
5 - People have zero respect for the profession. Its why sales people call themselves "Business Development Managers" or "Customer Relationship Managers." You will also get people coming along from a different profession thinking that a technical aptitude will help them sell. Or women think that they can sell because they are a "people person". People go ooooh, AHHH when you say you are a doctor or lawyer. Tell them you are a salesman, and they view you with sense of disdain from the word go. You make more money then the doctor, and you are more ethical then the lawyer, but it counts for ****.
Day to day
1 - Lots of time on the phone, cold calling and prospecting. Having to deal with rude receptionists and secretaries. Having to deal with a HOD who has just got his 6th cold call of the day.
2 - Spending time on the road. Get yourself a decent car and make sure you have a good sound system, thats if you not on the mobile while you drive
3 - Pressure. Non stop pressure. Pressure to hit targets. Pressure to manage clients expectations. Pressure to manage your own colleagues. Trust me, this job cuts people in half if they are not cut out for it.
4 - research. You spend a lot of time researching industry and clients.
5 - admin. Lots of time working on presentations, proposals, purchase orders, etc
6 - Your days are longer. I know people think that we spend all day on the golf course and sometimes we can get away. However, they also dont see you working 3am because Jimbo in accounting never go the numbers to you quick enough. or because you can only deal with people during business hours so admin is left for time you should be spending with friends and family
Saying that, its the greatest job in the world when you are good at it.
oakraiderz2
Master Don Juan
Im a psychology major. To me it seems that theyre looking for people with degrees in business and that sort of area which is why i think i could get hired.Hmmm...i appreciate your breakdown. It definately made me think twice about it, which is kind of what i was looking for. Ive been doing research and presentations since i started school due to my major so i think i have that covered. Ive also been trying to read books about persuasion, recently i bought a book about neuromarketing. So far its pretty interesting and a lot of the information regarding the brain and how people make decisions seems solid. Im kind of hoping for the knowledge from that book and what i learned in school to help me get by more easily than others, but i may just be having a wet dream.
Hooligan Harry
Master Don Juan
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Psychology is one hell of a major to have for sales! Its all psychology! I have been trying to convince a younger cousin with the same degree to consider it.
You are looking at this the right way and you are thinking about it correctly. People think that they can walk into an office and let the product/service do the talking. Its a mistake technical people make and marketing people make. Or they think because they are social they will be able to sell or manage people.
Its does not work that way and people buy for emotional reasons. Its always emotional, rarely is it rational. Its like dealing with women. They rationalise emotional decisions. I dont care if its a PA buying stationary or a CFO signing over 500k for an inventory management system.
Go for it I say.
From there, the best advice I can offer is to choose an industry. Something technical like mining, engineering or IT. While you are selling and gaining experience, you want to improve your technical understanding in a certain industry or field.
In doing so, you learn to identify opportunities easier and manage technical people. You never need anything more then theoretical knowledge. Again, a second degree is advised. Consider doing something correspondence. It takes 5-6 years and is tough going, but by the time you are in the your mid 30's?
Sales experience, an understanding of psychology and deep technical understanding of what you sell? You print money. Few people posses all three.
You are looking at this the right way and you are thinking about it correctly. People think that they can walk into an office and let the product/service do the talking. Its a mistake technical people make and marketing people make. Or they think because they are social they will be able to sell or manage people.
Its does not work that way and people buy for emotional reasons. Its always emotional, rarely is it rational. Its like dealing with women. They rationalise emotional decisions. I dont care if its a PA buying stationary or a CFO signing over 500k for an inventory management system.
Go for it I say.
From there, the best advice I can offer is to choose an industry. Something technical like mining, engineering or IT. While you are selling and gaining experience, you want to improve your technical understanding in a certain industry or field.
In doing so, you learn to identify opportunities easier and manage technical people. You never need anything more then theoretical knowledge. Again, a second degree is advised. Consider doing something correspondence. It takes 5-6 years and is tough going, but by the time you are in the your mid 30's?
Sales experience, an understanding of psychology and deep technical understanding of what you sell? You print money. Few people posses all three.
oakraiderz2
Master Don Juan
If only you knew how valuble your advice was. I had some doubt just because im not as social as the majority, but im moderately extraverted. I think a degree in psychology should give me an advantage when my application is viewed and when i get an interview. I also feel like not many people in the industry have a degree in psychology, but i may be mistaken. Ive been trying to find an industry but im having some trouble. Im kind of leaning toward computers (i saw something for Cisco a couple days ago), just because of the practicality of the knowledge. The main reason im considering sales is because i want to make more than 40k a year and what better way to do it than earning it myself. Also, you say 120k isnt a realistic figure...what would you consider reasonable in the first few years? Any other advice or experience you can share i would more than graciously appreciate.Hooligan Harry said:
Hooligan Harry
Master Don Juan
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Nah, when I say 120k is not realistic, I mean that making 120k for most professionals in other fields is not realisitic. People are over the moon with that kind of salary. After a few years experience, you are potentially making double that as a salesman. Trust me, most high end sales people are making 350k a year plus. Not anyone can do this job and when you are good at it employers THROW incentives your way. Jesus, a basic salary of 100k a year is a minimum if you have experience and good track record. You get incentives on top of that. Salespeople are some of the highest paid employees in the world. Not pissy little account managers and customer relationship managers. Salesmen. Hardcore door busting salesman.
A basic of 40k for a junior salesman is acceptable. Make sure they offer incentives though. Commission is where the real money is. If they dont offer commission, walk out the door. Any company that does not offer you incentives to work there is not going to offer a productive sales environment or a product that requires much selling (that affects skills long term)
Same goes for these bull**** employers who want to only pay commision. They offer that, you walk out the door. They need to be prepared to invest in you too. If they dont invest in their sales people they have no faith in their sales process or their offering and it wont be a good environment. Dont let this "we reward performance" crap ever be rationalised. Ill bet my left nut they dont have one good salesman on their floor.
Make sure that as a junior there are senior sales people there when you start. A company with a high turnover in sales staff is a warning sign. Yes, salespeople are generally poor and job hop. But if they dont have one or two guys hitting their targets then there is a problem there. Sales people never leave when they are making money. They only leave for more money
Learn to adjust your lifestyle accordingly. Your basic salary always covers major expenses like rent and your car. Your investments, entertainment and luxuries come with commission. Never expect to cover basic expenses with your commission. You need to be hungry for your incentives, but never go hungry when you dont get them. Trust me, December is a crap month for everyone.
IT is as good an industry as anything and Cisco is not the worst company either. Anything where a technical knowledge can help you specialise in a field. For me, you cant go wrong in IT, energy, mining, engineering and commercial/industrial construction. I know these sectors are going to get hammered with the downturn but things will improve eventually. Energy is something you need to look at (oil, gas and even green) and IT is not the worst way to go either. Engineering firms providing services to the mines are also something you could consider. Again, once you choose a field, pick a technical field of study in that sector so you can improve your own knowledge. It will make you almost bulletproof.
Also, dont be shy about your desire to make money. You are not there to make friends and find inner peace. You are there to make money. The more money you make for them, the more money you make for yourself. Any company that says they want salespeople who are not driven by money is not the kind of company you want to work for. In an interview, when they ask you "why sales" tell them straight. I hate being behind a desk all day and I like to write my own paycheck. As much as I like people, I like money more. If they dont like it, you dont want to work there.
Ideally, you want the people you report to to be salespeople themselves although its not always possible. When you report to people who have no idea what the sales process involves or what affects the clients buying decsions, you ahve a problem. These people create something that makes sense on paper and refuse to acknowledge that what makes sense on paper is not reality on the curb.
Dont worry about being a complete extrovert. Being an extrovert does not automatically make you a good salesman. In fact, it can be a problem in some cases. Those people make good account managers, they make poor sales people. A few qualities you need as an outright salesperson
* Able to handle rejection
For every person that says yes, there are 10 who will say no. Those ratios improve as you get better and more experienced. But you need to be able to handle the rude behaviour of people and not take things personally. This is where most people fail. They hate to hear no, they get upset with the way they are treated, they expect things to be fair. If you can learn to develop the thick skin required for the job, it really is half the battle won. Never take it personally, grunt and move on. There is going to be plenty of it.
* Persistent
You need to be able to call the same person every month for 18 months until they see you. You need to work past the receptionists and secretaries. You need to know that just because there is no business there now does not man there is nothing there in 3 months time. Most people are too afraid to bother people. (extroverts with high social intelligence in particular suffer with this! ) Remember, its their ****ing job to take your calls. Its their job to meet with salespeople to benchmark what their current providers offer them.
For example, I have a major university I recently managed to secure a meeting with. I have spent the last 7 months chasing the head honcho. He has dodged my calls. Never been available. Never responded to email. After 7 months of a getting a phone call once a week like clockwork, he realised I was going no where. Gave me 30 minutes of his time. I researched them to hell and back and in that 30 minutes I hammered him. Wished he met me earlier.
* Balls
It take guts to ask someone to sign a contract. Simply asking for the order is something so many people cant do. And literally, balls. Never met a woman that could sell. They can manage accounts or **** their way into them, but they cant sell ****.
* Patience
It takes a long time to become comfortable. You are going to be outside your comfort zone for a long time when you first start. Eventually, as you become more experienced, you will learn to adjust your approach.
* The ability to build relationships.
You dont need to be an extrovert to do this. In fact, it will put certain people off. I have lost deals because people cant stand me and won business because they like me. This is something you learn to do with experience and all the "people person/unicorns/rainbow" **** will not make it easier. Geeks like geeks. Jocks like Jocks. Women dont trust aggressive men. The ability to mould your approach to the people you deal with (psychology
) is what helps build rapport.
A basic of 40k for a junior salesman is acceptable. Make sure they offer incentives though. Commission is where the real money is. If they dont offer commission, walk out the door. Any company that does not offer you incentives to work there is not going to offer a productive sales environment or a product that requires much selling (that affects skills long term)
Same goes for these bull**** employers who want to only pay commision. They offer that, you walk out the door. They need to be prepared to invest in you too. If they dont invest in their sales people they have no faith in their sales process or their offering and it wont be a good environment. Dont let this "we reward performance" crap ever be rationalised. Ill bet my left nut they dont have one good salesman on their floor.
Make sure that as a junior there are senior sales people there when you start. A company with a high turnover in sales staff is a warning sign. Yes, salespeople are generally poor and job hop. But if they dont have one or two guys hitting their targets then there is a problem there. Sales people never leave when they are making money. They only leave for more money
Learn to adjust your lifestyle accordingly. Your basic salary always covers major expenses like rent and your car. Your investments, entertainment and luxuries come with commission. Never expect to cover basic expenses with your commission. You need to be hungry for your incentives, but never go hungry when you dont get them. Trust me, December is a crap month for everyone.
IT is as good an industry as anything and Cisco is not the worst company either. Anything where a technical knowledge can help you specialise in a field. For me, you cant go wrong in IT, energy, mining, engineering and commercial/industrial construction. I know these sectors are going to get hammered with the downturn but things will improve eventually. Energy is something you need to look at (oil, gas and even green) and IT is not the worst way to go either. Engineering firms providing services to the mines are also something you could consider. Again, once you choose a field, pick a technical field of study in that sector so you can improve your own knowledge. It will make you almost bulletproof.
Also, dont be shy about your desire to make money. You are not there to make friends and find inner peace. You are there to make money. The more money you make for them, the more money you make for yourself. Any company that says they want salespeople who are not driven by money is not the kind of company you want to work for. In an interview, when they ask you "why sales" tell them straight. I hate being behind a desk all day and I like to write my own paycheck. As much as I like people, I like money more. If they dont like it, you dont want to work there.
Ideally, you want the people you report to to be salespeople themselves although its not always possible. When you report to people who have no idea what the sales process involves or what affects the clients buying decsions, you ahve a problem. These people create something that makes sense on paper and refuse to acknowledge that what makes sense on paper is not reality on the curb.
Dont worry about being a complete extrovert. Being an extrovert does not automatically make you a good salesman. In fact, it can be a problem in some cases. Those people make good account managers, they make poor sales people. A few qualities you need as an outright salesperson
* Able to handle rejection
For every person that says yes, there are 10 who will say no. Those ratios improve as you get better and more experienced. But you need to be able to handle the rude behaviour of people and not take things personally. This is where most people fail. They hate to hear no, they get upset with the way they are treated, they expect things to be fair. If you can learn to develop the thick skin required for the job, it really is half the battle won. Never take it personally, grunt and move on. There is going to be plenty of it.
* Persistent
You need to be able to call the same person every month for 18 months until they see you. You need to work past the receptionists and secretaries. You need to know that just because there is no business there now does not man there is nothing there in 3 months time. Most people are too afraid to bother people. (extroverts with high social intelligence in particular suffer with this! ) Remember, its their ****ing job to take your calls. Its their job to meet with salespeople to benchmark what their current providers offer them.
For example, I have a major university I recently managed to secure a meeting with. I have spent the last 7 months chasing the head honcho. He has dodged my calls. Never been available. Never responded to email. After 7 months of a getting a phone call once a week like clockwork, he realised I was going no where. Gave me 30 minutes of his time. I researched them to hell and back and in that 30 minutes I hammered him. Wished he met me earlier.
* Balls
It take guts to ask someone to sign a contract. Simply asking for the order is something so many people cant do. And literally, balls. Never met a woman that could sell. They can manage accounts or **** their way into them, but they cant sell ****.
* Patience
It takes a long time to become comfortable. You are going to be outside your comfort zone for a long time when you first start. Eventually, as you become more experienced, you will learn to adjust your approach.
* The ability to build relationships.
You dont need to be an extrovert to do this. In fact, it will put certain people off. I have lost deals because people cant stand me and won business because they like me. This is something you learn to do with experience and all the "people person/unicorns/rainbow" **** will not make it easier. Geeks like geeks. Jocks like Jocks. Women dont trust aggressive men. The ability to mould your approach to the people you deal with (psychology
) is what helps build rapport.Crazy Asian
Master Don Juan
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i've been wanting to go into sales too.
but how does one exactly get a job in sales?
like what would a salesman do exactly?
but how does one exactly get a job in sales?
like what would a salesman do exactly?
Hooligan Harry
Master Don Juan
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It helps I am sure, but it makes no difference in the long run. If looks mattered at all, women would be dominating. They dont even feature. A good presentation makes a difference but I dont think being an ugly **** is that big a disadvantage to be quite honestDamHE said:
Hooligan Harry
Master Don Juan
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Go get yourself a degree first. Worry about sales after you get a technical qualification of some sort. Or a degree in psychology/industrial relations perhaps.Crazy Asian said:
I'm considering going into sales, do you have any advice HH?
I'm finishing up m degree in Podiatry in May; Its a 4 year doctorate in medicine with a specialization in the foot and ankle. If I stick in the field I'll be stuck making 40-50k for the next 3 years as a Resident- and there's no guarantee I'll be making great money (over 200k) when I finish Residency either. I don't love the field and I just want to get rich ASAP.
You have any recommendations?
I'm finishing up m degree in Podiatry in May; Its a 4 year doctorate in medicine with a specialization in the foot and ankle. If I stick in the field I'll be stuck making 40-50k for the next 3 years as a Resident- and there's no guarantee I'll be making great money (over 200k) when I finish Residency either. I don't love the field and I just want to get rich ASAP.
You have any recommendations?
Hooligan Harry
Master Don Juan
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Sales is no path to getting rich quick. You need a bit of luck for that to happen. Saying that, top notch sales people are always going to earn more then doctors do.Aenigma said:
Pharmaceuticals and healthcare are great areas to specialise in. Profitable, tech driven with large budgets. Problem is that they can be competitive. What you need to find out is who supplies services or products to podiatrists. Those are the companies you want to be contacting.
With your background, many would be prepared to train you up as a salesman. Its rare for salespeople, especially in healthcare, to actually have a degree in medicine itself.
As tough as it may be, I would suggest that you grit it out and become a qualified podiatrist before you start looking to sell. It will serve you well long term.
In the interim, get a job in a call centre. Tele Sales buddy. Not selling to people at home, selling to business. Selling anything! This will teach you the basics of managing a sales cycle, will teach you how to cold call, will teach you how to handle objections.
Much like the residency, it really is crap work and wont pay well. What you are doing though is skilling yourself up. Its painful now, but long term you would be better off for it.
Remember, sales as a career is not for everyone. At least with you having completed your medical studies, you always have something to fall back on should you decide that you no longer wish to sell.
With the basic sales experience and being a qualified podiatrist, you are well armed to have a crack at it. Bottom line is though that there is no shortcut here and chances are you are going to have to work your arse off for the next 5-6 years before it really starts to pay off.