RT (or someone) please elaborate on this concept [merged threads]

[iqqi]

To answer your questions, just go back to the basics.

• The man does not ask the woman to be exclusive. He waits for the woman to bring that up.
  
• When and if she ever does, he has the option of saying "let me consider that for x number of weeks."

Please don't try the vague "Uh, I dunno. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe never. I dunno." Only a desperate (read "fat") woman will put up with this indecisive crap for long.

To me the vague "uh i dunno" is the same as "let me consider for x # of weeks"... is it not??

 

[guru1000]

How exactly do you "program them from day 1", or filter them out for that matter?

Thing is, she's definitely catching feelings. I never thought a stripper would be falling for me, go figure. There are also some feelings on my end - as I said I do enjoy her company. I've just been in quite a few LTRs already and they don't seem like a good idea at this point.

I've been juggling for 5 months now.

One thing I have to say is a woman will be appreciative of the fact that you are "STRAIGHT UP" with them. It is very HARD but not impossible for a woman who has high IL in you, to walk away because "YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE RUSHED INTO EXCLUSIVITY". Of course you have exceptions to every rule, such as the STRONG HEADED. However the fact remains, as long as you are DIRECT with CONVICTION and without GUILT, most women will RESPECT you more for being upfront.

You don't want to demean and make it appear they are just being used for the sex. It is more of a point that you are a MAN of many options and therefore do not rush into exclusive relationships like the norm. You take your time to get to know the individual before making a RASH DECISION OF EXCLUSIVITY. Do not address other plates or outside sex. State your only intentions are to take it slow and in time you can have that that discussion.

The hardest part of this expression will be the beginning. After that, it is a cake walk. I have not lost a plate yet for NOT RUSHING INTO THINGS. If anything it has built greater value and more respect.

 

[muscleman]

Do not address other plates or outside sex. State your only intentions are to take it slow and in time you can have that that discussion.

The hardest part of this expression will be the beginning. After that, it is a cake walk. I have not lost a plate yet for NOT RUSHING INTO THINGS. If anything it has built greater value and more respect.

But what if "the talk" comes up specifically due to outside sex (as in my example where she finds out I'm with another girl)?

 

[Phyzzle]

To me the vague "uh i dunno" is the same as "let me consider for x # of weeks"... is it not??

Well, no. It's allowing a reasonable amount of time to make a reasonable decision. I've had girls bring up exclusivity after the 4th date. Now WE know that's too soon. But not everybody is quite so experienced. So, it's better to just lay it out, no games, "I cannot commit myself to shut down all other options for someone I've known less than 2 months."

It's not only a definite time-table to bring our troops home, it's also field-tested, mother approved. By myself and a few others. It certainly puts a girl on her very best behavior for those next few weeks! And the more effort she puts into me, the higher her interest level goes. I believe this is called cognitive dissonance.

 

[iqqi]

Well, no. It's allowing a reasonable amount of time to make a reasonable decision. I've had girls bring up exclusivity after the 4th date. Now WE know that's too soon. But not everybody is quite so experienced. So, it's better to just lay it out, no games, "I cannot commit myself to shut down all other options for someone I've known less than 2 months."

It's not only a definite time-table to bring our troops home, it's also field-tested, mother approved. By myself and a few others. It certainly puts a girl on her very best behavior for those next few weeks! And the nicer she is now, the higher her interest level goes. I believe this is called cognitive dissonance.

I think saying "its way too soon" is much better than saying some time frame, and its more honest.

 

[aliasguy]

But what if "the talk" comes up specifically due to outside sex (as in my example where she finds out I'm with another girl)?

Doesn'T that make it EASIER?

 

[muscleman]

Doesn'T that make it EASIER?

What do you mean?

 

[aliasguy]

What do you mean?

If you are WITH another girl when she gives you sh*t about it all, you are LESS likely to crumble. She can just "get in line." Or not

 

[guru1000]

But what if "the talk" comes up specifically due to outside sex (as in my example where she finds out I'm with another girl)?

but I don't necessarily want to be tied down. I'm young, I don't want to get married any time soon, and I enjoy variety from time to time. Yes, I want my cake and I want to eat it too.

A woman will more than likely not leave you if,

1) You are MAN OF INTEGRITY (Setting boundaries)
2) You will not compromise your boundaries but you WILL WALK AWAY

Your boundary is "I do not want to be rushed into exclusivity." If she does not respect your BOUNDARY, walk away.

Whether she meets your other plates or finds you having sex is irrelevant. You make it clear "I am not exclusive." If she cannot respect that, walk away.

 

[Phyzzle]

I think saying "its way too soon" is much better than saying some time frame, and its more honest.

To me, saying 2 months is honest. Because I will, in fact, know enough to make a decision after 2 months.

This is a difference between the way males and females think. For females, they are ready for a relationship when they feel ready. To me a relationship is a DECISION to be exclusive. And I can decide when to make a decision. Besides, my feelings are never a surprise. I'm not going to suddenly stop liking her on day 61, that's ridiculous.


And, yes, I may be wrong, but I have to keep making decisions, even if they are wrong. I have to keep going. I don't know if this makes sense to you.

 

[STR8UP]

The "friend" of mine who stole a bunch of money from me (and millions from his own brother).....he was living the high life for a few years until he got busted.

He was about 100lbs overweight and had a wife at home in his mansion, and a stripper girlfriend in an apartment down the street.

One night he walked into the club holding his girlfriends hand. I looked behind him, and he was with HIS WIFE'S BROTHER.

When the sh!t hit the fan his wife was calling me up crying about how I never told her what was going on, when she KNEW FULL WELL what was happening, she just blocked it out of her mind because the alternative wouldn't have been pleasant. $75k BMW's and three carat diamonds will make any woman look the other way.

Funny, now that he isn't a high roller, BOTH the wife and the GF left him. Funny how the eyes are opened AFTER the money is gone.....

 

[Last Man Standing]

I never thought a stripper would be falling for me, go figure. There are also some feelings on my end - as I said I do enjoy her company.

What in the hell is wrong with you!!! I take it that you drink urine as well!

 

[KontrollerX]

Nice to see he got what he deserved in the end Str8up.

Is he still in the poor house now?

 

[azanon]

Nice to see he got what he deserved in the end Str8up

Yup,..... losing the ability to provide financial security is a very serious thing usually with serious consequences. I'm not sure that's nice to see so much as it is simply the way it is.


Oh, no I see, you meant from a Karma perspective, right? In a utopian world (IOW, not this one), fidelity (or lack thereof) and honesty are at the top of women's lists. In this world, they "count" too, but are easily trumped or overlooked by other desireable features. Not overtly, mind you (see RT's post earlier), but in practice, they can and often are overlooked.

In my opinion, having a "what comes around goes around" way of thinking is potentially unhealthy because it operates from the premise that life is fair; which would be a mistaken premise. For every feel good story like this one, there are 5 other men that live an entire long life having more than their deserved "fair share."

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Are you saying that even within the confines of an LTR (or a prolonged dating scenario) a woman of high desire (i.e. hot) will be tolerant of a male of high desire (i.e. hot, successful, wealthy, whatever) who sleeps with multiple women?

The answer is kind of subjective. Yes, there are women who'll tolerate the errant high-value man within an LTR. However, an LTR implies exclusivity and this can put a guy into a position of becoming a manipulator and/or emotionally abusive. When there is a mutual understanding, however indirect, that a guy is non-exclusive, and is a man women demonstrably see as high-value or maintain a consistently high IL for, he sets his own frame for any LTR that comes after that or he can continue to spin plates.

I should add that few men truly have the maturity, much less the sack, to do this from a confident position of self-worth. Add to this the many feminine social contrivances used to curb him from doing so (i.e. emotional appeals, shaming him, attacking his perceived ego, etc.) and you find most men are unwilling to even attempt it in order to identify with a woman they've been taught should be their monogamy focus.

Again, this all comes back to setting frames. In a dating context, in an attraction context, the foundation of your future LTR with any one plate will be built on the frame you set while you're uncommitted. This is the first best opportunity men have to establish the tone of their LTRs, but too many are too timid or fearful (due to a scarcity mentality) of missing their chance that they never even consider taking the risk of putting themselves in the position of being the primary and setting their own frame. All those guys you know who're trapped in a passionless marriage, or deleterious LTR, asking permission of their wives to do things you and I would take for granted all have one thing in common; they never set the frame of their marriages/LTRs and deferred their own value to her.

Just to reiterate since I see questions about practice, never voluntarily be overt about your non-exclusivity. Even the most insecure woman doesn't want her GFs to think a man's getting the better of her. Far better to be covert, subtle, indirect (all the methods she uses to spin her own plates) than to blurt out how so in demand you are that you'll proudly stick to a strict self-righteous policy of non-monogamy. That just begs a target to be painted on you to take you're "ego" down a notch. Women operate in the indirect, the psychological and the covert - you'll get a whole lot further learning their language and how to employ it. That's not an endorsement of being dishonest. On the contrary, if you're put into a position of having to be direct it's always in your best interest, and simply more pragmatic, to be so. If you have to let a plate go, at least you've been honest and your respect remains intact.

 

[KontrollerX]

Oh don't worry azanon I absolutely know that life is not fair.

Still seeing a scumbag get what he deserves is still a satisfying sight to behold fair world or not.

 

[muscleman]

I should add that few men truly have the maturity, much less the sack, to do this from a confident position of self-worth. Add to this the many feminine social contrivances used to curb him from doing so (i.e. emotional appeals, shaming him, attacking his perceived ego, etc.) and you find most men are unwilling to even attempt it in order to identify with a woman they've been taught should be their monogamy focus.

Again, this all comes back to setting frames. In a dating context, in an attraction context, the foundation of your future LTR with any one plate will be built on the frame you set while you're uncommitted. This is the first best opportunity men have to establish the tone of their LTRs, but too many are too timid or fearful (due to a scarcity mentality) of missing their chance that they never even consider taking the risk of putting themselves in the position of being the primary and setting their own frame. All those guys you know who're trapped in a passionless marriage, or deleterious LTR, asking permission of their wives to do things you and I would take for granted all have one thing in common; they never set the frame of their marriages/LTRs and deferred their own value to her.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Since we're delving a little deeper now, can you elaborate on "setting the frame"? What exactly do you mean by this and what does it have to do with exclusivity/non-exclusivity? Sounds nebulous to me.

 

[azanon]

Oh don't worry azanon I absolutely know that life is not fair.

Still seeing a scumbag get what he deserves is still a satisfying sight to behold fair world or not.

Don't be so convinced from that one side of the story that he's the scumbag. Have you heard his side of the story?

Stealing Money: I have quite a bit of money already. You couldn't steal any of it if you tried. When someone has money stolen, especially "millions", you can safely assume that whoever was being stolen from was being negligent in caring for and protecting their money. Personally, I'd put more of the blame on the negligent person since I have such low respect for carelessness.

Cheating with the brother's wife: Who's more low; the guy doing this or the wife? This is no contest; the wife. Place the blame where the blame primarily belongs. Was LMS banned again? He'd back me on this and make reference to ho's being ho's and how it's inherently wrong to trust them.

Just be careful; cheering on Karma too much suggests that you've also often found yourself to be the victim. If you're identifying more with victims than you are with the one's taking advantage of this world, then life is probably going to be a bit rougher and more challenging for you.

The man in that story got what he deserved; .... just for reasons a bit different from what you want to believe. It was his financial situation that brought him down. Its important that you realize that because I still don't think that you do. Money entitled him to his advantages. When the money goes, so do the advantages. That is the world we live in. The world doesn't much care whether you like the fact that its that way or not.