Routine Change - back to the gym, need guidance

[Barbillus]

Hello,

I seek guidance and direction in the form of replies to the post, references to other posts on this board, or links to other websites. I work long hours and don’t have much time to do research on this subject.

When I was in college, I was lean and cut, went to the gym at least 4 days a week, had a size 30 waist, and ate whatever I want. Today, at 24 and employed full-time in the work force at a desk job, I have been to the gym 5 times in the last year, am developing a skinny man’s gut, have a size 34 waist, and am still eating whatever I want. I am not happy with the way I look, eat, and feel and this is affecting my confidence.

I am looking forward to joining a gym again at the end of the month, changing my routine, and drastically improving my appearance through cardio and weightlifting. Several areas I require some guidance in are below:

1) Diet – Eat small meals every 3 hours, but what types of food/meals? I need examples, and I would appreciate it if we did not get into the technicals (x carbs, y amount of protein/per day etc.) Please just stick to the basic generalities and I will adjust.
2) How do you work your abs? I am developing the skinny man’s gut – it is noticeable. I have never worked stomach/abs before and am lost in how to fix them.
3) Energy – why is it that when you lift some days you feel full of energy and have a great workout while others you are just drained? What factors go into this?
4) Opinions on working out in AM versus PM. When I say AM it will be 6AM-7AM for me if I choose that route.
5) My face is starting to fill up, how do I reverse this and get my younger more youthful face back? Is this related to #1 at all?

Thanks in advance for your help and guidance.

-Barbillus

 

[Throttle]

Start with WBA's Idiot's Guide: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=110033&highlight=idiot's+guide

Then come back here for more specific advice & to ask further questions.

1) Diet – Eat small meals every 3 hours, but what types of food/meals? I need examples, and I would appreciate it if we did not get into the technicals (x carbs, y amount of protein/per day etc.) Please just stick to the basic generalities and I will adjust.

Focus on lean sources of protein: eggs, poultry, fish, lean red meats, nuts, etc. Don't worry about fat (try to balance between various types) but avoid simple sugars (especially high fructose corn syrup) and simple starches (white bread, pasta, etc.) Veggies, leafy greens & whole grains should be your other main staples. Oatmeal or oat bran is a great way to start the day.

2) How do you work your abs? I am developing the skinny man’s gut – it is noticeable. I have never worked stomach/abs before and am lost in how to fix them.

You CANNOT spot reduce fat. Working on your abs will only make your gut stick out more unless you remove the fat on top, and the only way to do that is to reduce overall bodyfat. Clean diet & cardio remove bodyfat, aided and abetted by gradually adding muscle (active muscle burns more calories than active non-muscle or non-active muscle).

3) Energy – why is it that when you lift some days you feel full of energy and have a great workout while others you are just drained? What factors go into this?

Too many to list, but don't fight it, roll with it. One key: you need 7-9 hours of sleep per night, every night. I find working out gets me exhausted enough to make this happen (unless I work out right before bed -- bad idea).

4) Opinions on working out in AM versus PM. When I say AM it will be 6AM-7AM for me if I choose that route.

Suggestion: empty-stomach cardio in the morning; lift hard and heavy in the PM; leave at least a few hours before bedtime to wind down.

5) My face is starting to fill up, how do I reverse this and get my younger more youthful face back? Is this related to #1 at all?

Actually it's more closely related to #2. Reduce your overall bodyfat and your face will stopping filling out and ultimately reverse. Lose bodyfat quickly and you might get some sag -- all the more reason to start today and work on gaining muscle & losing fat at the same time.

Good luck, and keep asking questions!

 

[spesmilitis]

To get a good workout I:
-drink penty of water, atleast 2 glasses at my preworkout meal
-eat a well balanced meal for my preworkout meal. Make sure to eat 2 slices of whole wheat bread. Complex carbs like oatmeal and whole wheat bread are the best
-warmup/stretch

 

[Barbillus]

Throttle and Spez, solid advice. Thanks for replying to my post. I learned alot, especially from WA's Idiots Guide to Growth post.

I require some clarification on your responses and have some more questions.

1) Cardio: I need more clarification on low-intensity cardio and fat burning. Is it safe to say that a slow jog for 20-30 min at a few MPH is sufficient for fat burning? WA mentioned that “best way to burn most fat doing steady state cardio is to be at a pace where you can hold a conversation while exercising.” Opinions?
2) I will not be working my abs at first until my gut is gone. When gut has been reduced and my stomach is relatively flat again, I will start working out the abs. Agree? or no?
3) I need meal examples, instead of generalities like “protein, or lean red meat, or turkey, etc." What are some recipes? Examples of snacks? What to buy when at the deli getting lunch? I live and work in NYC so I can find any type of food I want either at my office cafeteria or anywhere around my office.
I don’t want to be eating the same thing everyday…… am looking for several examples of meals.

Daily Schedule/Routine/Meals

5:30AM - Pre-Workout Meal or go workout on an empty stomach?
6-7:00AM: Workout: Lifting followed by cardio. Somedays may be just cardio until gut is gone.
8:00AM: Breakfast (post work out meal?) This should contain a lot of protein.
12PM: Lunch? Protein filled?
3PM: Mid Afternoon Snack?
7PM: Dinner? This should be a no carb dinner?

Snacks: What snacks to have around the apartment?

Thanks everyone.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Okay, let's make my one and only post of the day a good one..

Throttle and Spez, solid advice. Thanks for replying to my post. I learned alot, especially from WA's Idiots Guide to Growth post.
GLAD YOU LIKED IT.. GIVES ME INCENTIVE TO ADD MORE TO IT WHEN I GET THE TIME AND INCLINATION (SOMETIME NEXT YEAR AT THIS RATE)

I require some clarification on your responses and have some more questions.

1) Cardio: I need more clarification on low-intensity cardio and fat burning. Is it safe to say that a slow jog for 20-30 min at a few MPH is sufficient for fat burning? WA mentioned that “best way to burn most fat doing steady state cardio is to be at a pace where you can hold a conversation while exercising.” Opinions?
IN MY EXPERIENCE THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO BURN FAT WITHOUT COMPROMOSING MUSCLE MASS, GYM PERFOMANCE, OR RECOVERY. HOWEVER I WOULDN'T JOG AS IT IS TOO STRENUOUS COMPARED TO WALKING BRISKLY ON THE TREADMILL AT A GENTLE INCLINE. GO FOR 30 MINS MINIMUM TO BURN FAT.

2) I will not be working my abs at first until my gut is gone. When gut has been reduced and my stomach is relatively flat again, I will start working out the abs. Agree? or no?
THIS IS FOOLISH, ABS ARE PART OF YOUR CORE WHICH STABILISES THE TRUNK DURING SQUATS AND DEADLIFTS AND ALSO OTHER LIFTS. DOING THESE LIFTS WITHOUT A STRONG CORE IS ASKING FOR INJURY. ABS SHOULD BE TRAINED A MINIMUM OF ONCE A WEEK WITH A WEIGHTED EXERCISE AND TWICE WOULD BE BETTER, AND THEY SHOULD BE TRAINED WHETHER THEY SHOW OR NOT.

3) I need meal examples, instead of generalities like “protein, or lean red meat, or turkey, etc." What are some recipes? Examples of snacks? What to buy when at the deli getting lunch? I live and work in NYC so I can find any type of food I want either at my office cafeteria or anywhere around my office.
I don’t want to be eating the same thing everyday…… am looking for several examples of meals.
THIS IS WHERE YOU NEED TO DO THE WORK. HOW CAN ANYONE POSSIBLY GIVE YOU A MEAL PLAN WITHOUT KNOWING YOUR FOOD PREFERENCES, ALLERGIES, BUDGET ETC? I'D LOVE TO EAT SIRLOIN AND RIBEYE ALL DAY BUT IT'D BANKRUPT ME. I'D EAT TUNA TO BE CHEAP BUT I HATE THE SIGHT AND SMELL OF IT. YOU NEED TO WORK OUT A DIET -YOU- CAN AFFORD AND MORE IMPORTANT, STAND EATING INDEFINITELY. THE ONLY DIET THAT WORKS IS ONE YOU CAN STICK TO WITHOUT CRAVING CERTAIN FOODS ALL THE TIME AND FALLING OFF THE WAGON MORE OFTEN THAN NOT.

GET AS CLOSE TO 2G PROTEIN PER LB PER DAY AS POSSIBLE. SO IF YOU'RE 150LBS GET IN 250-300G PROTEIN EACH AND EVERY DAY. OVER SIX MEALS THIS WOULD BE 50G PROTEIN PER MEAL. THEN ADD CARBS OR FATS ACCORDINGLY TO YOUR CALORIE NEEDS. CARBS SHOULD BE COMPLEX AND FATS SHOULD BE EQUALLY SPLIT BETWEEN SATURATED, POLYUNSATURATED AND MONOUNSATURATED.

HAVE EQUALLY SIZED AND SPACED OUT MEALS WITH CALORIES POSSIBLY TAPERING OFF TOWARDS BEDTIME. CUT OUT CARBS FOR THE LAST TWO MEALS OF THE DAY, POSSIBLY THE LAST THREE. THE LAST MEAL OF THE DAY SHOULD BE PROTEIN ONLY WITH A SMALL AMOUNT OF FAT (~10-15G)

EAT PROTEIN+CARBS OR PROTEIN+FAT AS DETAILED BELOW

Daily Schedule/Routine/Meals

5:30AM - Pre-Workout Meal or go workout on an empty stomach?
IF IT'S CARDIO HAVE A SMALL PROTEIN SHAKE (~1 scoop) PREWORKOUT
OTHERWISE HAVE A PRO/CARB DRINK OR MEAL (NEVER WORK OUT WITH WEIGHTS ON EMPTY)
6-7:00AM: Workout: Lifting followed by cardio. Somedays may be just cardio until gut is gone.
KEEP POST-WORKOUT CARDIO TO 15-20 MINS ONLY SO AS NOT TO COMPROMISE RECOVERY. HAVE A PROTEIN/CARB DRINK IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE WORKOUT. MAKE HALF THESE CARBS COMPLEX (EG OATS)
8:00AM: Breakfast (post work out meal?) This should contain a lot of protein.
THIS SHOULD BE 1.5-2HRS AFTER YOUR POST-WORKOUT DRINK AND INCLUDE PROTEIN AND COMPLEX CARBS
12PM: Lunch? Protein filled? PROTEIN PLUS CARBS HERE
3PM: Mid Afternoon Snack? PROTEIN PLUS FATS HERE
7PM: Dinner? This should be a no carb dinner? PROTEIN PLUS FATS HERE DEFINITELY NO CARBS. YOU'RE GOING TOO LONG WITHOUT EATING (4 HOURS), TRY TO MAKE DINNER EARLIER.

UNLESS YOU SLEEP AT 7PM ADD A LAST MEAL OF PROTEIN PLUS A SMALL AMOUNT OF FAT BEFORE YOU GO TO BED

ALL MEALS - EXCEPT THE PRE AND POST WORKOUT MEALS - SHOULD HAVE FIBROUS VEGETABLES (BROCCOLI, SPINACH, ASPARAGUS, CAULIFLOWER, WHATEVER YOU LIKE) IN THEM TO AID FAT LOSS ESPECIALLY THE PRO/FAT MEALS (TO SATIATE YOU)

Snacks: What snacks to have around the apartment?

VEGETABLES ARE THE OBVIOUS CHOICE BUT ALSO NUTS, PEANUT BUTTER (NO SUGAR) AND CERTAIN FRUITS (BERRIES, APPLES, GRAPEFRUIT) - NO FRUIT IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE DAY

TAKE IN 2 GALLONS OF WATER PER DAY OR AS CLOSE TO IT AS POSSIBLE

TAKE IN 6-10 BAGS OF GREEN OR WHITE TEA OR THE EQUIVALENT IN EXTRACT PILLS

TAKE IN 10-15G FISH OIL PER DAY (COULD BE WITH YOUR LAST MEAL AS A FAT SOURCE OR SPREAD OVER THE DAY). FLAX AND OLIVE OIL ARE ALSO GOOD FAT CHOICES FOR LEANING OUT.

TAKE A GOOD MULTIVITAMIN/MINERAL

TRY TO GET EIGHT HOURS SLEEP OR MORE

Thanks everyone.

 

[Throttle]

1) Cardio: I need more clarification on low-intensity cardio and fat burning. Is it safe to say that a slow jog for 20-30 min at a few MPH is sufficient for fat burning? WA mentioned that “best way to burn most fat doing steady state cardio is to be at a pace where you can hold a conversation while exercising.” Opinions?

Regularity is more important than the specific workout. I find that moderate intervals (4 minutes flat out, 4 minutes a bit relaxed, and so forth for 20-30 minutes) have helped me lose fat better than anything else. Try some things and see what works for you. Every day you miss, though, pushes your goals out further. So you want to find something (or some combination) that you truly enjoy & can sustain.

2) I will not be working my abs at first until my gut is gone. When gut has been reduced and my stomach is relatively flat again, I will start working out the abs. Agree? or no?

I'm with WBA on this -- you'll probably be waiting a long time. Instead, go ahead and do weighted situps or something similar. You need your core for major compound lifts (bench, squat, and deadlift) and the core is the most useful of all practical strength--say, moving furniture or what have you. Don't worry about making your gut stick out more -- folks say that, but what they usually mean is that you can't flatten your stomach with crunches. You can't make it stick out very much either, truthfully.

3) I need meal examples, instead of generalities like “protein, or lean red meat, or turkey, etc." What are some recipes? Examples of snacks? What to buy when at the deli getting lunch? I live and work in NYC so I can find any type of food I want either at my office cafeteria or anywhere around my office.

Tip: cafeterias & delis are likely to be heavy on some things you don't want, especially highly refined carbs: white bread, sugar, etc. etc. Even their darker breads are rarely truly whole grain. Anytime you can bring your own food to the office will help. I realize it's not always easy--b/c it's certainly not easy for me.

All of WBA's snack suggestions are spot-on. And the water & green tea will help keep you satiated, along with fibrous veggies & whole grain products.

 

[Doggystyle]

Just start working the guns at your desk, you've got the added bonus of impressing the ladies at work too like ron burgendy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvKkNAWg718

 

[Barbillus]

Good info everyone. Thanks.

I am working on writing up an outline of my diet for your review. Hopefully others can benefit from this as well. I will post this later this week.

Couple quick questions:

1) On off-days consume 300-350g of protein per day? How should diet change on off-days?

2) So fat-burning cardio is basically power walking (briskly walking) on the treadmill at an incline for 30-40 min? This is going to be kinda strange, never thought I would be “power-walking” to burn fat. Is it ok to proceed with lifting weights after a 35min session of power walking or will this undermine recovery in some fashion?

 

[Warboss Alex]

Good info everyone. Thanks.

I am working on writing up an outline of my diet for your review. Hopefully others can benefit from this as well. I will post this later this week.

Couple quick questions:

1) On off-days consume 300-350g of protein per day? How should diet change on off-days?

YES, ALWAYS 2G PROTEIN. ON OFF DAYS YOU CAN CUT CARBS SINCE YOU WON'T BE WORKING OUT BUT IT DEPENDS ON YOUR LIFESTYLE. START BY HALVING YOUR CARB PORTIONS. THIS WILL REDUCE CALORIES BUT THIS WILL BE FINE SINCE YOU'RE NOT WORKING OUT.

2) So fat-burning cardio is basically power walking (briskly walking) on the treadmill at an incline for 30-40 min? This is going to be kinda strange, never thought I would be “power-walking” to burn fat. Is it ok to proceed with lifting weights after a 35min session of power walking or will this undermine recovery in some fashion?

WHY IS STRANGE? LOL. NO, DO NOT DO WEIGHTS AFTER CARDIO. ON YOUR WEIGHTS DAYS DO 15-20 MINS POST-WORKOUT CARDIO (EXCEPT LEG DAY)

once your diet is up we can make more specific suggestions..

 

[Barbillus]

Still working on that diet post.. will get to that later on this month..

been working out now for two solid weeks.. every day almost.. 3 days weight, 1 cardio. on lifting days i follow with 15-20 min cardio after.

on cardio days i do the burn fat thing.. but honestly when i am burning fat i dont even feel like i am working out or accomplishing anything.. i get on the bicycle or treadmill and select the burn fat option.. i dont even break a sweat... b/c my heartbeat has to be at a certain rate... how the heck am i burning fat??? i feel like i get more when i break a sweat and am tired after 20 min of hard cardio..!!!!!!! ????????

 

[BluEyes]

Originally posted by Barbillus
i get on the bicycle or treadmill and select the burn fat option.. i dont even break a sweat... b/c my heartbeat has to be at a certain rate... how the heck am i burning fat??? i feel like i get more when i break a sweat and am tired after 20 min of hard cardio..!!!!!!! ????????

The Fat Burn option is meant for seriously obese people. The pace is so slow because it puts less pressure on thier joints.

Find a pace that gets your HR to 70 - 80% that you can maintain for around 40 minutes, or however long your cardio is. Experiment abit and find that pace that puts your heartrate at ~75% for the whole time.

Personally I do a hard 15 minute run(10mph) that leaves me kissing the floor by the end. I wouldn't call it specifically a Fat Burn session, but it gets the job done. People here will argue both sides of the
Low Intensity/High Duration vs. High Intensity/Low Duration debate for fat loss. They both work, it just depends on which one works best for you.

 

[Barbillus]

Hey just wanted to give everyone who has helped me out an update.

Good:
-I have been consistently going to gym for 5-6 days per week for since beginning of December. This has resulted in me getting much more toned, and putting on more muscle mass all over. I have actually gained weight (7lbs) and am at a solid 180lbs right now.. which is the most I have ever weighed!
-usually do 2 days lifting(15-20min cardio after), followed by 1 day pure cardio(30min-1hr). Repeat.
-been going in the morning before work at least a couple times per week, otherwise i go after work


Some areas I need to keep working on.
1) My diet - While I have been eating "slightly" better, I still need to improve my diet more. I eat way too many frozen pizzas or eggs, toast, bagels with cream cheese at night. I know this is bad. I need to commit myself to learning to make healthier dinners, etc.
*on a side not I do have a nice steak about 2 days per week.
**I am good with my bkfast at work as I get hard boiled eggs/oatmeal almost every time, or I eat a protein bar/shake.

2) Gut/stomach/abs - I have seen little improvement in my gut. It still bulges. I thought doing all the cardio would help, but its not. 3 weeks ago I started doing some basic ab workouts in between sets at the gym (never ever worked my abs before).. so we shall see if my abs will improve as a result over time.

3) Fat in face... I have probably dropped about 30% of the fat I would like to in my face/neck. This is good, but I know I can do better. I will work hard on #1 to accomplish this and start some more cardio.


I will report back in a couple months... also still haven't forgotten about my diet post I promised.... will try to get that up sometime soon.

Thanks guys for your help.